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Shane O'Sullivan

JFK - The Medical Cover Up featuring Doug Horne

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While serving as chief analyst of military records at the Assassination Records Review Board in the nineties, Douglas Horne examined serious anomalies in the medical evidence in the JFK case.

In a new 76-minute feature JFK - The Medical Cover Up, Horne draws on his book "Inside the ARRB" to present a comprehensive overview of the missing, altered and fraudulent evidence that indicates a cover-up by multiple agencies of the government. Their mission - to hide the true nature of JFK's wounds and purge all trace of a conspiracy.

https://vimeo.com/ondemand/jfk

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I watched this video. It was somewhat difficult to follow at times, and appears based on his multivolume work Inside the ARRB.

One thing that did stick out was his reliance on the Sergeant Boyajian memo that states that the coffin arrived at Bethesda at 6.35pm

I am wondering how reliable this document is. If it is authentic and unchallengeable it raises a series problem.

Horne's narrative is that the coffin arrived at 6.35, as per the Boyajian memo, and, recorded by by Sibbert and O'Neil, the official autopsy was at 8:00pm. Thereby allowing an hour and a half time disparity.

If the Boyajian memo is unimpeachable evidence then there is a series problem here.

I am curious what members feel about the integrity of this memo.

James

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I watched this video. It was somewhat difficult to follow at times, and appears based on his multivolume work Inside the ARRB.

One thing that did stick out was his reliance on the Sergeant Boyajian memo that states that the coffin arrived at Bethesda at 6.35pm

I am wondering how reliable this document is. If it is authentic and unchallengeable it raises a series problem.

Horne's narrative is that the coffin arrived at 6.35, as per the Boyajian memo, and, recorded by by Sibbert and O'Neil, the official autopsy was at 8:00pm. Thereby allowing an hour and a half time disparity.

If the Boyajian memo is unimpeachable evidence then there is a series problem here.

I am curious what members feel about the integrity of this memo.

James

James, the memo appears to be confirmed by Dennis David who said the coffin arrived "about 6.45", and Edward Reed, a techinican at Bethesda said it arrived "around 6.30p.m."

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With all due respect, Doug Horne appears to have swallowed the Whitaker story whole, as evidenced in this article at the Lew Rockwell site:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/06/douglas-p-horne/photographic-evidence-of-bullet-hole-in-jfk-limousine-windshield-hiding-in-plain-sight/

As much as I appreciate his good research in other areas, I have no choice but to weigh and evaluate all his statements based on his buying into this fabricated story.

I have begun an analysis of this article on aaj:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/JeJ2x239Ywc%5B1-25-false%5D

Edited by Pamela Brown

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With all due respect, Doug Horne appears to have swallowed the Whitaker story whole, as evidenced in this article at the Lew Rockwell site:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/06/douglas-p-horne/photographic-evidence-of-bullet-hole-in-jfk-limousine-windshield-hiding-in-plain-sight/

As much as I appreciate his good research in other areas, I have no choice but to weigh and evaluate all his statements based on his buying into this fabricated story.

I have begun an analysis of this article on aaj:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/JeJ2x239Ywc%5B1-25-false%5D

Weigh in by all means, now If we can get beyond all your links here and to the subject, we'll of scored success.

I shall remind you this is not a discussion started by a flutist about the air pressure in JFK's limo tires.... You're fully capable of posting your OPINION, yes, concerning whatever or whomever posts here, that it!

Attempting to sound the eminent authority concerning Doug Horne's expertise, not to mention, his first person, hands on expertise-- passing judgement on his work is quite frankly, ludicrious.

You should find someone else's boat to ride. This is not LANCER.

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I watched this video. It was somewhat difficult to follow at times, and appears based on his multivolume work Inside the ARRB.

One thing that did stick out was his reliance on the Sergeant Boyajian memo that states that the coffin arrived at Bethesda at 6.35pm

I am wondering how reliable this document is. If it is authentic and unchallengeable it raises a series problem.

Horne's narrative is that the coffin arrived at 6.35, as per the Boyajian memo, and, recorded by by Sibbert and O'Neil, the official autopsy was at 8:00pm. Thereby allowing an hour and a half time disparity.

If the Boyajian memo is unimpeachable evidence then there is a series problem here.

I am curious what members feel about the integrity of this memo.

James

James, I find it interesting that Dennis David and Donald Rebentisch are witnesses to the early arrival of the shipping casket and David is told by Boswell that this is the body of President Kennedy. The Boyajian document corroborates David and Donald Rebentisch's account so it would be rather strange not to believe Boyajian. I find it more interesting, indeed, risible, that James DiEugenio pans Livingston's critique of Horne's Magnum Opus with the exception of one point: the Boyajian document. My oh my, Harrison writes an unworthy book whose only praiseworthy moment is when he attacks the heart of Lifton's body alteration scenario--the unexpected early arrival of the President's body in a shipping casket-- a scenario DiEugenio cannot stomach because he cannot stomach Lifton. This subjective animus is behind the attack on the Boyajian document, no matter how hard Livingston or DiEugenio attempt to sound scholarly. But see for yourself. Read DiEugenio's review of Livingston's Kaleidoscope and other reviews and responses. I'd like your take on them.

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I watched this video. It was somewhat difficult to follow at times, and appears based on his multivolume work Inside the ARRB.

One thing that did stick out was his reliance on the Sergeant Boyajian memo that states that the coffin arrived at Bethesda at 6.35pm

I am wondering how reliable this document is. If it is authentic and unchallengeable it raises a series problem.

Horne's narrative is that the coffin arrived at 6.35, as per the Boyajian memo, and, recorded by by Sibbert and O'Neil, the official autopsy was at 8:00pm. Thereby allowing an hour and a half time disparity.

If the Boyajian memo is unimpeachable evidence then there is a series problem here.

I am curious what members feel about the integrity of this memo.

James

James:

I see no reason to question the authenticity (or “the integrity”) of the Boyajian report.

First of all, you might wish to know how the document was discovered. A JFK researcher who was researching materials at the Gerald Ford Library came across an item indicating that Sgt. Boyajian’s unit had been nominated for an award because of their fine work at Bethesda as part of the morgue security detail. The researcher located Boyajian and spoke to him briefly. From that conversation, it became evident that Boyajaian was NCOIC (“Non Commissioned Officer in Charge”) of the USMC morgue security detail. In other words, he was in charge.

Boyajian didn’t remember the events of November 22, but he said that he had retained a copy of the report he had written.

Subsequently, this information was provided to the ARRB. Doug Horne then called Sgt. Boyajian (September 5, 1997) and interviewed him by phone.

Within days, Boyajian then sent the ARRB a copy of the copy of his own reportthat he retained.

Of course, the document validates the account of Dennis David, who is the subject of Chapter 25 of Best Evidence.

Recall what Dennis David said. Here's what he told me (when I first interviewed him, by phone, in July 1979: that the President’s body arrive in a black hearse, some 20 minutes before the arrival of the naval ambulance from Andrews Air Force Base that brought the Dallas casket to Bethesda. Regarding the black hearse: There were a half a dozen men in civilian clothes inside and they delivered a shipping casket to the morgue. Dennis David told me that this event occurred 15 or 30 minutes before the naval ambulance—carrying Jacqueline Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, and Secret Service agents arrived at the front. In our filmed interview (October 1980), when I cross-examined him and pressed him hard as to the time element, he said, quite empatically, (and you can see this on the B.E. Video), that the black hearse arrived “a good 20 minutes” before the arrival of the naval ambulance.

It is a matter of public record that the naval ambulance (from Andrews, and carrying Jacqueline Kennedy, RFK, and the Dallas coffin) at 6:53-6:55 (per wire service and SS reports).

The Boyajian report –written on November 26, 1963 from notes made by Boyajian—provides the time of delivery of the casket containing JFK’s body as “18:35” (which is 6:35 pm).

As Dennis David told me--emphatically, and on camera, in October 1980: ". . .a good 20 minutes before. .."

The Boyajian document is document “md 236” in the ARRB’s “Master Medical List”. (Just Google “ARRB Master Medical List” and click on md 236).

By listing 6:35 PM as the time of arrival of JFK’s body, it constitutes documentary evidence that corroborates the account of Dennis David, and establishes that the coffin offloaded from Air Force One was empty.

There's no way around the airtight logic and the chronology, because these events took place in full public view. THe inescapable fact is: an empty casket at the Bethesda front entrance means an empty casket aboard Air Force One. (And, I might add, an empty casket on AF -1 means an empty casket on take-off).

All of this is discussed in great detail in Chapter 25 of Best Evidence.

It is also dealt with in a series of articles last year by Jacob Hornberger on his blog at the Freedom Foundation site.

DSL

7/13/14 1:20 AM PST

Los Angeles, California

Edited by David Lifton

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Daniel,

I have not read the Harrison/DiEugenio conversation. I will look at it. I like much in Douglas Horne’s work, although there are also aspects I disagree with. I cannot accept the idea that James Hume’s carried out the Pre-Post Mortem. I am on the fence regarding Roy Kellerman and initially was aghast with his descriptions of John Connally and Lyndon Johnston. I am not now quite so upset with those portraits. If I remember correctly, I believe he also posited the Bill Greer shot JFK scenario. However, there is much that is worth reading in his work.

It is a while since I have read “Inside The ARRB” I will look back over it and read this conversation. That said, I do feel Jim is being a little unkind to suggest that the only aspect or worth is the Boyajian document. Although maybe not at the top of everybody’s lists, one thing I do like and appreciate are his various summary tables. I have found them very useful.

Thanks for the heads up on this.

James.

Edited by James R Gordon

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David,

In your recent address at Bismarck State College you made a point that I felt then, and now, is an important basis for serious research. You comment on the importance of the divergence between the evidence and the historical narrative.

This memo is one such example. If it is a valid document, and you give very good reasons why it is indeed a valid document, then the document is a serious flaw in the historical narrative.

I did find it curious that Sergeant Boyajian did not remember the details of a night that is etched into the memory of all who remember that event.

Thanks.

James.

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With all due respect, Doug Horne appears to have swallowed the Whitaker story whole, as evidenced in this article at the Lew Rockwell site:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/06/douglas-p-horne/photographic-evidence-of-bullet-hole-in-jfk-limousine-windshield-hiding-in-plain-sight/

As much as I appreciate his good research in other areas, I have no choice but to weigh and evaluate all his statements based on his buying into this fabricated story.

I have begun an analysis of this article on aaj:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/JeJ2x239Ywc%5B1-25-false%5D

Weigh in by all means, now If we can get beyond all your links here and to the subject, we'll of scored success.

I shall remind you this is not a discussion started by a flutist about the air pressure in JFK's limo tires.... You're fully capable of posting your OPINION, yes, concerning whatever or whomever posts here, that it!

Attempting to sound the eminent authority concerning Doug Horne's expertise, not to mention, his first person, hands on expertise-- passing judgement on his work is quite frankly, ludicrious.

You should find someone else's boat to ride. This is not LANCER.

Just a tad disrespectful, don't you think, David?

My issue with Doug Horne's article is that it includes false information. I am doing what I can to provide accurate information so that people will be able to decide for themselves what to think. Isn't that what research is all about?

Edited by Pamela Brown

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Pamela, I looked at your Google Groups beginning, but I must ask: In a nutshell, what proves the Whitaker account to be false? If there's a link to your specific findings in Google Groups, could you post it?

One thing sticks out a bit for me - the part where Whitaker says that the glassworks at the Ford River Rouge plant was ordered to use the bullet-damaged windshield for a template. If they were not yet installing the later bulletproof version, wouldn't Rouge have Lincoln Continental limo windshields in stock, or wouldn't they make one from specifications on file, rather than have to use a physical template? Perhaps I'm reading in too much, or don't understand how the Ford organization worked back then. But I don't know how the Presidential limo windshield would be different from that of any other Continental limo windshield. The major modifications to the Presidential limo would seem to have been in the length.

Edited by David Andrews

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With all due respect, Doug Horne appears to have swallowed the Whitaker story whole, as evidenced in this article at the Lew Rockwell site:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2012/06/douglas-p-horne/photographic-evidence-of-bullet-hole-in-jfk-limousine-windshield-hiding-in-plain-sight/

As much as I appreciate his good research in other areas, I have no choice but to weigh and evaluate all his statements based on his buying into this fabricated story.

I have begun an analysis of this article on aaj:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/JeJ2x239Ywc%5B1-25-false%5D

Weigh in by all means, now If we can get beyond all your links here and to the subject, we'll of scored success.

I shall remind you this is not a discussion started by a flutist about the air pressure in JFK's limo tires.... You're fully capable of posting your OPINION, yes, concerning whatever or whomever posts here, that it!

Attempting to sound the eminent authority concerning Doug Horne's expertise, not to mention, his first person, hands on expertise-- passing judgement on his work is quite frankly, ludicrious.

You should find someone else's boat to ride. This is not LANCER.

Just a tad disrespectful, don't you think, David?

My issue with Doug Horne's article is that it includes false information. I am doing what I can to provide accurate information so that people will be able to decide for themselves what to think. Isn't that what research is all about?

Pamela,

Your link to your blog on google groups is no good.

--Tommy :sun

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