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Guest Mark Valenti

Was it Lansdale?

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I'm not saying the CIA wrote the book, but they certainly could have influenced it. An Operation Mockingbird type of thing, maybe. Who knows?

Having William Colby writing the forward certainly isn't a good sign.

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Guest Mark Valenti   
Guest Mark Valenti

Well sure, if we are going to throw out theories, maybe the same ghostwriter wrote both books.

The truth is that Prouty slammed Lansdale, and Lansdale slammed Prouty in those books.

Prouty makes Lansdale into a CIA toady.

Lansdale portrays Prouty as a nut.

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This is not the biography of a nut:

BIOGRAPHY

Col. L. Fletcher Prouty (USAF, Retired)

Born: Springfield, Mass., January 24, 1917. Attended public schools. President, High School Student Government. Member, undefeated Golf Team. Vocalist with Big Bands, sang in most large dance halls, hotels and colleges in Northeast. Graduate: Mass. State College 1941, A.B. degree and 2nd Lt. Commission, U.S. Cavalry.

Fletch1.jpg

June 1941

Began military career with 4th Armored Division, Pine Camp, NY. At Communications Officer School, Ft. Knox, KY, on December 7, 1941[Pearl Harbor]. Transferred to Air Force 1942. Earned Pilot's wings November, 1942. Arrived British West Africa [Ghana], February 1943 as pilot with Air Transport Command.

Assigned to V.I.P. flying, summer 1943. Personal pilot for Gen. Omar Bradley, Gen. J. C. H. Lee and Gen. C. R. Smith (Founder and President - American Airlines), among others. Landed U.S. Geological Survey Team in Saudi Arabia, Oct 1943, to confirm oil discoveries for Cairo Conference.

Assigned special duties at Cairo and Teheran Conferences, November-December 1943. Flew Chiang Kai Shek's Chinese delegation (T.V. Soong's delegates) to Teheran.

Chief Pilot (1,200 pilots), Cairo for Air Transport Command. Led special air mission into Soviet Union, and others into Turkey, 1944. Evacuated "Guns of Navaronne" British commandos from Turkey to Palestine. Assisted in capture of leader of German Gold smuggling ring (The actor, Bruce Cabot) in Turkey and Cairo. Led large flight of transport aircraft to Turkish-Syrian border to evacuate 750 American POW's and OSS-selected Ex-Nazi Intelligence experts from the Balkans, September 1944. The first "overt" Cold War mission.

1945

Transferred to SW Pacific, flew in New Guinea, Leyte and was on Okinawa at end of war.

OKINAWA.jpg

Landed near Tokyo at surrender with first three planes carrying Gen. MacArthur's bodyguard troops. Flew out with American POWs. Photographed Hiroshima, that date.
T33.jpg
1946-49

Assigned by Army to Yale University to begin first USAF ROTC program. Taught "Aeronautics" and "Evolution of Warfare". Transferred to U.S. Air Force ROTC headquarters to write college text books. Wrote the college textbook on "Aeronautics" and another on "Rockets and Missiles".

1950-52

Transferred to Colorado Springs to establish Air Defense Command. There, Director, Personnel Planning for Command (77,000 men) and first to put personnel records on Computer. Attended Nuclear Weapons school, Sandia, N.M. Selected for Air Force Command and Staff College, Montgomery, Ala.

1952-54

Assigned to Korean War duties in Japan. Military Manager, Tokyo International Airport (Haneda) during Occupation. Commander, Military Air Transport Service, Heavy Transport Squadron responsible for military and diplomatic flights from Tokyo to Saudi Arabia and back, in addition to daily flights to Korea, Honolulu and Pacific Islands. Founder, Tokyo Toastmasters Club.

Attended, JCS operated Armed Forces Staff College, Norfolk, 1955

1955-1964

Assigned to Headquarters, U.S. Air Force and directed to create an Air Force world-wide system for "Military Support of the Clandestine Operations of the CIA", as required by a new National Security Council Directive, 5412 of March, 1954. Wrote this policy in conjunction with Air Force General Counsel and CIA's General Counsel. Set up a TOP SECRET world wide support force and communications system. Was sent around the world by the Director, Central Intelligence, Allen W. Dulles, to meet the CIA Station Chiefs, 1956. Directed Air Force participation in countless CIA operations during this period.

As a result of a CIA Commendation for this work, awarded the Legion of Merit by the Air Force.

Merit.jpg

Photo: Colonel Prouty receiving the Legion of Merit

Promoted to Colonel and assigned to the Office of the Secretary of Defense to carry out this same type of work for all military services. Assigned to the Office of Special Operations.

With the creation of the Defense Intelligence Agency by Secretary McNamara and the abolishment of the OSO, was transferred to the Office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to create a similar, world-wide office and was the Chief of Special Operations, with the Joint Staff all during 1962-1963.

1963


Received orders to travel as the Military Escort officer for a group of VIPs who were being flown to the South Pole.

Nov 10 - Nov 28, 1963, to activate a Nuclear Power plant for heat, light and sea water desalination at the U.S. Navy Base at McMurdo Sound, Antarctica.

Retired as Colonel, U.S. Air Force, 1964 and was awarded one of the first three Joint Chiefs of Staff Commendation Medals by General Maxwell Taylor, Chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff.

1964-1965

VP International Operations, General Aircraft Corporation... a company created by MIT and Harvard specialists that designed and built aircraft that were used by the CIA and Army Special Forces.

1965-1968

VP-Manager, Pentagon Branch, First National Bank, Arlington, VA, later VP-Marketing, 1965-1968. VP-Marketing, Madison National Bank, Washington, DC, 1968-1971.

Graduate, Graduate School of Banking, University of Wisconsin, 1966 - 1968.

Charter Member, American Bankers Association committee for Automation, Planning and Technology to develop plans to convert all U.S. banks to automation, including the Federal Reserve System.

President, Financial Marketing Council of Greater Washington, D.C. Member, Advertising Club of Washington, D.C.

1971 AMTRAK, as Manager, created nationwide Government and Military Marketing organization. Senior Director, Public Affairs, corporate speechwriter for Presidents and members of the Board, 1972-1982. Retired.

Author, Public Speaker, radio and TV, 1950 to present. Book "The Secret Team", Prentice-Hall, 1973, and paperback by Ballantine, 1974.

stphoto.jpg

Worked with all major USA TV networks, and with BBC-TV, CBC-TV, Japanese, Canadian, Australian Broadcast Commission and many others.

For McGraw-Hill Scientific Encyclopedia wrote "Railroad Engineering" section, and for its "Scientific Yearbook-1982" yearbook, wrote "Foreign Railroad Technology".

For Traffic Quarterly and Congressional Record, wrote "Transportation at the Crossroads", July 1981.

Numerous magazine articles from New Republic to Air Force, Gallery, Genesis, and Freedom magazines.

Consultant: Rail Transportation for Northrop Services Inc., Northrup Corp. and for Ohio Rail Transportation Authority. Assisted Chairman, Joint Economics Committee of the Congress to set up International Hearings and to write "Rail Passenger Services Act of 1981".

At request of Oliver Stone, worked as Creative Advisor (1990-1991) on production of his film "JFK" and was the original for "Man X" character played by Donald Sutherland.

Book, "JFK, the CIA, Vietnam and the Plot to Assassinate John F. Kennedy" published by Birch Lane Press, 1992.

Memberships:

Director, National Railroad Foundation and Museum

National Press Club, and Foundation

Rotary Club of Washington, formerly a Director

Member, Society of Historians for American Foreign Relations

Family:

Wife: Elizabeth

Son: David

Daughter: Jane

Daughter: Lauren

Additional data:

a) By direction of the Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, a Founder, of the International Air Traffic Controllers Assn.

b ) Founder, Tokyo Toastmasters Club

c) A Charter member, American Bankers Assn, Committee of Automation Planning and Technology.

d) A graduate of the American Bankers Assn, Graduate School of Banking, University of Wisconsin.

e) Guest Lecturer, American University.

f) Staff, Cairo Conference, 1943

g) Staff, Teheran Conference, 1943

Edited by Greg Burnham

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Guest Mark Valenti   
Guest Mark Valenti

Who's the "nut?" Lansdale or Prouty? Neither or both? We know one is a self admitted xxxx BY TRADE.

psy_war.jpg

We know Prouty wasn't being honest when he claimed that he never prompted Krulak to "see" Lansdale in that photo. Clearly he did, so Krulak's ID of Lansdale wasn't wholly independent as some have claimed.

Prouty indicated his dim view of Lansdale, inferring that his rise to General may not have been entirely earned.

Lansdale's view of Prouty wasn't terribly flattering: "He was a good pilot of prop-driven aircraft, but had such a heavy dose of paranoia about CIA when he was on my staff that I kicked him back to the Air Force. He was one of those who thought I was secretly running the Agency from the Pentagon, despite all the proof otherwise."

They both had impressive credentials, they both served their country during difficult years. Whatever breach between them that caused Prouty to implicate Lansdale in the murder of the US President, we may never know. If Lansdale was right, and Prouty had some sort of paranoid fixation on him, then the ID of a man whose face is hidden from view makes more sense.

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Colonel Prouty never "slammed" Lansdale in any book. He reported what he himself witnessed, recounted their shared experiences and called a spade a spade when relevant.

Did you know Ed Lansdale? If so, did he ever tell you that he thought Colonel Prouty was a nut? If you didn't know Lansdale, then how do you know what he thought of Prouty? Beyond the content of a book whose true authorship is suspect, there is no evidence of your claim.

On the other hand, Colonel Prouty was a personal friend of mine. He told me what he thought of Ed Lansdale on numerous occasions. He never "judged" Lansdale one way or another. He simply reported the facts and allowed me to make up my own mind. I opted to follow in kind by suspending judgment. What I "think" of Lansdale is irrelevant, but it could cloud my judgement. I don not have that luxury. However, I strongly disapprove of the methods he often employed as a function of his job.

Obviously, General Lansdale did not think that Colonel Prouty was a "nut" or that he was "his cross to bear" as of the writing of the note below (1960). The documents attached to the note are rife with sensitive information that was only suitable for some to "know,", but not all. Lansdale left the choosing of the "list of those with a need to know" up to Colonel Prouty's discretion. Such a responsibility is hardly something he'd have left up to a "nut."

Lansdale2Fletch.jpg

Edited by Greg Burnham

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Guest Mark Valenti   
Guest Mark Valenti

If you didn't know Lansdale, then how do you know what he thought of Prouty? Beyond the content of a book whose true authorship is suspect, there is no evidence of your claim.

I don't know, Greg, it seems to me that if Curry had published xxxxe about Lansdale and his opinions out of whole cloth, somebody, somewhere might have stepped up to say it ain't so. Landsale's family? Colleagues? Or is it just you?

For that matter, you didn't know JFK, how do you know what he really thought about Vietnam, other than what you've read? How do you know some schlub at Langley didn't write his NSAMs? Let's not play that game.

On the other hand, Colonel Prouty was a personal friend of mine.

Yes we know.

He told me what he thought of Ed Lansdale on numerous occasions. He never "judged" Lansdale one way or another. He simply reported the facts and allowed me to make up my own mind.

Well, he does indicate in his book that Lansdale's General star might not have been awarded had he not taken the "easy CIA" path. No judgement there?

I opted to follow in kind by suspending judgment. What I "think" of Lansdale is irrelevant, but it could cloud my judgement. I don not have that luxury. However, I strongly disapprove of the methods he often employed as a function of his job.

So Lansdale was affiliated with the CIA, and Prouty was affiliated with the "church" of Scientology at one point. One could extrapolate deeper meaning from both of those, howsoever they choose.

Obviously, General Lansdale did not think the Colonel Prouty was a "nut" or that he was a pain in his side as of the writing of the note below (1960). The documents attached to the note are rife with sensitive information that was only suitable for some to "know,", but not all. Lansdale left the choosing of the "list of those with a need to know" up to Colonel Prouty's discretion. Such a responsibility is hardly something he'd have left up to a "nut."

Well, this was well before Lansdale sent Prouty to the Pole, so his opinion may have changed. But in any case, you've carved out a free and clear road for yourself by simply claiming that Curry's book is suspect. Nice pivot.

Look, I don't have any personal feelings about Prouty one way or the other. I find his ID of Lansdale lacking for the reasons I've given. I'm not saying it makes him a terrible person or a nut. I just see that there's more to the story than we usually get when researching the tale of the three tramps.

Edited by Mark Valenti

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Colonel Prouty told me that he sent the "tramps" photographs to several people who were familiar with Lansdale, not just Krulak. However, he did not release those correspondences because he did not have permission and/or they were still living. He only supplied the Krulak response to the letter to Len Osanic for the CDROM because he was inadvertently under the false impression that the General had already passed away. My understanding is that Fletch simply asked the recipients to "see if you recognize anyone in the photographs that we know" -- or words to that effect. I am not certain because I don't have a copy of the original letter, but I will attempt to get it.

krulak1.jpg

krulak1a.jpg

In any event, Victor "Brute" Krulak was not a man easily influenced by another man's mere suspicions. However, even if Colonel Prouty had included the name when he asked that question, Krulak was very certain the man pictured is Lansdale. There is no hint of equivocation in his ID.

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May 26 1985

Victor H. Krulak

3665 Carleton Street

San Diego, CA

92106

Dear General,

Your good letter of 15 March 85 arrived while I was on a trip. This trip entailed a surge of work that has continued until now and, as I was working on this letter, I got another call and had to leave for a quick trip to Portland, OR. That led to more work. These interruptions certainly don't give an indication of my deep interest in your letter. As you can imagine, the information you provided is most important.

I shall look up "First to Fight' and "Organization for National Security" and read them as soon as I can. The brief review of your activities since we both left SACSA was most welcome; and your notes concerning the pictures I had sent to you are remarkable. I feel as though we have come across a barren bit of ground and that together we have found it to be more fertile than either of us, singly, had thought it would be. To have your confirmation of my belief that our mutual friend (Lansdale) was there at that time means quite a lot. I join with you in the question, What in the world was he doing there?

Somewhere I have the name of the photographer, and I'll get it. He was a regular commercial photographer who had run around and shot a lot of pictures that day. These pictures, this most unusual series, were - he thought - going to be important. Later, when few if any newspapers seemed interested in them, he wondered what had happened to the "tramps" whom those "policemen" had delivered to the Dallas County Sheriff's office.

This led to the discovery that the "tramps" had not even been booked in the Sheriff's office where they had been taken so conspicuously, and that there were no records of or by the police. Attempts have been made through the years to identify the "tramps" and the "police". Many have said one of the tramps was Howard Hunt. It looks like him.

To my knowledge no one has ever given any thought to the extra man, our friend. He has been accepted as a simple, uncomplicated pedestrian.

Not too long after the appearance of this set of pictures, they were referred to me on the chance I might recognize a CIA associate of some kind. I studied them carefully, concealing the fact that I was startled to see Ed Lansdale in the pictures. I had spotted him immediately.

This was years ago, in the Sixties, and I was much closer to EGL then. As a matter of fact I used to see him rather frequently during the Sixties. I was VP of a bank that was across the street from a CIA-leased building in Arlington, and he would pop up now and then from that building.

This is an unusual person. I used to fly into the Philippines during l952-1954 rather frequently. I would always stay at Clark where I had several friends. From time to time I'd hear stories about this "Air Force" officer who was working with Capt. Magsaysay. We flew to Saigon and Bangkok also on trips back and forth out of Tokyo. In 1953 I became Commander of that MATS outfit and my regular business included Clark-Saigon-Bangkok, among others... out of Tokyo. On several trips between Clark and Saigon I had groups of officials (USAFilipino6-CHINATS) who were with EGL. He had become a kingmaker by getting Ramon Magsaysay "elected" President of the Philippines.

After the fall of Dienbienphu, he was called back to the USA to discuss a similar "Robin Hood" operation in SVN. Allen Dulles dispatched him to Saigon as head of the Saigon Military Mission (a CIA cover) with orders to create a leader out of Ngo Dinh Diem. They became fast friends, and much of the early activity in SVN may be directly laid at his feet. He had full sway over the CIA there, and the CIA had operational control of the military as they were until the Marines landed in 1964. During this period, 1952-1954, I met EGL a few times there and got quite familiar with his Filipino and Vietnamese activities. For example: I flew a big Italian radar unit into Saigon for him in 1954.

I began my CIA-related work in Hq USAF in 1955 and was told to create an office for "The USAF support of the clandestine operations of the CIA". I wrote the procedures and got CofS:USAF (Gen. White) to approve it and then took it to Allen Dulles for his OK. Dulles sent me on a round-the-world trip to most of his overseas stations. That was my PhD.

Then EGL arrived in the Directorate of Plans on the Air Staff...a fish out of water. My office, "Team B" was there. We met again and we spent quite a bit of time together; but he could not get settled in with the Air Staff. Dulles and the "Big E" decided to help him; so in about 1959 he went to Erskine's office, the office of Special Operations: OSD. Shortly after he went down there I was ordered to that office where I reported in May 1960.

During this extended period of long association I learned that EGL was either liked or violently disliked. He was a great behind-the-scene, solo operator. He traveled quite a bit. My CIA friends used to tell me about how many CIA men, and especially French Intelligence men, would gladly have shot him.

Then in early 1960 be got rather close to Nixon and they got approval for the operation that became the "Bay of Pigs". He remained actively interested in Laos and SVN. He was somehow involved in Algeria. He wanted to be the Ambassador to Saigon and talked with me about this dream frequently. Achieving this depended on the election of Richard Nixon. The JFK victory jolted his plans, and he took off on a long trip to SVN right after the election - Nov 1960.

As he was planning this trip he had me go in town "to buy the grandest present I could find for Diem", I went to Callamer's and ordered the biggest desk set you ever saw. When it was delivered EGL liked it and told me to rush back in town to get a big brass plaque to put on it. He dictated the words "Ngo Dinh Diem: The Father of His Country". I was out over $700 and it was a long time before he got the paperwork arranged to pay me back. Diem died with that thing still on his desk.

EGL was disturbed when Erskine retired from OSD and McNamara abolished OSO/OSD. EGL had hoped to take over that job. That left him with a small, very nominal office by mid '61. At this time Earle Wheeler and McNamara called me in to tell me they were going to put my office in the JCS where I would cover all services and be placed within a new structure to be called: SACSA. There I had three bosses in quick succession: Craig (USA), Heintges (USA/CIA), Krulak (USMC).

During mid '63 was quite disturbed because of the worsening situation in Saigon and the growing disenchantment with Diem. Although he had always been a "Diem" supporter that does not mean he would have always been one to the end. I noted, in the behind-the-scenes action, it was a very close associate of his (Conien) who had been selected to be the contact man to the plotters against Diem, specifically to Big Minh. I do not know what EGL's role may have been then... if any. Of course you had been out there at that pivotal time, and you may have a much better idea of things than I. That was a crucial time for EGL because he lost Diem as leverage.

Then we all worked on the McNamara-Taylor Trip Report to JFK and that brought us up to the day of the loss of Diem and his brother. As I recall, the USA had provided air-travel for them to go to Europe, an Inter-Parliamentary Union meeting; but at the lest minute, unaccountably, both Diems backed away from the plane and returned to the Palace to find it empty. They ran through the tunnel to Cholon and were captured there.

Since the views expressed in the McNamara-Taylor Report were those of JFK and his closest advisors, coming from them via your own participation, I am sure - had JFK lived - that further USA activity in SVN would have been reduced considerably. I fully expected to see us out of SVN as soon as JFK had been re-elected. The "home by Christmas" element of the JFK plan was simply the start, and a cue to where he was going. I believe he had confided this to Mike Mansfield.

With the McNamara-Taylor Report work done I began to prepare for the trip to New Zealand and Antarctica. As you knows by that time I had been in the Pentagon, close to key positions, for 9 years, consecutively. I had many good friends and many reliable and perceptive sources. It was my belief that things in the Pentagon and in the White House were growing tense about the time I left for the Pacific.

After my visit to Antarctica we returned to New Zealand. A Congressman, Pete Abele, R-Ohio, and I got a Navy car and were driven to the N.Z. Alps, Mt Cook. It is a beautiful resort in a place called the Hermitage.

As I came down to breakfast the morning after we had arrived, I took a table and sipped coffee waiting for Pete to come. Outside, through huge picture windows, I could see snow-capped Mt Cook, and I could see a small, ski-wheel equipped Cessna leaving an air-strip to deposit skiers, 5 at a time, on a shoulder of the mountain above us.

The PA system was announcing the air-lift schedule for skiers in groups of five. Then the voice stopped. It came back with: "Ladies and Gentlemen, the BBC have announced that President Kennedy has been shot, dead, in Dallas." Total silence followed.

At that moment, Pete reached the table. His face was ashen. "did you hear what I just heard?" There was not another word of news. All around us the hundreds of New Zealand natives put down their coffee cups. Ladies wiped tears from their eyes. Outside in the beautiful springtime sunlight there was a tall flag-pole with the Union Jack flying in the breeze. Instinctively the entire group moved out around the flagpole. They recognized us as Americans and I told some of them that Pete was a Congressman. They gathered around him. Then a man from the hotel came out, untied the flag cord and lowered the British emblem to half-mast. I understand that was the first time that had ever been done, for an American.

We cut short out stay, and left that morning. There still was no news and the car had no radio. We arrived in Christchurch that PM and saw our first newspaper. It carried a Reuters story that the President had been hit by "rapid fire from automatic weapons". It also carried lengthy items about Lee Harvey Oswald.

Pete and I talked about the event, I recall saying that I had been trained in "Protection" (I had gone to Mexico City with the Eisenhower party in 1956). I felt something must have gone wrong in the Secret Service and their customary Army "Protection" services. There is no way, under protection tactics, that a lone gunman could have had access to an open and unobserved Sixth Floor window directly over the cavalcade. No way! Furthermore, the "lone gunman" did not agree with the "automatic weapons" of the on the spot Reuters account. Also, how could a paper in distant Christchurch have had so much news on Oswald so quickly?

I am fully aware of instantaneous transmission; what I mean is who could have researched and have had that all written for immediate transmission around the world?

As you will recall, the Dallas police did not even charge Oswald with the crime until after midnight...that is, on Nov 23rd. They had picked him up on the suspicion of having shot the police officer named Tippet, not JFK.

When I got back to Washington four or five days later, I listened to and read all I could about this unusual event. I was convinced it could not have happened as the story was being told.

Someone, in power or with access to the inside of power near the top, had been able to create a security vacuum in Dallas. The usual Army organization that augments the Secret Service, the 113th Group, had been told they would not be needed in Dallas. The Secret Service had been told they were needed in Ft Worth but only those riding in the cavalcade would go to Dallas and those in the cavalcade did absolutely nothing. There were no Secret Service, in place, in the vicinity of Dealey Plaza; yet the book says whenever the cavalcade is moving less than 44 mph there must be ground coverage.

Then VP Johnson was placed in a car two cars behind JFK. Since the origin of the Secret Service in 1860 this has been one of their ironclad rules...that the President and VP do not show up together. Former VP Nixon, despite his uncertain stories about his whereabouts to the contrary, was still in Dallas that afternoon where he had been with a meeting of Pepsi Cola officials.

These were all clever details. These two key men, LBJ and RMN, were trained indelibly by the sound and proximity of those shots. This tactic paid off in subsequent years.

It seems that the FBI were not in the scene either. Hoover met with LBJ shortly after Dallas and among other things, J. Edgar Hoover told LBJ:

a) Only three shots were fired: the first hit JFK, the second hit Connally, the third hit JFK. He added, "The President would have been hit three times except for the fact that Governor Connally turned after the first shot and was hit by the second."

b ) They were fired by one man in 3 seconds.

c) They were fired from the Fifth Floor.

As we know, these are all wrong. For the Director to be wrong on that date, Nov 29th (I have a copy of his letter) is strong evidence that he did not have people at the scene, and that his story was fabricated, even to LBJ. (He and LBJ had lived across the street from each other for 19 years.)

The three shots are doubtful. There were most likely four, or more: i.e. 2 to JFK, 1 to Connally and one miss. This miss hit a curb about 1 1/2 blocks away and a fragment of the curb or bullet hit a man named Tague. Tague's picture with blood running down his face is undeniable evidence. That is four shots.

As for Connally interfering with the second shot, this is wrong because the gunman Hoover had in mind (Oswald) was behind JFK and Connally was in front of JFK. No way a shot from behind JFK could have hit Connally, blocking for JFK. Either that or Hover has a gunman in front of JFK.

Hoover is wrong on the 3 seconds interval and that a man can fire that rifle three times in three seconds, and aim it too. The interval was just over 6 seconds.

He is all mixed up about the Fifth Floor. The entire scenario as entered in the Warren Commission report says that Oswald was on the Sixth Floor.

The only point of all the above, herein, is to show that there was a void, as there ought not to have been, at Dealey Plaza in Dallas. Almost no police: auto-borne Secret Service only: no "Protection" Army: no FBI nearby.

This took some kind of control. Only someone in a high position could have had the calls made that would have created this void without stirring up action.

Then on the scene there were many bogus Secret Service. These were men with some sort of Secret Service identification but on whom there is actually no record. And we have the strange police that you saw in those pictures with EGL.

There are in the CIA's assets colonies of stateless experts with all kinds of identities ready for any hit. It is easy, with the right authority, or the appearance of the right authority to have a team go anywhere, to hit anyone provided enough money is put up and an escape is arranged and guaranteed. EGL had used such a deal many times in many operations and knew how to trigger it. He was there, no doubt, to assure the escape that those "Dallas Police" were arranging right at that time when they were inadvertently spotted by that busy commercial photographer.

A major part of the scheme would involve the continuing cover-up. Again this can be relatively uncomplicated as long as the person at the top remains high enough up and can remain anonymous. So far this fits the role of EGL.

Today, he and many of his long-time associates form the inner core of the Reagan insurgency program around the world. As we see, they are taking on the old Khrushchev role of supporting the wars of national liberation and coming out from under the traditional cloak.

I thank you again for your letter, for your observations concerning those photographs and for your collaboration on the identity of the figure in one of those pictures, I am certain that we are on the right track; but where does it lead?

So much for now. I trust all is well with you and that I shall hear from you at your convenience. We are off soon on a visit to New England and then on to the Gaspe and Prince Edward Island...the place of my wife's mother's birth. All this as a welcome break after a busy springtime.

Sincerely,

L. Fletcher Prouty

Edited by Greg Burnham

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The only persons who have consistently claimed that Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty was a nut are John McAdams and Gary Mack. This thread, as I suspected, was a hit piece against Fletcher Prouty from the start. Some took the bait. I took the hook, line, rod, reel, boat, trailer, and trailer hitch. Your theory don't float.

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Guest Mark Valenti   
Guest Mark Valenti

The only persons who have consistently claimed that Colonel L. Fletcher Prouty was a nut are John McAdams and Gary Mack. This thread, as I suspected, was a hit piece against Fletcher Prouty from the start. Some took the bait. I took the hook, line, rod, reel, boat, trailer, and trailer hitch. Your theory don't float.

Ridiculous, and you are clearly impacted by your personal feelings toward Prouty. I haven't said one thing that isn't true. This is what's in the record. You may dispute it, that's your right and given your relationship, your duty.

But for crying out loud, don't be paranoid about motives you know nothing about. If you go into these discussions with a chip on your shoulder, you'll only see things through a very narrow lens. If you ascribe attributes to me (or anyone you disagree with) based on your sour feelings toward others, you may never come to any new conclusions.

I always thought it was a stretch for Prouty to claim that the guy was Lansdale, and the more I looked into the actual record - the relationship between them, the obvious untruth that Prouty stated about Krulak, the ID seems even more in doubt.

And it's important. If Lansdale is there, it's a wholly different scenario.

If he's not, then Prouty is either mistaken or agenda-driven. Either way it's vital to clear up these historical mysteries to the degree that we can.

Choose to look at anything even slightly critical of Prouty as a scam if you like. But that attitude will help you get NO closer to the truth. It will only prop up what you think you already know.

It's what causes people to start their own forums and kick out people who disagree with their world view.

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These are great documents, Greg - Thanks for posting them. The May 26 letter back to Krulack has a lot of intriguing information and I have never seen it before.


It's interesting that he mentions the "Hunt as a tramp" topic. I know he worked closely with EHH for a time, and I have heard him mention Hunt in relation to many things in interviews, but never heard him say whenever he thought Hunt may have been involved...I'll infer from the letter that he thinks EHH would have the character to be part of the plot.


Another interesting thing is his mention of Lansdale's relationship with Nixon, which I had known about, but is worthy of more investigation. I think it's taken as a given for some researchers that Lansdale was strictly opposed to the overthrow/assassination of Diem, but I don't know if it's as cut-and-dry as that. Prouty alludes to this. It's even more curious given his close association with Conein, who was working in Vietnam under supervision of Nixon's running mate, HCL....and who's Hunt's first choice for CIA man in the plumbers? Conein. (Also, strangely, in Nixon's last phone conversation with Ehrlichman, he strongly denies ever knowing of Hunt prior to Colson hiring him - which is of course a lie - but specifically mentions knowing about Conein.)


Finally, I'd like to find out more about who his friends were in the CIA and who hated him (as Prouty mentions, "During this extended period of long association I learned that EGL was either liked or violently disliked. He was a great behind-the-scene, solo operator. He traveled quite a bit. My CIA friends used to tell me about how many CIA men, and especially French Intelligence men, would gladly have shot him). Definitely some points worthy of further research.

Edited by Brian Schmidt

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[EDIT] Sorry, Brian--I wrote the following for Mr. Valenti before you posted your reply. It wasn't meant for you. I'll reply to you next.

So back to the point:

Do you believe that General Victor "Brute" Krulak, former Commandant of the United States Marine Corps and member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, would identify the subject--in no uncertain terms--as Lansdale if he didn't feel certain about it? Seriously?

Note that in Prouty's letter of reply the name of E Howard Hunt comes up as Prouty mentions in passing: "Many have said one of the tramps was Howard Hunt. It looks like him." -- Yet even though Prouty was very familiar with Howard Hunt, and Hunt was a known CIA Operative, and the photo shows this "tramp's" full face -- Prouty's only, rather non-committal, comment is that "It looks like him." He doesn't say, "It's him." After all, a lot of people "look like" a lot of other people.

Edited by Greg Burnham

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Guest Mark Valenti   
Guest Mark Valenti

Bolded text from Prouty's letter:

To have your confirmation of my belief that our mutual friend (Lansdale) was there at that time means quite a lot. I join with you in the question, What in the world was he doing there?

Again - and it bears repeating - Prouty claimed that Krulak made an INDEPENDENT identification of Lansdale in that photo. This is not true.

This led to the discovery that the "tramps" had not even been booked in the Sheriff's office where they had been taken so conspicuously, and that there were no records of or by the police.

This is not true.

Attempts have been made through the years to identify the "tramps" and the "police". Many have said one of the tramps was Howard Hunt. It looks like him.

The tramps were Gedney, Abrams and Doyle.

As you will recall, the Dallas police did not even charge Oswald with the crime until after midnight...that is, on Nov 23rd. They had picked him up on the suspicion of having shot the police officer named Tippet, not JFK.

The ENTIRE WORLD knew that Oswald was suspected of killing JFK. He wasn't formally charged until later but it's silly to pretend that people only thought he killed Tippit.

Former VP Nixon, despite his uncertain stories about his whereabouts to the contrary, was still in Dallas that afternoon where he had been with a meeting of Pepsi Cola officials.

This is not true.

Prouty may have been privy to a lot of inside baseball details, but he got a lot of stuff wrong.

Not trying to crucify the guy but I do NOT believe his ID of Lansdale is correct.

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