JFK and the Ku Klux Klan

[Terri Williams]

.......And if you seriously think that only 10 people lost their lives at the hands of the White Knights, you are dead wrong. Lynchings were not an everyday occurrence, but they happened often enough and in enough places, that there was probably more like hundreds of people who lost their lives in lynchings.

Until my last post you never mentioned the White Knights. Now all of a sudden you grew up surrounded by them. Now all of a sudden, you're writing about them.

As far as your claim that the KKK started the Citizens' Council, it is you that is dead wrong. You don't seem to want to talk about that.

Whoa, jump not pal. It is true that I do not know very much about the history of the KKK. In fact I did not realize there were different kinds of KKK. I DID grow up surrounded by the White Knights, all of a sudden at my birth. I thought they were the only kind.

Having only tolerated their children's comments in school, over heard details of Klan rallies, witnessed crime galore, not to mention what was going on across the road, being threatened by them, watching my friends get killed by them, are the only dealings I had with them, outside of sitting in their classrooms, churches and shopping in their grocery stores. I didn't have to know the history of the Klan to grow up around them; it just came naturally.

No, I don't know the history of the White Citizens Council. Maybe they were the more genteel of the Klan members, or maybe they were all those Klan friendly nice, white people who just never stepped out of line. There is no way on Earth, that the Klan had no hand in the White Citizens' Council in Terry, Mississippi in 1963. There weren't that many other kinds white people to go around. And if there was, you can bet your boots the Klan had the controlling hand in Mississippi in 1963.

Were there other kinds of Klan in Mississippi, or were the White Knights the only ones? I didn't know there were different kinds. One of their slogans is, "Mississippi: realm of the KKK".

If you really want to know if the Klan are still active in Mississippi, what you do is drive through the state, starting from just south of Memphis, wearing an anti-KKK t-shirt. If you make it to Clarksdale, then it's not too bad. If you make it through Jackson, then you doing all right. Detour and check Terry out. Then, if you make it to Gulfport, there is no KKK. If you are too afraid to try such a thing, then chances are there are still very active KKK in Mississippi. And frankly, I can't see them giving up target practice.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Terri Williams

[John Dolva]

Perhaps they might have thought of theirselves as that, after all the myth of the knight on a white steed is an old fascist type symbol ( to wit the well known poster of Hitler as a knight on a white horse which in itself is based on an older image again ) , however the White Knights were formed in 1964., likely with people who 'were in on it', on some level. I think the Klans in Alabama and the ones in Mississippi connected with them and connected with the Highway Patrol and therefore with Colonel Birdsong and all that that implies ( partly the MHP's role in facilitating the Walker insurrection but much more than that, it's a story of gun-running that MAY lead to Robert Brown and to Costa Rica Contra figures and of course back to the CIA. ) are some of the ones to focus on. Then also New Jersey, Columbia, Oklahoma, Louisiana (particuarly Shreveport and New Orleans, there looking at those most in the NOPD, etc..

I'd like to know more about the White Camelias.

edit typo

Edited January 19, 2013 by John Dolva

[Michael Hogan]

...I was Kennedy supporter and not popular in Mississippi; I did not fit in there. There were others like me, of both races. It is hard to say who might also come forward to back my claim. Certainly it should be the FBI (among others) investigating the claim, not me.

This is an interesting angle. Since Michael pointed out the research done by John Drabble about COINTELPRO-White Hate (an FBI domestic spying program against the KKK from 1964 to 1971) wouldn't it be interesting to review those FBI records with a focus upon Terry, Texas?

Paul. a careful reading of Drabble's article would show that he also relied on the FBI's MIBURN documents. I have spent hours

looking through them; they (and the COINTELPRO documents) are available at the FBI's website.

Drabble originally obtained them via the FOIA act. Historians and authors have written extensively on the Klan in Mississippi using these documents as sources.

You can be sure that Larry Hancock and Stuart Wexler have reviewed each and every one of them under a researcher's microscope.

Although they were researching a book on the assassination of Dr. King, you can be sure that if there was anything there even

peripherally pertaining to President Kennedy's murder, it would be in one of Larry's books or on his blog.

[John Dolva]

among lots of interesting things at this site :

http://acriticalreviewofthehelp.wordpress.com/real-housewives-of-jackson/

Some background info on The (White) Citizen’s Council

Unlike the KKK, the CCA groups had a veneer of civic respectability, inspiring future Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall to refer to it as the “uptown Klan.” While there were plenty of bare-knuckle racists attracted to the councils’ anti-integration slogan, “Never!,” the members also included bankers, merchants, judges, newspaper editors and politicians — folks given more to wearing suits and ties than hoods and robes. During the White Citizens Councils’ heyday, the groups claimed more than 1 million members. Although they weren’t immune to violence — Byron De La Beckwith, who murdered civil-rights leader Medgar Evers in 1963, was a member — the councils generally used their political and financial pull to offset the effects of “forced integration.”

Once the segregation battle was lost, the air went out of the White Citizens Councils. The councils steadily lost members throughout the 1970s and 1980s. Sensing the need for a new direction, Baum, formerly the CCA’s Midwest field director, called together a group of 30 white men, including former Georgia Gov. Lester Maddox and future Louisiana Congressman John Rarick, for a meeting in Atlanta in 1985. Together, they cooked up a successor organization: the Council of Conservative Citizens.

Link: http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/groups/council-of-conservative-citizens

[Michael Hogan]

From John Dolva's post:

During the White Citizens Councils’ heyday, the groups claimed more than 1 million members. Although they weren’t immune to violence — Byron De La Beckwith, who murdered civil-rights leader Medgar Evers in 1963, was a member — the councils generally used their political and financial pull to offset the effects of “forced integration.”

In January 1994 Byron De La Beckwith was brought to trial for the third time for the murder of Medgar Evers. One of the prosecutors was a man by the name of Bobby DeLaughter.

DeLaughter's successful prosecution inspired him to write a book which was later made into the movie Mississippi Burning.

http://www.amazon.co...k/dp/B000FC0S78

DeLaughter attended law school at the University of Mississippi and was a graduate of the FBI's National Law Institute. As a life-long Mississippian, he obviously was very well connected when it came to understanding the hate climate of Mississippi in the 1960s. He decided to become a lawyer when his ninth grade civics teacher took the class to a trial held at the Hinds County courthouse circa 1968.

For the Evers case DeLaughter immersed himself in FBI and Jackson Police records, old trial transcripts, newspaper articles and taped interviews. His closing argument is considered by some to be one of the greatest in the annals of law.

In 1999 DeLaughter was appointed Hinds County Judge and in 2002 he was appointed Circuit Court Judge for Hinds County. He became a resident of Terry, MS.

Born in 1954, DeSlaughter is close to the age of EF member Terri Williams. Consider her account that it was common knowledge among grade schoolers in Terry, MS in the summer of 1963 that President Kennedy was going to be shot when he traveled to Dallas in November and, upon hearing of the shooting, they immediately knew the identity of the man that fired the fatal shot.

Living in Terry, MS, it's hard to imagine that Bobby DeSlaughter never ran into anyone in Hinds County that remembered those events.

(In 2009 DeSlaughter pled guilty to obstruction of justice in a fellow lawyer's bribery case. He spent a little over a year in prison.)

[Terri Williams]

In 1999 DeLaughter was appointed Hinds County Judge and in 2002 he was appointed Circuit Court Judge for Hinds County. He became a resident of Terry, MS.

Born in 1954, DeSlaughter is close to the age of EF member Terri Williams. Consider her account that it was common knowledge among grade schoolers in Terry, MS in the summer of 1963 that President Kennedy was going to be shot when he traveled to Dallas in November and, upon hearing of the shooting, they immediately knew the identity of the man that fired the fatal shot.

Living in Terry, MS, it's hard to imagine that Bobby DeSlaughter never ran into anyone in Hinds County that remembered those events.

(In 2009 DeSlaughter pled guilty to obstruction of justice in a fellow lawyer's bribery case. He spent a little over a year in prison.)

Hell, the man must be smart. I guess someone with those credentials would have to be. He lived in Terry and never heard anyone talk about Dallas. Amazing. Smart man.

the White Knights were formed in 1964

I can't remember any other kind of Klan in Terry. The Klan were in Terry long before the turn of the twentieth century. So if there was no White Knights before 1964, who were those Klansmen who bombed the church in the late fifties? Whatever Klan they belonged to before the White Knights, they were White Knights afterwards. I do not remember ever hearing about any other Klan than the White Knights. Not saying your information is incorrect, but that the same men who were in the Klan, lynching people and bombing churched before 1964, were the same men who WERE lynching & burning after 1964. And that they did do.

I suspect DeLaughter was a Southern Baptist.

[Terri Williams]

Living in Terry, MS, it's hard to imagine that Bobby DeSlaughter never ran into anyone in Hinds County that remembered those events.

My mom worked for Lamar Life for a while when I was young. They were very sexist there. But that was life back then. The white, racist, sexist, bigots reigned supreme.

I can't imagine anyone in Terry talking to DeLaughter about Dallas. It isn't like the Klan to advertise. They know who to keep quiet around (lawyers) and who they can talk around ("crazy" little girls).

But, if that man lived in Terry, peacefully, I gotta wonder about him. I betcha he was Southern Baptist.

I have friends still in Terry. I will ask them about the man.

My cousins know all about Dallas and ------ --- -----. They live across the road from his old place and lived next door to him in the 50's & 60's. You'd have to chop their hands off to make them talk about it. They for sure clam up if I mention anything, especially ------- --- -----. I just can't see them opening up to some lawyer who prosecuted Byron De La Beckwith.

It is no big deal for me to talk about it. I don't live in the "Realm" anymore. But I just can't see anyone else in Terry talking to the man. I might have if I was living there, maybe. But just only before I heading out of state.

Living in Terry was always a struggle for me. I hated it when we had to go back there and loved it when we left. It is my hometown and I know it so well. I love so many things about it, especially my great grandparents' property, but have so much more to fear about it.

The men who were in the Klan back then had children who grew up to be just like daddy. There was a fellow who I went to school with, Steve Gardner. He joined the MHP after high school. He was not an officer, but a communication technician who worked in an office in Meridian, I believe.

Steve was a Klansman. His whole family were deeply rooted Klansmen. Steve loved to harass black people and over stepped his bounds, since he was not an officer, when he stopped a black man traveling on highway 55, one day, for speeding. The black man blew his face off. That was the kind of thing that caused the KKK to lose power. Black people were standing up and fighting back. It also angered them mightily, but made them stop and think. That was sometime in the late eighties or early nineties.

Once in the early eighties when I was visiting Terry, two black men picked me up on Green Gables Road. I had been kicked out of my friend's house, by her aunt & uncle, for smoking pot. So I was walking a long long way back into town. It was mighty hot that day and not much shade along the road, so I was wilting. No white people would pick me up. Then two black guys in a car stopped and let me in the back seat. They found out I was from Canada and instead of turning right at Terry Road to go back into Terry, they turned left and went to Wyndale road.

They pulled the car up behind the church into the woods and said they were gonna rape me. Well, hell, that was the funniest thing I ever heard. I started laughing and asked them if they were aware of who my relatives were. I started rattling off some prominent Klan names and they backed that car up so fast, drove me straight home and threw flower petals on my path as I exited the car. I thanked them for the ride and we all had a nice day. I did not tell the Klan what the guys were attempting to do, because that would have gotten them killed. After all they decided not to rape me and they did rescue me from the heat and did drive me home. I bet that cured their urge to rape white women for a while.

When I go back to Terry, those guys remember me and warn anyone who might want to mess with me, not to do it. AND they give me a ride anywhere I want to go, most safely.

And on my trips back home over the years, I have noticed that the racist grip is far looser than it used to be. I suspect that is because blacks now out number the whites and blacks are not afraid anymore.

But I have no delusions about the Klan, nor does anyone who is black living in the state. We know the Klan are still there and still dangerous, even if fewer in numbers. Those kids I went to school with are my age and are the ruling class in Terry now. There ain't no way they have changed their stripes.

One more thing, if you are looking for white people in Terry, who can confirm the story I tell about the day JFK was killed, you'd have to talk to someone who went to Terry School in November of 1963, who was born in 1951 or earlier. The school was divided into two parts. It was called 'Terry Consolidated School' back then, because it held classes for grades 1 - 12. The elementary classes were traditionally held in one of the three buildings that made up Terry School. The high school building traditionally housed grades 7-12. But that year, there were so many younger students that the sixth grade class, Mrs. Austin's, was forced to move to the high school building. So anyone born after 1951 or 2, would not know of the events that happened that day in the high school building, unless their siblings had been in the high school building.

Need some names?

Edited January 19, 2013 by Terri Williams

[Paul Trejo]

...

I don't know how many of you have done your research into the Klan enough to know about the Royal Titles that were granted to Klan members back then. Not that the Crown and the KKK were in bed together, just that one was descedent from another, down from the Magna Charta, as my family is.

I am not bragging, nor am I trying to incriminate the Royal Family, just saying that it is a fact that some White Knight members had Royal titles. The men would have had titles of 'Baron' or 'Knight' and the women 'Dame'. Well my grandmother was one of them. In order to be granted a royal title, one had to prove they were directly descedent from the families of the Magna Charta (oddly enough). Many southerners were descendent from royal Scottish families, as mine is. My grandmother managed to obtain the proof she needed and helped other southern families do the same. The titles meant a lot to them and descendants were expected to fall into line, Klan line...

Terri, I continue to find your account to be plausible and even riveting. I'm learning more about the KKK on this thread than in a dozen history books. The literature about the Klan in history books is sparse and one-sided. You are offering personal anecdotes of rich detail. Please keep sharing here on the FORUM.

In one of your earlier posts you made a strange double-point: many Northerners believe the KKK died out in the 1920's, and many Northerners believe everybody in the South is KKK.

I totally agree -- this is typical of the one-sidedness of the Northern naivete; "either the KKK is gone or the whole South is KKK and there is no middle term."

But reality is just the opposite of this one-sided view. Reality shows us innumerable nuances of gray. The KKK is absent in one county, but is wide-spread in another county. There is no Either/Or situation -- both Northern opinions are dead wrong.

Also, Terri, I agree with you on sociological grounds about the White Citizens' Council (WCC). Even though Michael is correct to point out that the WCC was founded by Patterson to be non-violent (and therefore to be separate from the KKK), and that this stipulation is part of the original WCC by-laws, it would be naive to imagine that the KKK members would simply stay away.

John Dolva made a perfect example by pointing out that Byron de la Beckwith, the convicted murderer of black Civil RIghts organizer, Medgar Evers, was also a member of the WCC. So here is a famous example of one person who was a member of both the WCC and the KKK at the same time -- regardless of the by-laws of the WCC.

In those counties where the KKK did not rule, I can imagine that the WCC were mild-mannered, middle-class and orderly. However, in counties there the KKK were the majority, I can more easily imagine a WCC meeting to be loud and authoritarian. It simply makes sense to see two white-supremacist organizations in bed together politically. John Dolva has given us one concrete example, and I'm interested in finding more of them.

Furthermore, Terri, your personal accounts of the days of the KKK -- in the 1970s, not the 1920s -- are riveting. I believe that you could string 40 anecdotes about your personal life together, find a publisher and have a best-seller on your hands.

By the way, your decriptions of the White Knights remind me of urban gangs like the Crips and the Bloods in Los Angeles, California. Turf wars were the most important battles; and neighborhood loyalty was often a matter of life-or-death. To think of the White Knights in gangland terms gives more substance to our understanding.

The stories historians read about the KKK tend to be stories from the 1920's and earlier. Michael is right that the KKK tended to fade away after 1920's news accounts of internal murder in their ranks came to the public notice. However, you are also correct to update the story -- after Rosa Parks challenged the all-white dominance of the South in 1955, it only makes sense that the sleeping dog would come awake -- and bark and bark.

As for DeSlaughter, he was a great lawyer who cracked the Byron de la Beckwith case 30 years after the crime (because de la Beckwith had escaped conviction twice before). Americans owe DeSlaughter a debt of gratitude, but that does not make him the final expert on the KKK in Terry Mississippi. Since DeSlaughter wore a suit and tie and was not a member of the KKK, it is just as likely that the KKK withheld mountains of evidence from him. DeSlaughter was an expert in mainly one thread -- the Medgar Evers thread.

Again -- what has this got to do with the assassination of JFK? The closer we look into the social connections of ex-General Edwin A. Walker, the closer we come to the WCC. As it turns out, the WCC produced slick, expensive propaganda films for many years, and tried to sell them in the North. Edwin Walker was a featured speaker.

I want to look closer. I suspect that Guy Banister was another featured speaker. Was Robert Allen Surrey? How about Loran Hall? Robert Welch? Billy James Hargis? H.L. Hunt? I want to know!

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited January 19, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Terri Williams]

Again -- what has this got to do with the assassination of JFK? The closer we look into the social connections of ex-General Edwin A. Walker, the closer we come to the WCC. As it turns out, the WCC produced slick, expensive propaganda films for many years, and tried to sell them in the North. Edwin Walker was a featured speaker.

I want to look closer. I suspect that Guy Banister was another featured speaker. Was Robert Allen Surrey? How about Loran Hall? Robert Welch? Billy James Hargis? H.L. Hunt? I want to know!

Man, I just don't know. I wish I did and if I did, please know I would tell you. There is much more to the situation than meets the eye. Like zooming in on a particular area in google maps, the closer you get to ground level, the more the things you see get in the way of your vision. You have to know where to look. Lots of places to hide things you know, not as many as De La Beckwith thought, though, I guess.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Terri Williams

[Michael Hogan]

Terri, I continue to find your account to be plausible and even riveting. I'm learning more about the KKK on this thread than in a dozen history books. The literature about the Klan in history books is sparse and one-sided.

No it is not sparse. On what basis do you claim that?

I totally agree -- this is typical of the one-sidedness of the Northern naivete; "either the KKK is gone or the whole South is KKK and there is no middle term."

Naivete or the lack thereof is not a function of geographic location. It is a function of intelligence, information and common sense. Where do you get your data to arrive at such a conclusion? To me naivete is actually believing any story, no matter how preposterous or implausible and regardless of other evidence, when it fits your personal theories.

Even though Michael is correct to point out that the WCC was founded by Patterson to be non-violent (and therefore to be separate from the KKK), and that this stipulation is part of the original WCC by-laws, it would be naive to imagine that the KKK members would simply stay away.

Paul, I would appreciate if you would leave my name out of your posts to others if you are not going to accurately address what I was really pointing out. It was namely this: Terri Williams' claim that the Citizens' Council was started by the Klan was a mistake, and demonstrably false to the point of being something she just made up in her head. If you find claims like that plausible and informative, you need to read some of those history books that you try to marginalize.

As for DeSlaughter, he was a great lawyer who cracked the Byron de la Beckwith case 30 years after the crime (because de la Beckwith had escaped conviction twice before). Americans owe DeSlaughter a debt of gratitude, but that does not make him the final expert on the KKK in Terry Mississippi. Since DeSlaughter wore a suit and tie and was not a member of the KKK, it is just as likely that the KKK withheld mountains of evidence from him. DeSlaughter was an expert in mainly one thread -- the Medgar Evers thread.

Until my post, I doubt you were familiar with DeSlaughter's name. I doubt you've read his book. But you've got the man measured.

DeSlaughter was born in Mississippi, lived his formative years during the Civil Rights era and got his law degree from the University of Mississippi. Throughout his life he undoubtedly encountered and engaged members and ex-members (and their families, acquaintances and enemies) of the various hate groups that existed. He probably defended some and he probably prosecuted some. To try and confine his life experiences to the Medgar Evers trial is typical of the way you treat evidence, in my opinion. He was chosen as a prosecutor in that trial for a reason.

He lived in Terry, MS and adjudicated in Hinds County for a decade. long after the Klans had been decimated. Your comment "that does not make him the final expert on the KKK in Terry, Mississippi" is relatively meaningless.. Who do you accept as a final expert? Terri Williams?

Apparently you believe her story that for the entire summer of 1963 that all the people in her grade school knew that President Kennedy was going to be shot in Dallis in November and that Terry wrote JFK a letter trying to warn him. Apparently you believe that the entire school immediately knew who actually fired the fatal shot and that he was one of their own. Apparently you believe that the entire town had that advanced knowledge and then managed to keep it a complete secret from their neighbors in surrounding towns and the rest of Mississippi and federal and state investigators for fifty years. And that no one has ever spoken about it anywhere, except for Terri Williams. How did such a loosely kept secret instantly become such a tightly held secret that has remained intact for fifty years?

It's hard to believe that someone who claims her life was so profoundly influenced by the Ku Klux Klan, and had foreknowledge of such a tragic and historic event would show no evidence of ever having read a book (or even conducting a cursory amount of online research) on the subject in fifty years. Where is the intellectual curiosity?

Her story would have been much better served if she had done that.

Paul, you can call it intended hyperbole, plausible and riveting, or anything else you want. My term would be a bit less euphemistic.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Michael Hogan

[Paul Trejo]

...Paul, I would appreciate if you would leave my name out of your posts to others if you are not going to accurately address what I was really pointing out. It was namely this: Terri Williams' claim that the Citizens' Council was started by the Klan was a mistake, and demonstrably false to the point of being something she just made up in her head. If you find claims like that plausible and informative, you need to read some of those history books that you try to marginalize.

Michael, you want to underscore that Terri's claim about the WCC started by the KKK was a factual mistake.

OK, it's a factual mistake -- yet I disagree that Terri just "made this up in her head" like some arbitrary idea. Rather, Terri bases her statements on her personal experience and impressions, and that is what she is sharing with us. She does not claim to be an historian; she is an eye-witness, and I think we should try to read her account in context and with some generosity, rather than trying to reduce her impressions and opinions to literal, material facts or nothing.

For example, although Robert Patterson deliberately started the WCC with the goal of non-violence and keeping the KKK element out of the WCC, we have some evidence that he was not entirely successful in that regard. A scholarly book, The Citizens' Council, by Neil McMillan (1972) specifically states that some chapters of the Citizens' Council became violent and accepted the KKK philosophy. He cites examples. Yet what would we expect when an organization advertises itself as "white-supremacist?" Would we expect KKK activists to go away and stay away? I think not.

So, while it is a literal fact that the KKK per se did not start the WCC per se, it nevertheless seems factual that the spirit of the KKK, namely, white-supremacy, was the founding spirit of the WCC. I think this is a correct, factual statement, and I believe this is the actual intent of Terri's claim. In this sense I find Terri's claim to be compelling.

If some of Terri's claims are hyperbole, well, I recognized that -- still, I want to point out the grain of truth in her remarks. On the other hand, you seem to wish to ignore the grain of truth and hold her accountable to historian's standards. Well, she isn't claiming to be a historian -- she's claiming to offer personal, anecdotal evidence. I think we should value her offer for what it is.

Until my post, I doubt you were familiar with DeSlaughter's name. I doubt you've read his book. But you've got the man measured.

Actually, Michael, I've read quite a bit about DeSlaughter.

Your comment "that does not make him the final expert on the KKK in Terry, Mississippi" is relatively meaningless.. Who do you accept as a final expert? Terri Williams?

No, I don't regard Terri as a final expert -- I regard her as an honest eye-witness who is trying her best to share the truth with strangers. I find that she has some very interesting comments to make about white-supremacists in her home town. Nor is she speaking from an ivory tower or a University, but from the street level. It remains a valid eye-witness account, IMHO.

Apparently you believe her story that for the entire summer of 1963 that all the people in her grade school knew that President Kennedy was going to be shot in Dallis in November and that Terry wrote JFK a letter trying to warn him. Apparently you believe that the entire school immediately knew who actually fired the fatal shot and that he was one of their own. Apparently you believe that the entire town had that advanced knowledge and then managed to keep it a complete secret from their neighbors in surrounding towns and the rest of Mississippi and federal and state investigators for fifty years. And that no one has ever spoken about it anywhere, except for Terri Williams. How did such a loosely kept secret instantly become such a tightly held secret that has remained intact for fifty years?

It's hard to believe that someone who claims her life was so profoundly influenced by the Ku Klux Klan, and had foreknowledge of such a tragic and historic event would show no evidence of ever having read a book (or even conducting a cursory amount of online research) on the subject in fifty years. Where is the intellectual curiosity?

Her story would have been much better served if she had done that.

1. I do find it plausible that for part of the summer of 1963 that many of the people in her grade school strongly believed that JFK was going to be shot in Dallis in November, and that Terry wrote JFK a letter trying to warn him. Terri has offered to share this letter with us. Wouldn't you like to see it? I would.

2. I do find it plausible that the many in her school strongly believed who actually fired the fatal shot, and that he was one of their own.

3. I do find it plausible that part of her town had that advanced strong belief and managed to keep it a complete secret from their neighbors in surrounding towns and the rest of Mississippi and federal and state investigators for 50 years.

I disbelieve, however, that nobody has ever spoken about it before Terri Williams -- but I do believe that anybody who did speak of it before was probably laughed out of town by everybody who heard the claims.

The Warren Commission never mentioned the KKK (or the WCC) even once. Nor did Jim Garrison. Nor did the House Select Committee on Assassinations. Since these "experts" didn't mention the KKK, naturally the average person would reject such a story out of hand. For many years, as many will remember, anybody who disagreed with the Warren Commission could be socially ostracized.

Many who merely brought up Jim Garrison's name in a social gathering could be socially ostracized. Jim Garrison was considered to be progressive. A KKK theory, in those days, would simply seem outlandish. Even today many people wince when the topic of the HSCA is mentioned.

These are the three official trials, and they are still offensive to talk about in polite society where I live. Yet these three trials and their spin-offs failed to solve this case after half a century. Isn't it time we admit that they might have missed something right under their noses?

Also, as historian Clive Davis mentioned in his book, Massive Resistance (2002), books on the Civil Rights era are overflowing about the advocates, but books about the resisting masses are scarce. This was a historian speaking, so I'm not alone in my perceptions.

Perhaps, Michael, you're criticizing Terri because she's not a historian. Yet she's trying to convey the fact that she is an American who lived in a vastly different cultural milieu than the rest of us. Her home culture was so private and closed that it is not surprising to me that it could remain hidden for half a century. I myself would never dare to test her experiment of walking through her home town today wearing an Anti-KKK T-shirt.

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

<edit typos>

Edited January 20, 2013 by Paul Trejo

[Terri Williams]

First of all, to Michael Hogan...

Secondly, to Paul Trejo, thank you for setting the record straight. I did not come here to see what kind of bullxxxx I thought I could pull over on all the vastly more learned people on this site. The topic is: JFK & the KKK. We are all here because we want what really happened to Kennedy to come to light. And because we don't buy the final conclusion reached by the government.

What should I do, keep keeping the secret secret? I guess I was waiting for the man to die first, I was that afraid of him. He died within the last five or six years, as did some of his more dangerous friends. I feel safe enough from him now. But Michael Hogan, you make me feel worried, like I was afraid would happen if I said anything.

Thirdly, the assertion you made Paul Trejo that:

"3. I do find it plausible that part of her town had that advanced strong belief and managed to keep it a complete secret from their neighbors in surrounding towns and the rest of Mississippi and federal and state investigators for 50 years."

Well, actually, that is not quite true. There are those that know of what I write. They would be select people in racist groups. The racists already know.

It was not necessary to keep it secret from our neighbourhing town, Bryam. That was where the majority of rallies were held that summer. Bannister DID speak at those rallies and at least one in Terry. That's where the plan was hatched.

If most Klansmen, who were the rulers of the South, didn't know what was being planned in Mississippi that year, then I would be most greatly shocked. The Klan knew and the whole South was the realm of the KKK at that time, believe it or not, even in those counties where they were soft Klan, they WERE KLAN.

I find it confusing when you try to separate the Law enforcement and judges and such, from the Klan, because that is not the way it was back then. There must be plenty of books that make that claim as well. They were the Klan, them and a lot of angry white men and boys, not to mention women and girls, babies too.

Paul Trejo: "I disbelieve, however, that nobody has ever spoken about it before Terri Williams -- but I do believe that anybody who did speak of it before was probably laughed out of town by everybody who heard the claims."

In the South they would have been shot. They only share secrets with people they can kill, if necessary.

Also, I find it curious that a guy named Patterson started the WCC. I do remember hearing talk of it, but I was more interested in playing back then. It wasn't a heavy topic at the table until the latter sixties, when it came back with vigour, making plans to create "Academies", private schools for whites only. Another part of the discussions was how to keep blacks out of the town pool they wanted to build. I think the decision was reached that a fee should be charged to blacks that they could not possibly afford. It was a real big problem for them.

There was a prominent Klan family in our town named Patterson. They were the more violent type. Not sure if they were related to Robert Patterson, but it is likely. Robert Patterson's branch might have moved further north to get away from their violent cousins.

And I do recollect talk about the more violent faction being kept out of the limelight. The White Citizens' Council was invented by the Klan, soft Klan maybe, but Klan. I doubt that a soft Klan branch in South Carolina for instance could get away with deciding to totally eliminate segregation if they wanted to. I mean they all had the same agenda, and the evil side created and used the good side. Whether or not it was intentional, the White Citizens' Council was the face the Klan put on when trying to win public support for their cause.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Terri Williams

[Terri Williams]

Michael Hogan, I suspect Paul Trejo also believes the Klan held royal titles of Baron, Knight and Dame. If not, too bad, it's true. My grandmother was the town's genealogist. It was her hobby. She had family connections in Scotland who aided her in obtaining all the documentation she needed to help many Klan families (and non Klan) obtain royal titles. It can still be done today.

Maybe that's where the 'White Knights' business came from.

It constantly amused me how the Klan could go out on a Saturday night and kill someone and then get up and go to church the next day and have the whole town make such a fuss over them. I suppose it annoyed the soft Klan. I mean you could see them there sitting in church, the ones that went to church, looking so damn saintly, and you knew that they either knew of or was part of something tragic the night before. It just made me laugh, while making me sick.

The first lynching I ever experienced, was one night at my great grandparents' house, in the late fifties. My brother and I were in the middle room, in bed. He had told me there would be something happening across the road that night. He really wanted to get up and go over there, but Papa had made an explicit point of telling him he was not allowed. So we lay there and listened.

There was a lot of shouting and yelling, hooting and hollering going on, sometimes with loud cheers thrown in. Then the pitch got serious. The Klan scream at people a lot. They scream at each other, they like to scream.

You can tell when it is not the Klan making the noise, because you can hear the fear in the voice. Many scream gleefully and one screams in terror and pain, until it stops.

You are perfectly right about the Klan not being all that active until the Little Rock/Rosa Parks era. That's when lynching became an every weekend occurrence. We were no longer allowed to visit with the Taylor's or the Ransom's. Even if things hadn't heated up, we were never allowed to go to the Taylor's or Ransom's on our own anyway; that would have gotten a big whooping, at any time, even in a soft Klan family. Besides, no good Klan would have ever dreamed of doing such a thing. It wasn't everyone who visited with black families; ours' did, but not after the earlier fifties.

We were not supposed to play with black children in town either, but my brothers did, so of course I followed. I had more fun with them, than with the white kids.

Black kids were mostly from poor families and most of them spoke a form of English that was foreign to me. I imagine it was a language developed by slaves to talk about their masters and discuss plans without their masters knowing. The 50's/60's south is the only place I ever heard that language. I was so intrigued by the way they spoke. I wanted to know more.

My brothers soon learned, if they wanted to get away with stuff, they should not let me tag along. It wasn't that I told on them or anything, it's just that the town is small, so if a neighbour looks out his window and sees a white girl playing with black children, calls are quickly made and the girl sent home. Neighbours were not as concerned if the boys were spotted playing with black children, but girls doing that got their attention but quick. So I was left out of a lot, probably, fortunately, because if I had kept doing that, someone black might have died

The black kids knew that. That's why they were reluctant to play with my brothers. Of course even my older brother had to give up going to that side of town not long after I was banned, because the pressure the Klan was putting on my grandmother was becoming unbearable. It just was not kosher activity for young white boys. If my sibling had persisted, it might have gotten someone killed.

Fortunately, I liked to ride my horse and just headed away from prying eyes when I got old enough.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Terri Williams

[Terri Williams]

Please allow me to clarify something. There were people I knew for absolutely sure, were in the Ku Klux Klan, White Knights. Then there were people who were in that group, but I didn't know for sure. Those people I just considered Klan by their actions. It was important for anyone to make the distinction because one did need to know who the Klan were, if one did not join them.

The Klan knew who everybody was, so they had the upper hand. Those who did not join the Klan were watched. anyone who stepped out of line, like my grandfather and mother did, were dealt with -Klan would approach the family and make it clear the family has to send the 'radical' member for shock treatment or some such. That happened in the 40's & 50's, at least in my family. This of course is the way Klan did things if the white family with the radical member were wealthy or of importance, someone whose death could not be easily hid.

If the family was poor, well that was it for the radical member -back to the woods with them.

So knowing who you felt you could trust involved watching people yourself, if you were not Klan. You had to be very careful how you approached them, cause if they were Klan friendly, you could be in trouble. People of conscience did manage to know instinctually who was Klan and who was not. Back then, most people were not Klan. Most White People were, but not all. And the ones who were not, along with Black People, made more people who were not Klan. So most people had to know who they are talking to and usually they did.

Of course I do not know of any poor white people who stepped out of line. They ceased to exist before I could meet them. Most poor were Klan out of necessity.

Most Klan boys were obsessed with the Civil War, so they were easy to spot. Most Klan children would go out of their way to be nasty to a person of colour. Some did not, and were polite to the face, but would make disparaging remarks about the person behind their backs. By the time anyone hit ten, it was pretty clear who Klan were and who were not. Having them around watching, always watching was like living under some savage, military dictatorship. It was Apartheid.

Because I was sent away at the age of 17 and never returned to live there, most of my recollections are from the 50's & 60's. Having been back to visit, I noticed the changes over the decades. My hometown is still not a place I would feel safe living in. Not only has the family land and fortune dwindled into the control of my cousins, they are heavy duty Klan.

You might even be surprised that the racists and the Klan have branched out into places you'd never suspect.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Terri Williams

[Robert Howard]

Overlap in the context of political murder, is a slippery slope. I have always had an acute interest in the goings-on of the Ku Klux Klan in 1963, for reasons which I do not believe need to be enumerated. Terri's account of the Klan and her personal memories deserve to be given at least the respect accorded even by conservative standards, the respect given to someone who is sincerely given 'the benefit of the doubt.'

But my purpose is not to get into a debating match over the merits of a forum visitor, but to point out that there is a large amount of those who have made their life's journey, or a great part of it getting to the essence of the events regarding President Kennedy's death. One constant amongst those who have dug deeper is that a political assassination of the magnitude of a president in the "modern-era," is that there is no previous model to follow, the last presidential assassination resulting in the death of a President was that of McKinley, Truman at Blair House, obviously was botched and of-course no death. So, regarding JFK there are "black-ops" of that time, particularly mind-control operations and other areas of importance; organized crime, the Cuba angle, evidence of nefarious activity even within the President's cabinet, the latter being so close to the epicenter of American government, and which have always generated the most controversy, as well as the most bitter media reactions because the smoke is there, and the fact that there are still classified documents only adds to the feeling of futility among those who tend to be open to realities that are not politically correct.

The point of all this in relation to the right-wing is to say that 50 years later, the areas of interest are intertwined on some level, I have repeatedly echoed my belief that one of the reasons, which accounts for the confusion, is that when scouring these various areas, I stipulate that we are not looking at one "massive plot" but, that, at least some of the factual information involves persons seeking JFK's death who were plotting, but were beat to the punch. Chicago, Miami, and Dallas are the telltale signs that one group was the mechanism for 11/22/63, but the analogy I would make is that in looking at all the events of 1963 involving the assassination of JFK as a whole, is like looking at a photo of a jigsaw puzzle one is trying to piece together and realizing that, you do not have too few pieces, but too many. Which is not to say that in the overall equation, there are no missing pieces, ostensibly there are by virtue of the fact there are still classified documents.

Concluding: If you have the belief that there is a "overlap" in the JFK assassination, the idea that organized crime figures, say with right-wing Klan figures, in this case Mississippi, should not be taken as a "reach," but as a reflection of the reality of the event being addressed:

So, take a look at the document below, from the Criminal Intelligence Program in Dallas, connecting to Mississippi. Even though it is not dated November 1963, it is evidence that there was an inter-connection, if you accept the premise I am trying to establish.

https://www.maryferr...do?docId=141360

Cheers

Edited January 21, 2013 by Robert Howard