Evidence for the location of limo at moment first rifle shot is heard

[Robert Mady]

James Jarman (11-24-63 FBI report, CD5 p334-335) “He said that he heard a shot and then saw President Kennedy move his right hand up to his head."

Same as SMITH, MOONEYHAM, ALT, PATERNOSTRO and NORMAN.

Hand to head best describes Z-313, prior to Z-313 KENNEDY reacted by raising both arms to his throat, from far away, when KENNEDY is driven to his left, his right arm can be seen raised up toward his head, JARMAN is describing KENNEDYS reaction to the first rifle shot that caused the fatal head wound

Edited December 11, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

Eighteen witnesses claims have been posted that support the first rifle shot heard to have occurred at Z-313.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

Wright: "The car I was driving had just turned onto Elm Street and approximately 30 feet from the intersection when I heard the first shot.

MRS CABELL: “As my husband has told you, he had his back to the School Depository Building. He was looking back talking to us.
Congressman Roberts was sitting just as this lady is now, and turned the same way. I was turned facing him. We were looking directly at each other, The position of our car was such that when that first shot rang out, my position was such that I did not have to turn to look at the building. I was directly facing it.”

MR CABELL: “Mr. CABELL - Well, we were just rounding the corner of Market and Elm, making the left turn, when the first shot rang out.”

The occupants of CABELLS vehicle claimed to have already made the turn around the corner or had just completed the turn. The sound of the first rifle shot could not have come before Z-313. WRIGHT puts the vehicle 30 feet from the corner after having made the turn onto Elm.

For reference see Altgens #6, this is taken at Z-255, CABELLS vehicle is not yet visible on Elm street it should be almost where you see the VP- follow-up vehicle in A6, this is the location where the occupants claimed to have heard the first rifle shot.

That makes 21 witnesses.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

STEVEN WILSON FBI;" As the motorcade proceeded, my view of the President KENNEDY and his car and the other occupants became obscured by trees which are on Elm Street.

In a matter of 10 seconds or less after the President's car and occupants were obscured from my view by the trees, I heard three shots.

WILSON is located in a window in the TSBD, if the limo becomes obscured around Z-133. 10 seconds = 10 X 18 fps = 180 frames + 133 frames puts the first shot at exactly frame ~Z-313.

I would argue that this is exactly what WILSON intended, that the first rifle shot occurred within 10 seconds after WILSON lost sight of the limo.

Wilson has to considered to be another witness that supports the first shot coming at Z-313, that makes 22 witnesses.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Robert Prudhomme]

Jon G. Tidd

How do you think it came about that a bullet entered JFK's back at about the level of thoracic vertebra T3, and only caused a shallow wound?

[Robert Prudhomme]

Robert Mady

Do you have any experience with rifles equipped with suppressors (silencers)?

[Robert Mady]

Mr. MILLER – FBI: “Yes sir; it came down main street and turned north on Houston Street and went over two blocks and turned left on Elm Street. Got about halfway down the hill going toward the underpass and that is when as I recall the first shot was fired.”

Mr. MILLER – AFFIDAVIT: “It had preceeded about halfway from Houston Street to the underpass when I heard what sounded like a shot a short second two were sharp reports.

LOVELADE – AFFIDAVIT: ”After he had passed and was about 50 yards past us I heard three shots.”

SSA LAWSON – REPORT: “As the Lead Car was passing under this bridge I heard the first loud, sharp report and in more rapid succession two more sounds like gunfire.”

JOHN HOEFEN riding in Press car #1: “We were making a sweeping curve here on a roadway approaching a freeway when the first shot rang out

Miller claims the limo was half way to the Triple Underpass, this is about the location where the limo is in frame Z-313

LOVELADY, 50 yards from the steps of the TSBD is at location where limo would be at Z-313

SSA LAWSON must be describing the first rifle sound at Z-313, if it is earlier then an explanation must be forthcoming to explain why the lead car was 60, 70 or maybe more yards in front on the limo.

HOEFEN is riding in CC#1 vehicle, it is three cars behind the VP-follow-up car. If they are making the turn onto Elm then the first shot heard can not be prior to Z-313

That makes 26 witnesses that support the first rifle shot they heard to be at Z-313.

Does any one not agree so far with the evidence presented, the analysis or any of the conclusions?

Edited December 11, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

Robert, I have no experience with weapons equipped with silencers other than the movies.

Why do you believe this was a weapon with a silencer?

Are you stuck on the silenced weapon being of conventional technology?

Why not a weapon powered by compressed gas? These weapons are much quieter even without silencer technology, how quiet do you think they could be with a bit of research.

Note compressed gas powered rifles have been in service of military for hundreds of years.

Wouldn't the CIA research weapons specially made for assassination, with maximum stealth.

This was a silent weapon, not a silenced weapon.

[Robert Mady]

Pat: "Well, we can agree on something Robert. In chapters 5 through 9 of my website I present the statements, testimony and comments of all the witnesses to the shooting. I did this to show that the first shot did not miss, as claimed by LNs. But I was surprised to find that the evidence also suggested that the second shot of the three shots heard by most witnesses was the head shot, and not the last shot."

Pat I believe there might be some confusion as to what the witnesses actually are claiming to have seen, if the scenario is viewed with the understanding that witnesses were not aware of the first silent shot or aware of the fact that KENNEDY was wounded prior to the fatal head shot, that rifle shots came Bham - 3 seconds - Bham.Bham then the testimony makes sense.

After the first rifle shot heard (Z-313) the President 'slumped' to his left, after the second rifle shot heard (Z-325) JACKIE got up and the President fell over into the seat AND out of view, witnesses could not possibly know that these two shots did not both hit KENNEDY, from afar it would have looked like KENNEDY had reacted to both shots. This is why some testimony makes it appear that KENNEDY was hit on both first and second rifle shots heard, these reports have nothing to do with shot coming prior to Z-313.

Edited December 12, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Robert Mady]

Witnesses claimed to see KENNEDY "slump" this was after the fatal head shot, not the neck wound, the WC made it appear that witnesses heard the shot that wounded KENNEDY in the throat and termed his reaction 'slumped', this is a lie and a deception.

Witnesses did not notice KENNEDY reacting to being wounded in the throat, they saw his reaction to being fatally hit in the head and then after the second rifle shot when KENNEDY could be seen falling into the seat.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Pat Speer]

Pat, a question about the back wound, which Burkeley put at T3 and which many including I believe was a shallow wound.

I have read that the top of the back seat of the limo had a visible tear. I've come to suspect the back wound was caused by a bullet that struck and tore the top of the back seat before striking JFK's back. Do you have any view or information that is either consistent or inconsistent with what I suspect? Thanks.

I hadn't heard that there was tear in the seat. Do you recall where you read this?

One of the recurrent arguments for the SBT is that there was no damage to the seats. If there was a tear in the seat, even the rear seat, that's significant, IMO.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Why don't you slow down a bit and listen to what others have to say? You have got a severe case of tunnel vision, and can't see the forest for the trees.

Think of this possibility. JFK was shot in the back, at about the level of thoracic vertebra T3, and about 1.5-2 inches to the right of the spine. This shot occurred before JFK emerged from behind the Stemmons sign. Contrary to popular belief, this was not a shallow wound but, rather, the bullet entered the top of JFK's right lung. This bullet also stayed in JFK's right lung and disintegrated there, preventing it from exiting his chest. JFK suffered a condition in his right lung called a "pneumothorax" and, if one looks closely at the Parkland medical evidence, there is much to support this. This miraculous occurrence was brought about by a bullet known as a "hollow point frangible", a very unique bullet I will tell you more about, if you are willing to listen.

This shot was heard by a number of witnesses, though by no means all of them, at the upper end of Elm St. A quick look at the Altgens 6 will show you the majority of upper Elm St. witnesses either did not hear this shot or, if they did, did not immediately recognize it as a rifle shot. As you have pointed out, the witnesses at the lower end of Elm St. did not hear the shot that hit JFK in the back. There is a VERY good reason for all of this, but first you must understand that not all witnesses in Dealey Plaza heard the same thing. This was by design, and not by accident.

As I have pointed out many times, a suppressor mounted on a rifle will eliminate 100% of the muzzle blast, thus hiding the origin of a shot, but does NOTHING to hide the sound of a supersonic bullet breaking the sound barrier. However, this supersonic "crack", much like a bullwhip's crack, tends to be a localized phenomenon easily masked by loud background noises, and limited to a relatively small area of influence. Proof of this can be seen in the Altgens 6 photo. Two SS agents, Connally and a motorcycle cop are all reacting to something unusual, and that something is a bullet breaking the sound barrier within a few feet of each of them two to three seconds before this photo was taken. However, the bystanders are not reacting as, due to the sound of the motorcycles, the cars and the crowd, the crack of the bullet passing is just part of the background noise. People further down Elm St. do not hear it because the sonic boom stopped when the bullet struck JFK's back. For various not easily explained reasons, some people at the upper end of Elm St. (ie. Willis and his daughter) were able to hear the suppressed shot rather well, but were definitely under the impression it was not a normal shot, and more akin to a firecracker.

I highly recommend you try to find someone with a suppressed rifle, and stand well off to the side when that rifle is fired. I think you will understand what I am saying much better once you have experienced this.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Robert Prudhomme

[Robert Mady]

Robert, this thread does not concern the first silent shot, you asked me about silencers I gave you my opinion.

If you look at the evidence in the Zapruder film you will see that LANDIS, READY, HICKEY and HILL look to the gk after Z-190 (BENNETT can be seen to look to gk in Willis #5) in reaction to a sound and continue to look that direction until at least z-212 when they are lost from sight. HILL continues to look to the limo until Z-233 and then into the follow-up car until Z-249. The MC police are aware of the disturbance in the limo that is all. READY, LANDIS and HICKEY continue to scan the crowd for the source of the noise, this is what is happening in A6. MCINTYRE remains oblivious to any sound.

YOU must read the testimony to understand that LANDIS, READY, HICKEY and HILL claimed to hear the first sound, they all react simultaneously at only one point in the Zapruder film this is after Z-190, HILL cements the timing of this event in that he claimed to look toward the limo at that moment and witnessed odd activity from the President. There can be no doubt that the noise occurs around Z-190.

WILLIAM NEWMAN and GAYLE NEWMAN heard the 'firecracker' like sounds from the silent weapon and noticed JFK have a slight reaction to the noise, they claimed the shots came from behind them.

HARGIS and MARTIN do not look to the limo until after Z-240, when CONNALLY starts to turn towards the back seat and JACKIE reaches out to support KENNEDY. HARGIS, MARTIN, CHANEY and JACKSON all look to the monument area after the rifle shot at Z-313. The MC police escorting at no time can be seen to look behind them in any photographic record.

What you are saying is that at least 2 SSA heard a high powered rifle shot and did nothing. I don't believe this, I don't believe any SSA stood down while JACKIE who had to have heard a rifle shot held KENNEDY steady so they could get in one final shot. If you can understand what JACKIE said, she turned toward JFK because CONNALLY was yelling, not because she heard a noise or a rifle shot. How could the CONNALLYS have heard rifle shots and JACKIE only heard CONNALLY yelling. There is a lie there that you must discern. Do you believe JACKIE or the CONNALLYS? CONNALLY reacted to seeing the Umbrella Man not the sounds from a rifle.

Why not take a look at CONNALLY, a nurse claimed that when he was brought into the hospital he literally screamed with every breath he tried to take, the wound was so painful. CONNALLY is shot thu the chest but he turns around to look into the back seat, claims to have been yelling that they are going to kill us all and then lays back on top of NELLIE, can you show us in any Zapruder frame a look of pain on the face of CONNALLY or evidence of his screams and how did he yell anything when he should have been grasping for a breath?

The shallow wound in the back was created to provide the alibi for being able to obtain a 'pristine' bullet which was meant to provide an undeniable connection to the MC rifle. The wound is not real just as the 'pristine' bullet is not real.

Posted is evidence from 26 witnesses that support first shot heard was at Z-313, I can see now that it will not matter if I go thru the entire list of witnesses, it will not alter any thinking.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Robert Mady

[Pamela Brown]

The HSCA SB scenario posits that shot coming at around Z-190.

[Robert Mady]

Pamela, I will not entertain the notion that the SB theory has a even a shred of possibility.

A government body is not going to provide us with truth, they lied since the beginning, the government along with their tools the news media maintain the lie today while crushing the truth from existance.