Was Oswald an Intelligence Agent?

[Jon G. Tidd]

Stephen Roy,

I believe you are trying to determine what James Angleton was trying to determine: Whether Oswald ("Harvey" I believe) was acting as an agent for some intelligence service.

The consensus here and elsewhere is that he was. I'm not so sure.

The person who makes a good agent is, first, someone who has access to valuable information. An agent's job is to provide such information to "the other side." The person who makes a good agent has a good reason for wanting to help "the other side." The reason might be personal (anger, political leanings, etc.) or might be some inducement such as money.

Let's think about Oswald. Did he have access to information the U.S. wanted? I think he did, both in the USSR and in NOLA.

Did he have a good reason for wanting to help some "side" such as the U.S.? That's where things get murky. Where did his loyalties lie? Did he have income for which there is no explanation?

To assess whether Oswald was an agent one must ask whether he had a reason to share what he had learned in the USSR or on the streets of NOLA with some agency that wanted to know what he had learned. I've yet to see such a reason.

[Paul Brancato]

Jon - the question revolves around semantics. Agent, asset, informer, and other more subtle gradations. I believe it was Bill Kelly who posted a complete glossary. If Oswald was not involved in some capacity in Intelligence operations, why was he surrounded by intelligence operations and characters? How can we determine his relative usefulness? That was up to the person or persons using him. He was important enough to the CIA that they segregated his 201file and kept their actual knowledge of his life actions and movements close to their vests and shared considerably less than they knew to everyone else.

[Don Jeffries]

Probably the single most telling aspect of Oswald's life was his close friendship with George DeMohrenschildt. It is simply not fathomable that a cultured, much older man of such a background would ever encounter a low-wage earner like Oswald, outside of the workforce, where they would have only had an impersonal business relationship.

DeMohrenschildt came from a very wealthy White Russian family, and when they emigrated to America, they became close to the Bouviers, Jacqueline Kennedy's family. According to author Russ Baker, young Jackie was so close to Oswald's future best friend that she called him "Uncle George."

Class distinctions would have expressly prevented the worlds of Oswald and DeMohrenschild from ever having collided. The idea that they were intimate social friends is laughable. DeMohrenschildt was attracted to Oswald for some other reason, and the most logical explanation is that the older man was "handling" him in some manner related to the world of Intelligence.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Don Jeffries

[Larry Hancock]

This is really not that much of a mystery, we know that DeMohrenschildt was asked by a local CIA domestic officer to watch for the Oswald's families return, to monitor his reentry and to collect information on him. He did so and passed it back to the CIA officer, just as he had routinely shared information before. That part is all from his own testimony. Beyond that its pretty clear the he helped pay to get Oswald started on his manuscript, which was in essence a complete debrief of his Russian experience, obtained a copy of it and most likely shared that as well. Whether or not the manuscript would have been used for propaganda purposes - since it was assertively anti-Soviet and anti CPUSA - remains a question as it appears that Oswald was moved off into other "dangle" type activities at that point, primarily targeting the FPCC.

All in all an excellent example of the subtle and professional way domestic intelligence operated - and likely still does.

[Jon G. Tidd]

Paul Brancato @ post #62

In seeking to understand the CIA's involvement with Oswald it's necessary to understand the difference between two intelligence functions. Those functions are collection and counter-intelligence. On the collection side, case officers use agents to gain information. On the counter-intelligence side, C.I. operatives seek to uncover opposition agents and their case officers and to prevent such agents from gaining access to protected information.

There is nothing I've seen in the available record that tells me Oswald ("Harvey") was gathering information and passing it on to a case officer (either directly or via some intermediary). On the other hand, Oswald might have had access to information someone wanted. Such as, the general mood of the populace in Minsk; the particular components used in manufacture at the Minsk radio factory where he worked; the names of individuals who approached him in NOLA about wanting to support FPCC; and so on. So Oswald might have been viewed by some intelligence service as having agent potential. In such a situation, it's possible he was being watched for potential recruitment by the collection side of an intelligence service and at the same time was being watched by the counter-intelligence side of the intelligence service.

It's quite possible he was being watched by more than one intelligence service.

It's also quite possible Oswald was rubbing elbows with persons who were working for one or more intelligence services. In this case, it might appear Oswald is consciously serving the interests of one or more intelligence services. In fact, he may be; or he may not be. Just because, for example, I hang out in a NOLA bar where police intel officers and FBI agents wet their whistle doesn't mean I'm working for or with them even if we share smokes and jokes.

[Don Jeffries]

I agree with you, Larry, that there was no mystery about their relationship. That was my point- they were such an incongruent pair, and thus their "friendship" would be unexplainable outside of the clandestine world.

I don't there is any clearer indication that Oswald was connected to the world of Intelligence.

[Jon G. Tidd]

Larry,

If you are are C.I. officer assigned to the 112th M.I. Group in 1962-63 and your job is to keep tabs on Lee Harvey Oswald ("Harvey" let's say) in Dallas, what do you make of him? Is he a CIA agent because DeMohrenschildt invited him and Marina to a dinner party? Or because, as you learn, DeMohrenschildt is also keeping tabs on Oswald? How do you size up their relationship based on what you observe?

[Larry Hancock]

That's a great question Jon, especially since I've actually looked at a good deal of the 112th info on Oswald. At least based on the parts we can see, they really began tracking him based on reports circulated from New Orleans since that was in their geographic area of responsibility. Actually it was one of their agents who first picked up an Oswald leaflet from his picketing in the area of a Navy ship. However the reports they were primarily receiving were FBI reports related to his FPCC activities including some interesting speculation on whether or not there really was a NO FPCC group and whether or not Hidell was a real person or another name being used by Oswald.

It appears that the 112th was relying on the FBI to investigate Oswald and that their view, based in the file, was that he was suspect as a Castro sympathizer and organizer. However I recall no reports being filed on him after his return to Dallas. The CIA was sharing info about his appearance in Mexico but I would need to check to see how that was being circulated; I don't think it got back to the 112th. However if it had, they should have put him under watch since the MIG units were being tasked with monitoring anybody trying to come and go to Cuba. The interesting thing is how much they would have seen of his full background - like the DeMohrenschildt info - even if they had requested it from the FBI. If the FBI was really handling him as a subversive subject - which Hosty intimated in his Saturday remarks - they they would probably have gotten noting.

But to really answer your question, if I was 112th and knew about the relationship, I would not suspect Oswald was an agent or even a source, I would assume his was person of interest and an intel target. A little inquiry on DeMohrenschildt would tell me that he was a cooperative individual, providing info to the intel community and at best I would guess the CIA or FBI had already lined him up to report on Oswald.

[David Andrews]

What if one of the missions presented to Oswald, being a dangle made attractive to both left and right groups because of his defector status, is to report on DeMohrenschildt and the White Russian community in Dallas?

A mission presented to him, but not real except in involving Oswald with provocative and inculpatory associates.

Edited December 19, 2014 by David Andrews

[Jon G. Tidd]

David Andrews,

To extend your question, one might ask whether the purpose of Marina's living with Ruth Paine was to provide "Harvey" with a cover story for meeting with Ruth Paine.

[William Kelly]

Sorry about the typos and the dupe edit but my laptop is down and I'm working from my IPhone -

But if you read or see the film Spy Come In From the Cold - such field operatives are only given what they need and untraceable funds - Veciana was given job at American embassy but also had a covert salary that Phillips kept in bank account until he parted with his agent after a decade - and gave him the full account in cash $200,000 + when he was promoted to the desk job of Chief of Western Hemisphere Division - # 3 position in the CIA - with unlimited access to covert unaccountable funds.

The spy in Le Clare's book was given jobs by going through ciivil employment agency - by an agent who worked there - just as Oswald got job at Jaggers-Chiles-Stoval from wife of FBI agent whose sons broke into the Vegas apartment of Judy Campbell Extner.

Oswald always had the cash he needed to do what he was required to do.

David Atlee Phillips' book on Occupations in Intelligence and Nightwatch also demonstrates how such operatives are paid,

BK

[Larry Hancock]

The other thing we have to keep in mind is that deep stuff is always heavily compartmentalized and everybody does their day job. It would have been only reasonable for CIA domestic ops to us a willing source such as DeMorhrenschildt to monitor Oswald's return - and he was advised well before the couple arrived. That would be irrespective of any deeper games already in play or other activities that might develop later. The same is true for the FBI, the regular field offices would treat Oswald like a person of interest based on his public activities while the subversive division might have their own compartmentalized effort with or around him. And source/informant files could well be held separately. When Hosty told the Secret Service agent that Oswald had been monitored in subversive contacts only weeks before, that is apparently something he was told verbally....not something in the standard office file.

-- we have to remember that such procedures were SOP, designed for layers of security both internal and external, not just to frustrate us......which of course is not much consolation

[Jon G. Tidd]

Bill Kelly @71

If you are a 112th MI Group C.I. officer keeping tabs on "Harvey" 1962-63, you are going to look for indications "Harvey" is spending more money than you know he receives from his visible source(s) of income.

Bill, have you ever analyzed Oswald ("Harvey") in this way?

[Paul Brancato]

Jon - didn't the 112th claim they had no records on Oswald?

[Larry Hancock]

Jon may have a better answer but I can tell you that on Nov 22, they certainly did and even referenced the use of the Hidell name from their own Oswald file - which contained copies of FBI reports as well as newspaper reports from New Orleans. That also included their own field agent's report from NO with a report on the Navy ship leafleting. I have a good number of 112th documents, including those although more may be available now.