Why I believe the SBT is nothing but BS

[Gil Jesus]

You can't have a transiting bullet without a bullet track through the body.

[David Von Pein]

Why I believe the SBT is *not* BS .... http://single-bullet-theory.blogspot.com

Edited May 27, 2014 by David Von Pein

[Pat Speer]

Just a thought, David. Since you believe in this tooth fairy, can you please tell us his real name and where he lives?

Just kidding, but seriously. When does the bullet strike Kennedy? Where does it impact? How does it pass through the back/neck without striking bone? At what velocity was it traveling? At what velocity did it exit the neck? And strike Connally? At what velocity did it hit the wrist? And strike the thigh?

All the "official" answers to these questions smell to high heaven. They don't add up. Your hero Vince couldn't make them add up. At the mock trial he pushed that Kennedy was shot before he went behind the sign. In his book, he hid this from his readers and acted as if it never happened. If I recall, he also cited Sturdivan's testimony before the HSCA. Y'know, the testimony that Sturdivan disavowed in 2005?

No one needs to "debunk" the single-bullet theory. You can't debunk imaginary creations. I mean, if someone said PROVE to me that my invisible rabbit friend Harvey--that you can't see-- isn't really here--you wouldn't take them seriously, would you?

And so it goes with the single-bullet theory... There's no there there...

[Ray Mitcham]

Even Dr Humes didn't believe that CE399 caused the wounds in JFK and Connally.

Mr. SPECTER - "Dr. Humes, under your opinion which you have just given us, what effect, if any, would that have on whether this bullet, 399, could have been the one to lodge in Governor Connally's thigh?"

Commander HUMES - " I think that extremely unlikely. The reports, again Exhibit 392 from Parkland, tell of an entrance wound on the lower midthigh of the Governor, and X-rays taken there are described as showing metallic fragments in the bone, which apparently by this report were not removed and are still present in Governor Connally's thigh. I can't conceive of where they came from this missile."

The "ballistics expert" who invented the Single bullet theory was a young lawyer, Arlen Specter.

'nuff said.

"

• "You call it the theory; I call it the conclusion; it was a theory until we found the facts [edit - "manufactured the evidence"] ; that's why I refer to it as the Single-Bullet Conclusion." -- Arlen Specter; 1967

Edited May 27, 2014 by Ray Mitcham

[Robert Prudhomme]

I believe the most ignored yet vulnerable portion of the SBT is Connally's wrist wound, simply for the fact the bullet had to enter the back of the wrist and exit the palm side of the wrist; passing through the narrow space between the ulna and radius bones without so much as scratching the ulna bone. To make things worse for Specter, this bullet also first squarely strikes the radius bone with the side of the bullet, a good inch away from where it penetrated the flesh between the two bones.

The alignment of the wrist, in order to accommodate the bullet path exiting JBC's chest, requires JBC to have his wrist rotated backwards at an impossible angle, something I defy any of the readers to do. This problem is usually dealt with quietly in re-enactment cartoons, such as PBS Nova's "Cold Case", by either having the bullet enter the palm side of the wrist (and hoping no one notices) or by relying on a sketchy drawing, in two dimensions, and having everyone's attention drawn to other aspects of the SBT.

Even if the bullet path had somehow lined up with the gap between the two bones, and the bullet had somehow struck the radius side on, reversed itself, moved laterally an inch and found new energy to re-start itself and pass between the radius and the ulna, it still is not pointing at JBC's thigh. At least, not without ricocheting off of the ulna bone and leaving a mark noticeable on x-rays.

David von Pain, I would dearly love to hear your opinion on this minor yet crucial aspect of the SBT unless, of course, you are fearful of being embarrassed.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Robert Prudhomme

[David Von Pein]

The basic facts and the shooting scenario (as a WHOLE) practically make the SBT an absolute CERTAINTY, not a mere "possibility" (and far from the "BS" fairy tale that all conspiracists make it out to be).

And it defies all belief that a very smart man like Patrick J. Speer cannot see that my above paragraph is accurate re: the SBT.

And by "the shooting scenario as a whole", I'm talking about the following things, of course....

1.) The positioning of the two victims in the Presidential limousine (one in front of the other) as they appeared to the assassin in the sixth-floor window of the Book Depository during the period of time when both President Kennedy and Governor Connally are first hit by the gunfire. (This very important fact of the victims being situated ONE IN FRONT OF THE OTHER from the POV of the sixth-floor assassin is invariably downplayed or ignored altogether by most conspiracy advocates.)

2.) The fact that EACH victim was struck in THEIR RESPECTIVE UPPER BACKS by a bullet on 11/22/63.

3.) The fact that Kennedy also happened to have a bullet hole in his lower throat too. (Was this just an extremely fortunate COINCIDENCE for Specter & Co., to have this bullet hole in Kennedy's throat too, to make some kind of "single bullet" hypothesis feasible?)

4.) The complete lack of any bullets in JFK's neck and upper back. (More tremendous luck for those plotters/shooters, eh Pat?)

5.) The Zapruder Film shows the two men being hit at pretty much the same time. (And even CTers, if they have eyes and are "reasonable" CTers, cannot possibly think there's very much separation in time between the JFK & JBC hits. So, again, the luck of those multiple shooters never runs dry, does it?)

6.) And there is the oft-overlooked fact that it was the AUTOPSY doctors who really got the SBT rolling....for it was THOSE guys who declared that the bullet that entered JFK's upper back MUST have "made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck".

And WHY did Humes and Company reach that conclusion? Because there were NO BULLETS in JFK's body, plus NO significant enough damage in JFK's body that could possibly account for TWO bullets just stopping on a dime in Kennedy's neck AND upper back.

Now, Pat, with all of the above facts in mind, come back in here and tell me that EVERY one of those points I just raised adds up to an "imaginary creation" known as the SBT.

CTers get sick of LNers asking the "WHERE DID THE BULLETS GO?" question, but that's just tough--because it IS an excellent question that needs to always be asked when arguing with JFK conspiracy theorists about the Single-Bullet Theory, and it's a question that no CTer has ever answered in a believable and reasonable fashion. And the proverbial answer of, "Well, DVP, somebody must have dug those two bullets out of JFK's body before his autopsy", just doesn't even pass the laugh test.

More:

JFK-Archives.blogspot.com / index / The Single-Bullet Theory

Edited May 27, 2014 by David Von Pein

[Robert Prudhomme]

Mr. von Pein

You have, quite predictably, completely ignored the small matter of the magic bullet transiting Connally's wrist. Are you truly afraid of discussing this matter?

[David Von Pein]

And how many things in my laundry list are you going to ignore, Robert P.? All six of them?

Edited May 27, 2014 by David Von Pein

[Robert Prudhomme]

Don't deflect attention from the topic of Connally's wrist wound, Mr. von Pain. Address that topic, unless you have nothing to offer on the subject of the wrist wound. Is that your problem, Davie?

[Robert Prudhomme]

The great David von Pein can't explain how the Magic Bullet went through the back of Connally's wrist and exited the palm side. Pathetic.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Robert Prudhomme

[David Von Pein]

The great David von Pein [sic] can't explain how the Magic Bullet went through the back of Connally's wrist and exited the palm side. Pathetic.

What difference does it make, Robert?

Or are you suggesting that Connally's wrist was REALLY hit by TWO different bullets, instead of just the ONE bullet that everybody knows did hit that wrist?

Or are you saying you think Connally was hit in the wrist from the FRONT by a separate bullet, different from the one that got him in the upper back....even though there is no indication that more than just ONE bullet struck the Governor's body on 11/22? (Gov. Connally himself, in every interview he ever gave, always said he was hit by ONE bullet--not more than one.)

And we do not know the EXACT (to-the-millimeter) location of John Connally's wrist at the instant it was hit by Oswald's CE399 bullet. Nobody can possibly know that detail (to the millimeter). So your argument (whatever it is) regarding Connally's wrist is dead in the water based on that undeniably-true "We Can't Know" fact alone.

In addition, why couldn't Oswald's bullet from behind have struck the back side of the wrist after exiting the chest and then exited the other side of his wrist before hitting his left thigh? I can easily envision such a flight path for Oswald's bullet that would meet all those requirements without it destroying the validity of the SBT. I see nothing unusual about it at all. I wonder why no CTer can envision such a thing?

Any more excuses to keep from accepting the obvious truth re: the SBT?

(BTW, Bob, thanks for joining the ranks of W. Anthony Marsh in deciding for yourself how to spell my last name. I always enjoy it when people think they know how to spell it better than I do. And the "Pain" thing is so cute too. And oh so original. Congrats!)

Edited May 27, 2014 by David Von Pein

[Robert Prudhomme]

David von Pein

Glad you like the way we spell your name. It suits you to a tee.

So, you think it's easy to line up the back of the wrist with the bullet exiting Connally's chest, do you? If so, why not have someone pose in this position, with the back of the wrist perpendicular to the path of the bullet exiting the chest? Ask a friend, if you have any.

[Robert Prudhomme]

P.S. While you're at it, maybe you could explain how the whole intact bullet passed neatly between the ulna and radius bones of Connally's right wrist, after it came sideways through Connally's shirt cuff and squarely ran into Connally's radius bone, side on. Are we sure it wasn't just a fragment that went into Connally's left thigh? Humes seemed to think so.

[James R Gordon]

David,

Your shopping list means nothing if you cannot explain how the bullet transited from back to front in JFK’s body. Nor are you alone in ignoring inconvenient facts. Below is my oft quoted Dale Myers image. He has set up a clear trajectory line from the Oswald window through JFK and through John Connally. I do not dispute his trajectory analysis, it is a clear demonstration of the feasibility of the SBT.

However what I do dispute is the medical implications of such a trajectory analysis. In order to have the bullet penetrate John Connally he has the bullet travel through John Connally’s chest. The bullet never entered John Connally’s chest cavity – even though the HCSA decided that it had to. In addition Dale Myers has the bullet exit close to where the heart would be….making that wound for John Connally most likely a fatal wound.

When Robert Prudhomme reminded you about the wrist wound you reply “What difference does it make?” Really!!! It makes all the difference in the world and you know it does.

Dale Myers:-

Although the drawing below is not 100% accurate, there is a CAT which is accurate. For the SBT to be valid the bullet has to enter the back – at a point lower than the throat exit point. The bullet has no option but to go through the spine. The body does not have a direct route from back to throat without penetrating the spine. That is a medical fact about which there can be no dispute.

The CAT scan, as opposed to the drawing, makes clear that in order to do so it has to smash T1. But worse than that it also has to inflict damage on the spinal cord.

Your problem is that James Humes is on record stating that the spine was not damaged. Now the HCSA who did focus on the spine were at variance as to what they say but at worst suggested there might be cracks in it. But a crack is not sufficient. This bullet has to go through the spine, not just create a minor crack – if indeed there was one because the experts were never in agreement with what they saw.

You might be wondering what all those coloured arrows are for. They point to muscles that the autopsy report makes clear were not damaged. However for the bullet to make such a path through the body they need to be damaged,

But there is another problem. Assuming that the bullet does smash through T1 there is no bone matter between that point and the point of exit. Therefore when the bullet does exit, it is going in the wrong direction: it is traveling towards Nellie Connally. The bullet needs solid matter to strike and therefore be able to change its direction. Past the spine there is nothing solid enough to deflect a bullet.

And then, which I have not discussed, How was the bullet able to enter at a point lower than it exited? Somehow its height had to rise. How was that able to happen?

Cat Scan Drawing:-

As I see it you have three major problems.

First. The body has no natural path from entrance to exit without the body suffering incredible damage.

Second. The bullet enters at a point lower than it exit point. How was this bullet able on a downward trajectory move upwards in the body?

Third. If the bullet did take the direct route from entrance to exit, once it had passed T1 there was no means to correct its direction. It will exit going in the wrong direction.

You are just like Dale Myers, Vincent Bugliosi and Gerald Posner: they are happy to draw pretty straight lines without explaining how such lines are able to create a viable path through the human body. For you proof is the bodies aligned correctly; each was struck in their upper back; the fact JFK had a wound in his lower throat – actually it was between trachea rings 3 &4; you favourite – missing bullets; and so on.

Your problem is that unless it can be explained how a bullet could medically transit through JFK’s upper chest area – none of that makes any difference. Unless you can explain what is medically impossible, your shopping list is meaningless.

James

Edited May 28, 2014 by James R Gordon

[Pat Speer]

My responses in bold.

The basic facts and the shooting scenario (as a WHOLE) practically make the SBT an absolute CERTAINTY, not a mere "possibility" (and far from the "BS" fairy tale that all conspiracists make it out to be).

And it defies all belief that a very smart man like Patrick J. Speer cannot see that my above paragraph is accurate re: the SBT.

And by "the shooting scenario as a whole", I'm talking about the following things, of course....

1.) The positioning of the two victims in the Presidential limousine (one in front of the other) as they appeared to the assassin in the sixth-floor window of the Book Depository during the period of time when both President Kennedy and Governor Connally are first hit by the gunfire. (This very important fact of the victims being situated ONE IN FRONT OF THE OTHER from the POV of the sixth-floor assassin is invariably downplayed or ignored altogether by most conspiracy advocates.)

The SBT does not hold that Kennedy and Connally were both hit from behind. It holds that they were both hit from behind at the exact same time by the exact same bullet.

2.) The fact that EACH victim was struck in THEIR RESPECTIVE UPPER BACKS by a bullet on 11/22/63.

Once again. This is close to meaningless.

3.) The fact that Kennedy also happened to have a bullet hole in his lower throat too. (Was this just an extremely fortunate COINCIDENCE for Specter & Co., to have this bullet hole in Kennedy's throat too, to make some kind of "single bullet" hypothesis feasible?)

Now we're getting somewhere. Having a hole in the throat isn't good enough. It has to be in direct alignment with the entrance on Kennedy's back and the entrance on Connally's back. And it's several inches out of alignment.

4.) The complete lack of any bullets in JFK's neck and upper back. (More tremendous luck for those plotters/shooters, eh Pat?)

Non-sequitur. If the bullets struck them the way they were supposedly struck, one wouldn't expect to find a bullet inside them.

5.) The Zapruder Film shows the two men being hit at pretty much the same time. (And even CTers, if they have eyes and are "reasonable" CTers, cannot possibly think there's very much separation in time between the JFK & JBC hits. So, again, the luck of those multiple shooters never runs dry, does it?)

Nice dodge. Kennedy is clearly hit before he went behind the sign. The ONLY photographic panel convened by the government to study the film concluded as much. Connally is clearly hit as they come out from behind the sign. The evidence is clear, then, that they were not hit by the same bullet. So how did your hero Bugliosi--who swore not to hide anything from his readers--deal with this in his opus? He deliberately deceived them and pretended both that the HSCA panel had never come to such a conclusion, and that HE had never agreed with them, and introduced testimony on this point in the mock trial.

6.) And there is the oft-overlooked fact that it was the AUTOPSY doctors who really got the SBT rolling....for it was THOSE guys who declared that the bullet that entered JFK's upper back MUST have "made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck".

Yes, it's true. The inexperienced doctors concluded the back wound connected to the throat wound AFTER the body was no longer in front of them, AFTER they were told there'd been but three shots, and AFTER the government, as an entity, had decided to close ranks and sell the media that the now-deceased Oswald had acted alone. That's not science. That's politics.

And WHY did Humes and Company reach that conclusion? Because there were NO BULLETS in JFK's body, plus NO significant enough damage in JFK's body that could possibly account for TWO bullets just stopping on a dime in Kennedy's neck AND upper back.

NOT TRUE. The throat wound could have been a fragment wound from the head shot.

Now, Pat, with all of the above facts in mind, come back in here and tell me that EVERY one of those points I just raised adds up to an "imaginary creation" known as the SBT.

Yes, David, it's nothing but smoke and mirrors.

CTers get sick of LNers asking the "WHERE DID THE BULLETS GO?" question, but that's just tough--because it IS an excellent question

It's a pointless distraction. CE 399 could be from the back wound. The throat wound could be from a fragment. Or from the bullet entering by the EOP. Can you show us how this bullet passed through Kennedy and Connally, step by step? Now, THAT'S an excellent question.

that needs to always be asked when arguing with JFK conspiracy theorists about the Single-Bullet Theory, and it's a question that no CTer has ever answered in a believable and reasonable fashion. And the proverbial answer of, "Well, DVP, somebody must have dug those two bullets out of JFK's body before his autopsy", just doesn't even pass the laugh test.
Nonsense.
More:
JFK-Archives.blogspot.com / index / The Single-Bullet Theory

Edited May 28, 2014 by Pat Speer