Evan Burton Posted November 23, 2014 Author Share Posted November 23, 2014 First off, they claim it was an "Su-25", Here is an Su-25: Does it look anything like the aircraft in the image? That should immediately tell you that the report may be inaccurate in the detail. Perhaps they meant "MiG-25"? Hmmm - I don't think so: It's not the Su-27 or MiG-29 either. Next, ex-Soviet Bloc pilots were taught to fly attacks under ground radar control, not independently. Just keep that in the back of your mind. Now, the angle shown: At the same time, pilots must remain conscious of the angle between the opponent's velocity vector and their own, called the track crossing angle (TCA), which is important when aligning or avoiding a firing solution. Most importantly, the pilot must remain aware of the angle off tail (AOT), which is the angle between flightpaths.[18] A high AOT causes a high rate of closure, but makes achieving a suitable guns solution nearly impossible. Acquiring a low AOT, (getting on the enemies tail), can decrease or even reverse closure rate, and is usually the primary goal before an overshoot occurs. However, an uncooperative defender may try to take advantage of the high closure rate by turning to increase AOT, forcing an overshoot.[17] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_fighter_maneuvers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 (edited) Thank you. I still wonder if it is not too much combat tactics though? there is no combat in shooting down sucha plane in such conditions. From that distance cannot the pilot know how things will proceed and already be planning the final run? There is no enemy fire or maneuvers to consider? re the profile. I can see when comparing to mig 29 profiles as close to the satellite image is possible one can see how it could be one. In fact I suspect one can if one has access to the image determine the altitude and attitude of the fighter plane very precisely by comparing its image to the known parameters of the boeing. edit add : rough comparison with mig29 Edited November 23, 2014 by John Dolva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Len, Sputnik International is the renamed (as of Nov 10) english edition of RIA Novosty, not obscure. Abbot is a moral midget (compared to for example Gough) pushing the imperialist line. Anything from him must be considered in that context. Afa I know, the report 'everyone' is waiting for won't be ready for some time, perhaps a year. OK great it is a propaganda site for the chief suspects' backers http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2014/11/14/putin-wages-information-war-in-ukraine-worthy-of-george-orwell/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 OMG ! An obscure website back's Gaal's view it must be true! Steve explain to us how your last post about the BBC report contradicts mine. Russia produce radar data which 'proves' military aircraft was flying close to MH17 when it was shot down above Ukraine (CLICK LINK) Russia today produced 'evidence' that it claims shows at least one military aircraft was flying close to Flight MH17 when it was shot down, killing all 298 on board. Data from air traffic controllers in Rostov-on-Don, leaked to a Moscow newspaper, appears to show an unidentified object flying at the time of the crash on 17 July and remaining in the area for 20 minutes after the crash. Russian military experts have previously claimed a Ukrainian war plane shot down the Malaysia Airline flight, but it has taken 119 days for sources to produce the 'proof'. Anonymously leaked unverifiable data, how compelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted December 7, 2014 Share Posted December 7, 2014 one version : "conspiracy organized by the governor of Dnepropetrovsk Kolomoiskiy for the sole purpose - to kill Putin" "returning from Latin America." "attack aircraft pilot, Lieutenant Colonel Dmytro Yakatsuts and air traffic controller, who led the "Boeing" from Dnepropetrovsk, Anna Petrenko." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted December 13, 2014 Share Posted December 13, 2014 (edited) Australian SBS News 'reports' that East Ukraine self-defence forces shot down MH17 = Sat, 2014-12-13 00:07 — James Sinnamon = This article includes Dutch government refuses to reveal 'secret deal' into MH17 crash probe – RT News (20/11/14), MH-17 ‘Investigation': Secret August 8th Agreement Seeps Out – RINF Alternative News (24/8/14), Why Does the West Allow the Ukrainian Government to Write the Official Report on the Shoot-Down of MH-17? – Global Research (21/11/14). Edited December 13, 2014 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 (edited) Shooting Down MH 17 – BUK 312 Story False Says Ukraine Crew Member (CLICK LINK) The shoot down of Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 came into greater focus with the December 15 YouTube video featuring a former crew member of BUK self-propelled fire installation, number 312 (BUK 312). Ukraine’s government and others maintained that the BUK 312 unit shot down MH17 while manned by a resistance crew. The Obama administration championed that narrative holding both the resistance and Russia responsible for the 298 deaths on July 17. The interview was conducted by investigative journalist Anatoly Sharij and translated by Marina Stewart (see full test in English at end of this article). (Image: BUK 312 in Kiev junta terrotiry – Anatoly Sharij) The 23-year-old former BUK 312 crewmember revealed that the missile unit was in fact manned by the Ukraine military. Read more: whatreallyhappened.com http://whatreallyhappened.com/#ixzz3MGBVxD37 Edited December 18, 2014 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dolva Posted December 23, 2014 Share Posted December 23, 2014 © ITAR-TASS/Zurab SDzhavahadze MOSCOW, December 23. /TASS/. Moscow-based popular daily Komsomolskaya Pravda (KP) says it has found new evidence of the Ukrainian military’s involvement in the crash of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 in eastern Ukraine in July, which killed all the passengers and crew aboard. Gallery16 photo Aftermath of Malaysia Airlines Boeing crash A report the daily published at its website says KP journalists have found an eyewitness who told them the airliner had been brought down by a Ukrainian Sukhoi-25 fighter jet with the aid of an air-to-air missile. The man, whose name the KP does not reveal, said he was at the airdrome in the township of Aviatorskoye near the southeastern city of Dnepropetrovsk on the day of the accident and he saw with his own eyes the fighter jet take off for the mission and land after it had been accomplished. “In the second half of the day, roughly an hour before the Boeing was shot down, three fighters took off,” he said. “I don’t remember the time exactly. One of the jets was equipped with the missiles of that class. It was a Sukhoi-25.” “Only one fighter returned,” the eyewitness said. “It was the one that had the missiles suspended below.” When a reporter asked for a clarification on whether the jet had returned with the ammunition still suspended or without it, the man said. “Without it. And the pilot looked really scared.” “The phrase he said after they had taken him out of the jet was: ‘This was a different plane’.” Gallery12 photo Search operation at the site of Malaysia Airlines Boeing crash “Later at night, an officer asked the same guy, Voloshin (the Sukhoi-25 pilot’s name as given to the KP by the eyewitness - TASS), well, what’s with the plane? And the answer was, the plane turned out at a wrong time and at a wrong place.” The Boeing 777 jet of Malaysia Airlines was performing flight MH17 from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur on July 17 with 298 passengers and crew aboard when it crashed for the yet unclear reasons over the much-troubled war-torn Donetsk region of Ukraine. Ukrainian authorities, their Western political associates and media rushed to apportion all blame for the accident to self-defence forces of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic, alleging that the ‘rebels’ had ostensibly used the BUK air defence missile system. Spokespeople for the DPR, as well as Russian officials and military experts have categorically refuted all the allegations regarding the utilization of the BUK or a possible involvement of Russian military advisers in it. The Dutch Safety Council published a report on provisional conclusions of the investigative commission, which said the airliner had disintegrated in midair after being hit by a multitude of objects at high velocity. The final report on the accident is to be published within twelve months following the accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evan Burton Posted December 24, 2014 Author Share Posted December 24, 2014 Unnamed people telling - ummm - 'incredible' stories? I'll wait for the accident investigation board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted December 24, 2014 Share Posted December 24, 2014 (edited) Unnamed people telling - ummm - 'incredible' stories? I'll wait for the accident investigation board. Mr. Burton you dont really follow the issue in a serious manner. You are waiting for the government to tell you what to think. (AS YOU ARE TRAINED TO DO) The rest of us ,who live in the real world will keep thinking...red link shows why you 'wait' in vain. ################################################################################### Another MH17 Cover-Up: Hiding a Key Autopsy (Click link) = Decisive evidence as to how the July 17th shooting-down of the MH17 Malaysian airliner occurred is being hidden by the four-nation team that’s doing the official ‘investigation’ into the plane-downing incident. This decisive evidence is the coroner’s report on the corpse of the airliner’s pilot. If the pilot was killed by bullets, then the standard ‘explanation’ of the downing (that the plane was downed by a ground-fired missile) isn’t just false, it’s an outright hoax. So: where’s the pilot’s autopsy? Read more: whatreallyhappened.com http://whatreallyhappened.com/#ixzz3MpDooev0 ######################################### http://www.globalresearch.ca/why-does-the-west-allow-the-ukrainian-government-to-write-the-official-report-on-the-shoot-down-of-mh-17/5415312 (CLICK LINK) = Global Research, November 21, 2014 ... There are only two suspects in the shoot-down of the MH-17 Malaysian airliner over Ukraine on July 17th: Edited December 29, 2014 by Kathy Beckett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Unnamed people telling - ummm - 'incredible' stories? I'll wait for the accident investigation board. Mr. Burton you dont really follow the issue in a serious manner. You are waiting for the government to tell you what to think. (AS YOU ARE TRAINED TO DO) The rest of us ,who live in the real world will keep thinking...red link shows why you 'wait' in vain. ################################################################################### [. Gaal once again blatantly violated the forum's rules of behavior. He claims to be a devout Christian, aren't Christians supposed to ask themselves WWJD? (What Would Jesus Do?), would Jesus engage in personal attacks? (And on Christmas Eve of all days?) As for the rest AFAIK an airline pilot with no military background is not qualified to distinguish between damage inflicted by missile shrapnel versus cannon fire, especially if he examined photos from the Internet rather than the actual wreckage. In the US medical records are private thus autopsy reports are not normally made public. In some cases summaries of these reports are cited in crash reports once they've been concluded (not while they're being investigated) I imagine the SOP in Europe is the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) post # 36 this thread Why Does the West Allow the Ukrainian Government to Write the Official Report on the Shoot-Down of MH-17? – Global Research (21/11/14). Golly I think its dumb of Burton to honor a report that has a prime suspect of the crime to write the"OFFICIAL" crime report. DUH !?!??? = So Colby also will wait for the accident investigation board ? Jesus wants us to use the brains he has given us. To Love the truth and love one another. Letting a murderer get away with a crime is not respecting the truth.A person who cant live and Love the truth is rejecting the universe and the Creator. I said " sooooooooooooooo sorry Mr. Burton", cause he is not using his brains. Edited December 26, 2014 by Steven Gaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 post # 36 this thread Why Does the West Allow the Ukrainian Government to Write the Official Report on the Shoot-Down of MH-17? – Global Research (21/11/14). Golly I think its dumb of Burton to honor a report that has a prime suspect of the crime to write the"OFFICIAL" crime report. DUH !?!??? Well you obviously did NOT follow the conspiracy kooks claims back to the sources. (How smart is that?) If you had you'd have discovered he was deceptive. This is all based on an article on an obscure Russian language website which is now offline. It indicated the report would only be released with the "consent" of all four parties: Belgium, Netherlands, Australia and Ukraine. I guess that can be construed as giving any one of them "veto" power but it is not true Ukraine will write the report, all credible accounts indicate the Netherlands will lead the investigation. This was already a concession to the political situation, normally the country where a crash takes place leads the investigation. It is my understanding it is SOP to try for a consensus when an investigation is carried out by several countries. = So Colby also will wait for the accident investigation board ? Jesus wants us to use the brains he has given us. To Love the truth and love one another. Letting a murderer get away with a crime is not respecting the truth.A person who cant live and Love the truth is rejecting the universe and the Creator. I said " sooooooooooooooo sorry Mr. Burton", cause he is not using his brains. Gaal you should keep the famous adage about the residents of glass houses in mind before impugning the intelligence of others. Oh and tell us where in the Bible (which you love to thump) there is a passage where Jesus personally insulted someone over a difference of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Colby Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-makes-significant-gains-against-pro-russia-rebels-1406030208 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Gaal Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 http://www.wsj.com/articles/ukraine-makes-significant-gains-against-pro-russia-rebels-1406030208 SO ?? Global Research (29/9/14) by Peter Hasienko, MH17: Nations Conspire To Keep Investigations Classified – Leaked Document Reveals READ MORE: Netherlands rejects MH17 relatives' request for UN investigation ========Dutch not as transparent as u suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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