Thomas Graves Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Carolyn Arnold was a bit tricky to find in the group since in most stills of the Truly group she seems to be to the right - just out of frame - in the Wiegman film; and in the frames where she can be found she is only poorly seen due to the film quality and there's a short woman with a scarf on standing right in front of her facing sideways; but she is the 2nd woman to the right of Virgie Baker. In some Wiegman stills she seems to be turned far to her left (looking behind and to the left of the group) with her right arm up in the air either waving to someone or motioning to someone to come join the group. First, having found current photos of her online, I found her in the clear Cook/Cooper stills (And wowza!.. she's an incredibly youthful 72 yr-old! I have to say she's more gorgeous now at 72 than she was when she was 20!) . Then keeping in mind from that what she looked like, and how she was dressed on 11/22/63, I went looking for her in the Truly lineup. Here she is in Cook-Cooper - one is a frontal view and the other a side view. Keep in mind she was pregnant at the time (remember she said she went in the lunchroom for water which she said she craved due to her pregnancy). We can see her dress is rather tight and especially in the side view we can see she's that she is pregnant. (She delivered her baby, a girl, near the end of December '63). She's also wearing rather flat sensible pumps - a good idea when you're pregnant.: And here she is, I believe, in the Truly Grouping - 2 down from Virgie Baker (3 down if you count Jeraldean Reid's disembodied head ). Her bangs are off her forehead in this shot, I believe because it's windy (you can see Virgie Rachley's coat is blowing open, for example). She has her hand/forearm in the same sort of position she had in Cook-Cooper. And you can't see it in this still, but immediately to her left (just out of frame in this still) is the same "unknown" young lady who is standing next to her in Cook-Cooper, in the "gray" jumper and white blouse. They seem to be hanging out together. Makes me wonder who she is? Judy Johnson? Bonnie Richie? Betty Dragoo? By process of elimination she probably must be one of them.: Continued again for the same reason... Grrrrr... this having to break up my post is so irritating! .... Bumped for Robert Prudhomme. Note the woman labeled "Vickie [sic] Adams" in the two photos / frames at the top, Bob. I assume that it was our Linda that did that. Maybe I'm wrong... She does kinda look like Vicki. Vicki Adams: Kneeling between two elephants: Edited August 20, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Linda spotted Victoria Adams?? Yes, I did. About a year ago I ID'd both Vickie & Sandra Styles and posted my work on a JFK assassination FB group. I just got a pvt message about this from someone so I took the time to upload my Vickie & Sandy photos to Imgur so I could post them here. I found Vickie Adams in those Cook-Cooper stills I posted here (with Jeraldean Reid and Carolyn Arnold), as well as Adams & Styles both in Willis 8 in front of the TSBD, and Styles alone in Willis 15 - near the SE corner of the TSBD near where the 3 wheel motorcycles were parked. She had said in her statements somewhere that she could hear the reports coming over the motorcycle radios there. Sure enough there she was. In the color photos you can see Vickie's dress is bright acqua with a black collar and Sandra's dress has a tiny floral print between vertical blue stripes. I also may have found Vickie in her bright aqua dress and curly blondish hair in the Huges film (though she has her back to the camera so I can't be 100% positive). As for the other photos I am 100% positive it's them. Here is my Imgur Vickie & Sandy photo file which has close up comparisons for all the photos/stills I found them in. They are both are in Willis 8, for example: Tommy said: She does kinda look like Vicki. Yes she does! Because she is! NB: how her hair line has a little "peak" on her right side (our left) in all her photos. Edited August 20, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Hancock Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 Excellent work...IMHO this and the Training Camp thread (and the short shot thread when it stays on track) are a credit to the forum are great examples of what peer research can accomplish...well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted August 20, 2015 Share Posted August 20, 2015 (edited) Linda spotted Victoria Adams?? Yes, I did. About a year ago I ID'd both Vickie & Sandra Styles and posted my work on a JFK assassination FB group. I just got a pvt message about this from someone so I took the time to upload my Vickie & Sandy photos to Imgur so I could post them here. I found Vickie Adams in those Cook-Cooper stills I posted here (with Jeraldean Reid and Carolyn Arnold), as well as Adams & Styles both in Willis 8 in front of the TSBD, and Styles alone in Willis 15 - near the SE corner of the TSBD near where the 3 wheel motorcycles were parked. She had said in her statements somewhere that she could hear the reports coming over the motorcycle radios there. Sure enough there she was. In the color photos you can see Vickie's dress is bright acqua with a black collar and Sandra's dress has a tiny floral print between vertical blue stripes. I also may have found Vickie in her bright aqua dress and curly blondish hair in the Huges film (though she has her back to the camera so I can't be 100% positive). As for the other photos I am 100% positive it's them. Here is my Imgur Vickie & Sandy photo file which has close up comparisons for all the photos/stills I found them in. They are both are in Willis 8, for example: Tommy said: She does kinda look like Vicki. Yes she does! Because she is! NB: how her hair line has a little "peak" on her right side (our left) in all her photos. I know, Linda, but I gotta show you a little "resistance" from time to time so the others won't figure out that we're c-o-l-l-u-d-i-n-g. Keep up the excellent work, and please don't hesitate to give me everlasting credit for finding Truly standing to the right of (your) Virgie Baker, (somebody else's) Jeraldean Reid, and (your) Carolyn Arnold in Wiegman! Thank you for finding Vicki Adams and Sarah Styles, too! All of them are great finds! --Tommy PS Is that helmeted Marion Baker walking down the steps on the far left? Edited August 21, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Excellent work...IMHO this and the Training Camp thread (and the short shot thread when it stays on track) are a credit to the forum are great examples of what peer research can accomplish...well done! Thank you, Larry! That makes my day! It's my B-day (or it was on the 20th) so it's all the more reason to celebrate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Lloyd Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 From Tommy in post #125: PS Is that helmeted Marion [sic] Baker walking down the steps on the far left? There is another helmeted cop to be seen on the right of the picture, so I guess there were a few milling around in that area at that time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted August 21, 2015 Share Posted August 21, 2015 Linda spotted Victoria Adams?? Yes, I did. About a year ago I ID'd both Vickie & Sandra Styles and posted my work on a JFK assassination FB group. I just got a pvt message about this from someone so I took the time to upload my Vickie & Sandy photos to Imgur so I could post them here. I found Vickie Adams in those Cook-Cooper stills I posted here (with Jeraldean Reid and Carolyn Arnold), as well as Adams & Styles both in Willis 8 in front of the TSBD, and Styles alone in Willis 15 - near the SE corner of the TSBD near where the 3 wheel motorcycles were parked. She had said in her statements somewhere that she could hear the reports coming over the motorcycle radios there. Sure enough there she was. In the color photos you can see Vickie's dress is bright acqua with a black collar and Sandra's dress has a tiny floral print between vertical blue stripes. I also may have found Vickie in her bright aqua dress and curly blondish hair in the Huges film (though she has her back to the camera so I can't be 100% positive). As for the other photos I am 100% positive it's them. Here is my Imgur Vickie & Sandy photo file which has close up comparisons for all the photos/stills I found them in. They are both are in Willis 8, for example: Tommy said: She does kinda look like Vicki. Yes she does! Because she is! NB: how her hair line has a little "peak" on her right side (our left) in all her photos. I know, Linda, but I gotta show you a little "resistance" from time to time so the others won't figure out that we're c-o-l-l-u-d-i-n-g. Keep up the excellent work, and please don't hesitate to give me everlasting credit for finding Truly standing to the right of (your) Virgie Baker, (somebody else's) Jeraldean Reid, and (your) Carolyn Arnold in Wiegman! Thank you for finding Vicki Adams and Sarah Styles, too! All of them are great finds! --Tommy PS Is that helmeted Marion Baker walking down the steps on the far left? Thank you, Tommy!!!! And LOL! You just cracked me up with the "c-o-l-l-u-d-I-n-g" comment!!! And of course, I give you absolute, total, everlasting credit for finding the Real Roytm Truly!! That was the find of the century! Congrats! And of course credit goes to whomever found Jeraldean Reid etc... And damn! You're right! I didn't see that little white helmet over there on the far left of Willis 8!!! Sure looks like Marrion Baker, exiting stage left, to me! Now I'm in the process of trying to track down the other ladies in the "group" - I'm working on Betty Dragoo at the moment. Just found her dob (Mar 13, 1937) and full name: Betty Jean Powers Dragoo Young - hoping with that info I can track down an old photo now - or even a recent one, so I can find her in the Truly lineup on Elm. According to Intellius she's 78 and living in Wortham, Tx. Anybody know what she or any of the others like Judy Johnson or Bonnie Richey look like? Also in reading tonight I came upon two ladies I'd not been familiar with before who were hanging out together somewhere in the "line up" along the N side of Elm in front of the TSBD: Patricia Ann Lawrence (now Donaldson) & Lupe (aka Lucy) Whitaker. Interestingly, Lawrence said they were only ~7 feet from the corner of Houston & Elm and the Limo was right in front of her when JFK turned to wave and she heard the first shot. As she describes it seems to have also been the early "missed shot" - however, she didn't describe it hitting anywhere on the pavement (as Virgie Rackley Baker did) or hitting JFK, I'm convinced there was this very early missed shot which is why the Z film and the other films have those key frames either totally "disappeared" or "burnt up". Vickie Adams also describes seeing the first shot just after the limo turned the corner onto Elm and was right in front of their 4th flr window just as JFK turned to wave after someone had called his name out. I've noticed several witnesses have described the location of the limo and JFK turning and waving exactly the same way for that first missed shot - that speaks volumes - and I have no doubt it happened! Too many unrelated people with the same story. I read Lawrence/Donaldson made an appearance in "JFK: The Lost Bullet" and after reading that I did recall seeing her in that video. I just looked her photo up and here she is (with Lost Bullet slimebag, Max Holland)...with this maybe I /we can locate her in the "lineup"! I've also come across some very, very intriguing information about Madie Reese and her step companion, Ruth Hilliard Dean... but i'll save that for another day.... You keep up the good work too, Tommy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) In reading employees FBI Statements etc...I accidently came across 2 ladies that sounded like from their statements that they were possibly standing together that day in the Truly group. I couldn't be sure exactly where they were standing from their descriptions until I did further research and located them there in the line. Lupe "Lucy" (Maciel) Whitaker & Patricia Ann Lawrence (now Donaldson) went shopping together at Sangers-Harris before the motorcade arrived. Upon their return they took up positions next to each other in the "Truly group" - in the front line on the north side of Elm in front of the Texas School Book Depository and Steps. There is one unknown lady in black that separates them from Virgie Rackley Baker, and Lupe is standing right next to the "Cowboy Hat Man". Lucy is wearing a very distinctively bold, floral coat, so it makes it easy to find her in Wiegman, Darnell and other photos - like Allen for example. So... I've been busy the last 2 days tracking down photos of them and trying to place them in the group, and can now say I've located Patricia Ann Lawrence (now Donaldson) & Lupe "Lucy" Whitaker. Donaldson recently was in JFK: The Lost Bullet so it was easy to find recent photos of her. But Lupe took some genealogical research. I finally found her maiden name "Maciel" - I figured she was Hispanic because of her given name "Lupe". From there I was able to find HS yearbook photos of her (I'm not a paying member of e-yearbooks or classmates.com so they are blurry - but good enough. So I apologize for the quality of the photos (If anyone here is a member - please go snag some clear ones of Lupe for us! I made some graphics comparisons. Lupe is standing right next to the "Cowboy Hat Man".I've also worked on the little McGraw-Hill trio across Elm St. by the west edge of the reflecting pool: Lloyd Viles, Dolores Kounas & Roberta Parker. I was able to find an obit photo of him. No photos of them yet...but I've been busy! I'll post them in another post. In fact, I'm sure i'll have to break this one up into several parts due to the size limits on graphics imposed.First here's the general layout of where they are in Wiegman:Here's a closeup of the two sniped from Wiegman with comparison photos of Lupe from her HS Yearbook:And here's Patricia Ann Lawrence (Donaldson) compared to Wiegman. Her face was very washed out since she has such pale skin and it was in the bright noonday sun (plus, she's turned to the side, so that didn't help) - so, I had to put it in a photo editor and adjust the brightness, contrast, shadows etc. to get some features to stand out - this was the best I could get it. Maybe, like Lupe we can now find her in other better photos around the TSBD: Well...let me see if these 3 will load. (Edited 9/24/15 6:01pm to replace above graphic. I had noticed I had written her surname as "Donnally" instead of "Donaldson" on the graphic. I fixed it and re-uploaded it). Edited September 24, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Now here are 2 more photos I found Lupe in by herself - both by Allen. I've also found her wandering around toward the Island after the shots in Darnell (just as she described in her statements, doing briefly), but I haven't had time to make a graphic of it. But if you want just look thru the Darnell stills. She's nearer the foreground you can't miss her in that distinctive floral print coat! Once you see her in one you see her all over the place! And here's the 2nd one: Now on to the Lloyd Viles Trio!.... Edited August 23, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Now here are 2 more photos I found Lupe in by herself - both by Allen. I've also found her wandering around toward the Island after the shots in Darnell (just as she described in her statements, doing briefly), but I haven't had time to make a graphic of it. But if you want just look thru the Darnell stills. She's nearer the foreground you can't miss her in that distinctive floral print coat! Once you see her in one you see her all over the place! And here's the 2nd one: Now on to the Lloyd Viles Trio!.... More excellent work from Linda! It's good that we're finally figuring out who was who in Wiegman, Darnell-Couch, etc., and that the Tom Alyea footage of Truly and Baker conferring with some other men (one of whom only looked like Senator Cooper) inside the TSBD really was filmed on 11/22/63, etc, etc., etc. I would like to know who the two guys dressed in khaki work clothes were, standing to the left of Stetson Hat Man in Wiegman. At least we now know that they weren't Truly and Campbell as was widely believed just a couple of years ago. LOL Keep up the good work, Linda! --Tommy Edited August 25, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Knight Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Looks like some EXCELLENT detective work here! Thanks, Linda! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) Looks like some EXCELLENT detective work here! Thanks, Linda! Thank you, Mark & Tommy!!! And you're welcome! I've also ID'd a couple more Truly-ettes since then - BONNIE RICHEY & JUDY JOHNSON! It's been a couple of wks ago now that i ID'd Bonnie via year book photos and she is just who i was guessing she might be (because she was hanging out with Carolyn Arnold and caring for her - in Cook-Cooper - and they were both OV Campbell's secretaries! So they were probably great buddies. But i've been onto so much stuff lately (i'm on a roll!) it's like the planets have aligned - i just haven't had time to get bk here to this thread and post her or Judy Johnson who i just found a a couple of nights ago in yearbook photos! So first here's Bonnie she started Abilene Christian College in '65, the 1st photo i found was from the '66 yearbook, then '68: Cook-Cooper Film: ADDENDUM: and as of today I believe the very petite "scarf" girl in front of Carolyn Arnold is JUDY JOHNSON! But that is a little tentative. However, it is the only 3/4 length coat i've found a very petite woman wearing in this group. So i'm pretty certain... Edited September 15, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) Looks like some EXCELLENT detective work here! Thanks, Linda! Thank you, Mark & Tommy!!! And you're welcome! I've also ID'd a couple more Truly-ettes since then - BONNIE RICHEY & JUDY JOHNSON! It's been a couple of wks ago now that i ID'd Bonnie via year book photos and she is just who i was guessing she might be (because she was hanging out with Carolyn Arnold and caring for her - in Cook-Cooper - and they were both OV Campbell's secretaries! So they were probably great buddies. But i've been onto so much stuff lately (i'm on a roll!) it's like the planets have aligned - i just haven't had time to get bk here to this thread and post her or Judy Johnson who i just found a a couple of nights ago in yearbook photos! So first here's Bonnie she started Abilene Christian College in '65, the 1st photo i found was from the '66 yearbook, then '68: Ok....these freaking space limits are driving me crazy!!!! What's the purpose??!! I'm just going to go thru a lot of hassle trying to figure out how many to eliminate so this damned thing will post and then i'm going to post the rest of the - anyway - below in another post! Edited September 15, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linda Giovanna Zambanini Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) Continued...grrrrrrrr.... Wiegman - Truly Group: As of today I believe the very petite "Scarf Girl" in front of Carolyn Arnold in the Truly Group, on Elm in Wiegman, is is JUDY JOHNSON, who was a very petite brunette (she's coming up)! But that is a little tentative. However, she said she was in a 3/4 length light green coat (with orange gloves) and so far the "Scarf Girl" is the only one i spot wearing a 3/4 length coat and she's also a very petite woman. So i'm 99.9999999% certain. Edited September 15, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted September 15, 2015 Share Posted September 15, 2015 (edited) [...]\ Wiegman - Truly Group: Linda, Great work! One observation I'd like to make regarding the big guy standing next to Truly whom we've tentatively identified as Ochus V. Campbell -- He appears to be wearing a coat and tie. I believe that he is Campbell and that he may well be the same man in Couch / Darnell who sidesteps out of the way for Baker and motions him up the steps with his left arm. Keep up the good work! --Tommy Edited September 15, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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