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William Kelly

Oswald Leaving TSBD?

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17 hours ago, Robin Unger said:

Where is Frazier in Wiegman ?

is he also up against the glass, hidden in the shadows ?

wiegman_crop3.jpg

 

In Wiegman perhaps a faint face can be noticed between Shelley and Lovelady

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On 4/17/2017 at 3:38 AM, Michael Walton said:

Andrej the guy with one leg down on  the  lower step is that supposed  to  be  PM or BL?

I agree with the  person  who said hat and tie man in Altgens is Shelley. The guy  in photo  looks older and  has a  hat too and looks beefier. 

Dear Michael,

Details, details, details.  Which frame from which film are you talking about?

"The lower step" ?   (Never mind.  I think I know what you're talking about. The lower upper step, right?  --  LOL)

 

Your question: Is the guy with one leg down on the step down on the upper lower upper step "PM or BL?"

 

My fair and balanced answers:

 

1 )  Some people say the reason Prayer Man (standing by himself in the upper left corner) looks so short in comparison with 6' 1" Frazier is because he's standing one step lower than Frazier. 

 

2 )  Some people (not necessarily the same as those, above) claim that in the smaller frame (the one without the cars in the foreground) of the two-frame Weigman GIF, Lovelady is not leaning forward (as I claim), but is in the process of leaving the steps in order to "follow the limo down Elm Street with Bill Shelley".

 

--  Tommy :sun

 

 

Edited by Thomas Graves

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On 4/17/2017 at 0:06 PM, Thomas Graves said:

Dear Michael,

Details, details, details.  Which frame from which film are you talking about?

"The lower step" ?   (Never mind.  I think I know what you're talking about. The lower upper step, right?  --  LOL)

 

Your question: Is the guy with one leg down on the step down on the upper lower upper step "PM or BL?"

 

My fair and balanced answers:

 

1 )  Some people say the reason Prayer Man (standing by himself in the upper left corner) looks so short in comparison with 6' 1" Frazier is because he's standing one step lower than Frazier. 

 

2 )  Some people (not necessarily the same as those, above) claim that in the smaller frame (the one without the cars in the foreground) of the two-frame Weigman GIF, Lovelady isn't leaning forward (as I claim he is), but that he's in the process of walking dpwn the steps in order to "follow the limo down Elm Street with Bill Shelley".

 

--  Tommy :sun

 

 

severely edited and bumped for Mike Walton

Edited by Thomas Graves

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On 4/15/2017 at 3:41 AM, Andrej Stancak said:

 

Mr. Dale Myers reconstructed the time axes of different films, and assumed it was Wiegman's frame 14/15 which matched with Altgens6. However, I doubt Myers's time reconstruction at this particular point for a very simple reason: we see Carl Jones viewing east in Altgens6 but to the west in Wiegman's frame 14 or 15. Of course, the image quality of Groden's version of Wiegman's film available to me is very poor to determine the Mr. Jones's gaze axis. Anyway, I wonder what are the opinions of forum members about Carl Jones viewing towards the Tripple Underpass in frame 14/15 and eastwards in Altgens6.

 

wiegman_14.jpg

 

 

Andrej,

Myers didn't assume anything.

You are wise to doubt his timeline.

No opinion necessary, just a matter of excised frames.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Andrej,

Myers didn't assume anything.

You are wise to doubt his timeline.

No opinion necessary, just a matter of excised frames.

 

 

 

Chris:

sure, Mr. Myers correlated Wiegman's frame 15 with Z-frame 257, it was myself who assumed (based on Mr. Myers's timeline) that the frame Z-255 would be Wiegman's frame 14 or 15.

Would you like to comment on the excised frames? Would it matter Zapruder's film or Wiegman's film or both? The temporal coordination of Altgens6 and Wiegman's film is essential for reconstruction of Prayer Man and other people in the doorway.

 

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On 4/20/2017 at 0:05 AM, Andrej Stancak said:

Chris:

sure, Mr. Myers correlated Wiegman's frame 15 with Z-frame 257, it was myself who assumed (based on Mr. Myers's timeline) that the frame Z-255 would be Wiegman's frame 14 or 15.

Would you like to comment on the excised frames? Would it matter Zapruder's film or Wiegman's film or both? The temporal coordination of Altgens6 and Wiegman's film is essential for reconstruction of Prayer Man and other people in the doorway.

 

Andrej,

If Carl Jones was looking eastward in Altgen's 6, what would be an event/sound that would cause him to look westward?

Answer this question and you might begin to understand the Myer's frame sync deception.

 

Edited by Chris Davidson

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14 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

Andrej,

If Carl Jones was looking eastward in Altgen's 6, what would be the next event/sound that would cause him to look westward?

Answer this question and you might begin to understand the Myer's frame sync deception.

 

Well, it would be a gun shot coming from the west, wouldn't it? 

I am not sure in my previous guess that frame 1 in Wiegman's film could coincide with Altgens6, and will pursue the thing further with a new version of the doorway model before making a more qualified guess. The problem is that W-frame 1 shows Carl Jones with an appropriate body orientation relative to Altgens6 but Billy Lovelady is not at the spot where he should be if his position in W-1 is identical to Altgens6.

 

 

Edited by Andrej Stancak

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Wiegman composite.

In Wiegman the bystanders were lined up in a row, from the traffic light across to the corner of the tsbd

Wiegman_composite.jpg

steps2.jpg

wiegman_doorway.jpg

Edited by Robin Unger

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In Altgens 6 Lovelady was standing next to the hand rail which is where we see him in Wiegman.

he only appears to be closer to Carl Jones because Altgens was using  a 105mm telephoto lens which produced a forshortening  effect in the photo.

 

ALTSCAN3.jpg

 

 

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Robin,

I can appreciate what you are saying and the telephoto lens and all, yet this image from Hughes shows that figure closer to the left wall than center handrail.

It's as if he moves to his left throughout.

The bottom right corner of the image is Lovelady not very long after the Hughes image - yet no one stated that he moved from the corner to the middle, only Wesley who claims he was a few steps below him..

It would also appear that Prayerman is directly behind Lovelady in Hughes, or that person is not Lovelady but Oswald/Prayerman, and he simply steps back into the shadows...

Thoughts?

5939df0cddba5_HughesimageofLoveladyorOswaldinWestcornerwithPMoverlay.thumb.jpg.9dcce0776ff4c1675910242ad3b1a2ce.jpg

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