Oswald Leaving TSBD?

[Thomas Graves]

Hi Thomas

Here is the biggest puzzle, at least from my POV.

In the still you posted, Baker is behind the Stetson man and, at the speed he is travelling, perhaps 3-4 seconds away from being at the front door of the TSBD, with Truly (and Campbell) very close behind him. Prayer Man, who is assumed to be Oswald, will not see Baker, from his position at the top of the steps, until Baker is actually on the steps.

In the space of two or three seconds, how did Oswald get through the door and into the storage closet?

Robert,

In a recent post or a PM to me (can't remember which right now), Linda shows a frame from Darnell (?) which shows that the front door was already cracked open.

FWIW, if Oswald was Prayer Man, then he was innocent and regardless of when he could have seen Baker running towards or up the front steps, the fact that Baker was approaching the front entrance wouldn't have mattered to Oswald, IMHO, so the question of whether or not Oswald could see Baker coming his way is immaterial.

In a PM, Linda gave me a link to her fascinating photo album page at ROKC http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/photos/album?albumid=15889118 which not only shows that Prayer Man was probably holding a twin lens "reflex" camera, but also has the interesting statement made by 17-year-old TSBD employee Roy Lewis to the FBI on 3/18/64. Lewis stated that he was watching the motorcade from inside the vestibule and that although he was acquainted with Oswald, "He was not with me at the time that I heard the shots." Which seems like a very legalistic, technically-correct kind of a statement for him to make, which, in turn, leads me to believe that Oswald was inside the building (in the vestibule) with Lewis before the assassination, but then left him at the last second and went outside (probably with his twin lens "reflex" camera, the internal mirror of which reflected some of the direct sunlight back out through the camera's viewing lens, causing that lens to glow in Wiegman and Darnell / Couch).

I'm thinking that Lewis may have opened the door all the way for Oswald to get back in, out of courtesy, or that Lewis may have come outside (right after Darnell's camera just happened to stop filming that area) to see what had happened. Anyway, in either case the door could have been open enough for Oswald to scurry inside to retrieve his precious cheese sandwich or apple or Coke (Dr. pepper?) from the storage room near the front entrance, any of which which he just might have stashed there beforehand.

Here is Linda's post about Lewis on her "photo album" page on the ROKC website:

Here's Lewis' full statement:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1317&search=roy_edward+lewis#relPageId=691&tab=page

I disagree with Linda's statement: "Also, why would Lewis say: 'I stood by myself...' he was obviously with Lovelady, Shelley and others."

Lewis was not standing with Lovelady and Shelley, nor even necessarily with "others" during the shooting, but Oswald / Prayer Man may very well have been standing next to him in the vestibule until a few seconds before the motorcade passed by. We know that Lovelady and Shelley were standing outside the building on the front steps during the shooting. Roy Lewis said he was standing on the inside of the front entrance (in the "vestibule") during the shooting, i.e., on the other side of the glass from Lovelady, Shelley, Frazier, Prayer Man, and others.

PS Many researchers have confused 17-year-old Roy Lewis for 33-year-old Carl Jones, another black TSBD employee, who was standing on the front steps during the assassination (below Prayer Man).

From Robin Unger's JFK Assassination Blog:

Black TSBD employee Carl Jones is visible on the lower left edge of the steps in this Wiegman frame, taken a few seconds before the first shot rang out, but Roy Lewis isn't visible here because he's not only behind Prayer Man, but on the other side of the front door / window in the "vestibule."

--Tommy

Edited August 3, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Seriously, Thomas, PM looks quite relaxed standing in the corner at the top of the steps. Baker's total time, from the second he heard the last shot, until he rode his bike to the sidewalk, parked it and was inside the front of the TSBD, was only 20 seconds. From where he is in the still, until he is inside the door, is going to consume no more than 2-3 seconds.

Do you really think there is time for Lewis to open the door and for Oswald to not only scurry inside but duck into the closet under the stairs? After, of course, moving Frazier out of the way.

[Thomas Graves]

Seriously, Thomas, PM looks quite relaxed standing in the corner at the top of the steps. Baker's total time, from the second he heard the last shot, until he rode his bike to the sidewalk, parked it and was inside the front of the TSBD, was only 20 seconds. From where he is in the still, until he is inside the door, is going to consume no more than 2-3 seconds.

Do you really think there is time for Lewis to open the door and for Oswald to not only scurry inside but duck into the closet under the stairs? After, of course, moving Frazier out of the way.

Yes, Robert, I do.

That Oswald was a quick and furtive little devil.

Either that or Baker and / or Truly and / or Campbell and / or Reid encountered / saw Oswald in his "Prayer Man" position on the top step and changed their stories from first (Campbell and at least one unidentified "other" -- Reid? Truly? Baker?) seeing him in a ground floor storage room, to finally, Baker's and Truly's encountering him in the ... the second floor lunchroom! (With some "third or fourth floor" versions along the way.)

You know, Baker may have started running up the front steps but paused for some reason before going inside, giving that sneaky little Oswald more than enough time to run inside and grab his apple, or whatever.

Heck, Oswald might have opened the door for Baker, or strolled ahead of him in full view to the storage room where Baker might have asked him where the elevator or stairs to the top floors / roof were located, during which conversation Campbell and Truly and Reid might have strolled in and "seen" Oswald in the storage room.

Here's a wild idea. Maybe Oswald, "hip" to the assassination or "fake assassination attempt," was taking photos of the "Actors" (so to speak) and then Baker ran up to him on the steps and took his camera away! "Sorry, kid, I gotta confiscate your camera. Tell you what. Come on up with me to the second floor and I'll buy you a Coke."

--Tommy

Edited August 3, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

If you can consider that Baker paused on the steps for a period of time, can you consider that Baker did not go up the stairs right away but possibly went to the corner first, for like 2-3 minutes? And the reason Frazier and Molina did not see Baker enter the TSBD is because they were already inside the building when Baker went up the steps?

[Steven Gaal]

#2: From the New York Herald Tribune, written 11/22, published 11/23:

Mr. [Ochus V.] Campbell [vice-president of the TSBD] said, "Shortly after the shooting we raced back into the building. We had been outside watching the parade. We saw him (Oswald) in a small storage room on the ground floor. Then we noticed he was gone.” Mr Campbell added: "Of course he and the others were on their lunch hour but he did not have permission to leave the building and we haven't seen him since." // GRAVES

=======================================

So many 11/22 tales....,gaal

see http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16815&p=300521

===========================================================================

Steven GAAL

Posted 13 April 2015 - 10:21 PM

　

OV CAMPBELL dosent want the TSBD involved.

Grassy Knoll Witnesses : The JFK Assassination

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:xyYkR_DISEEJ:22november1963.org.uk/jfk-assassination-grassy-knoll-witnesses+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

??

22 November 1963: A Brief Guide to the JFK Assassination .... Campbell says he ran toward a grassy knoll to the west of the building, where he thought the ...

=========================

Molina, a TSBD employee, heard shots coming from west of the building.

??

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh6/pdf/WH6_Dougherty.pdf see page 373 MOLINA Afraid does not want to be involved.

HOLMES - Molina connection see Scully post this thread

http://educationforu...?showtopic=1097

=

The TACA case. How the government allowed arms and drug trades into Central America and intentionally looked the other way rather than prosecuting the mafia. This action in the 30s made Sam Carolla rich and set the stage for the infamous Marcello brothers and other in the New Orleans branch of the Mafia in the 50s and 60s. Who many believe were involved in the Kennedy assassinations. (SEE POST ABOVE # 83 video)

++++++++++++++++++

for link http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20291&p=298381 see 4 below

??

FERRIE RECRUITED OSWALD FOR ONI (FERRIE HAD CONTINUED NAVY-ONI CONNECTIONS POST ASSASSINATION)

ONI MONITORED ASSASSINATION per GRAVES ONI man (see post # 149 above)

ONI wanted cremated OSWALD

First of all, Mason Lankford’s father, John Mason Lankford Sr., was an employee of Temco in the early 1950s, suggesting a possible relationship with David Harold Byrd.

POST OFFICE HOLMES ONI CONNECTION SEE POST # 88 above // SEE MOLINA SUSPICIOUS BEHAVIOR POST # 78 above tis thread
ONI worked with United fruit since the 1920. (BOOK LINK BELOW)

Marguerite ONI connection via Uncle and husband and also the Amon Carter Family. (THESE CONNECTIONS SEE BELOW)

################

################

################

also see Husband Marguerite link

http://quixoticjoust...rch-ekdahl.html

also see Uncle Marguerite link

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21136&p=286218

]]]]]]]]]]

Marguerite Oswald worked as a receptionist for a Standard Fruit Company law firm.Marguerite Oswald's uncle's law partner did work for United Fruit. Marguerite Oswald's Uncle seems to have gotten Marguerite the receptionists job. Odd for Standard Fruit and United Fruit were until around WWIi were at loggerheads against each other. Could Marguerite Oswald been a United Fruit spy ? Marguerite worked in the home of AMON CARTER JR. Carter family connected to ONI via General Dynamics .

Amon Carter SR. bio

Besides American Airlines, he also was instrumental in General Dynamics and Bell Aircraft Corp. establishing plants near Fort Worth. Amon G. Carter Field was named for him in 1950.

==

SEE United Fruit / ONI connection below

Anthropological Intelligence: The Deployment and Neglect ...

https://books.google...isbn=0822389126

David H. Price - 2008 - Social ScienceThe U.S. O≈ce of Naval Intelligence (oni) secretly trained and deployed a ring of ... along the Gulf of Mexico coastlines of Mexico, British Honduras, and Belize.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]

The TACA operation of guns to Central American dictators run by the State Department and the mafia predates the creation of the CIA.

To help in the operation the State Department would tap ONI. Bill Weston's Spiders Web contends that the TSBD had a gun running operation.
Ex Navy man Molina TSBD employee may have been part of this.

Harold Byrd (owner TSBD building) was one of the three major owners of LTV. LTV was trying to develop a sea torpedo to air weapon system.

ONI would have been all over any of the LTV owners.

Harold Bird sat on the board of Dorchester Gas with Jack Crichton of Empire Trust. Empire Trust's private intelligence service had ONI connections.

POST OFFICE HOLMES ONI CONNECTION SEE POST # 88 above
ONI worked with United fruit since the 1920.

Marguerite ONI connection via Uncle , husband and also the Amon Carter Family

]]]]

It may be that ONI man Holmes is watching/reporting on in real time a CIA assassination operation run out of the ONI/TSBD building. (GAAL)

The shooting out of the TSBD is a classic example of covert operation compartmentalization.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Robert Prudhomme]

Is your job to distract threads on this forum, Steve?

[Thomas Graves]

If you can consider that Baker paused on the steps for a period of time, can you consider that Baker did not go up the stairs right away but possibly went to the corner first, for like 2-3 minutes? And the reason Frazier and Molina did not see Baker enter the TSBD is because they were already inside the building when Baker went up the steps?

Robert,

Not trying to be a "smart ass" here, but do you think Baker might have sprinted down to the corner to confer with a fellow officer about the pigeons?

Can you see Baker's wanting to confer with anyone other than another police officer?

Which police officers were near that corner with whom Baker could have conferred?

If he really did confer with them, why didn't they mention it in their statements / testimonies?

"Officer Baker warned me that he thought the shots had come from an upper floor of the TSBD. He said he was going in, and told me to keep my eyes out for any dirty rotten sniper trying to escape."

--Tommy

Edited August 3, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Steven Gaal]

Is your job to distract threads on this forum, Steve?

alt.conspiracy.jfk ›

Will the Real O.V. Campbell Please Stand up?

donald willis

3/4/10

Other recipients:

Texas School Book Depository VP Ochus V. Campbell was all over the place, literally, in his statements after the assassination. Perhaps because he knew and said too much to the NY Herald Tribune: "Shortly after the shooting we raced back into the

Texas School Book Depository VP Ochus V. Campbell was all over the

place, literally, in his statements after the assassination. Perhaps

because he knew and said too much to the NY Herald Tribune:

"Shortly after the shooting we raced back into the building. We saw

Oswald in a small storage room on the ground floor." (11/23/63)

Had he stuck to his guns, figuratively, he would have helped absolve

Oswald of any shooting that day--and relegated him to a minor role. a

mere Rosencrantz, simple Distractor of Cops, say, who gave the

shooters time to pack up their gear.

But lo & behold an alternate version of Campbell's actions appeared

the same day in the Dallas Mourning News:

"Campbell said he ran toward a grassy knoll west of the building where

he thought the sniper had hidden."

Notice it's not a direct quote here, though, hence carries less weight

than the NYHT version. But. well, if this version were true, then,

no, Campbell could not have been there with Truly & Baker to see

Oswald on the first floor.

But apparently the DMN version was not true. The testimony of others,

including Geneva Hine, may have led Campbell to change his tune again,

from "I'm a knoll cowhand" to "Back in the Building Again":

"He observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately

rushed into his building...."

Ah! back to square one? Not quite. The chorus has changed:

"[Campbell] added that he is not personally acquainted with [Oswald] &

has never seen him." (FBI interview of Campbell 11/24/63)

Backpedaling 1A, eh? Or, Two Ways of Discounting a First-Floor

Encounter with Oswald. One (DMN): Run fast, in the other direction.

Two (FBI): Run fast in the same direction, but say not just that you

did not see Oswald then & there, but that you *never* saw him. Never

say never....

Campbell, guilty with too many explanations.... Oswald, guilty of

being merely a first-floor pawn in the conspiracy....

dcw

Edited August 3, 2015 by Steven Gaal

[Thomas Graves]

Seriously, Thomas, PM looks quite relaxed standing in the corner at the top of the steps. Baker's total time, from the second he heard the last shot, until he rode his bike to the sidewalk, parked it and was inside the front of the TSBD, was only 20 seconds. From where he is in the still, until he is inside the door, is going to consume no more than 2-3 seconds.

Do you really think there is time for Lewis to open the door and for Oswald to not only scurry inside but duck into the closet under the stairs? After, of course, moving Frazier out of the way.

Yes, Robert, I do.

That Oswald was a quick and furtive little devil.

Either that or Baker and / or Truly and / or Campbell and / or Reid encountered / saw Oswald in his "Prayer Man" position on the top step and changed their stories from first (Campbell and at least one unidentified "other" -- Reid? Truly? Baker?) seeing him in a ground floor storage room, to finally, Baker's and Truly's encountering him in the ... the second floor lunchroom! (With some "third or fourth floor" versions along the way.)

You know, Baker may have started running up the front steps but paused for some reason before going inside, giving that sneaky little Oswald more than enough time to run inside and grab his apple, or whatever.

Heck, Oswald might have opened the door for Baker, or strolled ahead of him in full view to the storage room where Baker might have asked him where the elevator or stairs to the top floors / roof were located, during which conversation Campbell and Truly and Reid might have strolled in and "seen" Oswald in the storage room.

Here's a wild idea. Maybe Oswald, "hip" to the assassination or "fake assassination attempt," was taking photos of the "Actors" (so to speak) and then Baker ran up to him on the steps and took his camera away. "Sorry, kid, I gotta confiscate your camera. Tell you what. Come on up with me to the second floor lunchroom and I'll buy you a Coke!"

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Her lens is glowing like Prayer Man's:

[deleted by me because I've posted too many photos]

Edited August 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Bernie Laverick]

Is your job to distract threads on this forum, Steve?

alt.conspiracy.jfk ›

Will the Real O.V. Campbell Please Stand up?

donald willis

3/4/10

Other recipients:

Texas School Book Depository VP Ochus V. Campbell was all over the place, literally, in his statements after the assassination. Perhaps because he knew and said too much to the NY Herald Tribune: "Shortly after the shooting we raced back into the

Texas School Book Depository VP Ochus V. Campbell was all over the

place, literally, in his statements after the assassination. Perhaps

because he knew and said too much to the NY Herald Tribune:

"Shortly after the shooting we raced back into the building. We saw

Oswald in a small storage room on the ground floor." (11/23/63)

Had he stuck to his guns, figuratively, he would have helped absolve

Oswald of any shooting that day--and relegated him to a minor role. a

mere Rosencrantz, simple Distractor of Cops, say, who gave the

shooters time to pack up their gear.

But lo & behold an alternate version of Campbell's actions appeared

the same day in the Dallas Mourning News:

"Campbell said he ran toward a grassy knoll west of the building where

he thought the sniper had hidden."

Notice it's not a direct quote here, though, hence carries less weight

than the NYHT version. But. well, if this version were true, then,

no, Campbell could not have been there with Truly & Baker to see

Oswald on the first floor.

But apparently the DMN version was not true. The testimony of others,

including Geneva Hine, may have led Campbell to change his tune again,

from "I'm a knoll cowhand" to "Back in the Building Again":

"He observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately

rushed into his building...."

Ah! back to square one? Not quite. The chorus has changed:

"[Campbell] added that he is not personally acquainted with [Oswald] &

has never seen him." (FBI interview of Campbell 11/24/63)

Backpedaling 1A, eh? Or, Two Ways of Discounting a First-Floor

Encounter with Oswald. One (DMN): Run fast, in the other direction.

Two (FBI): Run fast in the same direction, but say not just that you

did not see Oswald then & there, but that you *never* saw him. Never

say never....

Campbell, guilty with too many explanations.... Oswald, guilty of

being merely a first-floor pawn in the conspiracy....

dcw

Steve Gaal said: "...德克萨斯州教科书存副总裁Ochus五坎贝尔是所有的地方，从字面上看，在刺杀后，他的发言。也许是因为他知道，说太多了纽约先驱论坛报：“不久之后的拍摄，我们赶回到 德克萨斯州教科书存副总裁Ochus五坎贝尔遍 地方，从字面上看，在刺杀后，他的发言。也许 因为他知道，说太多了纽约先驱论坛报 后不久的拍摄，我们赶回进入大楼。我们看到 奥斯瓦尔德在一楼的小储藏...."

Bob, the whole point of the H^L cult is to disrupt threads and steer them onto endless and utterly pointless discussions over tonsils teeth and Taiwan!

I just don't know how he gets away with it...

[Mark Knight]

Actually, Mr. Gaal's post #2191 is the most coherent thing I've seen from him in quite some time.

[Thomas Graves]

Seriously, Thomas, PM looks quite relaxed standing in the corner at the top of the steps. Baker's total time, from the second he heard the last shot, until he rode his bike to the sidewalk, parked it and was inside the front of the TSBD, was only 20 seconds. From where he is in the still, until he is inside the door, is going to consume no more than 2-3 seconds.

Do you really think there is time for Lewis to open the door and for Oswald to not only scurry inside but duck into the closet under the stairs? After, of course, moving Frazier out of the way.

Yes, Robert, I do.

That Oswald was a quick and furtive little devil.

Either that or Baker and / or Truly and / or Campbell and / or Reid encountered / saw Oswald in his "Prayer Man" position on the top step and changed their stories from first (Campbell and at least one unidentified "other" -- Reid? Truly? Baker?) seeing him in a ground floor storage room, to finally, Baker's and Truly's encountering him in the ... the second floor lunchroom! (With some "third or fourth floor" versions along the way.)

You know, Baker may have started running up the front steps but paused for some reason before going inside, giving that sneaky little Oswald more than enough time to run inside and grab his apple, or whatever.

Heck, Oswald might have opened the door for Baker, or strolled ahead of him in full view to the storage room where Baker might have asked him where the elevator or stairs to the top floors / roof were located, during which conversation Campbell and Truly and Reid might have strolled in and "seen" Oswald in the storage room.

Here's a wild idea. Maybe Oswald, "hip" to the assassination or "fake assassination attempt," was taking photos of the "Actors" (so to speak) and then Baker ran up to him on the steps and took his camera away. "Sorry, kid, I gotta confiscate your camera. Tell you what. Come on up with me to the second floor lunchroom and I'll buy you a Coke!"

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Her viewing lens is glowing like Prayer Man's. She might be shooting towards a light source inside the store, which, in combination with the sunlight being reflected off the store's window, would have the same effect on her viewing lens as Prayer Man's pointing his camera in the general direction of the sun had on his viewing lens.

[i've posted too many photos, so I'm deleting this one. You can see it in a more recent post, this thread. --T. Graves]

edited and bumped

More examples of Maier's glowing lens "selfies" can be found here. See 2/3 of the way down on the left, for example:

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22vivian+maier%22&rlz=1C1VFKA_enUS618US618&espv=2&biw=1093&bih=545&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMI_MfVk4iOxwIVQ52ICh2ONQW8&dpr=1.25

Edited August 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Vanessa Loney]

Isn't it perfectly possible for both encounters to have occurred? Baker runs up the steps seconds after the shots and encounters Oswald there. After that Oswald goes inside the TSBD and is seen by Occhus Campbell in the storage room when he (OC) returns to the building 'shortly' after the shots?

Tommy, why do you think Oswald went inside to get his lunch after the shots? Sorry, I've probably missed a lot.

I find it incredibly coincidental that Oswald said he had his lunch out on the steps with Shelley and lo and behold, there is an Oswald-type lunch left on the steps right next to where PM was standing.

Who else on the TSBD steps actually said they ate their lunch on the steps that day? Maybe Molina? IIRC all the rest claimed they ate before or after being on the steps.

I think it's not unreasonable to assume that whoever left that lunch on the steps actually ate out there. Otherwise it's an odd spot for someone to leave their rubbish if they'd eaten their lunch elsewhere. Why not dump it in the building's rubbish bin if they were going back inside?

I know I've got a bee in my bonnet about the lunch but it's one of those dot-connecting things that I think forms part of the whole picture and tends to confirm that Oswald is PM.

[Thomas Graves]

Isn't it perfectly possible for both encounters to have occurred? Baker runs up the steps seconds after the shots and encounters Oswald there. After that Oswald goes inside the TSBD and is seen by Occhus Campbell in the storage room when he (OC) returns to the building 'shortly' after the shots?

Tommy, why do you think Oswald went inside to get his lunch after the shots? Sorry, I've probably missed a lot.

I find it incredibly coincidental that Oswald said he had his lunch out on the steps with Shelley and lo and behold, there is an Oswald-type lunch left on the steps right next to where PM was standing.

Who else on the TSBD steps actually said they ate their lunch on the steps that day? Maybe Molina? IIRC all the rest claimed they ate before or after being on the steps.

I think it's not unreasonable to assume that whoever left that lunch on the steps actually ate out there. Otherwise it's an odd spot for someone to leave their rubbish if they'd eaten their lunch elsewhere. Why not dump it in the building's rubbish bin if they were going back inside?

I know I've got a bee in my bonnet about the lunch but it's one of those dot-connecting things that I think forms part of the whole picture and tends to confirm that Oswald is PM.

Hi Vanessa,

Good to hear from you again.

To answer your question -- I can't think of any other reason for him to go into that small storage room by the front door on his lunch break, and it was close to the front door! LOL Now, if they encountered him in the storage room back in the north west corner, as some researchers claim, that would be a different matter altogether. In that case he was probably there to get a Dr. Pepper!

Also, I'm now convinced that Prayer Man was holding a twin lens "reflex" camera (with a light-reflecting and transmitting "viewing lens") and therefore needed to have both hands free for its operation. If Prayer Man was Oswald and he'd only half eaten his cheese sandwich or his apple, he might have stashed them in that storage room right before he walked out onto the top step or "landing area" with his camera.

But all of this Prayer-Man-was-Oswald and he-had-his-camera-with-him raises a sticky issue -- wasn't Oswald's Imperial Reflex found at Ruth Paine's place? Edit: I've just read in Accessories After the Fact that the FBI, etc. apparently overlooked the camera at Ruth's place a few times, and Robert Oswald allegedly took it home with him from there on December 8, 1963, and turned it over to the FBI on February 24, 1964. But the allegation that Robert Oswald took the Imperial Reflex from Paine's house on December 8, 1963. is contradicted

--Tommy

In Accessories After the Fact, Sylvia Meagher quotes Ruth Paine's March 21, 1964, WC testimony as saying that Oswald once showed her a camera he had bought in Russia, and complained to her that he couldn't buy film for it in the U.S. because of a size difference, and Meagher goes on to suggest that since only two (actually three) photographs are known to have been taken in the U.S. with the (American made) Imperial Reflex camera -- the backyard backyard photos -- the camera Oswald was complaining about must have been the Imperial Reflex.

If Sylvia had done a little more research, she would have found out that the Imperial Reflex camera was made by a Chicago, Illinois-based company, and that Robert Oswald claimed that Lee had bought it in 1957 and had not taken it to Russia with him. He bought a much smaller camera, the Cuera-2 or Smerna-2, in Russia, so that must have been the one he was complaining about, not the Imperial Reflex.

https://books.google.com/books?id=9XEhAgAAQBAJ&pg=PT212&lpg=PT212&dq=oswald+%22imperial+reflex%22+paine&source=bl&ots=yIkkvQvWdC&sig=pHz6yCzP8qicqhMzzDIegEtpEyc&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAWoVChMI8pjKy6mOxwIVlDSICh0tqAU5#v=onepage&q=oswald%20%22imperial%20reflex%22%20paine&f=false

If it's true that Oswald couldn't buy film for his Imperial Reflex camera (but I doubt that because I think it used size "620" film which was readily available back then), it makes no sense that he would take it to the TSBD to get some photos of -- well, whatever.

After a little "research" on my part, I found out that Oswald owned at least three cameras which were taken from Paine's house after the assassination: 1 ) The American made Imperial Reflex 620 (taken by Robert on December 8), 2 ) an American made Stereo Realist novelty camera (it took stereo pictures), 3 ) a Russian made Cuera-2 or Smerna-2 35mm camera, and possibly a fourth camera -- the infamous Minox "spy camera".

BTW, It's interesting to note that Marina, in her WC testimony, said the camera was black.

An FBI report claims she told them it was grayish in color, like aluminium.

It was silver-grey:

Final thought for now: If Prayer Man had been holding this camera in Wiegman and Darnell / Couch, I think its light color would have been highly visible in those films.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

From what I recall, two cameras were found at the Paine residence by DPD; the Russian camera and an American-made camera called a Stereo Realist. The Imperial Reflex camera showed up about three months after the assassination, in the hands of brother Robert Oswald, coincidentally about the time it was shown the Stereo Realist could not be linked to the BYP's. There was also a rare and expensive Minolta "spy" camera, with a serial number only available in Europe at that time, but it magically morphed into a Minolta light meter; much to everyone's relief.

I would question, with the evidence available to me, Sylvia Meagher's claim the BYP's were taken with the Russian camera, as there is evidence the film these photos were exposed on was processed at a "photomat"; one of the outlets popular in those days for cheap and fast photo developing. As Oswald was unable to find film for this camera, and the photomats were likely only able to process popular sizes of film, it is highly unlikely film from the Russian camera was developed at a photomat.

This would hardly seem to be a detail any intelligent conspirator would overlook.