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[William Plumlee]

Now some people still do not like this type of stuff surfacing.... follow the money... Guns and AMMO, tanks and planes... Batista and Castro... Interesting bed fellows.... If you get to far into this.., Doors will slam shut and the lights will go out... None the less... go for it.... (Tosh Plumlee)

Tosh,

Would one of those money trails have come from Carlos Prio? Remembering that Prio tried to woo Duvalier to use Haiti as a base of operations after trying to establish himself in the Dominican Republic.

Also, do you know if the groundwork laid by Prio as suggested in the document below eventually became the network which guys like Tony Varona later exploited?

This bunch of guys below were one of the first teams into Cuba post revolution but were busted.  Do any look familiar? I'd like to know who the guy 3rd from the right is.

YES, to the all of the above.  I am not sure about the picture. I will look at this a little closer and study the photo and get back to you..  Tosh

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Tim Carroll]

deleted for space

Edited November 5, 2004 by Tim Carroll

[James Richards]

I've got Gonzales on the brain, or the third guy from the left sure looks like him. (Tim Carroll)

I went through that stage myself, Tim. Everyone looked like Gonzalez to me until I realized that I was going slowly insane.

At this point in time, I believe Gonzalez was Felipe Vidal Santiago's assistant when Vidal was Chief of Martime Police in Cuba.

James

[William Plumlee]

I've got Gonzales on the brain, or the third guy from the left sure looks like him. (Tim Carroll)

I went through that stage myself, Tim. Everyone looked like Gonzalez to me until I realized that I was going slowly insane. 

At this point in time, I believe Gonzalez was Felipe Vidal Santiago's assistant when Vidal was Chief of Martime Police in Cuba.

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would not know to much about that lienage. I think it goes a little to far outside the scope of approved OPS. I would like to point out one thing that I think a lot of people do not consider when they get into this type of research.

In most all the authorized OPS I have ever been on.., you never congregate together in one place, or pose for "pictures". It is a known fact in "Black Operations", (CIA or Military Covert OPS) you go out of your way to NOT leave a trail, or documetation as to your activites, connections, or where abouts. That is a "NO-NO", and one of the first rules that is taught.

I feel to much value is put on this type of conformation and tie-in to approved Government Operations. I know some pictures have been planted to draw suspected operatives out for elimation, in order to protect the whole operation. In fact. We would go to grate lengths to NOT be recorded or spotted. In fact, that is why code names and coded operations and coded locations were used. Why would we want to leave a record or trail if it was an approved secret operation?

I request that you give this some deep thought. I have known men who have been called on the carpet because of this security brakedown. The old WWII pharse ... "Loose Lips Sinks Ships", still applies. We seem to, now days , "...chase eachothers tails, and go round and round...". over pictures and what they mean... I think, "not much". Sorry. IMHO .

Those who need pictures and documents and concrete proof, to remind themselves how important a part they played in the scope of history, were never associated directly with approved CIA/MI Government operations and were perhaps only used as 'Cut-Out s" to protect the real direction of an event authorized by others who were secretly hidden in the shadows.... Thanks, I'll continue to try and help on picture ID but I feel to much is put upon pictures and what they really mean...... "If we shoot for the moon... we do not want to land on Mars" Tosh

[James Richards]

I would not know to much about that lienage. I think it goes a little to far outside the scope of approved OPS. I would like to point out one thing that I think a lot of people do not consider when they get into this type of research.

In most all the authorized OPS I have ever been on.., you never congregate together in one place, or pose for "pictures". It is a known fact in "Black Operations", (CIA or Military Covert OPS) you go out of your way to NOT leave a trail, or documetation as to your activites, connections, or where abouts. That is a "NO-NO", and one of the first rules that is taught.

I feel to much value is put on this type of conformation and tie-in to approved Government Operations. I know some pictures have been planted to draw suspected operatives out for elimation, in order to protect the whole operation. In fact. We would go to grate lengths to NOT be recorded or spotted. In fact, that is why code names and coded operations and coded locations were used. Why would we want to leave a record or trail if it was an approved secret operation?

I request that you give this some deep thought. I have known men who have been called on the carpet because of this security brakedown. The old WWII pharse ... "Loose Lips Sinks Ships", still applies. We seem to, now days , "...chase eachothers tails, and go round and round...". over pictures and what they mean... I think, "not much". Sorry. IMHO .

Those who need pictures and documents and concrete proof, to remind themselves how important a part they played in the scope of history, were never associated directly with approved CIA/MI Government operations and were perhaps only used as 'Cut-Out s" to protect the real direction of an event authorized by others who were secretly hidden in the shadows.... Thanks, I'll continue to try and help on picture ID but I feel to much is put upon pictures and what they really mean...... "If we shoot for the moon... we do not want to land on Mars" (Tosh Plumlee)

Yes, Tosh, I would have to agree with you. There was also the situation were in the days before the JFK assassination plans formed, photographers like Tom Dunkin, Andrew St. George, Dickey Chapelle, Terrence Spencer and Lyn Pelham took photos of anti-Castro fighters so to promote their cause. I believe some of these people were then recruited into the Dallas plot which may have made some nervous. The ransacking of Tom Dunkin's place may be the result of that. Dunkin snapped many images of Interpen members as well as other anti-Castro activities involving guys like Dennis Harber, William Seymour and Bernardo De Torres.

The guys in the image I posted earlier were arrested by Castro's forces and paraded for the Cuban media as American mercenaries. That shot was published in one of the Cuban papers.

Cheers,

James

Edited October 31, 2004 by James Richards

[William Plumlee]

I would not know to much about that lienage.  I think it goes a little to far outside the scope of approved OPS.  I would like to point out one thing that I think a lot of people do not consider when they get into this type of research. 

  In most all the authorized OPS I have ever been on.., you never congregate together in one place, or pose for "pictures".  It is a known fact in "Black Operations", (CIA or Military Covert OPS) you go out of your way to NOT leave a trail, or documetation as to your activites, connections, or where abouts. That is a "NO-NO", and one of the first rules that is taught.

I feel to much value is put on this type of conformation and tie-in to approved Government Operations.  I know some pictures have been planted to draw suspected operatives out for elimation, in order to protect the whole operation.  In fact. We would go to grate lengths to NOT be recorded or spotted.  In fact, that is why code names and coded operations and coded locations were used.  Why would we want to leave a record or trail if it was an approved secret operation?

   

I request that you give this some deep thought.  I have known men who have been called on the carpet because of this security brakedown.  The old WWII pharse ... "Loose Lips Sinks Ships", still applies.  We seem to, now days , "...chase eachothers tails, and go round and round...".  over pictures and what they mean... I think, "not much".  Sorry. IMHO .

    Those who need pictures and documents and concrete proof, to remind themselves how important a part they played in the scope of history, were never associated directly with approved CIA/MI Government operations and were perhaps only used as 'Cut-Out s" to protect the real direction of an event authorized by others who were secretly hidden in the shadows....  Thanks,  I'll continue to try and help on picture ID but I feel to much is put upon pictures and what they really mean......  "If we shoot for the moon... we do not want to land on Mars"  (Tosh Plumlee)

Yes, Tosh, I would have to agree with you. There was also the situation were in the days before the JFK assassination plans formed, photographers like Tom Dunkin, Andrew St. George, Dickey Chapelle, Terrence Spencer and Lyn Pelham took photos of anti-Castro fighters so to promote their cause. I believe some of these people were then recruited into the Dallas plot which may have made some nervous. The ransacking of Tom Dunkin's place may be the result of that. Dunkin snapped many images of Interpen members as well as other anti-Castro activities involving guys like Dennis Harber, William Seymour and Bernardo De Torres.

The guys in the image I posted earlier were arrested by Castro's forces and paraded for the Cuban media as American mercenaries. That shot was published in one of the Cuban papers.

Cheers,

James

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks James. Photo's are an execellent source, but when they become interwoven into a sanction operation, and are said to be proof of the existing operational members of that covert operation as a whole, then that becomes another matter. What you and some others are doing with the pictures you come across is commendable and certainly helps follow the lineage as various people are recruited, sometimes for a "one time" shot in an ongoing OPS. However, there are others who try to work their concepts and I.D.'s into a group conspiracy when in fact the picture was only a, perhaps, previous private PR picture.

In my opinion, the infamous Mexico picture found in "Berry and the Boys" allegedy naming various OPS 40 members all seated together falls into this cateorgy.

Thanks again for sharing your picture with me. They are a tremendous help And too, your photos also represent to me long tedious hours of research... the true mark of a professional. Thanks again for your help and sharing. Tosh

[Chris Cox]

So true fellows. Happy Halloween

Pix can mean so much and so little at same time. An example:

Today is anniversary of my dad's demise and the LIFE photo of this (Operation Trick or Treat) event became the icon of my search. I found the man who took it and this opened up new avenues of research. But the pix itself was useless to finding out who my dad was or what he did re: Cuba and other piloting operations.

Pix are all over and not directly helpful but they may point way to events/people. We just can't spend too much time on photos without more on the who what when where of 'em.

Here's a nod to the silly research:

Halloween was day DAPhillips was born, Paul Hughes and Masferrer met fate, and LHO went to embassy. Are there others?