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No, that was the whole point. They couldn't fake major newspapers

because it would have been OBVIOUS. Everyone would have noticed.

In fact, that the Altgens6 does not appear in The New York Times in its

23 November 1963 edition is further proof that it was not available yet.

Notice that for all his efforts, Robin Unger has NEVER ADDRESSED THE

BASIC EVIDENCE, namely, the consistent reports from multiple witnesses:

* James Chaney (motorcycle patrolman on right rear of the Presidential limousine): “I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital and that Parkland was standing by.”

* Bobby Hargis (motorcycle patrolman on left rear of the Presidential limousine): “The motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the Chief that the President had been shot.”

* Winston Lawson (Secret Service Agent in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine): “A motorcycle escort officer pulled along side our Lead Car and said the President had been shot. Chief Curry gave a signal over the radio for police to converge on the area of the incident.”

* Forrest Sorrels (Secret Service Agent in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine): “A motorcycle patrolman pulled up alongside of the car and Chief Curry yelled, ‘Is anybody hurt?’, to which the officer responded in the affirmative.”

* Chief Jesse Curry (in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine): “. . . about this time a motorcycle officer, I believe it was Officer Chaney, rode up beside us and I asked if something happened back there and he said, ‘Yes,’ and I said ‘Has somebody been shot?” And he said, ‘I think so.’”

There are multiple sources for their testimony, which is corroborated by that

of others, including Marrion Baker, a Dallas Police Officer, who immediately

thereafter entered the Book Depository and confronted Lee Oswald in the

lunchroom and reported looking back and seeing Chaney motor forward:

Actually he did, and he did it quite well. You missed it.

Oh wait, maybe his posts were faked too.

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Guest James H. Fetzer

Motorcycle police officer Chaney rode up to the lead car and spoke to Police Chief Jesse Curry.

James Chaney (motorcycle policeman, on the right rear fender of the Presidential limousine), November 22, 1963: “Then the, uh, second shot came, well then I looked back just in time to see the President struck in the face by the second bullet. He slumped forward into Mrs. Kennedy’s lap, and uh, it was apparent to me that we’re being fired upon. I went ahead of the President’s car to inform Chief Curry that the President had been hit. And then he instructed us over the air to take him to Parkland Hospital, and he had Parkland standing by. I went on up ahead of the—[lead car]—to notify the officer that was leading the escort that he [the President] had been hit and we’re going to have to move out.” [interview with Bill Lord of ABC News for WFAA-TV, as quoted in Trask, That Day in Dallas]

Bobby Hargis (motorcycle policeman on the left rear fender of the Presidential limousine), November 23, 1963: “The motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward, and announced to the Chief that the President had been shot.” [Daily News report]

Forrest Sorrels (Secret Service agent, in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine), November 28, 1963: “I noted that the President’s car had axcelerated [sic] its speed and was closing fast the gap between us. A motorcycle pulled up alongside of the car and Chief Curry yelled ‘Is anybody hurt?’, to which the officer replied in the affirmative, and Chief Curry immediately broadcast to surround the building. By that time we had gotten just about under the underpass when the President’s car pulled up alongside, and at that time Chief Curry’s car had started to pick up speed, and someone yelled to get to the nearest hospital, and Chief Curry broadcast for the hospital to be ready.” [statement: 21H548]

Winston Lawson (Secret Service agent, in the lead car ahead of the Presidential limousine), December 1, 1963: “A motorcycle escort officer pulled alongside our Lead Car and said the President had been shot. Chief Curry gave a signal over his radio for police to converge on the area of the incident.” [statement: CE772: 17H632]

James Chaney (motorcycle policeman, on the right rear fender of the Presidential limousine), from the testimony of Marrion Baker (Dallas Police Officer, on Houston Street when the shots started), March 25, 1964: “I talked to Jim Chaney, and he made the statement that the two shots hit Kennedy first and then the other one hit the Governor. (Mr. Belin: “Where was he?”) Mr. Baker: “He was on the right rear to the car or to the side, and then at that time the chief of police, he didn’t know anything about this [the shooting], and he [Chaney] moved up and told him [the chief], and then that was during the time that the Secret Service men were trying to get in the car ....” [Warren Commission testimony: 3H266]

Bobby Hargis (motorcycle policeman on the left rear fender of the Presidential limousine), April 8, 1964: “...when President Kennedy straightened back up in the car the bullet hit him in the head, the one that killed him and it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of a bloody water. It wasn’t really blood. And at that time the Presidential car slowed down. I heard some one say, ‘Get going,’ or ‘get going,’——” (Mr. Stern: “Someone inside——”) Mr. Hargis: “I don’t know whether it was the Secret Service car, and I remembered seeing Officer Chaney. Chaney put his motor in first gear and accelerated up to the front to tell them to get everything out of the way, that he [the President] was coming through, and that is when the Presidential limousine shot off ....” [Warren Commission testimony: 6H294]

Chief Jesse Curry (in lead car, in front of the Presidential limousine), April 15, 1964: “I heard a sharp report. We were near the railroad yards at the time, and I didn’t know—I didn’t know exactly where this report came from, whether it was above us or where, but this was followed by two more reports, and at that time I looked in my rear view mirror and I saw some commotion in the President’s caravan and realized that probably something was wrong, and it seemed to be speeding up, and about this time a motorcycle officer, I believe it was Officer Chaney rode up beside us and I asked if something happened back there and he said, ‘Yes,’ and I said, ‘Has somebody been shot?’ And he said,‘I think so.’ ” [Warren Commission testimony: 12H28]

Winston Lawson (Secret Service agent, in the lead car ahead of the Presidential limousine), April 23, 1964: “... I recall noting a police officer pulled up in a motorcycle alongside of us, and mentioned that the President had been hit.” [Warren Commission testimony: 4

H353]

Forrest Sorrels (Secret Service agent, in the lead car in front of the Presidential limousine), May 7, 1964: “Within about 3 seconds, there were two more similar reports. And I said, ‘Let’s get out of here’ and looked back, all the way back, then, to where the President’s car was, and I saw some confusion, movement there, and the car just seemed to lurch forward.

And, in the meantime, a motorcycle officer had run up on the right-hand side and the chief yelled to him, ‘Anybody hurt?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘Lead us to the hospital.’ And the chief took his microphone and told them to alert the hospital, and said, ‘Surround the building.’ He didn’t say what building. He just said, ‘Surround the building.’ ” [Warren Commission testimony: 7H345]

What Happened on Elm Street? The Eyewitnesses Speak

ASSASSINATION RESEARCH / Vol. 5 No. 1 © Copyright 2007 John P. Costella

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Guest James H. Fetzer

How much rubbish from the photo-fakers are we supposed to take?

Anyone who wants to understand what happened in Dealey Plaza

really has to read the collation of eyewitness reports, which provide

a coherent description of what took plane and demonstrate that the

Altgens7 and the home movies are fabrications made after the fact.

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How much rubbish from the photo-fakers are we supposed to take?

Anyone who wants to understand what happened in Dealey Plaza

really has to read the collation of eyewitness reports, which provide

a coherent description of what took plane and demonstrate that the

Altgens7 and the home movies are fabrications made after the fact.

Yea, eyewitness testimony...hugely unreliable....kind of like a certain ex-professor...

Edited by Craig Lamson
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Guest James H. Fetzer

This is beyond idiotic. Half-a-dozen eyewitnesses, including

the Chief of Police, Secret Service Agents, and Motorcycle

Escort Officers have given both sworn and unsworn reports

that are consistent and convergent. This is the last gasp of

a desperate man, who has dedicated himself to defending

the indefensible--false accounts of the events in the plaza

on 22 November 1963--and he is unwilling to give them up!

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This is beyond idiotic. Half-a-dozen eyewitnesses, including

the Chief of Police, Secret Service Agents, and Motorcycle

Escort Officers have given both sworn and unsworn reports

that are consistent and convergent. This is the last gasp of

a desperate man, who has dedicated himself to defending

the indefensible--false accounts of the events in the plaza

on 22 November 1963--and he is unwilling to give them up!

And in fact the only one of these that says anything like what you are claiming is Chaney himself.

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Chaney said he spoke to Currie and then road ahead to inform the lead motorcycles that they should proceed to Parkland.

No Chaney seen in Bell, just the 3 - lead motorcycles

Chaney also said that he saw the president hit IN THE FACE with the second bullet ?

BellAnimation2.gif

Edited by Robin Unger
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Guest James H. Fetzer

Actually, it was the puppet, "Lambchop", Jackie was given as Jack White found before his death.

Jackie+and+Lambchop.jpg

JFK+and+Lambchop.jpg

So Unger is wrong and Lamson is not even right about eyewitnesses. A Harvard study has shown

that, when what is being viewing is salient (or important), witnesses are 98% accurate and 98%

complete. And how could it be otherwise? A species so dependent upon processing information

visually is going to have difficulty evolving if the information it obtains visually is not highly reliable.

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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Quote:

Actually, it was the puppet, "Lambchop", Jackie was given as Jack White found before his death.

So Unger is wrong

It was Jean Hill's statement that she saw a little dog ( NOT MINE )

So how can i be wrong ?

VOLUNTARY STATEMENT. Not Under Arrest Form No. 86

SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT

COUNTY OF DALLAS, TEXAS

Before me, the undersigned authority, on this the 22nd day of November A.D. 1963 personally appeared Jean Hill, Address 9402 Bluffcreek, Dallas 27, Texas Age 32 , Phone No. EV1-7419

Deposes and says:

Mary and I were wanting to take some pictures of the President so we purposely tried to find a place that was open where no people was around and we had been standing half way down toward the underpass on Elm Street on the south side. We were the only people in that area and we were standing right at the curb. The Presidents [sic] car came around the corner and it was over on our side of the street. Just as Mary Moorman started to take a picture we were looking at the president and Jackie in the back seat and they were looking at a little dog between them. Just as the president looked up toward us two shots rang out and I saw the President grab his chest and fall forward across Jackies [sic] lap and she fell across his back and said "My God he has been shot". Three was an instant pause between the first two shots and the motorcade seemingly halted for an instant and three or four more shots rang out and the motorcade sped away. I thought I saw some men in plain clothes shooting back but everything was such a blur and Mary was pulling on my leg saying "Get down thery [sic] are shooting". I looked across the street and up the hill and saw a man running toward the monument and I started running over there. By the time I got up to the rail road tracks some policeman that I suppose were [sic] in the motorcade or near by had also arrived and was turning us back and as I came back down the hill Mr. Featherstone of the Times Herald had gotten to Mary and ask her for her picture she had taken of the President, and he brought us to the press room downn [sic] at the Sheriffs office and ask to stay.

/s/ Jean Hill

FOR YOUR INFORMATION

It wasn't a dog

or a hand puppet

It was a bouquet of white Astors

Click on images to view full size:

White_asters.jpg

16443.jpg

Edited by Robin Unger
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Everyone should read for themselves the reports of Jesse Curry, Winston Lawson, Forrest Sorrels, Bobby

Hargis, Marrion Baker and James Chaney to see if Lamson's dismissal is remotely justified. [Removed by moderator because it states that another poster is lying, which is against Forum Rules.] .

Yes, read them and see where Fetzer and his cohorts make huge ASSUMPTIONS instead of accurately reading the words.

Please show us where the other quotes tell us Chaney was going PAST JFK's Limo...

Edited by Kathy Beckett
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Actually, it was the puppet, "Lambchop", Jackie was given as Jack White found before his death.

Jackie+and+Lambchop.jpg

JFK+and+Lambchop.jpg

So Unger is wrong and Lamson is not even right about eyewitnesses. A Harvard study has shown

that, when what is being viewing is salient (or important), witnesses are 98% accurate and 98%

complete. And how could it be otherwise? A species so dependent upon processing information

visually is going to have difficulty evolving if the information it obtains visually is not highly reliable.

Sure jimmy...the witnesses that support you are correct. So ALL the witnesses in this case are 98 percent accurate and 98 percent complete. Or is it just the ones YOU want to support whatever silly claim you have cooked up?

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Guest James H. Fetzer

We all know why you are here, Lamson. Those who are with you

are with you for the same reasons. That is simply a fact of life.

Edited by James H. Fetzer
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