New Proof of JFK Film Fakery: "Conclusive Evidence", Experts Claim

[Greg Burnham]

And it's a bloody shame that you don't speak up and oppose the dissemination of falsehoods on this forum.

That is unforgivable. You have seen the other film. You know what I am claiming is true. Yet you are silent.

Jim,

I have far and away greater "proof" than you of the limousine stop and therefore of alteration. Yet, even I do not demand that Robin Unger or anyone else accept it as fact. They owe it to themselves and to

future generations to "prove it" in a manner consistent with what they know to be true and then build on that. They don't wish to end up in the uncomfortable predicament of requesting that others accept

what they say as true simply because they said so. That is not good enough. So long as the person doing the study on the Zapruder film is honest and is of an open mind to where the evidence leads, then I

support their efforts to find out the truth. Notice I did not say I support their efforts to prove that my belief or my argument or my position is right. I said I support their journey toward the truth--even if they must

go the long way around the block to get there. So far, very few, if any, anti-alterationists have ever called me a xxxx as to what I saw. None, including Robin Unger have challenged me on what I saw. Many simply

want to "see for themselves" in order to remove any doubt. It is my belief that their skepticism will ultimately pay off... where an honest broker among them attempts to discover why it cannot be true, but, somewhat

serendipitously, ends up discovering why it MUST be true.

There is no shame in allowing people to find their own way, Jim. There is a tremendous difference between Lamson and Unger, and therefore a tremendous difference in my response, be it harsh or congenial, respectively,

to each of them. But, this is not about me being right; my claims; or my "poster-boy" position as the 50th approaches...and it shouldn't be about yours either.

[Robin Unger]

Quote:

We KNOW that Clint Hill climbed aboard, pushed

Jackie back and laid across their bodies, all before the limo reached the Triple Underpass.

If it is now the case that we both can agree on the above comments,

Then we need not visit this topic again

[John Dolva]

"MUST be true." or not, depending on each particular claim for alteration.

edit typo

Edited March 6, 2013 by John Dolva

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

So, according to Robin Unger and John Dolva (and many more, no doubt), when these eyewitnesses--

who, unlike Unger and Dolva, WERE ACTUALLY THERE--reported that the limo had come to a halt, they

(according to Unger and Dolva) must have been LYING THEIR EYES OFF. How absurd can this get?

A sure sign of phonies and shills is that NO AMOUNT OF EVIDENCE WILL GET THEM TO CHANGE THEIR

MINDS--for the simple reason that THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THE PURSUIT OF TRUTH but instead

have an agenda to thwart it. IS ANY OTHER EXPLANATION REASONABLE UNDER THESE CONDITIONS?

And here is Gregory Burnham, who knows better because he has ACTUALLY SEEN THE OTHER

FILM, yet he remains silent! He pretends that this is a RATIONAL STANCE, when it could instead

be viewed as AN ACT OF COWARDICE. Why is he NOT SPEAKING UP? That is the conundrum.

There will never be ENOUGH PROOF for those WHO DON'T CARE ABOUT EVIDENCE. I know someone

in the intel business, who, when I observed that I thought as much as 50% of those on these forums are

actually working for the other side, corrected me: "90%", he told me. I am now beginning to believe him.

Edited March 6, 2013 by James H. Fetzer

[Robin Unger]

regarding Altgen's 7

Quote:

Lest there be any doubt on this crucial point, in Clint Hill’s written statement dated 30 November 1963, which was published as Commission Exhibit CE 1024, he wrote: “As I lay over the top of the back seat I noticed a portion of the President’s head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. I saw a part of his skull with hair on it lying on the seat” [18H742]. And in his testimony to the commission on 9 March 1964, “The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the middle of the car. His brain was exposed.” [2H141]. Since he has told us he made these observations before the limousine had reached the pilot car drive by Chief Curry (shown above), this photo has to have been faked. Clint could not have made these observations from the rear foothold as it represents. (His descriptions of the wound to the right rear of JFK’s head are discussed below.)

As i understand it Jim you conclude that Altgen's 7 is Faked because it doesn't leave time for Clint Hill to put Jackie back in her seat, and lay across her while viewing kennedys head wounds.

This is what i think is happening.

It is a PERSPECTIVE problem.

I think that you see the Limo as being much closer to the overpass than it really is ?

At this point the Limo is still some distance from the LIGHT POLE on the right hand side of the limo.

Zapruder frames showing the Limo in relation to the same LIGHT POLE

By the time the Limo reaches the light pole Jackie is back in her seat, and can be seen leaning over kennedy

Click on images to view full size:

Edited March 6, 2013 by Robin Unger

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

Here's your chance to speak up, Greg Burnham! Is Unger right? Did all this take place later,

AFTER the limo had reached the Triple Underpass? Tell us what you saw in "the other film"?

regarding Altgen's 7

Quote:

Lest there be any doubt on this crucial point, in Clint Hill’s written statement dated 30 November 1963, which was published as Commission Exhibit CE 1024, he wrote: “As I lay over the top of the back seat I noticed a portion of the President’s head on the right rear side was missing and he was bleeding profusely. Part of his brain was gone. I saw a part of his skull with hair on it lying on the seat” [18H742]. And in his testimony to the commission on 9 March 1964, “The right rear portion of his head was missing. It was lying in the middle of the car. His brain was exposed.” [2H141]. Since he has told us he made these observations before the limousine had reached the pilot car drive by Chief Curry (shown above), this photo has to have been faked. Clint could not have made these observations from the rear foothold as it represents. (His descriptions of the wound to the right rear of JFK’s head are discussed below.)

As i understand it Jim you conclude that Altgen's 7 is Faked because it doesn't leave time for Clint Hill to put Jackie back in her seat, and lay across her while viewing kennedys head wounds.

This is what i think is happening.

It is a PERSPECTIVE problem.

I think that you see the Limo as being much closer to the overpass than it really is ?

At this point the Limo is still some distance from the LIGHT POLE on the right hand side of the limo.

Zapruder frames showing the Limo in relation to the same LIGHT POLE

By the time the Limo reaches the light pole Jackie is back in her seat, and can be seen leaning over kennedy

Click on images to view full size:

[Michael Hogan]

And here is Gregory Burnham, who knows better because he has ACTUALLY SEEN THE OTHER

FILM, yet he remains silent! He pretends that this is a RATIONAL STANCE, when it could instead

be viewed as AN ACT OF COWARDICE. Why is he NOT SPEAKING UP? That is the conundrum.

What a bunch of double spaced, upper case contemptible crap.

Greg has earned his excellent reputation among JFK researchers for good reasons.

Jim Fetzer has earned the scorn that has come his way on this and other threads, for good reasons.

[Greg Burnham]

And here is Gregory Burnham, who knows better because he has ACTUALLY SEEN THE OTHER

FILM, yet he remains silent! He pretends that this is a RATIONAL STANCE, when it could instead

be viewed as AN ACT OF COWARDICE. Why is he NOT SPEAKING UP? That is the conundrum.

I have spoken up many times about this including on your radio show. I do not even recall seeing

Clint Hill interact with Jackie at the car at all! That is NOT because it didn't happen, but because I

was focused elsewhere at the time, namely on the agents who emerged from the Queen Mary with

weapons drawn. Therefore, I can't confirm or refute his actions as claimed from what I remember.

I'm recovering from a major surgery. It is not cowardice that I have hardly been able to sit at the computer

for more than 15 minutes at a time for the past month. It takes nearly that long to read even one of your

convoluted picture stories. It is difficult to type since I have lost feeling in my thumbs and forefingers.

That is expected to improve with time, but for now it is a challenge. So is the 24/7 hard collar neck

brace which disallows me to turn my head or to bend it forward to see the keyboard easily.

Jim, you are becoming a monster. At least I only look like one...but that will change when I heal. Yours

is for life.

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."--Edmund Burke

And here is Gregory Burnham, who knows better because he has ACTUALLY SEEN THE OTHER

FILM, yet he remains silent! He pretends that this is a RATIONAL STANCE, when it could instead

be viewed as AN ACT OF COWARDICE. Why is he NOT SPEAKING UP? That is the conundrum.

I have spoken up many times about this including on your radio show. I do not even recall seeing

Clint Hill interact with Jackie at the car at all! That is NOT because it didn't happen, but because I

was focused elsewhere at the time, namely on the agents who emerged from the Queen Mary with

weapons drawn. Therefore, I can't confirm or refute his actions as claimed from what I remember.

I'm recovering from a major surgery. It is not cowardice that I have hardly been able to sit at the computer

for more than 15 minutes at a time for the past month. It takes nearly that long to read even one of your

convoluted picture stories. It is difficult to type since I have lost feeling in my thumbs and forefingers.

That is expected to improve with time, but for now it is a challenge. So is the 24/7 hard collar neck

brace which disallows me to turn my head or to bend it forward to see the keyboard easily.

Jim, you are becoming a monster. At least I only look like one...but that will change when I heal. Yours

is for life.

[Greg Burnham]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."--Edmund Burke

"Good men become bad men when their egos overshadow their conscience." -- Greg Burnham

[David Andrews]

Good luck to you, Greg. I have always thought highly of your work.

[Greg Burnham]

Good luck to you, Greg. I have always thought highly of your work.

Thanks David. We expect a full recovery.

[Thomas Graves]

Good luck to you, Greg. I have always thought highly of your work.

Thanks David. We expect a full recovery.

Greg,

--Tommy

[Guest James H. Fetzer]

You know better. Just review the evidence I have presented on this single thread--not to mention

what I have provided on the other three. If you can't remember more, tell us what you can recall,

so your recollection of "the other film" becomes a part of this record. That, at least, confirms what

I have been asserting about the limo having been brought to a halt. That would be something you

could contribute for which I and every other honest member of this forum would be in your debt.

Here's a link to "The Real Deal" interview, which was preceded by Jesse Ventura: Gregory Burnham

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."--Edmund Burke

"Good men become bad men when their egos overshadow their conscience." -- Greg Burnham

Edited March 6, 2013 by James H. Fetzer

[Greg Burnham]

You know better. Just review the evidence I have presented on this single thread--not to mention

what I have provided on the other three. If you can't remember more, tell us what you can recall,

so your recollection of "the other film" becomes a part of this record. That, at least, confirms what

I have been asserting about the limo having been brought to a halt. That would be something you

could contribute for which I and every other honest member of this forum would be in your debt.

Here's a link to "The Real Deal" interview, which was preceded by Jesse Ventura: Gregory Burnham

I've had enough of debating the car stop. It stopped. That's it. I've had enough of the Z-film debate.

The information is out there for those who are interested, but proving Z-film alteration is unnecessary

to demonstrate that there was a conspiracy.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Greg Burnham