Did Lee Harvey Oswald Order The Rifle? The Answer Is Yes

[David Von Pein]

Kenneth Drew,

I see that you buy into every conspiracy myth known to man. (Gee, what a surprise.)

Why should anyone admit that Oswald shot Tippit? There has never been any valid data/info proving that. It is more of the WildAss lies of the Warren Fab Shop.

This nonsense doesn't even deserve a response. (But I'll provide a response anyhow, below.)

Saying that "there has never been any valid data/info" that indicates Oswald shot Tippit is about the same as saying there's no valid data/info that the sun is hot.

Tippit was shot with an automatic weapon,

Another myth, Ken. Why can't you let the myths go?

Witnesses B. Davis and V. Davis said that the gunman was manually dumping shells out of a pistol. That means the gunman had a REVOLVER, not an AUTOMATIC. (Let me guess, both Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis were liars too, right?)

Plus, the shells picked up later by BOTH Davis girls (one shell each) were positively linked to a REVOLVER, not an AUTOMATIC. And not just ANY revolver. It was OSWALD'S revolver (S&W No. V510210).

Tippit was shot at 1:06, Oswald was at his rooming house at 1:04. 9/10ths of a mile away.

We don't know how long (exactly) Oswald was in his room that day. Furthermore, we don't know how fast (or slow) Oswald was walking (or running or trotting...or whatever) when he made his way from Beckley to Tenth Street.

And the "1:06" timestamp for the murder is hardly an established fact. You seem to think that a huge Naval Observatory clock was hovering over Helen Markham's head--flashing "1:06"--at the time Tippit was killed.

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/in-lee-harvey-oswalds-room.html

"It's always been my theory (yes, it's a guess, but a good one,
IMO) that Oswald was not in that shoebox-sized room of his on Beckley
for any "3 to 4 minutes" (as ESTIMATED by Mrs. Roberts, who was the
only witness to Oswald's coming in and going out again around 1:00 PM
on 11/22/63). Why on this Earth would Oswald, who was undoubtedly in a
"hurry" (per Roberts herself), spend 3 to 4 minutes in that closet of
a room just to grab his pistol and some bullets?" -- DVP; 08/02/2007

There were 2 shooters of Tippit, only one Oswald. Neither was described wearing the clothes Oswald was arrested in.

Only one witness (Clemmons) ever said that more than one person was involved in the Tippit murder. And she didn't actually see the shooting as it was happening. She saw the aftermath.

So tell me, Ken, with all of the OTHER witnesses (who were closer than Clemmons was) who said that just ONE man killed Tippit--with several of them IDing Oswald as that man--why would you place so much faith in just Acquilla Clemmons' lone account of "Two Killers"?

jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#JD-Tippit

Mr DiEugenio has embarrassed you so many times, I'm surprised you will even acknowledge him.

I enjoy acknowledging CTers like DiEugenio. I like propping up their foolish and preposterous "Anybody But Oswald" claims. In fact, DiEugenio is by far the easiest type of conspiracy clown to combat with the facts. And that's because a "fact" to Jimbo is never considered a "fact". No matter how much corroboration there is to back it up. (The Tippit murder evidence being just one of dozens of such examples.)

Embarrassed by DiEugenio? That is an impossibility...in light of all this:

dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-81.html#The-Stupid-Things-James-DiEugenio-Believes

Edited May 28, 2015 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

DVP here are the first two 'facts' you list on that site you linked above:

"1.) Lee Harvey Oswald owned the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository on Friday afternoon, November 22, 1963.

2.) Oswald owned the handgun that was shown to have been used in the murder of Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit."

First, note that they have quotation marks, Lord knows I don't want any credit for that demented thinking.

But No.l You've never provided any proof at all that LHO owned the rifle 'supposedly' found on the 6th floor. In fact all the evidence you've shown is that A Hidell ordered a rifle and that a different rifle than what he ordered was shipped to him and that rifle was different from what was ordered and the rifle sent to him had no scope. So where was your proof again?

2. Oswald owned a revolver, Tippit was shot with an automatic. Oswald didn't have an automatic. Oswald was nowhere near where Tippit was shot. No witness identified Oswald. Uh, so what was your 'proof'?

You don't need to respond to these , I've read your smoke and mirrors many times and have never believed it and am not going to start now.

Bye-bye, Kenny. You're obviously a lost cause. Lost in a wilderness of conspiracy dreck and myths. I hope you're able to swim free of all that crap eventually. Good luck to you.

Edited May 28, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Kenneth Drew]

And I'll bet you think the SBT is the SBF, right? I can't see or think of any 'fact' you've presented, if i ever do, I'll be sure to let you know. I'm sure you know the WCR was all discredited at least 50 years ago and here you are, still pretending like there is something 'true' in it. It's rather humorous, your technique of quoting something as evidence from the Report and pretending as if it's factual. I'll bet you enjoying acknowledging CTers like DiEugenio, is that why you duck him when invited to debate him on the air? If you were sure of your position wouldn't you welcome the opportunity to show him up in a debate?

Edited May 28, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[Kenneth Drew]

DVP here are the first two 'facts' you list on that site you linked above:

"1.) Lee Harvey Oswald owned the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository on Friday afternoon, November 22, 1963.

2.) Oswald owned the handgun that was shown to have been used in the murder of Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit."

First, note that they have quotation marks, Lord knows I don't want any credit for that demented thinking.

But No.l You've never provided any proof at all that LHO owned the rifle 'supposedly' found on the 6th floor. In fact all the evidence you've shown is that A Hidell ordered a rifle and that a different rifle than what he ordered was shipped to him and that rifle was different from what was ordered and the rifle sent to him had no scope. So where was your proof again?

2. Oswald owned a revolver, Tippit was shot with an automatic. Oswald didn't have an automatic. Oswald was nowhere near where Tippit was shot. No witness identified Oswald. Uh, so what was your 'proof'?

You don't need to respond to these , I've read your smoke and mirrors many times and have never believed it and am not going to start now.

Bye-bye, Kenny. You're obviously a lost cause. Lost in a wilderness of conspiracy dreck and myths. I hope you're able to swim free of all that crap eventually. Good luck to you.

Well, I don't think you're going to have much luck getting out of the Pigpen with your buddy. But at least you're taking my advice to 'stop digging'

[David Von Pein]

I'll bet you enjoying acknowledging CTers like DiEugenio, is that why you duck him when invited to debate him on the air? If you were sure of your position wouldn't you welcome the opportunity to show him up in a debate?

I did welcome it. Five years ago this month (see links below). And I even gave Jim a perfect chance to "embarrass" me further. (Without me even knowing what questions he was going to ask.) But Jimmy said no. Go figure that. I still can't. ....

dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-34.html

dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-35.html#Debate-Challenge

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Edited May 28, 2015 by David Von Pein

[Kenneth Drew]

DVP I thought you said good night above. Yeah, after refusing to debate JIm several times, you decided you had to sooner or later. But he didn't bite.

[David Von Pein]

Yes, Ken, I did say "bye-bye" to you earlier. (I guess I lied. So sorry.)

Bye (again).

[Bruce Fernandez]

Is anybody here seriously suggesting that the rifle seen in the back yard photos is the same one found in the TSBD?

It's not (long ago demonstrated, sling & mounts, etc.), so which rifle are we suggesting "Hidell" ordered? That needs to be specified before we have a long, detailed discussion about whether LHO ordered it.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Is anybody here seriously suggesting that the rifle seen in the back yard photos is the same one found in the TSBD?

It's not (long ago demonstrated, sling & mounts, etc.), so which rifle are we suggesting "Hidell" ordered? That needs to be specified before we have a long, detailed discussion about whether LHO ordered it.

Hi Bruce

While they may not be the same rifle, the rifle found on the 6th floor and the rifle in the BYP's are both definitely either 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 short rifles or 7.35mm Carcano M38 short rifles.

[Kenneth Drew]

Is anybody here seriously suggesting that the rifle seen in the back yard photos is the same one found in the TSBD?

It's not (long ago demonstrated, sling & mounts, etc.), so which rifle are we suggesting "Hidell" ordered? That needs to be specified before we have a long, detailed discussion about whether LHO ordered it.

Hi Bruce

While they may not be the same rifle, the rifle found on the 6th floor and the rifle in the BYP's are both definitely either 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 short rifles or 7.35mm Carcano M38 short rifles.

Robert when you discuss the 'rifle found on the 6th floor' you should specify if you're talking about the Mauser or the other one. It has been proven several times that at least 2 rifles were there that day. But I agree with Bruce, there is almost no likelihood that the rifle in the faked BYP was ever in the Back Yard and there is certainly no proof that a 6.5 Carcano was ever fired at JFK on Nov 22. There is no proof that any bullet from a 6.5 Carcano ever struck JFK on any day. It doesn't matter if LHO ever ordered a rifle, though there is certainly no proof that he did because there is also no proof he ever owned a rifle or fired a rifle in Dallas. Any circumstantial evidence has more circumstances that it is NOT likely than that it is. It's all part of the conspiracy smokescreen.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Show me the proof that a Mauser was found in the TSBD on 22/11/63.

[Kenneth Drew]

Show me the proof that a Mauser was found in the TSBD on 22/11/63.

Why? If you don't already know it, then you should do just a little basic research. Plenty of absolute proof of it.

[Robert Prudhomme]

I have seen all of the "research" regarding a Mauser being found on the 6th floor. Most of it is based on Roger Craig, and most of it is a lie.

[Kenneth Drew]

I have seen all of the "research" regarding a Mauser being found on the 6th floor. Most of it is based on Roger Craig, and most of it is a lie.

Interesting. But on the afternoon /evening of ll/22/63, I was watching tv coverage of the assassination and all the turmoil. I recall, myself, actually seeing them looking at a rifle and apparently reading directly off of it "Mauser". None of that is based on Roger Craig, it is based on what I saw with my own eyes and it's not likely, since I haven't changed my mind about it in over 50 years, that you or anyone else is going to change my mind about that. Now we can all 'assume' that two grown men holding up a rifle, polnting at writing on it and saying that it says Mauser could have not been proficient in reading or spelling, but I don't think that's likely. Yes, I have seen videos that show the same thing within the last 10 years that I saw over 50 years ago, and I know that several of the people that were in the TSBD that day signed sworn affidavits that it was a Mauser and that those same people later, after apparently a fairly good intimidation by 'someone' said they might have been mistaken that day. But I don't think that's likely. Now, I know that you know that one hell of a lot of testimony ;about that day got changed via the Warren Report, so to accept that quite a bit got changed about the rifle found there that day seems like a reasonable assumption on my part. So tell me what you saw on ll/22/63, on tv, that convinces you otherwise. Incidentally, since Roger Craig wouldn't change his ID of the rifle, he apparently died an early death by shooting himself with a rifle. Could be that's why so many 'agreed' to change their minds about what they had seen. Would you have changed yours under the correct intimidation.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Kenneth Drew

[Robert Prudhomme]

Roger Craig stated in an interview that he looked at the rifle and, on the base of the barrel, read the following: "7.65 Mauser".

Unfortunately for Craig, Mauser did not stamp any words or numbers on the base of the 7.65 Mauser barrel. All information was on the side of the receiver. They also never stamped the calibre on the 7.65 Mauser, so there is no way he could have read "7.65" on the rifle. It's a good story but, it is full of holes.

" I recall, myself, actually seeing them looking at a rifle and apparently reading directly off of it "Mauser"."

Is "apparently" reading the word "Mauser" the same as actually reading the word "Mauser", or does it require more imagination?

"Yes, I have seen videos that show the same thing within the last 10 years that I saw over 50 years ago....."

Would you mind posting links to these videos for us?