John Connally's Lapel

[David Von Pein]

The Ultimate In "SBT" Denial....

 

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-887.html

 

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/lSEF4cGZhFg/50l4LFKTAgAJ

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

Yeah, Connally reacted? So what? He HEARD a shot and was startled.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

And you think ALL of the stuff we see John B. Connally doing between Zapruder Film frames 224 and 230 are the results of him merely HEARING a gunshot (e.g., flinching, mouth opening, lapel bulging, and THE ARM/HAT FLIP), right Tony? (And remember that that arm flip is the SAME arm (wrist) that WAS wounded during the shooting. Just a coincidence, right?)

Thanks, Tony, for again proving my point about CTers exhibiting "The Ultimate In SBT Denial" whenever they view these clips from Abraham Zapruder's home movie....
 

 

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by David Von Pein

[Micah Mileto]

1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

The Ultimate In "SBT" Denial....

 

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/01/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-887.html

 

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/alt.assassination.jfk/lSEF4cGZhFg/50l4LFKTAgAJ

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

Yeah, Connally reacted? So what? He HEARD a shot and was startled.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

And you think ALL of the stuff we see John B. Connally doing between Zapruder Film frames 224 and 230 are the results of him merely HEARING a gunshot (e.g., flinching, mouth opening, lapel bulging, and THE ARM/HAT FLIP), right Tony? (And remember that that arm flip is the SAME arm (wrist) that WAS wounded during the shooting. Just a coincidence, right?)

Thanks, Tony, for again proving my point about CTers exhibiting "The Ultimate In SBT Denial" whenever they view these clips from Abraham Zapruder's home movie....
 

 

 

Are you aware of this old 90's conspiracy documentary acknowledging a Connally hit at z222-224: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2UhG55P9XM&t=29m26s  

 

while theorizing a prior hit at z190-200's: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2UhG55P9XM&t=26m10s  

 

There is photographic evidence for a loud report at z190-z200's. Consider this in conjunction with where Betzner and Willis snapped their photos.

 

From the 1971 paper in the Journal of Forensic Sciences, Photographic Evidence and the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy by physicist Don Olson and criminalist Ralph Turner:

The Warren Commission believed that frames 225-230 represented the President's reactions to a shot fired somewhere in the interval of Zapruder frames 210-224, while the President was behind the road sign. However, certain observations in the Zapruder film will be noted here to indicate that the first wounding of the President may not have been blocked from the record by the road sign. The transition in the President's appearance between frames 183 and 230 (described above) in fact seems to begin with certain reactions in the intervals of frames 194-206.

First, a general trend in the frames 194-206 may be noted. Beginning as early as frame 194, the President's body seems to undergo a motion forward and to the left. This motion, which can be visually approximated to be on the order of six or seven inches, seems to begin in frame 194 and continues through about frame 200. The President seems to move away from the seat back and tilt to to the left, away from the window ledge.

...

"Study of the frames reveals further information. Recalling the descriptions above, it is clear that between frames 183 and 230, two specific changes occurred in the President's position. First, the President turned his head and shoulders back from the crowd until he was facing forward. Also, the President's right arm moved from a position with the elbow below a chrome strip on the outside of the car, into a position with the arm and elbow well inside the car and raised almost to chin level. These frames and motions have been described in such great detail because both of these specific changes in Kennedy can be observed to occur in the "early Zapruder frames," i.e., those before the President disappears from view behind the road sign. In this context, It happens that frame 204 is very important.

On the interval the President's body is seen to narrow somewhat to the view, indicating that he not only leans to the Left front, but also is rotated to the left. The rotation of the shoulders begins as early as frame 195. His head comes around at 200-202. By frame 204 the President is facing almost directly forward.

As the President moves and rotates to the left, his right arm is pulled back into the car. While his elbow has been resting outside the car, it comes up noticeably at frame 195. The President's elbow can be seen to cross the chrome strip on the side of the car at frames As President Kennedy disappears from view behind the sign, his right arm seems to he in a particularly unusual position the clearly visible gray of his suit coat indicating that his right arm and elbow have been raised at least to the level of his chin."

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisb.../Item%2001.pdf



From the 9/12/1978 testimony of Calvin McCamy, spokesman for the HSCA photographic evidence panel:

"...There is considerable blurring at this point. The President's arm is up in a waving position. His head is still toward the right. At this point there is considerable blur, and by here, it appears as though his head is beginning to turn quite rapidly to the left. His head is now to the left. That is only one-eighteenth of a second from one frame to the next. He continues to look toward the left. One barely sees his right ear toward the camera. It is quite clear he is here now looking directly at his wife. He and his wife can be seen looking at one another in this sequence. He now goes behind the sign, and only a fraction of a second later we see his hands moving upward. He has a gasping expression. His hands are in a classic position of a person who has been startled. He now begins to raise his arms into what I would call a defensive position. He may be clutching at the throat wound."

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc....d=148&tab=page


From the HSCA photographic evidence panel's final report:

64. (a) By a vote of 12 to 5, the Panel determined that President Kennedy first showed a reaction to some severe external stimulus by Zapruder frame 207 as he is seen going behind a street sign that obstructed Zapruder's view.

...

70. At approximately Zapruder frame 200, Kennedy's movements suddenly freeze; his right hand abruptly stops in the midst of a waving motion and his head moves rapidly from right to his left in the direction of his wife. Based on these movements, it appears that by the time the President goes behind the sign at frame 207 he is evidencing some kind of reaction to a severe external stimulus. By the time he emerges from behind the sign at Zapruder frame 225, the President makes a clutching motion with his hands toward his neck, indicating clearly that he has been shot.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc....Id=22&tab=page


HSCA photographic expert Cecil Kirk's testimony at the 1986 mock trial of Lee Harvey Oswald: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGsD8i3qOgo&t=2m55s

Edited July 20, 2018 by Micah Mileto

[David Von Pein]

16 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

Are you aware of this old 90's conspiracy documentary acknowledging a Connally hit at z222-224: .....

Maybe you should give that information to the veteran conspiracy theorist I quoted above---W. Anthony Marsh of Cambridge, Massachusetts. Because he seems to think Connally is reacting only to SOUND, not a bullet piercing his body.

Edited July 20, 2018 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

31 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

From the HSCA photographic evidence panel's final report:

"Based on these movements, it appears that by the time the President goes behind the sign at frame 207 he is evidencing some kind of reaction to a severe external stimulus."

[In reality, of course,] JFK and Governor Connally are reacting to their bullet wounds at the exact same time in the Zapruder Film clip below:



And take note of Jackie Kennedy's reactions in the above Z-Film clip too. She kind of "springs" up in her seat and then puts both of her hands on JFK's left arm. But Jackie only STARTS TO REACT (as she moves her arms and her body toward JFK) AFTER Z226 or so.

But if we're to believe the HSCA's timing for the SBT, JFK was struck by a bullet back at about Z190. But Jackie doesn't react and try to aid her husband until after approximately Z226. Just a coincidence? Did Jackie have a "delayed reaction" too?

In reality, Jackie Kennedy's reactions (and her reaching out with both of her hands to aid her husband shortly after Z225) are reactions that are perfectly consistent with a bullet striking President Kennedy at around Z224. She is "reacting" at almost the exact same time as the two victims.

Here's a slow motion version:



IMO, Jackie's movements are somewhat difficult to explain and reconcile if JFK had been struck as early as Z190 or so. She doesn't move toward her injured husband until AFTER the men reappear from behind the Stemmons Freeway sign.

I suppose that could conceivably just be a coincidence (because we ARE only talking about 1.86 seconds in real time--between Z190 and Z224), but there's no question in my mind that Jackie Kennedy's movements and reactions as she MOVES TOWARD JFK after Z225-Z226 are certainly not INCONSISTENT with the SBT occurring at Z224.

In fact, the more I focus on JUST JACKIE in the above Zapruder Film clips, the more I think her reactions and movements fully buttress the "Z224 SBT Hit" even more solidly than ever.

David Von Pein
August 2010
Revised September 2015
 

Edited July 20, 2018 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Addendum....

JAMES DiEUGENIO SAID:

>>> "The idea that JBC and JFK were hit at z 224 is nothing but a fiction. The purpose of which is to salvage the SBT. Why? Because at around this time, in the Z film, you have JFK just barely emerging from behind the sign and he has clearly been hit. There is a grimace on his face, and his hands begin to go upwards to grab his neck. There is no noticeable reaction in JBC. As Mili Cranor once wrote, this single frame destroys the SBT. (Which, BTW, is why Dale Myers had to lie about it and distort it in his fake simulation.)" <<<


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Talk about "making stuff up". Jim DiEugenio has just done quite a bit of that in the above paragraph.

For starters, in Zapruder Film frame #224 (which is a frame of the Z-Film that DiEugenio actually is silly enough to say "destroys the SBT"), President Kennedy is just barely visible as he starts to emerge from behind the Stemmons road sign, as we can see here:



Yes, folks, it's the above frame (#224) that Jim DiEugenio thinks "destroys the SBT", even though we can't even see John F. Kennedy's face in Frame 224!

I think a good question for Jim D. to answer is this one:

If JFK had been hit as early as Z190 to Z195 (as you have said on Black Op Radio, and probably in your online articles as well), then why are JFK's hands as low as they are in Z224 and Z225?

DiEugenio thinks the same way the HSCA did in 1978 apparently....i.e., Kennedy was hit at about Z190, but then LOWERED his arms to where we can see them in Z224 and Z225, before very rapidly moving those same arms upward toward his neck and mouth, which is an UPWARD movement that does not even begin until Z226, as we can see here:



A delayed reaction perhaps, Jim?

But I doubt very much that you would like to endorse any kind of a "delayed reaction" explanation, in light of the fact that you seem to think that any similar delayed reaction on the part of Governor Connally around frames Z224-Z226 is out of the question. Right, Jim?

Of course, in reality, there is no delayed reaction on the part of EITHER of the victims, with everything we see happening to John B. Connally just a split second AFTER Z224 being perfectly consistent with a bullet striking him in the upper back at precisely Z224 -- e.g., Connally's right shoulder pitches slightly downward and forward at exactly Z224 (the moment-of-impact frame, IMO); Connally's mouth opens at Z225 (it was closed at Z224; just a coincidence?); Connally's shoulders "hunch up" at Z225, in what is an obvious involuntary reaction to having been hit by the bullet; and, of course, there's the key "hat flip", which begins at Z226, which is a very quick and rapid movement of Connally's right arm (the same one that was hit by a bullet; coincidence?).

(And I didn't even mention the "lapel flip" above. But the lapel/coat movement is really just a "bonus". Because even without that coat movement, there is ample evidence via the Zapruder Film that Connally is INVOLUNTARILY reacting to a bullet hitting him at Z224.)

[David Von Pein]

Addendum #2....

MICHAEL WELCH SAID:

Hi David,

Here is a still frame [of] z-224. Is this the same film version that you like to use? If it is, what are you seeing that shows a hit on both men simultaneously?

I can see President Kennedy's hands up or going up towards his throat. Is there any blood on Governor Connally's shirt?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Michael,

You need to watch the film in a LOOPED and MOTION sequence. Just isolating Z224 isn't going to prove anything. And that's a big reason Governor Connally, when he looked at merely STILLS from the Z-Film, said he was hit in the Z230s. But when viewed in MOTION, and on a loop to see it over and over again, it becomes quite clear that both JFK and Connally are reacting starting at Z225.

And Kennedy's hands are NOT moving UP to his throat by Z224. The upward arm motion of JFK doesn't start until Z226, which is the exact same frame when Governor Connally's right arm (the arm/wrist that WAS injured during the shooting) starts to rise also. Just like their arms are being controlled by the same string....




But, Michael, as we can see in the isolated clip below, Kennedy's right hand is still coming DOWN from his last wave between Z224 and Z225....


 

[Ron Bulman]

  I could see Connally's suit lapel flipping out as the bullet came out his nipple.  If it was bunched up like JFK's collar so the magic pristine single bullet could enter his neck instead of T3.  But only if he was hunched over forward and turned to the right would the angle be right.  Right?

Then again, I don't remember pictures of JC's coat and shirt.  If this is true his tailored shirt would have remained close to his body.  The suit would have bunched.  And the bullet holes wouldn't have lined up.  Would they?

Edited July 20, 2018 by Ron Bulman

[Joseph McBride]

David, you should ask your handlers for a raise, you are working so hard.

[David Von Pein]

41 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

David, you should ask your handlers for a raise, you are working so hard.

Yeah, tell me about it, Joseph. I'm always asking them for a raise. But those damn cheapskates at Langley just won't give me one. Would you believe I'm still making the same measly six-figure salary that I was making in 2006?! And they cut back on my health insurance too! No dental now! (Damn penny-pinchers!) 

[B. A. Copeland]

I don’t believe that we can rely on the shooting sequence as described or theorized by the WC because the chain of custody concerning the weapon and rounds has absolutely fatal problems and, well, broken just to name a couple fatal issues. No judge would even allow it today (or “yesterday” for that matter). 

Edited July 20, 2018 by B. A. Copeland

[Micah Mileto]

11 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

[In reality, of course,] JFK and Governor Connally are reacting to their bullet wounds at the exact same time in the Zapruder Film clip below:

Betzner and Willis traveled back in time one second to snap their photos as a startle reaction to the (probably first) high-powered Carcano shot at z222-224. Right. And the fact that there are some sources saying the films of Kennedy don't just show moving his arm down from a wave between z190-200's means nothing? Automatic weaponry shot in quick succession was Connally's first instinctual conspiracy theory.

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Micah Mileto

[David Von Pein]

"The 'bracketing' of when the SBT bullet struck the two victims in the limousine, in fact, only further makes me think more highly of the Warren Commission and its detailed study of the assassination.

The WC and FBI did very detailed angle measurements in May '64, via a surveyor and "thru-the-Oswald-rifle-scope" determinations from the Sniper's Nest. And it was determined (as best as could be determined, circa 1964) that both victims were generally lined up in the limo to receive the "SBT" bullet from approx. Z210 through approx. Z225.

Conspiracy theorists scoff at this "bracketing", saying it can't be right. But those CTers are attempting to place an EXACTITUDE on the event that can't really be placed there. Some things MUST be estimated to a degree....and the WC did that. And did a damn good job at it too. Because "Z210-Z225" certainly encompasses the now-widely-accepted SBT Z-Frame of Z224 (a frame I fully endorse for many, many reasons).

In other words, the WC got it perfectly correct DECADES prior to the digital Z-Film copies fully backing up their findings of a SBT hit somewhere between Z210 and Z225. So what's the big gripe, is my question? The Warren Commission GOT IT RIGHT IN THE FIRST PLACE. Conspiracists just don't wish to accept the Occam's-like SBT scenario of one bullet transiting both victims.

Instead, conspiracy advocates would rather rely on pure guesswork, involving multiple disappearing bullets and an SBT-like alignment of wounds on two men (created by two or three gunmen!) that would make David Copperfield proud." -- DVP; April 8, 2007

-----------------------------------------------------------------

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#Single-Bullet-Theory

-----------------------------------------------------------------

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by David Von Pein

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

My thread on the other forum explains that (Lattimer said that tests showed that) the lapel flip at Z224 proves that the slug (magic bullet) at Z218 had to have passed throo JFK before hitting Connally (otherwise the flip is zero).

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,3089.msg141127.html#msg141127

[Michael Griffith]

Anyone with two working eyes who examines the Zapruder film with any care can see that JFK starts to react long before Z224, i.e., at around Z200. Even Itek's experts concluded that JFK is already reacting to a wound by Z225, which means the bullet must have hit him at least 7 frames earlier--he actually starts to react before he disappears behind the freeway sign.

Has any WC apologist wondered whether a lapel can flip up and down in no more than 1/9th of a second (or no more than 111 milliseconds)? This is not to mention the fact that the bullet's exit point was nowhere near the alleged lapel flip.

If Connally was hit at Z224, pray tell, what slams his right shoulder downward and caused his cheeks to puff starting in Z238, 14 frames after he was allegedly hit?

For that matter, what knocks JFK visibly forward and flings his elbows upward starting in Z226? Second only to the head shot, JFK's 226-232 reaction is the most obvious and visible reaction in the Zapruder film. The only rational explanation is that JFK was first hit at around Z188, as the HSCA's photographic experts acknowledged, and that he was hit again at Z224. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Michael Griffith

[John Deignan]

What about Jackie? She seems to be concerned about  JFK before Connally is hit, when she then reacts to Connally being hit.