Heavy Set, Middle-Aged Man Put in Police Car …

[Thomas Graves]

For Robert, Tommy, and general interest,

below is a Murray photo from Robin's site with 2 hard-hat men and a light colored station wagon in the intersection of Houston and Elm. The Hard Hat man in the distance with the police officers is likely Brennan.

Wish we could see more detail of the driver.

Richard,

Thanks for posting this photograph. Notice the two fedora-wearing (one dark, one fairly light with a wide, black, band) "floating heads" behind the Rambler and just to the left of the hard hat guy in the background (Brennan?). I am almost certain that those two guys are the "Rip Robertson" and "John Adrian O'Hare" characters who were photographed earlier while standing on the Houston Street sidewalk, watching JFK and Jackie pass by.

Between that photograph and this one, these two guys were "captured," I believe, in a Murray photo which shows them traversing the end of the Grassy Knoll slope nearest the TSBD, with, ironically, Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig standing in the street, looking to his right in their direction, and (also ironically) with a possible Oswald "double" walking with another guy down the Elm Street extension in the far background, framed by the dark-suited "Robertson" and "O'Hare" figures who are walking in the direction of the TSBD and who, therefore, have their backs to the camera.

Regarding the other people in the top photo, this post, I used to think that the tall guy wearing a white hat behind and just a little to the right of the "Brennan" figure was just an interested bystander who was wearing a strange baseball cap, but now I think it's a white-hatted policeman (I finally noticed the angles of the hat and the badge on it) , and I'm wondering if it's W. E. Barnett, the policeman who said he spoke with Brennan right after the assassination and who, according to Brennan, might have taken him to a "Mr. Sorrels" (Police Inspector Sawyer?) for Brennan to speak with "in an automobile sitting in front of the Texas Book Store [sic]." (Robert Howard recently informed me on the Brennan's Suspicious Car thread that Secret Service man Forrest Sorrels claimed that he didn't arrive at the TSBD until 12:55, and that he entered it through the rear door.)

Trying to come around kinda full circle on this: Could it be that the leaning-over "white hat" we see speaking to Brennan (?) and another white-hatted policeman through an open police car door in front of the TSBD (in a great photo you recently posted in post #21, this thread) is the white hat of Officer W. E. Barnett? (A Basic Question: Was Barnett wearing a white hat that day?)

BTW, does anyone know the identity of the other, more obvious policeman standing on the far right in the top Murray photo (this post)?

--Tommy

Edited, augmented, qualified with the words I believe, and bumped...

Double Take: Could the "floating head" nearest "Brennan" in the top photo actually be Secret Service man Forrest Sorrels??? It does kinda look like him. Could the other, sunglasses-wearing and partially visible, "floating head" next to him be that of the one and only E. Howard Hunt? Hmmm. OMG! The visible part of his head looks like him and the spooky-looking "Hunt" guy crossing Elm Street in the famous Cancellare photo was wearing a fairly light colored fedora with a wide, black band...

My head is starting to spin.

________________________________________________________________

________________________________________________________________

News Flash: OMG, look what I just found on youtube -- "Amos Euins and Howard Brennan" getting into a car in front of the TSBD!

I'm guessing that that car was Police Inspector Sawyer's "command post" where he made quick interviews of witnesses before his officers escorted them to the Sheriff's Department for more detailed statements, just like he said in his WC testimony. In fact, the older policeman type (Sawyer was 61 when he gave his WC testimony in early 1964) wearing the fancy uniform (notice the stripes or whatever on his lower left sleeve) who quickly opens the door for Euins looks like Inspector Sawyer. And the people next to the car on the sidewalk are the same people "captured" standing next to the car in post #21, this thread, with "Brennan" sitting next to "Sawyer" in the car! Note also that Euins get's into the back seat, just like he's shown sitting in the bottom photo.

(click circular "replay" arrow at the bottom left corner)

This bottom photo was posted by Robin Unger on the jfkassassinationforum website (from Trask's Pictures of the Pain). Sorry it's so big. Click on it to eliminate distortion.

Brennan obviously sat up front, next to Sawyer.

From the eight-second video clip (above, this post), it looks like Brennan was a pretty short guy. Hmmm.

it's very interesting, isn't it, that in his WC testimony, Sawyer couldn't give a physical description of this most important witness (Brennan) who supposedly told Sawyer that the shooter was a "white male, 5'10, 165 pounds (but "slender"???), and about 30 years old."

But no!

All Sawyer could remember about this critically-important witness was that he was white , male , and about thirty years old and that he might have been working in the TSBD.

Working in the TSBD while wearing a hard hat??

Hmmm.

Doesn't it seem that Sawyer, a police Inspector, should have been able to remember such an important and unusual witness as Brennan, and doesn't it seem strange that he couldn't remember his name?

Let's face it, Brennan was unusual. He was short , he was wearing light colored (khaki?) work clothes, he was wearing a freakin' hard hat for cryin' out loud, and oh yeah, he claimed that he'd just seen a man shoot the President of the United States. In my book, that makes Brennan very unusual indeed, and, therefore, uhhh..., kinda unforgettable.

[Awww, come on Tommy, poor old Inspector Sawyer was 47 years old when he gave his WC testimony in April of 1964, some four and one-half months after the assassination. And, anyway he was overwhelmed that afternoon of 11/22/63. You can't expect him to remember every little detail!]

Well, I tell you what. I'm starting to agree with Sean Murphy on this.

I don't think Sawyer got the above description of the shooter from Brennan (who couldn't have gotten a good enough view of a sixth floor shooter from that angle, anyway, to give an accurate description of the guy's height and weight, so why guess?). I think he got it from Baker or Truly after they came down from the roof.

And Heaven Knows where they got their information.

Was it a description of someone they saw on the fourth floor who was wearing a brown or tan jacket?

Or was it from "a higher, more omniscient source"?

In Brennan's written statement to the police later, he said the shooter was 165 to 175 pounds. Hmmm. 5'10"?, 175 lbs?, "slender?" (meaning, perhaps, "not fat"? ; meaning, perhaps, "athletic built"?). Thirty years old? We're getting pretty darn close to Mexico City Mystery Man's physical description here, or, even better, that of that 'ole "defector" to the USSR, Robert Webster, whose physical characteristics Oswald somehow magically "took on" in certain highly-classified documents and communications while living in Russia, compliments, apparently, of J.J.Angleton and his like.

Bumped for the last time tonight. I promise.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Richard Hocking]

That was a nice find on the Youtube video, Tommy. It puts an exclamation point on the ID of Sawyer and Brennan sitting in the squad car "command post" in front of the TSBD.

Sawyer is heard on the Police tape between 12:43 and 12:45 giving a description of the suspect. We also know Sawyer did not get back down from the 4th floor before 12:37-12:38. So the Brennan interview in the Command Post has to happen very close to 12:40.

Very near this time frame (12:40), Roger Craig sees his suspect come down the hill and get into the Rambler Station Wagon.

Roger Craig: ... he was a white male in his twenties, five nine, five eight, something like that; about 140 to 150; had kind of medium brown sandy hair... you know, it was like it'd been blown... you know, he'd been in the wind or something-- it was all wild-looking; had on blue trousers...

David Belin: What shade of blue? Dark blue, medium or light?

Roger Craig: No; medium, probably; I'd say medium. And, a light tan shirt, as I remember it.

After seeing the Station Wagon drive away on Elm St, Craig goes to the Command Post. But he does not talk to Sawyer. Could the reason be Sawyer is occupied in the squad car interviewing Brennan? Instead, Craig gives his description of the departing suspect to a "Secret Service" Man.

Craig's description of this fake agent:

"... There was a man standing on the steps of the Book Depository Building and he turned to me and said, "I'm with the Secret Service." This man was about 40 years old, sandy-haired with a distinct cleft in his chin. He was well-dressed in a gray business suit."

In addition to Allen and Murray snapping photos of this area, there were several cameramen shooting video. Cook, Sanderson, and the man Todd Vaughn identified as possibly being Peringer were all filming in front of the TSBD at this time. And no doubt, there were others. The odds seem high that some photographer would have captured the encounter between Craig and the "Secret Service" man.

[Thomas Graves]

That was a nice find on the Youtube video, Tommy. It puts an exclamation point on the ID of Sawyer and Brennan sitting in the squad car "command post" in front of the TSBD.

Sawyer is heard on the Police tape between 12:43 and 12:45 giving a description of the suspect. We also know Sawyer did not get back down from the 4th floor before 12:37-12:38. So the Brennan interview in the Command Post has to happen very close to 12:40.

Very near this time frame (12:40), Roger Craig sees his suspect come down the hill and get into the Rambler Station Wagon.

Roger Craig: ... he was a white male in his twenties, five nine, five eight, something like that; about 140 to 150; had kind of medium brown sandy hair... you know, it was like it'd been blown... you know, he'd been in the wind or something-- it was all wild-looking; had on blue trousers...

David Belin: What shade of blue? Dark blue, medium or light?

Roger Craig: No; medium, probably; I'd say medium. And, a light tan shirt, as I remember it.

After seeing the Station Wagon drive away on Elm St, Craig goes to the Command Post. But he does not talk to Sawyer. Could the reason be Sawyer is occupied in the squad car interviewing Brennan? Instead, Craig gives his description of the departing suspect to a "Secret Service" Man.

Craig's description of this fake agent:

"... There was a man standing on the steps of the Book Depository Building and he turned to me and said, "I'm with the Secret Service." This man was about 40 years old, sandy-haired with a distinct cleft in his chin. He was well-dressed in a gray business suit."

In addition to Allen and Murray snapping photos of this area, there were several cameramen shooting video. Cook, Sanderson, and the man Todd Vaughn identified as possibly being Peringer were all filming in front of the TSBD at this time. And no doubt, there were others. The odds seem high that some photographer would have captured the encounter between Craig and the "Secret Service" man.

Thanks, Richard.

Nice tie-in.

I'll keep my eyes out for him.

Also, Your time stamping (around 12:40) the photo and film clip of Euins and Brennan in Sawyer's "command car" may help us understand the identities and movements of other people "captured" in them..

--Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

That was a nice find on the Youtube video, Tommy. It puts an exclamation point on the ID of Sawyer and Brennan sitting in the squad car "command post" in front of the TSBD.

Sawyer is heard on the Police tape between 12:43 and 12:45 giving a description of the suspect. We also know Sawyer did not get back down from the 4th floor before 12:37-12:38. So the Brennan interview in the Command Post has to happen very close to 12:40.

Very near this time frame (12:40), Roger Craig sees his suspect come down the hill and get into the Rambler Station Wagon.

Roger Craig: ... he was a white male in his twenties, five nine, five eight, something like that; about 140 to 150; had kind of medium brown sandy hair... you know, it was like it'd been blown... you know, he'd been in the wind or something-- it was all wild-looking; had on blue trousers...

David Belin: What shade of blue? Dark blue, medium or light?

Roger Craig: No; medium, probably; I'd say medium. And, a light tan shirt, as I remember it.

After seeing the Station Wagon drive away on Elm St, Craig goes to the Command Post. But he does not talk to Sawyer. Could the reason be Sawyer is occupied in the squad car interviewing Brennan? Instead, Craig gives his description of the departing suspect to a "Secret Service" Man.

Craig's description of this fake agent:

"... There was a man standing on the steps of the Book Depository Building and he turned to me and said, "I'm with the Secret Service." This man was about 40 years old, sandy-haired with a distinct cleft in his chin. He was well-dressed in a gray business suit."

In addition to Allen and Murray snapping photos of this area, there were several cameramen shooting video. Cook, Sanderson, and the man Todd Vaughn identified as possibly being Peringer were all filming in front of the TSBD at this time. And no doubt, there were others. The odds seem high that some photographer would have captured the encounter between Craig and the "Secret Service" man.

Thanks, Richard.

Nice tie-in.

I'll keep my eyes out for him.

Also, Your time stamping (around 12:40) the photo and film clip of Euins and Brennan in Sawyer's "command car" may help us understand the identities and movements of other people "captured" in them..

--Tommy

Richard,

I have a little question for you.

Did you ever figure out who the "heavy set, middle-aged man" was who was put in a police car?

Thanks,

--Tommy

Edited December 9, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

[...]

Willis photo 15 shows a group of people standing in the intersection of Houston and Elm with the Dal-Tex building in the background. On the far right of the photo, there is a man holding a 16 mm camera facing the TSBD.

[...]

Richard,

I'm wondering if the "40-ish, gray-business-suited, sandy-haired 'Secret Service' agent" who took Roger Craig's report of Oswald's getting into the Rambler station wagon, per your post #32 this thread, could be the gray-business-suited, sandy-haired man with his back to the camera in the middle of Willis 15 (above).

I wonder if this gray-suited guy in Willis 15 shows up in any other photos or films?

It would be nice to know if he had a cleft chin.

--Tommy

Edited December 9, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[James Richards]

Didn't Roger Craig later identify Edgar Eugene Bradley to Jim Garrison as the man who claimed to be a Secret Service agent.

[Thomas Graves]

Didn't Roger Craig later identify Edgar Eugene Bradley to Jim Garrison as the man who claimed to be a Secret Service agent.

Thanks for that, James.

Here's a photo of sandy-haired Bradley being arrested, in 1967 as a result of the Garrison Investigation, while wearing a grey business suit. It looks to me like he has a cleft chin, too. (Click on the photo to see what I mean.)

Here's another one from eBay:

Very interesting!

--Tommy

Edited December 9, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Richard Hocking]

Tommy,

Still looking for the heavy set, middle-aged man put in the police car.

My current frame of mind is there are 3 possibilities: Jack Dougherty, Jim Braden, or a still unidentified man.

As James Richards pointed out, Roger Craig did identify Bradley as the SS agent. In the photo below, there are three men in front of the steps, in suits, with their backs turned to the camera.

People taken to Police cars, or being escorted by police officers received well deserved attention from the crowd of photographers and cameramen. There is photographic evidence showing the 3 tramps, Howard Brennan, Amos Euins, William Shelley, BRW, Danny Arce, Charles Brehm, Larry Florer and others with the police.

Conspicuously missing are photos of the heavy set, middle-age man, Jack Dougherty and Braden. Officer Denham also claimed there was an arrest made on the 3rd or 4th floor of the TSBD. That raises the possibility that one of the above was the man referenced by Denham.

It is my opinion that all of the above appear, (at least originally appeared) somewhere in the photographic record in front of the TSBD.

In The Lost JFK Tapes, between 29 minutes and 33 minutes into the video, there appears a variety of interesting film clips. Many of the individuals named above appear in that segment. I believe most of that film was shot by Cook. I am still wondering where the film shot by Sanderson and Perringer ended up.

Edit: Corrected Braden to Bradley as the man ID'd by Craig.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Richard Hocking

[Richard Hocking]

Individuals we should expect to see in front of the TSBD being escorted by police:

Heavy set, Middle-aged man (in police car)

Edgar Eugene Bradley, possibly talking to Roger Craig

Jim Braden

Jack Dougherty

Charles Givens ( he does appear in numerous photos, but none so far show him with police)

Billy Lovelady ( he also appears in numerous photos, but none so far show him with police)

Edited December 9, 2013 by Richard Hocking

[John Dolva]

did jim braden ever used the name james branum

[Thomas Graves]

Individuals we should expect to see in front of the TSBD being escorted by police:

Heavy set, Middle-aged man (in police car)

Jim Braden, possibly talking to Roger Craig

Jack Dougherty

Charles Givens ( he does appear in numerous photos, but none so far show him with police)

Billy Lovelady ( he also appears in numerous photos, but none so far show him with police)

[emphasis added by T. Graves ]

Richard,

Just to make sure we're on the same page here, I'm pretty sure that the "Edgar Eugene Bradley" Roger Craig identified (as being the 40ish, sandy-haired, grey-business-suit wearing, cleft-chinned "Secret Service agent" to whom he gave his account of Oswald getting into the Rambler station wagon) was the Edgar Eugene Bradley whose photos I posted in post #37, above, not the mobbed-up Eugene Hale Brading / Jim Braden who was briefly detained and who was probably the guy who was captured in photographs showing him wearing sunglasses and a dark western-style hat with an ornate hat band while listening to James Tague, for example.

I'm curious to know if you think that Roger Craig might have been "captured" after the assassination speaking with this mobbed-up Jim Brading / Braden, or do you think that it was more more likely that Craig spoke with "Edgar Eugene Bradley" as pictured in post #37?. I realize that mobbed-up Brading / Braden was known to use the last name "Bradley," but still.....?

--Tommy

Edited December 10, 2013 by Thomas Graves

[Richard Hocking]

Individuals we should expect to see in front of the TSBD being escorted by police:

Heavy set, Middle-aged man (in police car)

Jim Braden, possibly talking to Roger Craig

Jack Dougherty

Charles Givens ( he does appear in numerous photos, but none so far show him with police)

Billy Lovelady ( he also appears in numerous photos, but none so far show him with police)

[emphasis added ]

Richard,

Just to make sure we're on the same page here, I'm pretty sure that the "Edgar Eugene Bradley" Roger Craig identified (as being the 40ish, sandy-haired, grey-business-suit wearing, cleft-chinned "Secret Service agent" to whom he gave his account of Oswald getting into the Rambler station wagon) was the Edgar Eugene Bradley whose photos I posted in post #37, above, not the mobbed-up Eugene Hale Brading / Jim Braden who was briefly detained and who was probably the guy who was captured in photographs wearing sunglasses and a dark western-style hat with an ornate hat band, listening to James Tague for example.

I'm curious to know if you think that Roger Craig might have been "captured" after the assassination speaking with this mobbed-up Jim Brading / Braden. I realize that Brading / Braden was known to use the last name "Bradley," but still.....?

--Tommy

I just reread the post [shudder]. Thanks for catching that, Tommy. I tried to make a couple quick posts before I left this morning. Will go back and edit the references in the posts.

[Richard Hocking]

Earlier posts in this thread have referenced various individuals we should expect to see in the photographic and film record of the front of the TSBD just after the assassination, and the Dallas Police Command Post situated there. Specifically, there are references to photos of arrests and/or individuals being taken into police cars that so far, have not been located.

Here are some additional references that help to illuminate this issue.

During the Garrison Investigation, Bill Boxley and Bill Turner went to California on a mission to talk to an informant on Edgar Eugene Bradley. They ended up interviewing Carol Aydelotte, who knew Bradley well. The interview contains valuable information on Bradley, and included a section that has relevance to this thread. Below is an excerpt of a memo from Bill Turner to Garrison dated February 16, 1968

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Turner%20William%20Weyand%20Garrison%20File/Item%2013.pdf

"... An assortment of photographs was shown to Mrs. AYDELOTTE, including the photograph of the men in front of the School Book Depository apparently under arrest following the assassination. Without hesitation, she pointed to the photograph of the lead man and said, "That's Gene BRADLEY."

Combined with Roger Craig's testimony, there are now at least two witnesses placing Edgar Eugene Bradley in front of the TSBD after the Assassination, and at least one witness who viewed a photo of that event (3 if you include Boxley and Turner).

A poster on the ReOpenKennedyCase forum has posted a timely link to an excerpt of Howard Brennan's testimony with another interesting reference to the film record in front of the TSBD.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Will you put a mark to "G" at the end? And I believe you said that the car that you talked to the Secret Service agent in was at point "G" approximately?

Mr. BRENNAN. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Now, are these accurate or approximate locations, Mr. Brennan?

Mr. BRENNAN. Well, don't you have photographs of me talking to the Secret Service men right here?
Mr. BELIN. I don't believe so.
Mr. BRENNAN. You should have. It was on television before I got home my wife saw it.
Mr. BELIN. On television?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. At this time we do not have them.
Do you remember what station they were on television?
Mr. BRENNAN. No. But they had it. And I called I believe Mr. Lish who requested that he cut those films or get them cut of the FBI. I believe you might know about them. Somebody cut those films, because a number of times later the same films were shown, and that part was cut.
Mr. BELIN. Who would Mr. Lish be with?
Mr. BRENNAN. The FBI.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
We thank you very much for that information.

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t388p675-prayer-man-on-the-education-forum

Earlier, Thomas Graves asked if Brennan could have mistaken Dallas Police Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer for SS agent Forrest Sorrels. We have to remember that Sawyer was in full Dallas Police Dress uniform including White hat, badges, and rank insignia on his jacket. Sorrels was in plain clothes suit.

Brennan's reference to "Mr. Lish" raises serious questions regarding supression of portions of the film that was shown on TV, featuring Secret Service and the Dallas Police interviewing the witness in front of the TSBD. We have film and photos of Brennan talking to Inspector Sawyer, but so far, none of Brennan talking to the Secret Service Agent his wife saw on TV on November 22.

Since Brennan remembered Sorrels by name, I believe there is enough here to consider the possibility that Bradley was impersonating Forrest Sorrels before Sorrels arrived at the TSBD, and that was the reason the footage was later cut from the film originally shown on TV.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Richard Hocking

[Richard Hocking]

Further WC testimony from Howard Brennan:

Mr. McCLOY. Then when you got to the officer he took you to a Secret Service man, and then the Secret Service man and you were on the steps of the depository? 


Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. 
Well, we talked at the car, and then when these two colored guys came down the stairway onto the street, I pointed to them, and identified them as being the two that was in the floor below that floor. And then Mr. Sorrels, I think, had to give some orders to someone in the book store. He walked me up the steps, and I stood on the top landing.


Mr. McCLOY. When you were standing on those steps, did you see anyone pass you, or anyone that you could recognize as being--as looking somewhat like the man that you had seen in the window with the rifle? 


Mr. BRENNAN. No, I did not. 


Mr. DULLES. Did you give any estimate was it a matter of 5 minutes, 6 minutes, 7 minutes? In general, how long did it take you from the time that you left where you were protecting yourself to the time you were on the front steps? What order of magnitude? 10 minutes?


Mr. BRENNAN. No; it was a shorter time than that. 
I talked to Mr. Sorrels--I believe it was Mr. Sorrels--and the Secret Service men there I don't believe I talked to them more than 3 to 5 minutes. 


Mr. McCLOY. But you had prior to that time talked to the police officer? 


Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. 
Mr. McCLOY. You said the police officer said, "Wait a minute." 


Mr. BRENNAN. Yes. 


Mr. McCLOY. How long was that? 


Mr. BRENNAN. That was quick, too. He gave his orders to some one on that side of the building, and then he had taken me to the Secret Service man.

In this brief exchange, Brennan reveals some significant information.

By telling Mr. Dulles that he was on the front steps in less than 10 minutes, Brennan has reconfirmed a time stamp of 12:40, or slightly earlier for the Allen photo of his interview with Inspector Sawyer. The exchange above also confirms that Brennan has already talked to SS agent Sorrels by approximately 12:40. Remember that the real Forrest Sorrels is still at Parkland Hospital, and will not return to the TSBD until 12:55 when he will enter the building through the rear door on the loading dock.

Note also Brennan's distinction between Police Officers and Secret Service.

I received another excellent observation in a message from a poster on another forum. Remember the earlier Allen photo showing Brennan and Inspector Sawyer sitting together in the front seat of the Squad car.

Below is a crop that shows Sawyer on the steps.

The red arrow is pointing to the "Dallas Police Department" patch on Sawyer's left shoulder.

Now, if we look at the photo of Amos Euin's in the back of the Police Car ...

on the left edge of the photo, note the left shoulder of the man in the front seat. It cannot be Sawyer because the "Dallas Police Department" patch is missing.

- We have one photo showing Sawyer and Brennan in the front seat, and Euins not visible in the back seat.

- A Youtube video from Tommy that shows Brennan and Euins being placed into a police car, with Euins in the back and Brennan in the front.

- A third photo shows Euins in the back seat with a Plain Clothes man who is definitely not Inspector Sawyer sitting in the front seat, near the driver's side.

All this photo information supports multiple Sessions involving Brennan in the police car, one with Sawyer, and one with another plain clothes individual.

In his WC testimony, Brennan makes multiple references to being interviewed by a Secret Service man he believes is Forrest Sorrels.

The left arm of the jacket of the man in the front seat is light colored. Gray perhaps?

Roger Craig stated the "SS agent" he talked to was wearing a gray jacket.

Perhaps we will find other photographic evidence that will nail this issue down.

In the meantime, we might be able to discover film or photos of Brennan standing on the top step of the TSBD sometime just after 12:40 where he claimed he was standing in his WC testimony while waiting for "SSA Sorrels" to emerge from the building.

Edited December 10, 2013 by Richard Hocking

[Thomas Graves]

Earlier posts in this thread have referenced various individuals we should expect to see in the photographic and film record of the front of the TSBD just after the assassination, and the Dallas Police Command Post situated there. Specifically, there are references to photos of arrests and/or individuals being taken into police cars that so far, have not been located.

Here are some additional references that help to illuminate this issue.

During the Garrison Investigation, Bill Boxley and Bill Turner went to California on a mission to talk to an informant on Edgar Eugene Bradley. They ended up interviewing Carol Aydelotte, who knew Bradley well. The interview contains valuable information on Bradley, and included a section that has relevance to this thread. Below is an excerpt of a memo from Bill Turner to Garrison dated February 16, 1968

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Turner%20William%20Weyand%20Garrison%20File/Item%2013.pdf

"... An assortment of photographs was shown to Mrs. AYDELOTTE, including the photograph of the men in front of the School Book Depository apparently under arrest following the assassination. Without hesitation, she pointed to the photograph of the lead man and said, "That's Gene BRADLEY."

Combined with Roger Craig's testimony, there are now at least two witnesses placing Edgar Eugene Bradley in front of the TSBD after the Assassination, and at least one witness who viewed a photo of that event (3 if you include Boxley and Turner).

A poster on the ReOpenKennedyCase forum has posted a timely link to an excerpt of Howard Brennan's testimony with another interesting reference to the film record in front of the TSBD.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Will you put a mark to "G" at the end? And I believe you said that the car that you talked to the Secret Service agent in was at point "G" approximately?

Mr. BRENNAN. Right.

Mr. BELIN. Now, are these accurate or approximate locations, Mr. Brennan?

Mr. BRENNAN. Well, don't you have photographs of me talking to the Secret Service men right here?

Mr. BELIN. I don't believe so.

Mr. BRENNAN. You should have. It was on television before I got home my wife saw it.

Mr. BELIN. On television?

Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. At this time we do not have them.

Do you remember what station they were on television?

Mr. BRENNAN. No. But they had it. And I called I believe Mr. Lish who requested that he cut those films or get them cut of the FBI. I believe you might know about them. Somebody cut those films, because a number of times later the same films were shown, and that part was cut.

Mr. BELIN. Who would Mr. Lish be with?

Mr. BRENNAN. The FBI.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

We thank you very much for that information.

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t388p675-prayer-man-on-the-education-forum

Earlier, Thomas Graves asked if Brennan could have mistaken Dallas Police Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer for SS agent Forrest Sorrels. We have to remember that Sawyer was in full Dallas Police Dress uniform including White hat, badges, and rank insignia on his jacket. Sorrels was in plain clothes suit.

Brennan's reference to "Mr. Lish" raises serious questions regarding supression of portions of the film that was shown on TV, featuring Secret Service and the Dallas Police interviewing the witness in front of the TSBD. We have film and photos of Brennan talking to Inspector Sawyer, but so far, none of Brennan talking to the Secret Service Agent his wife saw on TV on November 22.

Since Brennan remembered Sorrels by name, I believe there is enough here to consider the possibility that Bradley was impersonating Forrest Sorrels before Sorrels arrived at the TSBD, and that was the reason the footage was later cut from the film originally shown on TV.

Richard,

Good work!

Now,

Regarding Edgar Eugene Bradley...

According to a Tom Bethell's diary, the photo of "two men apparently under arrest" in which Mrs. Aydelotte, in December of 1967, identified Edgar Eugene Bradley, had earlier been published in the Fort Worth Star Telegram newspaper (date unspecified).

One can only hope that Mrs. Adyelotte didn't identify Bradley as the tall, sandy-haired "tramp" from one of the Three Tramp photos that were published in the Fort Worth newspaper!

I seem to remember that in one or two of those photos, the older, third "tramp" (E. Howard Hunt?, Chauncey Holt?, Gus Abrams?) was almost completely "hidden" behind the tallest "tramp," giving the impression that the policemen were escorting only two hobos, not three. I wonder if it wasn't one of these apparent "two tramp" photos in which Mrs. Aydelotte picked out her ex-friend "Gene Bradley" ?

Does anyone know of any photos of two non-tramps, "apparently under arrest" in front of the TSBD, published in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram?

--Tommy

Part of Bethell's diary from McAdams website:

[...]

6. A Fort Worth Star-Telegram photograph showing two men in front of the School Book Depository apparently under arrest following the assassination was shown to Mrs. Aydelotte. According to [bill] Turner, "Without hesitation, she pointed to the lead man and said: 'That's Gene Bradley.'"

[...]

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bethell6.htm

Edited December 10, 2013 by Thomas Graves