Questions for Tosh

[William Plumlee]

Back to Questions for Tosh:

Tosh, you have probably already covered something regarding the following, at least to some extent. However, I'd appreciate your replies whenever you get a chance.

1) Regarding what you were asked to do on 11/21/1963 - 11/23/1963, who hired you?

2) What exactly where you asked to do?

3) Did the people that hired you, or the ones that were with you, discuss Dealy Plaza, the motorcade, and the President specifically prior to your arrival in Dallas?

4) How many of the same people did you fly out of Dallas on 11/22/1963 as you flew in? Were there any new people on board?

5) Did anyone from the group, you were associated with around those days, ever discuss what went down on 11/22/1963 after the events had taken place?

Thanks!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Antti: Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I will do my best to be brief on my answers.

(1) Background: I was attached to a MI unit as a contract pilot. I had also been a contract pilot for the CIA for a number of years before November 1963. (1956-63.) I had previously worked for a number of aviation companies, some CIA front companies, some contract companies for "specialized operations" of which some were attached to JM/Wave's CAG (Covert Action Group) forerunner of (MASOG, of S/E Asia), and other classified sections imbedded within military operations authorised by the Pentagon. Most of our operations were Top Secret and 'cut outs' were used, as well as sequenced code names assigned to operatives, to protect the operatives and the missions from exposure.

My case officers of the time were Rex Beardsly, Robert Bennette, Larry Allen, Wm Carr, and others I can't recall at the moment. Most of these operatives and case officers were associated with William 'Wild Bill" Harvey",Wild Bill" Donovan, Tracy Barnes, Robertson, and others who were previous OSS personal from WWII. I was employed By many different front companies which were (some years latter) proved to be CIA "cut-outs" and front companies of a civilian nature that were engaged in secret military contract type operations and assignments. This was during the "Cold War" with Russia. I was, or had been a pilot on arms and ammo transportation before Castro came to power and gun-running to anti-Castro operatives inside Cuba and southern Florida after 1959

I was dispatched by Robert Bennette (Be-net-tee) and another I can't recall at the moment, to Lantana Florida from Loxahatchi (?) Florida, in a D-18 Twin Beach aircraft.., We changed aircraft to a DC 3..,at Tampa Florida and picked up other personal for a secret mission into Dallas, via New Orleans. At N.O. other operatives boarded the DC-3. and others from Florida got off. My duties were the co-pilot on this operation E. Rojas, previous Cabana Airlines Captain was the Captain (pilot) for this flight. I went on Covert payrolls in the mid fifties and continued, off and on for many years. John Farentello (?) was my original recruiter for Florida. However I was first picked up at Fort Bliss, Texas AAA-RTC- D-8; US Army Military INTEL, in 1954. (RA-18389060) Captain Edward G Seiwell from Dallas Love Field, Fourth Army Reserve, was one of many case officers I was assigned to while working the Cuban Desk. (Miami/Dallas)

(2) I was asked to fly as co-pilot for a group of military and CIA operatives on a mission of which I did not know at the time what it was. I found that (what the mission was officially) when in Tampa Florida from Rojas, Sergio. and Bennette.

(note; I had heard a rumor at Lantana that information had been received from two Cubans in Miami that an assassination attempt was going to be made on the President. But I was under the impression it was to be in Austin, Texas, later it was said (Rosellie) to be at the Adolphus Hotel in Dallas

I was not "field"operational at that time, except as the pilot for the flight. It was later, on the flight, and at Garland Texas, that I became aware of the full scope of the operation, through Sergio, Rojas, and Bennette.

(3) No. I had no way of knowing what was being discussed in the back of the aircraft. It was at Red Bird, I think that I became fully aware of the scope of the operation and the routing of the Motorcade being changed to the Plaza.

(4) Rojas, Sergio, Gator, and me. Perhaps there was one other but I do not know or remember for sure. If there was another it was not Oswald, Rosellie, Nicolettie (?) or anyone of that group. There were no new people who boarded at Red Bird, that I know off.(5)

(5) Yes. Sergio and I discussed it many times and talked it through with others in Miami and West Palm Beach on the record and off ( as friends as well as professionals)

I am in process of preparing an "Officail Transcript", if you will, and will post it soon for anyone that is interested. It will be my Official Transcript, signed my me. Something no other person or media types have. Anything in previous print is subject to question and has not been authorizations or approved by me, or supports my signatures. Thanks for the questions. Forgive the "long winded". responds. Its not easy to say a simple yes or no to these type questions. I am trying my best to be brief. Thanks again Tosh

[Tim Carroll]

deleted for space

Edited November 5, 2004 by Tim Carroll

[William Plumlee]

The following is my synopsis of Tosh Plumlee's story about his involvement in the assassination in Dallas.  If I have missed any particulars, please post them so that we can have a complete, but distilled version of the story.

Tosh Plumlee was a Military/CIA covert operative pilot who "knew John Roselli rather well."  They first met in late 1960 or early 1961 at Biscayne Park, after coming to the park from "a meeting place called Sloppy Joe's."  They were introduced by Johnny Farantello.  Plumlee later says "Farentino" (as opposed to "Farantello") "was maybe Frank Sturgis or whoever."  During 1963, Tosh flew Roselli "perhaps more than 6 or 7 different occasions, to such destinations as Marathon Key, Bimini, Havana, New Orleans, Houston, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Santa Barbara.

Beginning November 21, 1963 Tosh has asserted that he was a co-pilot on a top secret flight aboard a DC-3 supported by the CIA. The pilot was Emmanuel Rojas.  Mr. Plumlee's flight left Florida on November 21, 1963, traveling from a "place called Lantana" in West Palm Beach to Tampa, where Roselli ("the Colonel") was picked up after staying at the Congress Inn.  The plane then flew to New Orleans, where two people got off and three got on.  After flying to Houston International and spending the night at the Hilton, the plane and its occupants continued on to Garland, where they had to stop "because of weather."  John Roselli and two others deplaned in Garland at approximately 6:30 a.m.  After waiting for a car to pick up the three, the plane continued on to Redbird Airport in Dallas, where everybody got off and "went their own way."

Plumlee was under the "impression" at that time that he was "flying a team into Dallas to abort the assassination and John Roselli was on board that flight as well as a couple of other Cubans and people that were connected with organized crime in New Orleans."  The CIA's information about the assassination arose from the interrogations of Cubans who had plotted to fire on Air Force One with a bazooka on November 17 in West Palm Beach.  At the briefing at Loxahatchee, it was "discussed where to go, how to abort, and what to look for."  They concluded that they "would probably be looking for a minimum of 19 or 20 people that would be in that Plaza."  The "instructions came through ... Robert Bennett and also Rex Beardsley." 

Plumlee and "Sergio," a man Plumlee describes as "a friend" but has declined to identify, were taken to a "safe house" next to the Oak Cliff Country Club on Zang Blvd., then driven to Dealey Plaza, where they attempted to spot potential assassins from their position on the South Knoll.  Plumlee's original information was that "the attempt was going to be made outside the Adolphus Hotel. And for whatever reasons, it was changed at the last minute to the Dealey Plaza."

Sergio and Plumlee were attempting to evaluate the most logical places where shooters would be located, but "everything was all messed up, timing was off, people were not in... where they were supposed to be, the limited radio contacts that we had were not working." Plumlee had the impression of "4 or 5" shots, with one being fired from behind and to his left on the South Knoll.  While leaving via the train tracks Plumlee smelled gunpowder.  Plumlee didn't see Roselli or Nicoletti in Dealey Plaza, and hasn't provided the identity of any other person present except to identify the dark complected man standing next to the man with an umbrella as looking like "Gator," who was missing a right hand finger from a bad alligator farm incident.

They "stopped in the parking lot at Ed McLemore's [sportatorium] and the driver had an extra change of clothes for both of us." They returned to the safe house, then to Redbird, where they "waited for two other people for about an hour maybe an hour and a half" and then left. Plumlee had thought that Roselli was one of the people they were waiting for, but Roselli did not return and the plane departed "pretty close to 2 o'clock."  On the plane were Plumlee, Rojas, Sergio, "a person by the name of Gator, and two other individuals that I didn't know." 

The people on the flight out of Dallas were very quiet.  Plumlee's interpretation of this is that "if these had been shooters or assassins themselves, I think they would have been very excited because they had carried it off. That's why I take issue with the fact that I ... CIA had anything to do with flying an attack team in."

Plumlee would later claim that he had known Oswald, first at Illusionary Warfare Training in Nagshead, North Carolina, then in Honolulu at a radar installation and at Oahu's Wheeler Air Force Base, then in Dallas at an Oak Cliff safe house run by Alpha 66's Hernandez, out of Miami.

The debriefing was held in West Palm Beach by Rex Beardsley, Bob Bennett and Tracy Barnes, and according to Plumlee, "transmitted to field HQ, Miami to Bill Harvey, JMWAVE HQ., November 25, 1963."  Although Harvey was replaced in January, 1963 by Desmond Fitzgerald, he continued to have involvement with JMWAVE through April and didn't leave for his new post in Rome until after a public farewell lunch in D.C. with Roselli in June, 1963.

Tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Tim: I'll try to insert in italics and bold where I think clarifications should be made, and why: I'll try to keep it brief.

The following is my synopsis of Tosh Plumlee's story about his involvement in the assassination in Dallas. If I have missed any particulars, please post them so that we can have a complete, but distilled version of the story.

Tosh Plumlee was a Military/CIA covert operative pilot who "knew John Roselli rather well." They first met in late 1960 (could have been in 1958) or early 1961 at Biscayne Park, after coming to the park from "a meeting place called Sloppy Joe's." They were introduced by Johnny Farantello. Plumlee later says "Farentino" (as opposed to "Farantello") "was maybe Frank Sturgis or whoever."( I was asked if it could have been Frank Struges.( I replied 'It could have been, (Sturges) but I did not think so') During 1963, Tosh flew Roselli "perhaps more than 6 or 7 different occasions, to such destinations as Marathon Key, Bimini, Havana, New Orleans, Houston, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Santa Barbara. ( I flew Rosellie many times before 1963. I am not sure how many or starting when but I thought it was around 1960) I had flown him to the Thunderbird Inn in Las Vegas and to Burbank CA, and Santa Barbra, Ca. around 1963.

Beginning November 21, 1963 Tosh has asserted that he was a co-pilot on a top secret flight aboard a D-18 twin Beach and a DC-3 supported by the CIA. ( The CIA acted as our support we were Military attached at the time The pilot was Emmanuel Rojas. Mr. Plumlee's flight left Florida on November 21, 1963, traveling from a "place called Lantana" in (outside West Palm Beach about five miles south) West Palm Beach to Tampa, where Roselli ("the Colonel") (Col. Rawlston) was picked up after staying at the Congress Inn. The plane then flew to New Orleans, where two people got off and three got on. After flying to Houston International and spending the night at the Hilton, the plane and its occupants continued on to Garland, (instead of Red Bird Airport in Oak Cliff because of weather) where they had to stop "because of weather."

John Roselli and two others deplaned in Garland at approximately 6:30 a.m. After waiting for a car to pick up the three, the plane continued on to Redbird Airport in Dallas, where everybody (the others) got off and "went their own way." ( after about three, maybe four hours we continued from Garland to Red Bird arrived Red Bird 9:30, 10, perhaps even 10;30, A.M.or so.., could not remember for sure)Plumlee was under the "impression" at that time that he was "flying a team into Dallas to abort the assassination ( I was under the impression from rumors and Bob Bennette in Florida that a hit on the President was going to be made in Dallas. I was not sure that this was an Abort team until in Dallas) Some of this information was from Sergio and Rosellie) John Roselli was on board that flight as well as a couple of other Cubans and people that were connected with organized crime in New Orleans."

The CIA's information about the assassination arose from the interrogations of Cubans who had plotted to fire on Air Force One with a bazooka on November 17 in West Palm Beach. At the briefing at Loxahatchee, it was "discussed where to go, how to abort, and what to look for." They concluded that they "would probably be looking for a minimum of 19 or 20 people that would be in that Plaza." The "instructions came through ... Robert Bennett and also Rex Beardsley." ( The instructions were given to the team. At that point in time I was the pilot only, and not 'quote, part of the "Abort Team" Sergio told me after the meeting what it was all about. Neither one of us took the information seriously. There had been many reports that Kennedy was going to be hit. I was told at Lantana about the two Cubans at West Palm and about 20 or so people who could be in on the assassination team going to Dallas or already in Dallas.

This was not official information to me and came in background briefing information only. Sergio ask me, at Red Bird, to go to the Plaza with him as a "spotter" and told me what we would be looking for, triangulation ambush..Plumlee and "Sergio," a man Plumlee describes as "a friend" but has declined to identify, ( I have an understanding with Sergio and his family that I would never involve them in this because of deportations, immigrations matters, and the likes. I still uphold that even after Sergio has died. His family still lives; some of them in the United States. were taken to a "safe house" next to the Oak Cliff Country Club on Zang Blvd.(near Bar Harbor Dr, not Zangs Blvd) then driven to Dealey Plaza, where they attempted to spot potential assassins from their position on the South Knoll. Plumlee's original (information was that "the attempt was going to be made outside the Adolphus Hotel. And for whatever reasons, it was changed at the last minute to the Dealey Plaza."

Sergio and Plumlee were attempting to evaluate the most logical places where shooters would be located, but "everything was all messed up, timing was off, people were not in... where they were supposed to be, the limited radio contacts that we had were not working." Plumlee had the impression of "4 or 5" shots, with one being fired from behind and to his left on the South Knoll. While leaving via the train tracks Plumlee smelled gunpowder. Plumlee didn't see Roselli or Nicoletti in Dealey Plaza, and hasn't provided the identity of any other person present except to identify the dark complected man standing next to the man with an umbrella as looking like "Gator," who was missing a right hand finger from a bad alligator farm incident.

They "stopped in the parking lot at Ed McLemore's [sportatorium] and the driver had an extra change of clothes for both of us.( Sergio changed clothes at the Sportatorium. I did not. Sergio had got mud on his pants when he fell down the backside if the west 'Triple Underpass. The driver did not have an extra set of clothes." They returned to the safe house, then to Redbird, where they "waited for two other people for about an hour maybe an hour and a half" and then left. Plumlee had thought that Roselli was one of the people they were waiting for, but Roselli did not return and the plane departed "pretty close to 2 o'clock." On the plane were Plumlee, Rojas, Sergio, "a person by the name of Gator, and two other individuals that I didn't know." ( could have been two, not sure)

The people on the flight out of Dallas were very quiet. Plumlee's interpretation of this is that "if these had been shooters or assassins themselves, I think they would have been very excited because they had carried it off. That's why I take issue with the fact that I ... CIA/ MI, had anything to do with flying an attack team in."

Plumlee would later claim that he had known Oswald, first at Illusionary Warfare Training in Nagshead, North Carolina (seen him again in) then in Honolulu at a radar installation and again at Oahu's Wheeler Air Force Base, ( again in) then in Dallas at an Oak Cliff safe house run by Alpha 66's Hernandez, out of Miami. ( the house behind where Oswald had rented a room, Beckley I think)

The debriefing was held in West Palm Beach by Rex Beardsley, Bob Bennett and Tracy Barnes, and according to Plumlee, "transmitted to field HQ, Miami to Bill Harvey, JMWAVE HQ., November 25, 1963." Although Harvey was replaced in January, 1963 by Desmond Fitzgerald, he continued to have involvement with JMWAVE through April and didn't leave for his new post in Rome until after a public farewell lunch in D.C. with Roselli in June, 1963. ( Harvey stayed in touch with JMWAVE OPS, until after December 1963, perhaps not official. I have always thought that Harvey had access to many debriefings after He had been relieved, including the Dallas Affair. And he still maintained contact with Rosellie until sometime after 1968).

[Tim Carroll]

deleted for space

Edited November 5, 2004 by Tim Carroll

[William Plumlee]

The following is my synopsis of Tosh Plumlee's story about his involvement in the assassination in Dallas.  If I have missed any particulars, please post them so that we can have a complete, but distilled version of the story.

Tosh Plumlee was a Military/CIA covert operative pilot who "knew John Roselli rather well."  They first met in late 1960 or early 1961 at Biscayne Park, after coming to the park from "a meeting place called Sloppy Joe's."  They were introduced by Johnny Farantello.  Plumlee later says "Farentino" (as opposed to "Farantello") "was maybe Frank Sturgis or whoever."  During 1963, Tosh flew Roselli "perhaps more than 6 or 7 different occasions, to such destinations as Marathon Key, Bimini, Havana, New Orleans, Houston, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Santa Barbara.

Beginning November 21, 1963 Tosh has asserted that he was a co-pilot on a top secret flight aboard a DC-3 supported by the CIA. The pilot was Emmanuel Rojas.  Mr. Plumlee's flight left Florida on November 21, 1963, traveling from a "place called Lantana" in West Palm Beach to Tampa, where Roselli ("the Colonel") was picked up after staying at the Congress Inn.  The plane then flew to New Orleans, where two people got off and three got on.  After flying to Houston International and spending the night at the Hilton, the plane and its occupants continued on to Garland, where they had to stop "because of weather."  John Roselli and two others deplaned in Garland at approximately 6:30 a.m.  After waiting for a car to pick up the three, the plane continued on to Redbird Airport in Dallas, where everybody got off and "went their own way."

Plumlee was under the "impression" at that time that he was "flying a team into Dallas to abort the assassination and John Roselli was on board that flight as well as a couple of other Cubans and people that were connected with organized crime in New Orleans."  The CIA's information about the assassination arose from the interrogations of Cubans who had plotted to fire on Air Force One with a bazooka on November 17 in West Palm Beach.  At the briefing at Loxahatchee, it was "discussed where to go, how to abort, and what to look for."  They concluded that they "would probably be looking for a minimum of 19 or 20 people that would be in that Plaza."  The "instructions came through ... Robert Bennett and also Rex Beardsley." 

Plumlee and "Sergio," a man Plumlee describes as "a friend" but has declined to identify, were taken to a "safe house" next to the Oak Cliff Country Club on Zang Blvd., then driven to Dealey Plaza, where they attempted to spot potential assassins from their position on the South Knoll.  Plumlee's original information was that "the attempt was going to be made outside the Adolphus Hotel. And for whatever reasons, it was changed at the last minute to the Dealey Plaza."

Sergio and Plumlee were attempting to evaluate the most logical places where shooters would be located, but "everything was all messed up, timing was off, people were not in... where they were supposed to be, the limited radio contacts that we had were not working." Plumlee had the impression of "4 or 5" shots, with one being fired from behind and to his left on the South Knoll.  While leaving via the train tracks Plumlee smelled gunpowder.  Plumlee didn't see Roselli or Nicoletti in Dealey Plaza, and hasn't provided the identity of any other person present except to identify the dark complected man standing next to the man with an umbrella as looking like "Gator," who was missing a right hand finger from a bad alligator farm incident.

They "stopped in the parking lot at Ed McLemore's [sportatorium] and the driver had an extra change of clothes for both of us." They returned to the safe house, then to Redbird, where they "waited for two other people for about an hour maybe an hour and a half" and then left. Plumlee had thought that Roselli was one of the people they were waiting for, but Roselli did not return and the plane departed "pretty close to 2 o'clock."  On the plane were Plumlee, Rojas, Sergio, "a person by the name of Gator, and two other individuals that I didn't know." 

The people on the flight out of Dallas were very quiet.  Plumlee's interpretation of this is that "if these had been shooters or assassins themselves, I think they would have been very excited because they had carried it off. That's why I take issue with the fact that I ... CIA had anything to do with flying an attack team in."

Plumlee would later claim that he had known Oswald, first at Illusionary Warfare Training in Nagshead, North Carolina, then in Honolulu at a radar installation and at Oahu's Wheeler Air Force Base, then in Dallas at an Oak Cliff safe house run by Alpha 66's Hernandez, out of Miami.

The debriefing was held in West Palm Beach by Rex Beardsley, Bob Bennett and Tracy Barnes, and according to Plumlee, "transmitted to field HQ, Miami to Bill Harvey, JMWAVE HQ., November 25, 1963."  Although Harvey was replaced in January, 1963 by Desmond Fitzgerald, he continued to have involvement with JMWAVE through April and didn't leave for his new post in Rome until after a public farewell lunch in D.C. with Roselli in June, 1963.

Tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Tim: I'll try to insert in italics and bold where I think clarifications should be made, and why: I'll try to keep it brief.

The following is my synopsis of Tosh Plumlee's story about his involvement in the assassination in Dallas. If I have missed any particulars, please post them so that we can have a complete, but distilled version of the story.

Tosh Plumlee was a Military/CIA covert operative pilot who "knew John Roselli rather well." They first met in late 1960 (could have been in 1958) or early 1961 at Biscayne Park, after coming to the park from "a meeting place called Sloppy Joe's." They were introduced by Johnny Farantello. Plumlee later says "Farentino" (as opposed to "Farantello") "was maybe Frank Sturgis or whoever."( I was asked if it could have been Frank Struges.( I replied 'It could have been, (Sturges) but I did not think so') During 1963, Tosh flew Roselli "perhaps more than 6 or 7 different occasions, to such destinations as Marathon Key, Bimini, Havana, New Orleans, Houston, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas and Santa Barbara. ( I flew Rosellie many times before 1963. I am not sure how many or starting when but I thought it was around 1960) I had flown him to the Thunderbird Inn in Las Vegas and to Burbank CA, and Santa Barbra, Ca. around 1963.

Beginning November 21, 1963 Tosh has asserted that he was a co-pilot on a top secret flight aboard a D-18 twin Beach and a DC-3 supported by the CIA. ( The CIA acted as our support we were Military attached at the time The pilot was Emmanuel Rojas. Mr. Plumlee's flight left Florida on November 21, 1963, traveling from a "place called Lantana" in (outside West Palm Beach about five miles south) West Palm Beach to Tampa, where Roselli ("the Colonel") (Col. Rawlston) was picked up after staying at the Congress Inn. The plane then flew to New Orleans, where two people got off and three got on. After flying to Houston International and spending the night at the Hilton, the plane and its occupants continued on to Garland, (instead of Red Bird Airport in Oak Cliff because of weather) where they had to stop "because of weather."

John Roselli and two others deplaned in Garland at approximately 6:30 a.m. After waiting for a car to pick up the three, the plane continued on to Redbird Airport in Dallas, where everybody (the others) got off and "went their own way." ( after about three, maybe four hours we continued from Garland to Red Bird arrived Red Bird 9:30, 10, perhaps even 10;30, A.M.or so.., could not remember for sure)Plumlee was under the "impression" at that time that he was "flying a team into Dallas to abort the assassination ( I was under the impression from rumors and Bob Bennette in Florida that a hit on the President was going to be made in Dallas. I was not sure that this was an Abort team until in Dallas) Some of this information was from Sergio and Rosellie) John Roselli was on board that flight as well as a couple of other Cubans and people that were connected with organized crime in New Orleans."

The CIA's information about the assassination arose from the interrogations of Cubans who had plotted to fire on Air Force One with a bazooka on November 17 in West Palm Beach. At the briefing at Loxahatchee, it was "discussed where to go, how to abort, and what to look for." They concluded that they "would probably be looking for a minimum of 19 or 20 people that would be in that Plaza." The "instructions came through ... Robert Bennett and also Rex Beardsley." ( The instructions were given to the team. At that point in time I was the pilot only, and not 'quote, part of the "Abort Team" Sergio told me after the meeting what it was all about. Neither one of us took the information seriously. There had been many reports that Kennedy was going to be hit. I was told at Lantana about the two Cubans at West Palm and about 20 or so people who could be in on the assassination team going to Dallas or already in Dallas.

This was not official information to me and came in background briefing information only. Sergio ask me, at Red Bird, to go to the Plaza with him as a "spotter" and told me what we would be looking for, triangulation ambush..Plumlee and "Sergio," a man Plumlee describes as "a friend" but has declined to identify, ( I have an understanding with Sergio and his family that I would never involve them in this because of deportations, immigrations matters, and the likes. I still uphold that even after Sergio has died. His family still lives; some of them in the United States. were taken to a "safe house" next to the Oak Cliff Country Club on Zang Blvd.(near Bar Harbor Dr, not Zangs Blvd) then driven to Dealey Plaza, where they attempted to spot potential assassins from their position on the South Knoll. Plumlee's original (information was that "the attempt was going to be made outside the Adolphus Hotel. And for whatever reasons, it was changed at the last minute to the Dealey Plaza."

Sergio and Plumlee were attempting to evaluate the most logical places where shooters would be located, but "everything was all messed up, timing was off, people were not in... where they were supposed to be, the limited radio contacts that we had were not working." Plumlee had the impression of "4 or 5" shots, with one being fired from behind and to his left on the South Knoll. While leaving via the train tracks Plumlee smelled gunpowder. Plumlee didn't see Roselli or Nicoletti in Dealey Plaza, and hasn't provided the identity of any other person present except to identify the dark complected man standing next to the man with an umbrella as looking like "Gator," who was missing a right hand finger from a bad alligator farm incident.

They "stopped in the parking lot at Ed McLemore's [sportatorium] and the driver had an extra change of clothes for both of us.( Sergio changed clothes at the Sportatorium. I did not. Sergio had got mud on his pants when he fell down the backside if the west 'Triple Underpass. The driver did not have an extra set of clothes." They returned to the safe house, then to Redbird, where they "waited for two other people for about an hour maybe an hour and a half" and then left. Plumlee had thought that Roselli was one of the people they were waiting for, but Roselli did not return and the plane departed "pretty close to 2 o'clock." On the plane were Plumlee, Rojas, Sergio, "a person by the name of Gator, and two other individuals that I didn't know." ( could have been two, not sure)

The people on the flight out of Dallas were very quiet. Plumlee's interpretation of this is that "if these had been shooters or assassins themselves, I think they would have been very excited because they had carried it off. That's why I take issue with the fact that I ... CIA/ MI, had anything to do with flying an attack team in."

Plumlee would later claim that he had known Oswald, first at Illusionary Warfare Training in Nagshead, North Carolina (seen him again in) then in Honolulu at a radar installation and again at Oahu's Wheeler Air Force Base, ( again in) then in Dallas at an Oak Cliff safe house run by Alpha 66's Hernandez, out of Miami. ( the house behind where Oswald had rented a room, Beckley I think)

The debriefing was held in West Palm Beach by Rex Beardsley, Bob Bennett and Tracy Barnes, and according to Plumlee, "transmitted to field HQ, Miami to Bill Harvey, JMWAVE HQ., November 25, 1963." Although Harvey was replaced in January, 1963 by Desmond Fitzgerald, he continued to have involvement with JMWAVE through April and didn't leave for his new post in Rome until after a public farewell lunch in D.C. with Roselli in June, 1963. ( Harvey stayed in touch with JMWAVE OPS, until after December 1963, perhaps not official. I have always thought that Harvey had access to many debriefings after He had been relieved, including the Dallas Affair. And he still maintained contact with Rosellie until sometime after 1968).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim I might add;

Rosellie got off at GARLAND and was picked up and went to (I was told later) Love Field. Nicolettee was not on my flight and I did not see him at Red Bird. I heard that Nicolettee was in Dallas. However, I never saw him. Rosellie did not get off at Red Bird, as some have said that I said.. I have tried many times over the years to clear this matter. I never said Rosellie or Nicolettle got off at Red Bird. I have been led to say that, but I did not.. Its not open for debate. Rosellie got off at Garland. Nicolettle was NOT on my flight. I have never supported or indorsed other stories about people claiming to have been in Dallas, shooters and CIA people, or otherwise.

Keep this in mind. The last time you flew on a short hop to another city. Who was on board that flight and where did they get off? Why did they get off and where did they go? You should know those things. You should have made notes and asked a lot of questions.... and get shot... Tosh Plumlee

[William Plumlee]

Thanks Tim:  I'll try to insert in italics and bold where I think clarifications should be made, and why:  I'll try to keep it brief.

Thanks Tosh, I'll update my synopsis accordingly.

Tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Tim. I appreciate your time on this. Tosh

[Antti Hynonen]

William Plumlee  Today, 01:32 AM Post #16 

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QUOTE(Antti Hynonen @ Oct 26 2004, 09:54 AM)

Back to Questions for Tosh:

Tosh, you have probably already covered something regarding the following, at least to some extent. However, I'd appreciate your replies whenever you get a chance.

1) Regarding what you were asked to do on 11/21/1963 - 11/23/1963, who hired you?

2) What exactly where you asked to do?

3) Did the people that hired you, or the ones that were with you, discuss Dealy Plaza, the motorcade, and the President specifically prior to your arrival in Dallas?

4) How many of the same people did you fly out of Dallas on 11/22/1963 as you flew in? Were there any new people on board?

5) Did anyone from the group, you were associated with around those days, ever discuss what went down on 11/22/1963 after the events had taken place?

Thanks!

Antti: Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I will do my best to be brief on my answers.

(1) Background: I was attached to a MI unit as a contract pilot. I had also been a contract pilot for the CIA for a number of years before November 1963. (1956-63.) I had previously worked for a number of aviation companies, some CIA front companies, some contract companies for "specialized operations" of which some were attached to JM/Wave's CAG (Covert Action Group) forerunner of (MASOG, of S/E Asia), and other classified sections imbedded within military operations authorised by the Pentagon. Most of our operations were Top Secret and 'cut outs' were used, as well as sequenced code names assigned to operatives, to protect the operatives and the missions from exposure.

My case officers of the time were Rex Beardsly, Robert Bennette, Larry Allen, Wm Carr, and others I can't recall at the moment. Most of these operatives and case officers were associated with William 'Wild Bill" Harvey",Wild Bill" Donovan, Tracy Barnes, Robertson, and others who were previous OSS personal from WWII. I was employed By many different front companies which were (some years latter) proved to be CIA "cut-outs" and front companies of a civilian nature that were engaged in secret military contract type operations and assignments. This was during the "Cold War" with Russia. I was, or had been a pilot on arms and ammo transportation before Castro came to power and gun-running to anti-Castro operatives inside Cuba and southern Florida after 1959

I was dispatched by Robert Bennette (Be-net-tee) and another I can't recall at the moment, to Lantana Florida from Loxahatchi (?) Florida, in a D-18 Twin Beach aircraft.., We changed aircraft to a DC 3..,at Tampa Florida and picked up other personal for a secret mission into Dallas, via New Orleans. At N.O. other operatives boarded the DC-3. and others from Florida got off. My duties were the co-pilot on this operation E. Rojas, previous Cabana Airlines Captain was the Captain (pilot) for this flight. I went on Covert payrolls in the mid fifties and continued, off and on for many years. John Farentello (?) was my original recruiter for Florida. However I was first picked up at Fort Bliss, Texas AAA-RTC- D-8; US Army Military INTEL, in 1954. (RA-18389060) Captain Edward G Seiwell from Dallas Love Field, Fourth Army Reserve, was one of many case officers I was assigned to while working the Cuban Desk. (Miami/Dallas)

(2) I was asked to fly as co-pilot for a group of military and CIA operatives on a mission of which I did not know at the time what it was. I found that (what the mission was officially) when in Tampa Florida from Rojas, Sergio. and Bennette.

(note; I had heard a rumor at Lantana that information had been received from two Cubans in Miami that an assassination attempt was going to be made on the President. But I was under the impression it was to be in Austin, Texas, later it was said (Rosellie) to be at the Adolphus Hotel in Dallas

I was not "field"operational at that time, except as the pilot for the flight. It was later, on the flight, and at Garland Texas, that I became aware of the full scope of the operation, through Sergio, Rojas, and Bennette.

(3) No. I had no way of knowing what was being discussed in the back of the aircraft. It was at Red Bird, I think that I became fully aware of the scope of the operation and the routing of the Motorcade being changed to the Plaza.

(4) Rojas, Sergio, Gator, and me. Perhaps there was one other but I do not know or remember for sure. If there was another it was not Oswald, Rosellie, Nicolettie (?) or anyone of that group. There were no new people who boarded at Red Bird, that I know off.(5)

(5) Yes. Sergio and I discussed it many times and talked it through with others in Miami and West Palm Beach on the record and off ( as friends as well as professionals)

I am in process of preparing an "Officail Transcript", if you will, and will post it soon for anyone that is interested. It will be my Official Transcript, signed my me. Something no other person or media types have. Anything in previous print is subject to question and has not been authorizations or approved by me, or supports my signatures. Thanks for the questions. Forgive the "long winded". responds. Its not easy to say a simple yes or no to these type questions. I am trying my best to be brief. Thanks again Tosh

Thank you very much Tosh! You've done a great job. I find your statements and discussion credible. You knowledge of the events is a great asset to the forum members.

Actually Tim's or your synopsis later on this thread answered my follow up question => Why did you decide to go to the Plaza, if you were "just a copilot"?

Answer: Sergio asked you to come along as a spotter.