Proof of Motorcade Stopping?

[Glenn Nall]

...Lee Bowers and the railroad men all agreed they saw "a puff of smoke" between the trees by the picket fence of the Grassy Knoll when JFK was murdered. You have seen the badgeman photo with the smoke from the rifle. right?

I'm interested in the Badgeman, too, Kenneth. Yet it seems to me that the explosion of Badgeman's rifle triggering its bullet was a brief flash of gunpowder, and not actually a puff of smoke.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul, are you saying that a 'brief flash of gunpowder' is not as proof of a rifle shot as 'gunsmoke' would be? I'd never thought of that.

he ignored my attempt at the same point, too, Ken. we have a DVP II in the making...

[Paul Trejo]

...Lee Bowers and the railroad men all agreed they saw "a puff of smoke" between the trees by the picket fence of the Grassy Knoll when JFK was murdered. You have seen the badgeman photo with the smoke from the rifle. right?

...It seems to me that the explosion of Badgeman's rifle triggering its bullet was a brief flash of gunpowder, and not actually a puff of smoke.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul, are you saying that a 'brief flash of gunpowder' is not as proof of a rifle shot as 'gunsmoke' would be? I'd never thought of that.

he ignored my attempt at the same point, too, Ken. we have a DVP II in the making...

Sorry, guys. Let me try again. Of course a flash of gunpowder is proof of a rifle shot. Was I really that unclear?

All I was trying to say is that the phrase, "puff of smoke" and the phrase "flash of gunfire" evoke widely different images to me.

The three railroad men on the Triple Underpass all agreed seeing a "puff of smoke" between the trees by the picket fence on the Grassy Knoll. Lee Bowers, from the other side of the fence, saw two men standing in the opening between the pergola and the stockade fence at the moment of the shooting, and he also saw that "there was a flash of light or smoke" in their vicinity.

That complicates things -- light *or* smoke. Maybe people are using firearm terms in local ways.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited August 8, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Glenn Nall]

it was unclear by the fact that you argued the puff of smoke for whatever reason, when the context was that the smoke implied a firearm.

[Paul Trejo]

it was unclear by the fact that you argued the puff of smoke for whatever reason, when the context was that the smoke implied a firearm.

Well, Glenn, the term "puff of smoke" was not my own, but was used by the railroad men.

Anyway, I already admitted my ignorance about rifles and guns, and so the buzzwords can get past me. No big deal.

Besides, this theme is a long way away from the theme of this thread -- Proof of Motorcade Stopping.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Glenn Nall]

you asked if you were really that unclear. "Was I really that unclear?"

i explained why you were. if you don't want the answer, maybe you ought not ask the question.

" Besides, this theme is a long way away from the theme of this thread "

that's rich, Paul, considering that this is what i had to prod you with about 8 pages back when you were trying to sell Gen Walker in this thread about the Limo Stopping.

[Kenneth Drew]

...Lee Bowers and the railroad men all agreed they saw "a puff of smoke" between the trees by the picket fence of the Grassy Knoll when JFK was murdered. You have seen the badgeman photo with the smoke from the rifle. right?

...It seems to me that the explosion of Badgeman's rifle triggering its bullet was a brief flash of gunpowder, and not actually a puff of smoke.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul, are you saying that a 'brief flash of gunpowder' is not as proof of a rifle shot as 'gunsmoke' would be? I'd never thought of that.

he ignored my attempt at the same point, too, Ken. we have a DVP II in the making...

Sorry, guys. Let me try again. Of course a flash of gunpowder is proof of a rifle shot. Was I really that unclear?

All I was trying to say is that the phrase, "puff of smoke" and the phrase "flash of gunfire" evoke widely different images to me.

The three railroad men on the Triple Underpass all agreed seeing a "puff of smoke" between the trees by the picket fence on the Grassy Knoll. Lee Bowers, from the other side of the fence, saw two men standing in the opening between the pergola and the stockade fence at the moment of the shooting, and he also saw that "there was a flash of light or smoke" in their vicinity.

That complicates things -- light *or* smoke. Maybe people are using firearm terms in local ways.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Paul, the people said they saw a puff of smoke and it is obvious from the Moorman photo that there was a 'puff of smoke' from badgeman. I've just always assumed that they are/were both correct. I don't see any conflict. I don't think there's much chance at all that there WAS NOT a shot from the knoll/picket fence.

[Paul Trejo]

Paul, the people said they saw a puff of smoke and it is obvious from the Moorman photo that there was a 'puff of smoke' from badgeman. I've just always assumed that they are/were both correct. I don't see any conflict. I don't think there's much chance at all that there WAS NOT a shot from the knoll/picket fence.

If that's what they meant by those words, then, fine.

I agree with you, Kenneth, that shots came from the front of JFK, and in fact I don't really dally with debating the Lone Nut theory -- except to explain how it was created and how it was perpetuated.

IMHO it was National Security that obliged Hoover, LBJ, Warren and Dulles to force the ridiculous Lone Nut theory upon the American Media. That does not prove, IMHO, that the Government (the JFK Cover-up Team) was cooperating with the JFK Kill Team in Dallas.

I find it impossible to believe that the US Secret Service was 100% functional on that day -- and it seems to me that SS Agent Forrest Sorrels, residing in Dallas, might have become infected by the Radical Right wing in Dallas. Especially if James Hosty was.

How much Sorrels might have been able to influence others in the Secret Service, I've not yet researched.

To bring this back to the thread theme -- I have no problem believing that the JFK limo slowed down to 5mph at the site of the gutter drain on Elm, or that as many as 7 shots rang out.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited August 9, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Kenneth Drew]

Paul, the people said they saw a puff of smoke and it is obvious from the Moorman photo that there was a 'puff of smoke' from badgeman. I've just always assumed that they are/were both correct. I don't see any conflict. I don't think there's much chance at all that there WAS NOT a shot from the knoll/picket fence.

If that's what they meant by those words, then, fine.

I agree with you, Kenneth, that shots came from the front of JFK, and in fact I don't really dally with debating the Lone Nut theory -- except to explain how it was created and how it was perpetuated.

IMHO it was National Security that obliged Hoover, LBJ, Warren and Dulles to force the ridiculous Lone Nut theory upon the American Media. That does not prove, IMHO, that the Government (the JFK Cover-up Team) was cooperating with the JFK Kill Team in Dallas.

I find it impossible to believe that the US Secret Service was 100% functional on that day -- and it seems to me that SS Agent Forrest Sorrels, residing in Dallas, might have become infected by the Radical Right wing in Dallas. Especially if James Hosty was.

How much Sorrels might have been able to influence others in the Secret Service, I've not yet researched.

To bring this back to the thread theme -- I have no problem believing that the JFK limo slowed down to 5mph at the site of the gutter drain on Elm, or that as many as 7 shots rang out.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

I find it impossible to believe that the US Secret Service was 100% functional on that day Bingo! It actually would be hard to find anything that they did correctly that day. Wrong line up of vehicles, crowds into the streets, no motorcycles beside limo, no SS on limo running boards, open windows on high rise bldgs. Open top on limo, limo speed at or near zero, On and on. Someone had to be involved in the hit.

[Paul Trejo]

"I find it impossible to believe that the US Secret Service was 100% functional on that day" Bingo! It actually would be hard to find anything that they did correctly that day. Wrong line up of vehicles, crowds into the streets, no motorcycles beside limo, no SS on limo running boards, open windows on high rise bldgs. Open top on limo, limo speed at or near zero, On and on. Someone had to be involved in the hit.

Yes, a number of people were involved in the JFK hit -- however we should resist jumping to conclusions and consider:

(1) The killers of JFK were not promoting a Lone Gunman, but a Communist Gunman.

(2) The "Lone Gunman" Cover-up of the crime was invented by the FBI quickly after the murder, and pursued in the interest of National Security -- not for the protection of the JFK killers.

(3) Although the US Government chose to hide the full details of the murder from the American public until 75 years after the crime (later reduced by President GHW Bush to 26 October 2017, the deadline of the ARRB), in fact the US Government figured out all the details of the murder, including all the members of the conspiracy. The records were preserved and will be released to us in October 2017.

Whether the limo stopped or only slowed down -- the likelihood of Secret Service complicity at some degree in the JFK murder appears to be certain. Here's the most benign slant I can give it:

(i) Dallas Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels was drafted into the Dallas plot by members of the Extreme Right in Dallas.

(ii) Forrest Sorrels kept the Washington DC members of the Secret Service out way too late the night before, and got as many of them as drunk as possible.

(iii) Therefore, the Secret Service on 11/22/1963 were sloppy and unprepared for duty.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited August 20, 2015 by Paul Trejo

[Glenn Nall]

fantastic video of a 1200 ft/s gunshot/muzzle blast on a Phantom v2010 camera at >>> 73,000 frames per second. worth watching. (it's Adam and Jamie from MythBusters, good stuff).

i couldn't figure out how to embed it:

https://youtu.be/7y9apnbI6GA

Edited August 21, 2015 by Glenn Nall

[Robert Prudhomme]

fantastic video of a 1200 ft/s gunshot/muzzle blast on a Phantom v2010 camera at >>> 73,000 frames per second. worth watching. (it's Adam and Jamie from MythBusters, good stuff).

i couldn't figure out how to embed it:

https://youtu.be/7y9apnbI6GA

Wow, amazing piece of film. It makes you wonder how a camera can take 73,000 frames per second, doesn't it.

(good thing they were using smokeless powder, eh?)

[Kenneth Drew]

They didn't say the what the playback speed was, but I'd say it took the bullet with a 1200FPS muzzle velocity about 30 sec to travel about a foot. So does that mean the playback would be about 73000/1200/30 or about 2 frames per second ? so from extremely fast to very slow.