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William Kelly

Oswald Leaving TSBD?

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There is a very odd detail in Roy Truly's FBI interview report from the evening of the assassination:

TrulyFBInov22crop_zps6695fb28.jpg

They saw no one there.

Where? Why, just inside the front of the building.

Ask yourself:

  • Why is Truly even having to disclaim having seen 'someone' there?
  • Doesn't it seem to you like he has been asked the question, Did you see 'anyone' there?
  • Now what might have given the interviewing agents the very idea of asking Truly such a question?
  • And why is the writer of the report making a point of including such a non-event in said report?
  • Could it be that 'someone'--some significant third party--has been talking noisily about having seen Truly and an officer 'there', just inside the front of the building, just after the shooting?
  • If so, then might that 'someone' be none other than the person we have been calling Prayer Man--a young white short-haired male, evidently a person employed in the TSBD building, who was at the front entrance during the shooting yet went oddly unnoticed by everyone else congregated there?
Good observation. One wonders how many other instances there were of Truly "not-seeing someone", but failed to include in his report.

The truth is, We know from the photo and film evidence that Truly and Baker would have passed right by Prayer Man (and numerous other people) as they entered the building.

Mr. Hocking

The WC seemed to put so much stock in these FBI "interviews". Interestingly, they are always written, by the agent, in the third person and I have yet to see one signed by the interviewee, as would be the case with a police statement.

The FBI interview that intrigues me the most, and, to me, speaks volumes about FBI statements in general, is the interview with Linnie Mae Randle. In it, according to the FBI, she described the paper bag as being thirty-six inches long; yet in her testimony to the WC she adamantly maintained the bag was closer to twenty-seven inches in length.

Could an overly eager FBI agent have added the "They saw no one there..." to this statement?

Robert, I think that is what we are all pondering. Whether it was an FBI agent, or Truly himself, the remark "They saw no one there ..." sticks out oddly like a red flag. Especially when we know Truly and Baker had just passed the person whose identity is the subject of this thread.

btw, "Richard" is fine.

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Here's a photo of the TSBD front stairs that go up to the Second Floor, and another photo that includes a door, heater pipes and a cigarette machine, that I can't identify, but is labeld TSBD first floor, and some floor diagrams.

JFKCountercoup2: TSBD First Floor

As for Ray's attempt to identify the original source of these questions, I want to know why the HSCA photo committee didn't review this issue, or the ARRB, both having done graphic professional analysis of other, less serious photo issues and identifications.

Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,?

Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RRE

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Randy Sorensen sends along the following:


I found the following pictures of the Texas School Book Depository building entryway that might be useful for starters:

I send this to you because I have no other way to communicate with the forum. If you could forward these links to Mr. Hocking, I would appreciate it.
Fairly recent picture



Early picture



Early picture – close up




Thanks!


Randy

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Carolyn Arnold insisted--to Anthony Summers, Earl Golz, Gary Mack and others--that she spotted Oswald in the second-floor lunchroom several minutes before the assassination.

Now put the case that Arnold's claim is true and then read the following section of FBI agents Bookhout & Hosty's co-written first interrogation report (11/22/63):

Oswald stated that he went to lunch at approximately noon and he claimed he ate his lunch on the first floor in the lunchroom; however he went to the second floor where the Coca-Cola machine was located and obtained a bottle of Coca-Cola for his lunch. Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed this building.

The startling possibility arises that Bookhout and Hosty are giving Oswald's three claims in simple chronological sequence:

  1. I went to lunch in the domino room
  2. Then I went up to the second-floor lunchroom and bought a coke
  3. Then I went back down to the first floor, which is where I was when the President passed the building

Claim 1 comes with a precise location--the domino room--and is supported by Oswald's noticing two black co-workers passing through (i.e. Norman & Jarman coming in the back entrance of the first floor and proceeding across to the freight elevator)

Claim 2 comes with a precise location--the second-floor lunchroom--and is supported by Carolyn Arnold's recollection

Claim 3 comes without any precise location, a fact which just may be explained by the utterly calamitous location of the Prayer Man figure in Wiegman & Darnell.

Did Lee Oswald offer Will Fritz a very precisely localised Claim 3 and were the details of this alibi-sealing claim suppressed?

Edited by Sean Murphy

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As for Ray's attempt to identify the original source of these questions, I want to know why the HSCA photo committee didn't review this issue, or the ARRB, both having done graphic professional analysis of other, less serious photo issues and identifications.

As for the HSCA, Blakey has my sympathy. He was given a pathetic budget

and in fairness he hired Robert Groden.

But he could not give Robert the resources and support he would have needed

to make the kind of breakthrough we are witnessing here.

Edited by J. Raymond Carroll

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Is it fair to say, Sean

that everyone in the TSBD doorway

is an employee of the building?

Can you, or anyone, see any strangers

apart of course from

Prayer Man.

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Randy Sorensen sends along the following:
I found the following pictures of the Texas School Book Depository building entryway that might be useful for starters:
I send this to you because I have no other way to communicate with the forum. If you could forward these links to Mr. Hocking, I would appreciate it.
Fairly recent picture
Early picture
Early picture – close up
Thanks!
Randy

The first floor (or is it the second floor LOL) "lobby" (or "vestibule" ?) area:

https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10896&relPageId=15

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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There is a very odd detail in Roy Truly's FBI interview report from the evening of the assassination:

TrulyFBInov22crop_zps6695fb28.jpg

They saw no one there.

Where? Why, just inside the front of the building.

Ask yourself:

  • Why is Truly even having to disclaim having seen 'someone' there?
  • Doesn't it seem to you like he has been asked the question, Did you see 'anyone' there?
  • Now what might have given the interviewing agents the very idea of asking Truly such a question?
  • And why is the writer of the report making a point of including such a non-event in said report?
  • Could it be that 'someone'--some significant third party--has been talking noisily about having seen Truly and an officer 'there', just inside the front of the building, just after the shooting?
  • If so, then might that 'someone' be none other than the person we have been calling Prayer Man--a young white short-haired male, evidently a person employed in the TSBD building, who was at the front entrance during the shooting yet went oddly unnoticed by everyone else congregated there?

Good observation. One wonders how many other instances there were of Truly "not-seeing someone", but failed to include in his report.

The truth is, We know from the photo and film evidence that Truly and Baker would have passed right by Prayer Man (and numerous other people) as they entered the building.

Saying "I saw no one there" is completely different from "I didn't see someone there."

Jeez.

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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[...]

Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,?

Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RREI wouldn't say

Dear Mr. Kelly,

I wouldn't say that the guy walking down the steps in that film is a "man," but a high school or college-aged "boy."

--Tommy :sun

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[...]

Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,?

Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RREI wouldn't say

Dear Mr. Kelly,

I wouldn't say that the guy walking down the steps in that film is a "man," but a high school or college-aged "boy."

--Tommy :sun

Mr. Tommy, but is it the same guy in the other film frames - the "Prayer Man"? And is it Oswald?

They are the questions,

BK

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[...]

Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,?

Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RREI wouldn't say

Dear Mr. Kelly,

I wouldn't say that the guy walking down the steps in that film is a "man," but a high school or college-aged "boy."

--Tommy :sun

Mr. Tommy, but is it the same guy in the other film frames - the "Prayer Man"? And is it Oswald?

They are the questions,

BK

Dear Mr. Kelly,

In my opinion, the boy who may or may not be walking down the steps is not Oswald and is not "Prayer Man."

Why do you think it is?

Sincerely,

--Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Keep up the good work, guys. This thread is brilliant.

I would caution everyone about trusting Holmes's account. We are not talking here about Sherlock.

His claim that Baker told Oz "I'll deal with you later", implying that Oz disobeyed Baker's order to wait around

is not supported by Baker or Truly, and we can be certain that

A/ it never happened and

B/ Oz never said it happened.

Moreover, if we compare Holmes's report with Kelley's report of that final interview

there are alarming discrepancies. I believe Kelley's report is an honest report

(& not just because he has a namesake (without the e) on the forum),

whereas Holmes appears to be confabulating, and including matters that were discussed

in Friday and Saturday's interrogations, which he had no doubt been briefed about by his good friend

Will Fritz.

You're right about Holmes, Ray. His report was written weeks after the interview he'd witnessed, and was not based on any notes. It's obvious 1) his memory was not very good, and 2) he'd added in stuff he'd heard from others. One of the major embarrassments in Bugliosi's book, IMO, is his propping up of Holmes' report to claim Oswald admitted being on an upper floor at the time of the shooting.

AS IF FRITZ WOULDN"T HAVE NOTICED SUCH A THING! LOL.

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[...]

Good luck with the door measurements, but I think that the second film of the man walking down the steps - should have a time attributed to it - and the figure further enhanced and details of the man brought out - is he wearing jeans - t-shirt under button shirt, white socks, does he have a coke in hand, etc,?

Www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDccfK-RREI wouldn't say

Dear Mr. Kelly,

I wouldn't say that the guy walking down the steps in that film is a "man," but a high school or college-aged "boy."

--Tommy :sun

Mr. Tommy, but is it the same guy in the other film frames - the "Prayer Man"? And is it Oswald?

They are the questions,

BK

Dear Mr. Kelly,

In my opinion, the boy walking down the steps is not Oswald and is not "Prayer Man."

Why do you think it is?

Sincerely,

--Tommy :sun

My question is the guy walking down the steps in the second film the same guy we are talking about - aka "Prayer Man," and if not why not?

You say its not, and I say okay, why not? They have the same features, right?

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