David Morales

[B. A. Copeland]

22 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

Ya mean the picture of Bush in Dealy Plaza on 11/22/63 was photo shopped?  I've thought so for a while.  But why did he and Nixon spend the night before there?  Such a coincidence with Dulles and GHWB's daddy Prescott in the big picture.  Just food for thought.  I mean daddy financed Nixon too.  And George was a financier of operation 40.  Strange coincidences.  But no proof of course.  Loose lips sink ships.  Angleton "was too smart to write anything down"

Well...you're gonna have to dismantle this:

http://www.oswaldinthedoorway.com/2014/07/yep-thats-definitely-george-bush-im.html

Oh, Larry I did mean to ask, what in the world do you make of GHWB having the CIA bldg. named after him? I thought that was a pretty big deal! I mean any reason why that decision was made? What did GHWB do to earn such an honor? I do apologize for tossing these questions your way but they're just coming my way as I reflect on GHWB and the JFK issue itself.

Edited November 15, 2017 by B. A. Copeland

[Ron Bulman]

16 minutes ago, B. A. Copeland said:

Well...you're gonna have to dismantle this:

http://www.oswaldinthedoorway.com/2014/07/yep-thats-definitely-george-bush-im.html

Oh, Larry I did mean to ask, what in the world do you make of GHWB having the CIA bldg. named after him? I thought that was a pretty big deal! I mean any reason why that decision was made? What did GHWB do to earn such an honor? I do apologize for tossing these questions your way but they're just coming my way as I reflect on GHWB and the JFK issue itself.

Ha!  Thanks!  I can dig it man.

Since you address Mr. Hancock, and this is the Morales thread...  I need to clean my desk and find that e-mail address.  Regarding another thread where he mentioned him possibly being the third party on a fishing trip with Harvey and Roselli off the coast of Florida in the spring of 63.  But it's a busy time of year for him.  Wish I could be there if he possibly addresses this issue.. 

[Larry Hancock]

Gentlemen, yes its pretty busy but I think I can handle this...first on the building name question, I think its important to note that the name was given in the 1999 intelligence authorization act,  after Bush had been both Director and President, certainly a first for the CIA who has not had its former senior officers achieve all that much political success or recognition.  Also Bush was well liked within the Agency as he did not try to massively reform it as some former Directors had, and for that matter Bush actually launched fewer major covert CIA operations initiatives than virtually any of his predecessors, leaning more to intel and analysis than covert action.  Of course that may have been because he was so tied up with overt military action but it is interesting and its a point I make in Shadow Warfare.  General Eisenhower was far more into covert operations than Bush was...as an example.

On Morales, actually Bill Simpich and I will be speaking on Staff D and ZR/RIFLE at the conference and we will be talking about the link between Morales and Harvey and equally about the link between Harvey and Angleton and Morales and Angleton given that Angleton was deeply into Cuban intelligence, worked with Moarales' AMOT group at one point and was very close to Harvey and his new assassination project which ended up restarting ZR/RIFLE with Roselli.  My speculation is that Harvey did meet with both Roselli and Morales in Florida in the spring of 63.  Its also important to appreciate that Harvey carried out his Staff D role though much of 1963 and Staff D was very much involved in Mexico City, as Bill will be detailing.

 

 

 

[David Andrews]

Perhaps it's not for what GHWB did as president, but for what he fostered as vice-president. 

Interesting to speculate on who, if anyone, the building would be named for absent GHWB.

Edited November 15, 2017 by David Andrews

[B. A. Copeland]

On 11/15/2017 at 5:44 AM, Larry Hancock said:

Gentlemen, yes its pretty busy but I think I can handle this...first on the building name question, I think its important to note that the name was given in the 1999 intelligence authorization act,  after Bush had been both Director and President, certainly a first for the CIA who has not had its former senior officers achieve all that much political success or recognition.  Also Bush was well liked within the Agency as he did not try to massively reform it as some former Directors had, and for that matter Bush actually launched fewer major covert CIA operations initiatives than virtually any of his predecessors, leaning more to intel and analysis than covert action.  Of course that may have been because he was so tied up with overt military action but it is interesting and its a point I make in Shadow Warfare.  General Eisenhower was far more into covert operations than Bush was...as an example.

On Morales, actually Bill Simpich and I will be speaking on Staff D and ZR/RIFLE at the conference and we will be talking about the link between Morales and Harvey and equally about the link between Harvey and Angleton and Morales and Angleton given that Angleton was deeply into Cuban intelligence, worked with Moarales' AMOT group at one point and was very close to Harvey and his new assassination project which ended up restarting ZR/RIFLE with Roselli.  My speculation is that Harvey did meet with both Roselli and Morales in Florida in the spring of 63.  Its also important to appreciate that Harvey carried out his Staff D role though much of 1963 and Staff D was very much involved in Mexico City, as Bill will be detailing.

 

 

 

I can't tell you how much I look forward to you and Simpich to speak on that! I smell a book coauthored by you two...pronto! Thanks as always Larry for your insight into this case! I think its also interesting that it was, according to the record, Angleton and Harvey who met with Peter Wright concerning basically....well how to frame communists as well as assassination (which really did come in handy during the fall of '63 ironically enough...). I also mention that Jim D (Destiny Betrayed 2nd Ed.) mentioned that Angleton supervised an anti-communist(?) assassination team headed by Boris Pash? Please correct me if I'm wrong. Seems like Angleton and Harvey were much closer than we think. I could be wrong but it is interesting nonetheless.

Edited November 16, 2017 by B. A. Copeland

[Larry Hancock]

Definitely Angleton and Harvey were much closer than most folks think; I really recommend the most recent bio on Harvey which goes into this at some length, including the ongoing correspondence between the two men and the letters suggesting they shared a secret. I develop a good deal of this in NEXUS, including the evidence suggesting Angleton was far more involved in Cuban counter intelligence than is generally discussed.  Its been my proposition for some time that it was the combination of Angleton, who knew of the JFK backchannel talks, and Harvey, with his contacts at JM/WAVE - centering on Morales - that was the driving force in what developed as the attack on JFK in Dallas. With the experience, connections and common motives of those two  it was an extremely dangerous combination.

 

[Paul Brancato]

Larry - are you referring to Morley's book on Angleton? Or is there a new bio on Harvey?

what do you make of Helms? Is he in this loop?

 

[David Andrews]

Ted Shackley at JM/WAVE in the loop?

[Larry Hancock]

The book is Flawed Patriot

https://www.amazon.com/Flawed-Patriot-Rise-Legend-Harvey/dp/1574889915

As far as in the loop, Shackley was aware of some of Harvey's operations but not fully read into the Castro assassination things with Roselli,  beyond that there is no sign the two were close and many indicators that Morales operated on his own very possibly wearing a couple of hats including Staff D work in MC where there was a standalone JM WAVE substation.

As to Helms, nope and a lot of indications that Harvey did not like him at all and for that matter felt he had been put out on a limb with ZR/RIFLE and hung out to dry, which is why he took some of notes with him when he left.  One of the very few Agency folks he seems to have actually connected with personally at a senior level was Angleton.

 

 

[Ron Bulman]

1 hour ago, Larry Hancock said:

The book is Flawed Patriot

https://www.amazon.com/Flawed-Patriot-Rise-Legend-Harvey/dp/1574889915

As far as in the loop, Shackley was aware of some of Harvey's operations but not fully read into the Castro assassination things with Roselli,  beyond that there is no sign the two were close and many indicators that Morales operated on his own very possibly wearing a couple of hats including Staff D work in MC where there was a standalone JM WAVE substation.

As to Helms, nope and a lot of indications that Harvey did not like him at all and for that matter felt he had been put out on a limb with ZR/RIFLE and hung out to dry, which is why he took some of notes with him when he left.  One of the very few Agency folks he seems to have actually connected with personally at a senior level was Angleton.

Wish I was there tomorrow and Saturday.  Interesting note, Flawed patriot was published by Potomac Books of, of all places, (I didn't know existed) Dulles, Virginia.  I should re read it, don't remember a Harvey - Morales connection in it, but it's been 6-7-8? years and the possibility is intriguingly likely.  

 

Edited November 17, 2017 by Ron Bulman

[Larry Hancock]

Ron, Flawed Patriot deals with the Angleton and Harvey relationship....the Morales connections are from me based on other associations and activities entirely, not something in that book.

[B. A. Copeland]

22 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Definitely Angleton and Harvey were much closer than most folks think; I really recommend the most recent bio on Harvey which goes into this at some length, including the ongoing correspondence between the two men and the letters suggesting they shared a secret. I develop a good deal of this in NEXUS, including the evidence suggesting Angleton was far more involved in Cuban counter intelligence than is generally discussed.  Its been my proposition for some time that it was the combination of Angleton, who knew of the JFK backchannel talks, and Harvey, with his contacts at JM/WAVE - centering on Morales - that was the driving force in what developed as the attack on JFK in Dallas. With the experience, connections and common motives of those two  it was an extremely dangerous combination.

 

Thanks a ton Larry.

Edited November 17, 2017 by B. A. Copeland

[B. A. Copeland]

Speaking of Morales (back on topic lol), has anyone reached out to any surviving member of his family in recent years? (I'm thinking within the 2000's but specifically, 2010-2017 say?)

Edited November 22, 2017 by B. A. Copeland

[Larry Hancock]

Family members have been contacted over the years, unfortunately the last researcher contacts of a few years ago - when the claims of Morales being at the Ambassador hotel were investigated and rebutted - appear to have pretty much closed off that angle, even though they were cooperative at the time. At this point in time the things they could comment on such as his assignments, his and their travels have been pretty well documented and corroborated.  Of course we do have a good amount of commentary from his friend Reuben, who shared as pretty much all he had heard from David, certainly in the areas we are concerned about. 

[Mathias Baumann]

6 hours ago, Larry Hancock said:

Family members have been contacted over the years, unfortunately the last researcher contacts of a few years ago - when the claims of Morales being at the Ambassador hotel were investigated and rebutted - appear to have pretty much closed off that angle, even though they were cooperative at the time. At this point in time the things they could comment on such as his assignments, his and their travels have been pretty well documented and corroborated.  Of course we do have a good amount of commentary from his friend Reuben, who shared as pretty much all he had heard from David, certainly in the areas we are concerned about. 

Larry,

do you know if anyone who knew him personally ever mentioned a scar over his left eye?