JFK and the Ku Klux Klan

[Lindsay Anderson]

Ok then. Why not then reflect that in the title of the thread. I dunno. Some people might get a bit confused and think the idea is nutty because a lot of nuttiness is taking up pages or references to nuttiness that kinda make some people, not the august presences like the people on this forum, but more feeble minded individuals who associate their persona or ego if you will with beliefs and tend to have a need to conform to whatever is perceived as being not nutty in order to not feel nutty. On behalf of these troubled indiviuals I wonder whether the title of this topic could include a statement about the first post and the why of it?

Thank you.

Hi John

I think you may be making an interesting point but I don't fully understand your post (there are a lot of nuttys!) or which post you are replying to. Can you give an example of the type of statement you are referring to (that could be included with the title of the thread).

[Paul Trejo]

I lived in the house at about 18187 Midway Road on google maps and there was a rally right across the road from our house. That's where Albert Lee Lewis lived. I don't know if his house is still there. But across the road at that time, there was a field surrounded by woods. That where the rally took place. Actually there were regular rallies at that location in the fifties. there was a lynching there one night in about 1958 or 9.

I can't remember the exact date of the Banister rally. It was sometime in July or August. I don't think there would have been anything written up about it in the Clarion Ledger, though. The Klan was secretive about their affairs.

There was at least one rally in Byram that summer too. There may have been more, but as I have stated over and over again that I was not a Klansman, so what I know came from eye witness accounts, like the rally across the road, lynchings that I witnessed, and from the kids at school.

...Terry had the green pick up truck by the time I first came back, in July. I had lived for a month with my natural father before going back to Terry, so it had to have been in August. There may have been more, I don't know. The Klan were excited all that fall, so I am not sure if that means Banister was still coming to town. To be clear, the rally I witnessed must have been sometime in the first three weeks of August 63. I doubt there would have been a write up about it. that usually didn't happen.

Byram is five miles or so north of Terry. There were rallies there too, don't know when...I spoke a couple of years ago with Jerry Mitchell...he said he had heard of the rallies with Banister in Byram in 63. Hope you can get somewhere with him...

Thanks, Terri, every little bit helps when poring through old newspaper microfiche.

Let's see if I have this correct now -- your house is located in Terry, Mississippi -- not Byram. There were KKK rallies close to your house. You mentioned the 1950's -- and that makes sense because KKK activity greatly increased in Mississippi when the Supreme Court ruled on 17 May 1954 that US public schools must be racially integrated. (Mississippi successfully evaded that law 100% for eight years.) The KKK rally took place in a nearby field surrounded by woods.

I appreciate your extra effort to narrow the date down to the first three weeks in August, 1963. That's a big help for me. This, however, would have been the rally in Terry that you recall -- and not the rally in Byram.

Also, there were more rallies in previous months in both towns, if I understand you correctly. Also, Guy Banister possibly visited both towns. Also, Guy Banister donated the green truck to the marshal of Terry, MS at an earlier time in 1963. That's how I understand this today.

Now -- what makes me hesitate is that you don't believe that "there would have been anything written up about it in the Clarion Ledger." You would know far better than I about your own home town.

I recognize that the KKK was secretive about their affairs, but I was hopeful because the Clarion Ledger still had a reputation for being racially insensitive in the early 1960s. Some people in Mississippi apparently called the Clarion Ledger the Klan Ledgah, with that charming Southern accent.

Yet maybe the Clarion Ledger will not be the most fruitful place for me to dig. Perhaps this is why you dropped the name of Mr. Mitchell. It seems reasonable that I should find a trustworthy, local source who'd be willing to talk about Mississippi history 50 years ago, as long as I don't sound like the FBI.

Just to be clear -- a story about Banister's green truck would be a dramatic find, but not really necessary for my purposes. I only want to confirm one and only one allegation -- that Guy Banister (the man whom Jim Garrison linked closely with Lee Harvey Oswald) attended KKK rallies in Terry and Byram Mississippi in the middle part of 1963. That would be a historical find, IMHO.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited April 10, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Terri Williams]

Let's see if I have this correct now -- your house is located in Terry, Mississippi -- not Byram. There were KKK rallies close to your house. You mentioned the 1950's -- and that makes sense because KKK activity greatly increased in Mississippi when the Supreme Court ruled on 17 May 1954 that US public schools must be racially integrated. (Mississippi successfully evaded that law 100% for eight years.) The KKK rally took place in a nearby field surrounded by woods.

Our House is on the West side of the road. The field was directly east.

That's correct. the woods were directly across from our house. the rally in Terry took place sometime in the first three weeks of August. There were rallies in Byram that year too, possibly at the same time, a few days later or something. I can't imagine Bansiter not knowing Doc. He must have, since the rally was on Lewis' place and Lewis was a close friend of Doc's. It would seem strange if Bansiter did not know Doc.

I am not sure when the first school was successfully integrated in Mississippi, but Terry School was not integrated until August of 1968 or 9. I am pretty sure it was 1969, though.

I appreciate your extra effort to narrow the date down to the first three weeks in August, 1963. That's a big help for me. This, however, would have been the rally in Terry that you recall -- and not the rally in Byram.

That's correct. the rally in Terry with banister as a guest speaker was sometime in the first few weeks of August 63.

Also, there were more rallies in previous months in both towns, if I understand you correctly. Also, Guy Banister possibly visited both towns. Also, Guy Banister donated the green truck to the marshal of Terry, MS at an earlier time in 1963. That's how I understand this today.

Yes, Banister visited both towns, possibly more. I don't know when Terry got the green truck, but it must have been in 63, could have been 62, but I have a feeling it was 63 because the truck was a 63 Ford.

Now -- what makes me hesitate is that you don't believe that "there would have been anything written up about it in the Clarion Ledger." You would know far better than I about your own home town.

I recognize that the KKK was secretive about their affairs, but I was hopeful because the Clarion Ledger still had a reputation for being racially insensitive in the early 1960s. Some people in Mississippi apparently called the Clarion Ledger the Klan Ledgah, with that charming Southern accent.

Yet maybe the Clarion Ledger will not be the most fruitful place for me to dig. Perhaps this is why you dropped the name of Mr. Mitchell. It seems reasonable that I should find a trustworthy, local source who'd be willing to talk about Mississippi history 50 years ago, as long as I don't sound like the FBI.

In all honesty, I did not read the paper back then, so I don't know. It might have been. You are right, it was a racist paper.

Just to be clear -- a story about Banister's green truck would be a dramatic find, but not really necessary for my purposes. I only want to confirm one and only one allegation -- that Guy Banister (the man whom Jim Garrison linked closely with Lee Harvey Oswald) attended KKK rallies in Terry and Byram Mississippi in the middle part of 1963. That would be a historical find, IMHO.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

It is still such a touchy subject. i have put the word out to try to find a couple of people I feel might be able to tell me more. They were there at Terry School on November 22, 1963 and they were also not pleased with events. They were a few years older than me, politically active and might have been tuned into things better than I was. I simply tried to ignore the Klan, best I could. The two people had more connections than I did and were more politically savvy than I.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Terri Williams

[John Dolva]

Sorry Lindsay, I got a bit distracted.

It was just an answer to an undercurrect topic.

I don't know. Maybe a sub topic of a discussion of an acoount by T. Willimas - moved from topic to here and I'll just play along as I have. It's not really very different from othwer documented accounts. Maybe I can focus on them a bit more but I have elsewhere and perhaps I'd be better served by chasin some of them down.

Look, wht I'm basically trying ot do is accommodate an objective look at known things whcih I think in themselves are sufficient to take stuff further. I have done so. It's really only about three steps, a hop skip and jump along some avenues from the ground to the top. Each of these are tainted by some dogma that justifies a common goal.

[Michael Hogan]

As for the fly-away condition of this thread, I fault those among your detractors who, unwilling to focus on the material evidence of possible KKK involvement in the JFK assassination, change the topic to your other claims on your blog -- knowing that it will muddy the waters here. You're doing a decent job at keeping things orderly -- but it's like herding cats.

There is not even a speck of material evidence presented by anyone on this thread indicating possible 1963 KKK involvement in the JFK assassination by anyone from Terry, Mississippi.

People that have passionately studied the murder of President Kennedy for a good portion of their lives should not be expected to take kindly to attempts to hoax them.

[John Dolva]

Sometimes through this an awareness of things not written about have come about as a consequence.

[Terri Williams]

As for the fly-away condition of this thread, I fault those among your detractors who, unwilling to focus on the material evidence of possible KKK involvement in the JFK assassination, change the topic to your other claims on your blog -- knowing that it will muddy the waters here. You're doing a decent job at keeping things orderly -- but it's like herding cats.

There is not even a speck of material evidence presented by anyone on this thread indicating possible 1963 KKK involvement in the JFK assassination by anyone from Terry, Mississippi.

People that have passionately studied the murder of President Kennedy for a good portion of their lives should not be expected to take kindly to attempts to hoax them.

You are quite capable of hoaxing yourself. I'll not take back what I have said, even if I have no PROOF..... yet.

(police and FBI are SO useless in this case or we wouldn't be still discussing it)

[Paul Trejo]

There is not even a speck of material evidence presented by anyone on this thread indicating possible 1963 KKK involvement in the JFK assassination by anyone from Terry, Mississippi.

People that have passionately studied the murder of President Kennedy for a good portion of their lives should not be expected to take kindly to attempts to hoax them.

Michael, it's been 50 years and all the people passionately studying the murder of JFK in all that time have arrived at no consensus. There are dozens of contradictory theories out there. Y'all haven't cracked the case. Why not admit it? Why not admit that it's time to try new avenues?

The evidence should have steered JFK researchers to investigate ex-General Edwin Walker far more fully. But they didn't. It's been 50 years, and Walker died 20 years ago. Yet only now are historians beginning to stumble over what all these "people passionately studying the murder of President Kennedy for a good portion of their lives" have all overlooked.

The main political connections of ex-General Walker were race segregation advocates. It is not a hoax to notice that. It is not a hoax to notice the common thread between Walker and Guy Banister, who was also a fanatic about race segregation.

It is not a hoax to recognize that JFK was dead less than six months after his Civil Rights speech, after which violent acts against Civil Rights advocates sharply escalated. Why haven't the JFK researchers cracked the case after half a century? Could it be because they can't handle the truth?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited April 12, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[John Dolva]

"While your Kings and Queens

Fought for ten decades

For the Gods they made

I shouted out,

Who killed the Kennedys?

When after all

It was you and me"

[Terri Williams]

I like that Klan Ledgah. I can hear my grandmother saying that now. And that's about the way she pronounced it. Klan Ledgah

[Paul Trejo]

I like that Klan Ledgah. I can hear my grandmother saying that now. And that's about the way she pronounced it. Klan Ledgah

Terri, here is one page from a seven-page article that appeared in the 1 September 1968 issue of National Enquirer.

The author is Loran Hall, whom Harry Dean saw along with ex-General Edwin Walker in Southern California in the late summer of 1963, plotting to make Lee Harvey Oswald the patsy of their plot.

Loran Hall was deeply involved in Cuban politics -- he knew Gerry Patrick Hemming, and both men served Castro in 1959 and then turned against Castro in 1960, leading raids on Cuba, and collecting donations and supplies from right-wing militants throughout the Southern USA.

Right before this interview, Loran Hall was the victim of an attempted murder -- somebody tried to run his car off a California cliff, and then sped away. To save his life, Loran Hall made a deal with Jim Garrison in 1968, and told him everything he knew.

Loran Hall provided a summary of those interviews to the National Enquirer, too, so that the public could see that Loran Hall had nothing more to hide.

What is most interesting is that Loran Hall tells the interviewer that the KKK was involved in the JFK assassination. There are more facts that Loran Hall stated that agree with your understanding of the JFK assassination, too, Terri. Let me quote one page from that seven-page article:

---------------------- Begin Extract from 1 September 1968 National Enquirer ----------------------

KEY WITNESS IN GARRISON PROBE SAYS: I WAS OFFERED $50,000 TO KILL JFK by Loran Hall

I turned down a $50,000 offer to kill President John F. Kennedy only five weeks before he was shot dead in Dallas, Texas.

It came from right wing radicals who also had Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King on their kill list -- a list which members of the CIA helped form.

I have given New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison, who is probing President Kennedy's assassination, a full list of names, dates and places which I firmly believe will help him prove there was a plot to kill President Kennedy.

I have told him that at meeting after meeting which I attended before President Kennedy's assassination, the killing of President Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King was openly discussed. And these people were deadly serious.

They were lunatic, fanatical right wingers -- Klansmen and Fascists -- who had the means, the men, and their own twisted reasons for wanting to kill our leaders.

I know from my own experience as an Anti-Castro guerilla leader that among them were CIA men -- for the CIA was deeply involved in our Anti-Castro activities.

I have told Garrison that there was a plot to kill President Kennedy. But I believe that the biggest plot of them all was the plot the U.S. Government set to cover up the assassination.

The Government knows Lee Harvey Oswald was not the lone assassin.

He was the patsy, the guy who gave his life so that members of a sniper team could escape. I doubt if he even fired a shot. The Government's cover up enabled the radical right wingers to continue killing -- with Martin Luther King's death certainly the result, and Bobby Kennedy's very probably.

Two attempts have been made on my life because I know too much about the activities of these right wingers.

I hope that by telling all I know to Garrison and The ENQUIRER, these militants will figure there is no longer any point in trying to silence me...

---------------------- End Extract from 1 September 1968 National Enquirer ----------------------

Now, Loran Hall was not the brightest bulb on the tree. He often showed his confusion about who was a CIA agent and who was only a paid informer or bagman for a legitimate CIA agent. So when Hall suggested that the CIA was involved, this might possibly mean that some bagmen for the CIA who liked to brag about their CIA connections and called themselves 'members' of the CIA might have been involved.

Also, Loran Hall hoped that the Garrison probe would put an end to all the speculation, but actually, Jim Garrison failed to investigate the Dallas Connection thoroughly, and completely neglected the KKK connection -- and put all his eggs in the CIA basket -- and lost his case very soundly.

Yet Loran Hall was candid enough to say that the JFK plotters "were lunatic, fanatical right wingers -- Klansmen and Fascists."

Also, Loran Hall was candid enough to say that the JFK plotters: "also had Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King on their kill list." After reading that, Terri, I couldn't help thinking about your experience in high-school, when at least one of your classmates said, "They're not stopping until there's a K-K-K," meaning, JFK-MLK-RFK.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited April 22, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Terri Williams]

Wow, good work, Paul. When I read about the "bagmen" for the CIA, I can't help but think of my uncle. He would have bragged, surreptitiously. It makes sense that the CIA were involved.

It truly was a sad day when they actually got away with it. They got away with all three murders. The Klan were used to getting away with murder.

I can believe the CIA helped to cover up the truth about the assassinations.

I haven't gotten anywhere with the truck. No one wants to talk about it. I think those still in the south, who know, are still scared. Which is a good indicator that the Klan still thrives in Hinds County, the heart of White Knight territory.

[Paul Trejo]

Wow, good work, Paul. When I read about the "bagmen" for the CIA, I can't help but think of my uncle. He would have bragged, surreptitiously. It makes sense that the CIA were involved.

It truly was a sad day when they actually got away with it. They got away with all three murders. The Klan were used to getting away with murder.

I can believe the CIA helped to cover up the truth about the assassinations.

I haven't gotten anywhere with the truck. No one wants to talk about it. I think those still in the south, who know, are still scared. Which is a good indicator that the Klan still thrives in Hinds County, the heart of White Knight territory.

Terri, although perhaps most JFK readers believe the CIA was involved -- I am among the minority who demand to see hard proof before I come to a conclusion.

John McClone, Director of the CIA in 1963, was appointed by JFK, and it still seems unlikely to me that he would order JFK killed. So, like the HSCA hinted, even if some low-level CIA piece-workers were involved, that is different from official CIA involvement.

We do know, however, that low-level CIA piece-workers like to brag about working for the CIA. Loran Hall and his sons, for example, were busted in 1989 for running a meth lab. The story the sons gave the police was that they were working for the CIA, making money for the Contras. Loran Hall laid out that defense often, I've heard.

Another example is Johnny Roselli and his Mafia boys -- because William Harvey was dumb enough to hire them to help him kill Fidel Castro, they continually named the CIA as an excuse everytime they were busted for some crime or other. The CIA finally gave up on them, but it took a long time.

Also, Terri, in my opinion, the JFK killers didn't actually get away it it -- well, not 100%. What they wanted to accomplish first and foremost, was to fool the USA into invading Cuba, and taking Cuba back from the Communists by sheer force. That failed. Their second cherised goal was to Impeach Earl Warren and then immeidately reverse the Brown decision (of public school integration).

They lost both of their top two goals. Also, they had to show the world their yellow side -- they cut and ran and didn't have the manly courage to stand up before the world and claim credit for the JFK killing -- like every normal assassin has always done in US History. Instead, they slunk back into the shadows like the hidden cowards they truly were.

The same happened with the MLK and RFK murders. Actually, the same happened in 1963 -- twice. First, when Byron De La Beckwith murdered Medgar Evers by shooting him in the back at midnight. He got away with it in 1964, even after a re-trial. Second, the Alabama 16th Street Church bombing the following September that killed four Black girls saw zero indictments at all throughout the 1960's.

I do agree with you, Terri, that the CIA helped to cover up the truth about the JFK assassination -- because the evidence is overwhelming. However, that does not necessarily mean that the CIA was hiding its friends.

To put the most optimistic spin on it, I continue to maintain that the CIA, the FBI, the Warren Commission and the White House all covered up the JFK assassination -- knowing full well who did it -- in order to prevent another Civil War (and then World War Three which would have followed).

This theory also supports some of your claims, Terri, i.e. when you claim that KKK power in the 1960's (just as today) was far greater than anyone likes to admit. I would have to agree.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited April 22, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Michael Hogan]

Terri, although perhaps most JFK readers believe the CIA was involved -- I am among the minority who demand to see hard proof before I come to a conclusion.

John McClone, Director of the CIA in 1963, was appointed by JFK, and it still seems unlikely to me that he would order JFK killed. So, like the HSCA hinted, even if some low-level CIA piece-workers were involved, that is different from official CIA involvement.

Paul, your conclusions have been based in large part on the story of Harry Dean and very selected statements from the likes of George de Mohrenschildt,

Gerry Hemming, Marina Oswald, Ron Lewis, Loran Hall, Larry Howard etc. Is that what you mean by hard proof?

Where is the hard proof to back your claims about Walker and Banister's roles in framing Oswald?

How many JFK readers, whatever that term means, claim that John McCone ordered President Kennedy's murder? Can you name a few?

Do you consider suspects like Angleton, Dulles, Helms and Phillips to be "some low-level CIA piece-workers?"

Do you think the Ku Klux Klan had "official involvement" in the murder of President Kennedy?

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, your conclusions have been based in large part on the story of Harry Dean and very selected statements from the likes of George de Mohrenschildt, Gerry Hemming, Marina Oswald, Ron Lewis, Loran Hall, Larry Howard etc. Is that what you mean by hard proof?

Where is the hard proof to back your claims about Walker and Banister's roles in framing Oswald?

How many JFK readers, whatever that term means, claim that John McCone ordered President Kennedy's murder? Can you name a few?

Do you consider suspects like Angleton, Dulles, Helms and Phillips to be "some low-level CIA piece-workers?"

Do you think the Ku Klux Klan had "official involvement" in the murder of President Kennedy?

Michael, you ask what I mean by hard proof. It comes from valid material evidence, traditionally defined as empirical evidence and sworn testimony.

Just because you prefer to ignore the sworn testimony of George de Mohrenschildt, Marina Oswald and Loran Hall, does not make their testimony any less valid. It is part of the body of truth upon which honest researchers will build -- unless you happen to have proof that it is incorrect -- which you don't; otherwise you'd produce that proof, which you don't.

The Warren Commission preferred to evade questioning of some witnesses -- many of whom heard one or more shots from the grassy knoll at Dealey Plaza -- and so just because Harry Dean and Gerry Patrick Hemming were not called upon to offer their sworn testimony to the WC, that does not mean that their eye-witness accounts are off the table. When those accounts match the accounts of the sworn testimony we possess, then they can be proposed as confirmative evidence.

So, that answers your question, Michael, regarding what I mean by hard proof.

The question is aptly returned to you, Michael -- what do you mean by hard proof? Because so far I've seen from you and your kind only guesswork amassed over decades that the CIA did it. Guesswork based on hunches. Also, the word "theory" does not seem to occur to you as your group plies its hunches.

As for hard proof about Guy Banister's role in framing Oswald, we have Jim Garrison's enormous body of work. The address of 544 Camp Street physically stamped on Oswald's fake FPCC handbills is hard evidence. Jim Garrison was a genius.

As for hard proof about ex-General Walker's role, I am among the first to explore this possibility. Jim Root did some great work in the past on this -- perhaps more than anybody else -- although his book is still unpublished, to the best of my knowledge. Only on this Forum can we find items from Jim Root's long research.

Yet I don't operate only on hunches. I search for material connections. Along with John Dolva I've found connections between Guy Banister and ex-General Edwin Walker in organizations and individuals they knew in common, including members of the Louisiana State Sovereignty Commission, the Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission, various White Citizens' Council groups in the South, Leander Perez, Louis Pennington Davis, Jr. and mote.

This evidence is confirmed by eye-witness accounts from Gerry Patrick Hemming, who claims to have seen ex-General Walker at the Lake Pontchartrain paramilitary training camp run by Guy Banister, and claims to have visited Walker's Dallas home multiple times in 1963, accompanied by Loran Hall and other members of Interpen.

As for the ridiculous implication that John McCone ordered JFK's murder, it is tacit in any bogus claim that "the CIA did it." When that common blanket statement is heard, it immediately implicates the 1963 CIA Director John McCone -- and that is quite obvious.

Certainly, Angleton, Dulles, Helms and Phillips weren't "low-level CIA piece-workers," rather, they were high-level CIA employees. However, if somebody wishes to implicate these people in the murder of JFK, then I demand to see empirical proofs and not just wild speculation and personal hunches.

As for the KKK involvement in the murder of JFK, of course it could never be official. There are multiple reasons for this. First, the KKK is a secret society, so its own internal rules would publicly deny any involvement. Secondly, I maintain that the murder of JFK was itself unoffical because my current theory absolves the CIA and the FBI from official participation in the JFK murder plot. I only find the CIA and FBI officially involved in the cover-up.

In my theory, based on empirical evidence, Guy Banister and ex-General Edwin Walker were the senior operatives of the plot to make Lee Harvey Oswald into the patsy of the JFK assassination. There may have been dozens of viable plots to kill JFK, but at the end of the day we know one fact with reasonable certainty -- the plot that made Lee Harvey Oswald into the patsy was the plot that succeeded.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited April 23, 2013 by Paul Trejo