David Von Pein Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 David von Pein [sic] has NO answers. Robert Prudhomme doesn't either. That's quite obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Ray, How did your TWO bullets manage to enter JFK's upper body and yet CAUSE NO MAJOR DAMAGE at all? Plus, since those TWO bullets of yours caused NO major damage, maybe you can explain to me how **BOTH** of those bullets managed to lose 100% of their velocity and just STOPPED inside Kennedy's soft tissue without exiting? Any ideas, Ray? Nope, because the autopsy wasn't correctly carried out. If we had the full details and the surgeons had done their job, we would be wondering about [things] like that. In other words, not a single person participating in this Education Forum thread can provide any type of reasonable explanation at all for how two separate bullets could go into those known bullet holes in President Kennedy's body and then have those two bullets cause no substantial damage to the internal organs of JFK and then have those two bullets just vanish into thin air. Thank you, Ray, for confirming my suspicions. Edited May 30, 2014 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 David, The focus of this discussion is how did the bullet recognised as CE 399 and is deemed to have been responsible for the seven no fatal injuries to both JFK and JBC. Whether there were more than three bullets involved in the assassination, is a topic that can be addressed later. It is clear you believe that this bullet [ CE 399 ] was responsible for these seven injuries. My question is how did the bullet find a way from entrance to exit in JFK's upper chest. Are you able to address that? If you are not able to explain that, it is quite acceptable to say you do not know. James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Quote from DVP: "Robert Prudhomme doesn't either. That's quite obvious." So, you're admitting you have NO answers, David? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Robert, You are quite right. David does not have an answer, partly because there is no answer. The only way the bullet can find a path from entrance to exit is to smash through the spinal column. There is no way he can admit that. What I find depressing is his inability to even debate and argue. Every time he contributes he veers the debate in any direction but the SBT. It is really ironic, because he usually quite vocal on the merits of the SBT. James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 It is almost as if he has no choice in the matter, James, and is obligated to argue the SBT, regardless of how foolish he looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 He has no choice Robert. I am sure he has realised as I and others - like yourself - have suddenly realised that this issue is the achilles heel of the JFK assassination. To be fair, it was not until I was well into this thread that I fully realised the implications of this issue. True I had mentioned it before, but had never thought the issue through. The WC and the HCSA never addressed this issue..... well they addressed very few issues. This is an issue that has got legs. Where to go from here I am not yet sure, but this might be a way to seriously dismantle the SBT. I can see why David is so terrified and brings into the conversation as many red herrings as he can. He may be an extraordinary poor researcher, but he is not blind to where this debate is going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) James, Nine pathologists far more qualified than James R. Gordon (including even Cyril Wecht) have concluded that one single bullet DID go through the body of John F. Kennedy. The three autopsy surgeons who had their hands on President Kennedy's body on the night of 11/22/63 also concluded (via their signed autopsy report) that a bullet went through the upper portion of John F. Kennedy's body. Quite obviously, James thinks that ALL TWELVE of those medical professionals were completely wrong (or they were just boobs). James, have you ever taken your analysis to anyone connected with the HSCA's FPP to see if they agree with you? If not, why not? Yes, I *am* trusting the HSCA's FPP and the three autopsy doctors concerning this matter. I have no reason to believe that ALL 12 of those individuals got it all screwed up. And furthermore, I have no reason to believe that all twelve of those individuals would be so corrupt and dishonest that they would endorse the conclusion of one bullet transiting JFK's body if, in fact, they really knew for a fact that such a journey was a physical impossibility, as James Gordon seems to believe it is. In short, it is my opinion that those 12 pathologists trump James R. Gordon. So we'll just have to agree to disagree. (Nothing new about that, of course.) And if you, James, still refuse to see the implausibility of your "Two Bullets" theory that must replace the SBT, then I believe you need to re-think the situation. Because whether the SBT is true or not, John Kennedy WAS struck by gunfire in the upper body on 11/22/63. You cannot escape that fact. Which HAS to mean that if the SBT is a fairy tale, some OTHER conclusion must be correct. And from my vantage point, as I said before, ANY "2 bullet" scenario is far more improbable and unbelievable than is the SBT (from a variety of viewpoints too). Edited May 30, 2014 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James R Gordon Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) And these 12 pathologists, can you point me to their descriptions of how the bullet traveled from entrance to exit in JFK upper chest area. I suspect you will not be able to do so, because none of these twelve eminent men ever considered this issue. All twelve ignored the issue, not wilfully, but because not one of them ever thought about it. I have read most of the medical documents for both the WC and the HSCA and I know very well - just as you do - this issue was never examined or discussed. I doubt you even thought about it until this thread. Like so much about the SBT a great deal is based on assumption. Until this thread, neither did I think about it. My focus had been on the impossibility of the JFK throat exit trajectory to line up with John Connally's entrance trajectory. I may not have the reputation of any of these 12 eminent men, but I am now onto this now and I know this is the fatal flaw in the JFK assassination and I won't stop until I can prove it beyond dispute. The entire SBT hinges on the bullet successfully passing through JFK's upper chest. If that can be proved to be impossible - and I believe it can - then you have no single bullet theory. I do not expect you to agree, but I do not doubt for one moment you do not also see the danger this issue presents. I am happy, for the moment, to agree to disagree. But I will be back with this issue later. Edited May 30, 2014 by James R Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Good luck to you, James. A good place for you to start your "The Bullet Path Was Impossible" campaign would be by contacting Dr. Cyril H. Wecht. Cyril should be very eager to see some new evidence to show that the SBT is nothing but a fantasy ----> http://www.cyrilwecht.com Contact and e-mail information ----> http://www.cyrilwecht.com/services.php Edited May 30, 2014 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 LOL @ Davey-boy's story about TWELVE PROFESSIONALS. It reminds of that awful period in Germany's history when Albert Einstein barely escaped with his life from Nazi Germany. Hitler was so upset, he later claimed he had ONE HUNDRED NAZI SCIENTISTS able to disprove every single one of Einstein's theories. It was said Einstein was rather flattered it took so many. Herr von Pein, do you see the irony here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Hi James Upper chest? Heck, I'll settle for how it made it through a stack of cervical and thoracic vertebrae without breaking a single one of them. Now that would be MAGIC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Prudhomme Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 BTW, David von Pein has NO answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Speer Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) And these 12 pathologists, can you point me to their descriptions of how the bullet traveled from entrance to exit in JFK upper chest area. I suspect you will not be able to do so, because none of these twelve eminent men ever considered this issue. All twelve ignored the issue, not wilfully, but because not one of them ever thought about it. I have read most of the medical documents for both the WC and the HSCA and I know very well - just as you do - this issue was never examined or discussed. I doubt you even thought about it until this thread. Like so much about the SBT a great deal is based on assumption. Until this thread, neither did I think about it. My focus had been on the impossibility of the JFK throat exit trajectory to line up with John Connally's entrance trajectory. I may not have the reputation of any of these 12 eminent men, but I am now onto this now and I know this is the fatal flaw in the JFK assassination and I won't stop until I can prove it beyond dispute. The entire SBT hinges on the bullet successfully passing through JFK's upper chest. If that can be proved to be impossible - and I believe it can - then you have no single bullet theory. I do not expect you to agree, but I do not doubt for one moment you do not also see the danger this issue presents. I am happy, for the moment, to agree to disagree. But I will be back with this issue later. I think you're wrong about this, James. Dr. John Nichols' article in which he pointed out that the bullet would have to hit the spine was published in a prestigious medical journal just as the HSCA pathology panel was preparing to inspect the autopsy evidence. It's clear that the HSCA FPP knew about Nichols' conclusion. Their refusal to address this issue, then, sticks out like a sore thumb. This becomes even more clear when one realizes what other tricks were pulled out of the bag. Since the pathology panel thought the trajectory only made sense if Kennedy was leaning sharply forward in a position in which he is not shown in the Zapruder film, they offered their support for the single-bullet theory under the belief he was hit while rapidly leaning forward while behind the sign. When the HSCA photography panel said well wait he was hit before he went behind the sign, the HSCA hired a non-medical person (a trajectory expert from NASA) to reconstruct the shooting. And GAVE him the authority to MOVE THE WOUNDS to make the trajectory work. (This was discussed in detail in my presentation at last year's Lancer conference.) Edited May 31, 2014 by Pat Speer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 (edited) Some "SBT"-related excerpts from Vincent Bugliosi's book: Assassination Arguments (Part 714) / Vince Bugliosi Quotes Edited May 30, 2014 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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