Thomas Graves Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Thomas, This is very impressive, especially when using Powerpoint rather than Photoshop and/or AfterEffects. Well done!!! Whoever this person, they clearly have a short sleeve shirt on. Gimp 2.8 suggests this figure cannot be Oswald, the shirt is far too tidy and appears closed from about the upper chest. An excellent piece of image adjustment. James. James, I think you meant to congratulate Robert P., not me. I'm the fly in the ointment here. I'm the spanner in the works. I'm arguing that Prayer Man is wearing a long sleeved shirt with the sleeves rolled down. I believe that the sleeve covering his right forearm is in the sun, making it appear to be lighter-colored in comparison to the rest of his shirt which is in the shade. I believe his right sleeve is not rolled up, but it is a few inches short of his wrist. So, James, I disagree with your assessment that the person is "clearly" wearing a short sleeve shirt. If the person was wearing a short sleeved shirt, he had very hairy arms. And the hair stopped a few inches from his wrist. I think Prayer Man might be Billy Lovelady wearing his long sleeved, mostly-red "plaid" shirt with the sleeves rolled down. Respectfully, --Tommy Before we started talking about how tall Prayer Man was and which step he was standing on, we were talking about whether or not he was wearing a long sleeved shirt. . Edited April 1, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thomas, I believe it is a moot point whether the person had long sleeves on. If his height is around 5" then whoever the person is he cannot be Oswald. I have been too busy today to follow it up, but on the wall, just where PM is there is a ledge or something. Is it possible he is not standing? That would make a world of difference. The height of the door has to be around 7' 6" to 8'. There is no way PM is just under 18" from the top of the door. If he is standing then PM cannot be Oswald. If you can establish PM is around 5' 10" then yes this again is an active argument. I mean you have an active argument in my eyes. I do not mean in your eyes - I accept what I have said may not be important to you - though to me it is a critical point. But if you cannot, then whether he is or is not wearing sleeves is a moot point. Like most on this forum I long for most of my life for a valid reason to dismantle the WC, but I am not going to ignore evidence that suggests this is not Oswald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Hi James, I'm not sure if any of this has been mentioned before, but it appears that for an old building like the TSBD, the entrance way had to have been remodeled at one time with more modern aluminum frame windows and doors. It would be unusual for an commercial aluminum door to made to a custom size - possible, of course, but unusual. They are and were, to my knowledge, standard at 84 inches - 7 feet spot on. If you used a door as an 84 inch ruler, how would that change your calculations? Tom Edited March 31, 2015 by Tom Hume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Short answer it might. My problem is that the height of the head to the top of the door - whatever the height of the door is - appears to be somewhere around 2 feet. If he is standing that would tend to eliminate him. But if he is crouching or sitting, that would make a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 I see. And the radiator inside is at about the level of PMs elbow. Believe it or not, I have a standard size radiator here at my house, I am 5 foot 10, and when I get down on my knees, the radiator is level with my elbow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Tom, I agree. And if that can be established that may well be a game changer. As you can see there is something not too far from where PM is positioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 "As you can see there is something not too far from where PM is positioned." I'm a little dense, James, I don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Tom I was referring to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hume Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) Thanks James - I just measured my kneeling height at 50 inches. This would put me 34 inches below an 84-inch door - a lot more than 2 feet. If we take the door height to be 84 inches, a 5 foot 9 person should be 15 inches from the top of the door. The rise on those steps has to be pretty close to 7 inches, so a 5 foot 9 person standing on the last step should be about 22 inches from the top of the door. 29 inches if on the next to the last step. Being on one of the steps would bring PM closer to what I assume is a Coke bottle your red line points to. Tom Edited March 31, 2015 by Tom Hume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 And that is the salient point Tom. If that is what we are seeing then PM could be much taller than we see in the image. And if that is the case then it is a totally different situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanessa Loney Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Apologies Ray. It's at jfkassassination forum photo gallery under William Allen Photo's Large on page 4. It's the last one on the page. I'll try and get my links issues sorted out and insert it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted March 31, 2015 Share Posted March 31, 2015 Thomas, I believe it is a moot point whether the person had long sleeves on. If his height is around 5" then whoever the person is he cannot be Oswald. I have been too busy today to follow it up, but on the wall, just where PM is there is a ledge or something. Is it possible he is not standing? That would make a world of difference. The height of the door has to be around 7' 6" to 8'. There is no way PM is just under 18" from the top of the door. If he is standing then PM cannot be Oswald. If you can establish PM is around 5' 10" then yes this again is an active argument. I mean you have an active argument in my eyes. I do not mean in your eyes - I accept what I have said may not be important to you - though to me it is a critical point. But if you cannot, then whether he is or is not wearing sleeves is a moot point. Like most on this forum I long for most of my life for a valid reason to dismantle the WC, but I am not going to ignore evidence that suggests this is not Oswald. Sorry, James. I don't understand your post. Are you saying that the person we've been calling Prayer Man is only about five feet tall? What exactly are you saying? That it might be Lovelady? Respectfully, --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 (edited) Stan Dane, over at ROKC, just keeps knocking them out of the Park. For your perusal: "There's a lot of activity and speculation going on over at ED in the PM thread about heights of different things and what not. Thought I'd join in on the fun. I just measured my head from top to bottom of my chin and it's almost exactly 11 in. When you consider picture angles, perspectives, other potential distortion vaiables, etc., this looks ballpark reasonable to me. In other words, it supports PM being LHO. Not the other way around." Edited April 1, 2015 by Robert Prudhomme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Stan Dane, over at ROKC, just keeps knocking them out of the Park. For your perusal: "There's a lot of activity and speculation going in over at ED in the PM thread about heights of different things and what not. Thought I'd join in on the fun. I just measured my head from top to bottom of my chin and it's almost exactly 11 in. When you consider picture angles, perspectives, other potential distortion vaiables, etc., this looks ballpark reasonable to me. In other words, it supports PM being LHO. Not the other way around." How tall was Billy Lovelady? --Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Thomas, The person standing by the walll - not the one in post 1747 - measures only 5'. As Tom Hume and I have been discussing, if that person is not standing uptight that would make a difference. If the height of the door is between 7' 3" to 8 ' it is clear this man is well below that height. The individual highlighted in the above post appears at least 6' when measured against the height of the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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