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OK -- I have had an opportunity to check a random selection of FBI files listed on the NARA database printout.

Many of the subject names mean absolutely nothing to me -- but perhaps you guys will see some relevance to some of the names appearing below?

In addition, I have an inquiry pending with the Supervisor in Charge of NARA's JFK Processing Project. [i will let you know if he gives me any new info.]

(1) Among the most prolific references on the NARA list are serials from FBI HQ file 62-116395

-- which is the Administrative File for the Church Committee aka Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Activities. As you probably know, the Church Committee published 14 reports in 1974-1975 on various aspects of U.S. intelligence activities including: FBI, CIA, and NSA.

(2) Other files listed as containing documents which will not be released until 2017 are:

HQ 87-85407 which is on Edwward Browder Jr. This has something to do with a car rental and Interstate Transportation of Stolen Property

HQ 62-117290 which is the "HSCA Liaison File"

HQ 100-32965 which is on George DeMohrenschildt

HQ 105-98177 which is on Louis Henry James

HQ 92-2713 which is on Carlos Marcello

HQ 92-4225 which is on Joseph Civello

HQ 105-74151 which is on Alberto Blanco / Cuban activities

HQ 105-82793 which is on Juan Almeida Bosque (Cuban Army Chief of Staff)

HQ 87-20826 which is on William J. Waldman, VP of Klein Sporting Goods in Chicago re: rifle sale to "A.J. Hidell"

HQ 105-1095 which is on Pro-Castro and Anti-Castro Activities (includes discussion of Carlos Bringuier and Edward Butler)

HQ 65-31442 which is on Alexander Rorke and Jean L. Musa (related to espionage activities)

HQ 166-4028 -- unknown subject but the "166" classification pertains to Interstate Transportation in Aid of Racketeering

SPECIAL NOTE TO PAUL TREJO:

(3) There are NO references in the NARA database to documents being withheld until 2017 with respect to any of the following subjects:

1. A. Roswell Thompson

2. American Volunteer Group

3. Billy James Hargis

4. Charles A. Willoughby

5. Congress of Freedom

6. Constitution Party

7. Council For Statehood

8. Dan Smoot

9. Edgar Eugene Bradley

10. Edwin A. Walker

11. Ezra Taft Benson

12. Frank A. Capell

13. Guy Banister

14. Guy Galbadon

15. H.L. Hunt

16. Harry Dean

17. Herbert (Wally) Butterworth

18. J. Evetts Haley

19. John Birch Society

20. John G. Crommelin

21. John Rarick

22. John Rousselot

23. Joseph Milteer

24. Kenneth Goff

25. Kent Courtney

26. Leander Perez

27. Minutemen

28. Ned Touchstone

29. Nelson Bunker Hunt

30. Pedro A. del Valle

31. Ray Leahart

32. Revilo P. Oliver

33. Robert J. Morris

34. Robert Surrey

35. Robert Welch

36. Roy Elonza Davis Sr.

37. Theodore Jackman

38. Thomas J. Anderson

39. William Potter Gale

40. Willie Somersett

OK, not directly, perhaps. But just take one small example:

  • HQ 105-1095 which is on Pro-Castro and Anti-Castro Activities (includes discussion of Carlos Bringuier and Edward Butler)

Carlos Bringuier, as Jeffrey Caufield demonstrates with solid citations, was a close contact of both General Walker and Guy Banister as well as Lee Harvey Oswald.

There is much that is IMPLIED within those bullets, Ernie -- and without actually having them in hand (which you still don't have) you can't really tell the world what's INSIDE of them. Though you may try.

The evidence that Jeffrey Caufield exhibited has been a revolution in JFK Conspiracy Theory by returning to Harry Dean's 1965 theory that General Walker was the mastermind of the JFK murder, and by providing hundreds of citations to solidify the historical point.

I still maintain, Ernie, that you frankly have no firm grasp on the Top Secret information that that US Government still holds on the JFK assassination -- even though you keep claiming that you do.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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OK -- I have had an opportunity to check a random selection of FBI files listed on the NARA database printout.

Many of the subject names mean absolutely nothing to me -- but perhaps you guys will see some relevance to some of the names appearing below?

In addition, I have an inquiry pending with the Supervisor in Charge of NARA's JFK Processing Project. [i will let you know if he gives me any new info.]

(1) Among the most prolific references on the NARA list are serials from FBI HQ file 62-116395

-- which is the Administrative File for the Church Committee aka Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Activities. As you probably know, the Church Committee published 14 reports in 1974-1975 on various aspects of U.S. intelligence activities including: FBI, CIA, and NSA.

(2) Other files listed as containing documents which will not be released until 2017 are:

HQ 87-85407 which is on Edwward Browder Jr. This has something to do with a car rental and Interstate Transportation of Stolen Property

HQ 62-117290 which is the "HSCA Liaison File"

HQ 100-32965 which is on George DeMohrenschildt

HQ 105-98177 which is on Louis Henry James

HQ 92-2713 which is on Carlos Marcello

HQ 92-4225 which is on Joseph Civello

HQ 105-74151 which is on Alberto Blanco / Cuban activities

HQ 105-82793 which is on Juan Almeida Bosque (Cuban Army Chief of Staff)

HQ 87-20826 which is on William J. Waldman, VP of Klein Sporting Goods in Chicago re: rifle sale to "A.J. Hidell"

HQ 105-1095 which is on Pro-Castro and Anti-Castro Activities (includes discussion of Carlos Bringuier and Edward Butler)

HQ 65-31442 which is on Alexander Rorke and Jean L. Musa (related to espionage activities)

HQ 166-4028 -- unknown subject but the "166" classification pertains to Interstate Transportation in Aid of Racketeering

SPECIAL NOTE TO PAUL TREJO:

(3) There are NO references in the NARA database to documents being withheld until 2017 with respect to any of the following subjects:

1. A. Roswell Thompson

2. American Volunteer Group

3. Billy James Hargis

4. Charles A. Willoughby

5. Congress of Freedom

6. Constitution Party

7. Council For Statehood

8. Dan Smoot

9. Edgar Eugene Bradley

10. Edwin A. Walker

11. Ezra Taft Benson

12. Frank A. Capell

13. Guy Banister

14. Guy Galbadon

15. H.L. Hunt

16. Harry Dean

17. Herbert (Wally) Butterworth

18. J. Evetts Haley

19. John Birch Society

20. John G. Crommelin

21. John Rarick

22. John Rousselot

23. Joseph Milteer

24. Kenneth Goff

25. Kent Courtney

26. Leander Perez

27. Minutemen

28. Ned Touchstone

29. Nelson Bunker Hunt

30. Pedro A. del Valle

31. Ray Leahart

32. Revilo P. Oliver

33. Robert J. Morris

34. Robert Surrey

35. Robert Welch

36. Roy Elonza Davis Sr.

37. Theodore Jackman

38. Thomas J. Anderson

39. William Potter Gale

40. Willie Somersett

OK, not directly, perhaps. But just take one small example:

  • HQ 105-1095 which is on Pro-Castro and Anti-Castro Activities (includes discussion of Carlos Bringuier and Edward Butler)

Carlos Bringuier, as Jeffrey Caufield demonstrates with solid citations, was a close contact of both General Walker and Guy Banister as well as Lee Harvey Oswald.

There is much that is IMPLIED within those bullets, Ernie -- and without actually having them in hand (which you still don't have) you can't really tell the world what's INSIDE of them. Though you may try.

The evidence that Jeffrey Caufield exhibited has been a revolution in JFK Conspiracy Theory by returning to Harry Dean's 1965 theory that General Walker was the mastermind of the JFK murder, and by providing hundreds of citations to solidify the historical point.

I still maintain, Ernie, that you frankly have no firm grasp on the Top Secret information that that US Government still holds on the JFK assassination -- even though you keep claiming that you do.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Once again, Paul, you have misrepresented my position.

The NARA database does specify the classification of the documents being withheld until 2017. Consequently, I can tell you that of the 3603 records listed (from all agencies) there are 34 documents which were originally classified "Top Secret". I list them below.

The single largest classification category of all documents listed is "unclassified".

The second largest classification is "not marked" which are all CIA documents. Of that group - LHO's "201 file" has the greatest number of "not marked" listings.

I have separated out (and *asterisked) the FBI documents which were classified "Top Secret". You will notice that there are only TWO in the 124-series plus ONE in the 178-series!

So, yet again, we have further empirical evidence that your position is entirely an hallucination!

"TOP SECRET" DOCUMENTS WHICH REMAIN TO BE RELEASED IN 2017

NARA number.........General Subject(s) Discussed

178-10004-10395 = Sturgis tapes transcript 4/4/75

178-10004-10215 = Castro (Rockefeller Commission)

178-10004-10196 = Trujillo assassination / Cuba

178-10003-10445 = CIA transmittal memo (no subject shown)

178-10003-10387 = David Belin / Dominican Republic assassination

178-10003-10333 = Castro / Covert Activities

178-10003-10295 = Deposition of CIA Director Richard Helms

178-10062-10337 = Royal Canadian Mounted Police report (no subject shown)

*178-10175-10480 = J. Edgar Hoover to John W. Fain re: a news article (unknown subject)

178-10003-10244 = Dominican Republic

178-10003-10131 = Reaction of Soviet Communist Party officials to JFK Murder

178-10002-10038 = Rockefeller Commission "Belin-Gray-Greene files" (treated as Top Secret "due to codeword used")

177-10002-10104 = Diplomatic Summary re: Vietnam

177-10002-10100 = CIA Intelligence Briefing

177-10002-10095 = World Reaction to JFK Murder (codeword used)

177-10002-10093 = World Reaction to JFK Murder

176-10011-10145 = McGeorge Bundy memo

176-10010-10041 = Military Contingency Planning

176-10010-10019 = Future Policy Toward Cuba

180-10110-10485 = HSCA - classified documents, control files

157-10002-10179 = Release of Church Committee Report

177-10001-10033 = CIA Intelligence File on LHO

177-10001-10076 = Defection of Soviet Spy Yuri Nosenko

177-10001-10297 = C.V. Clifton meeting with President LBJ (Military aide to LBJ)

177-10001-10297 = C.V. Clifton meeting with President LBJ

*124-90146-10070 = FBI file 105-93072, serials 169-182 (Richard Thomas Gibson / FPCC)

*124-90146-10106 = FBI file 105-93072, serials 128-131 (Richard Thomas Gibson / FPCC)

157-10014-10004 = James J. Angelton testimony (CIA Associate Deputy Director)

157-10014-10006 = James J. Angelton testimony

157-10014-10084 = Church Committee hearings

157-10014-10090 = Church Committee hearings

157-10014-10144 = Church Committee miscellaneous records

198-10001-10007 = Administrative Asst to Secretary of the Army - General Counsel files

198-10001-10012 = Administrative Asst to Secretary of the Army - General Counsel files

Edited by Ernie Lazar
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As a supplement to my previous message to Paul, I just wanted to provide a summary of the NARA accession prefix codes used to identify agency which created each document:

104 = CIA

111 = Defense Intelligence Agency

119 = Department of State

124 = FBI

137 = IRS

154 = Secret Service

157 = SSCIA (Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Activities)

173 = ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence)

177 = appears to be White House

178 = Rockefeller Commission

179 = NARA

180 = HSCA (House Select Committee on Assassinations)

181 = NARA

198 = OSA (Office of the Secretary of the Army)

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Once again, Paul, you have misrepresented my position.

The NARA database does specify the classification of the documents being withheld until 2017. Consequently, I can tell you that of the 3603 records listed (from all agencies) there are 34 documents which were originally classified "Top Secret". I list them below.

The single largest classification category of all documents listed is "unclassified".

The second largest classification is "not marked" which are all CIA documents. Of that group - LHO's "201 file" has the greatest number of "not marked" listings.

I have separated out (and *asterisked) the FBI documents which were classified "Top Secret". You will notice that there are only TWO in the 124-series plus ONE in the 178-series!

So, yet again, we have further empirical evidence that your position is entirely an hallucination!

"TOP SECRET" DOCUMENTS WHICH REMAIN TO BE RELEASED IN 2017

NARA number.........General Subject(s) Discussed

178-10004-10395 = Sturgis tapes transcript 4/4/75

178-10004-10215 = Castro (Rockefeller Commission)

178-10004-10196 = Trujillo assassination / Cuba

178-10003-10445 = CIA transmittal memo (no subject shown)

178-10003-10387 = David Belin / Dominican Republic assassination

178-10003-10333 = Castro / Covert Activities

178-10003-10295 = Deposition of CIA Director Richard Helms

178-10062-10337 = Royal Canadian Mounted Police report (no subject shown)

*178-10175-10480 = J. Edgar Hoover to John W. Fain re: a news article (unknown subject)

178-10003-10244 = Dominican Republic

178-10003-10131 = Reaction of Soviet Communist Party officials to JFK Murder

178-10002-10038 = Rockefeller Commission "Belin-Gray-Greene files" (treated as Top Secret "due to codeword used")

177-10002-10104 = Diplomatic Summary re: Vietnam

177-10002-10100 = CIA Intelligence Briefing

177-10002-10095 = World Reaction to JFK Murder (codeword used)

177-10002-10093 = World Reaction to JFK Murder

176-10011-10145 = McGeorge Bundy memo

176-10010-10041 = Military Contingency Planning

176-10010-10019 = Future Policy Toward Cuba

180-10110-10485 = HSCA - classified documents, control files

157-10002-10179 = Release of Church Committee Report

177-10001-10033 = CIA Intelligence File on LHO

177-10001-10076 = Defection of Soviet Spy Yuri Nosenko

177-10001-10297 = C.V. Clifton meeting with President LBJ (Military aide to LBJ)

177-10001-10297 = C.V. Clifton meeting with President LBJ

*124-90146-10070 = FBI file 105-93072, serials 169-182 (Richard Thomas Gibson / FPCC)

*124-90146-10106 = FBI file 105-93072, serials 128-131 (Richard Thomas Gibson / FPCC)

157-10014-10004 = James J. Angelton testimony (CIA Associate Deputy Director)

157-10014-10006 = James J. Angelton testimony

157-10014-10084 = Church Committee hearings

157-10014-10090 = Church Committee hearings

157-10014-10144 = Church Committee miscellaneous records

198-10001-10007 = Administrative Asst to Secretary of the Army - General Counsel files

198-10001-10012 = Administrative Asst to Secretary of the Army - General Counsel files

Well, Ernie, before I accept your version of what is to be delivered by the JFK Records Act on 26 October 2017, how can I be certain that your Sources are telling you EVERYTHING that will be released on that date?

How can we be sure?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

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Once again, Paul, you have misrepresented my position.

The NARA database does specify the classification of the documents being withheld until 2017. Consequently, I can tell you that of the 3603 records listed (from all agencies) there are 34 documents which were originally classified "Top Secret". I list them below.

The single largest classification category of all documents listed is "unclassified".

The second largest classification is "not marked" which are all CIA documents. Of that group - LHO's "201 file" has the greatest number of "not marked" listings.

I have separated out (and *asterisked) the FBI documents which were classified "Top Secret". You will notice that there are only TWO in the 124-series plus ONE in the 178-series!

So, yet again, we have further empirical evidence that your position is entirely an hallucination!

"TOP SECRET" DOCUMENTS WHICH REMAIN TO BE RELEASED IN 2017

NARA number.........General Subject(s) Discussed

178-10004-10395 = Sturgis tapes transcript 4/4/75

178-10004-10215 = Castro (Rockefeller Commission)

178-10004-10196 = Trujillo assassination / Cuba

178-10003-10445 = CIA transmittal memo (no subject shown)

178-10003-10387 = David Belin / Dominican Republic assassination

178-10003-10333 = Castro / Covert Activities

178-10003-10295 = Deposition of CIA Director Richard Helms

178-10062-10337 = Royal Canadian Mounted Police report (no subject shown)

*178-10175-10480 = J. Edgar Hoover to John W. Fain re: a news article (unknown subject)

178-10003-10244 = Dominican Republic

178-10003-10131 = Reaction of Soviet Communist Party officials to JFK Murder

178-10002-10038 = Rockefeller Commission "Belin-Gray-Greene files" (treated as Top Secret "due to codeword used")

177-10002-10104 = Diplomatic Summary re: Vietnam

177-10002-10100 = CIA Intelligence Briefing

177-10002-10095 = World Reaction to JFK Murder (codeword used)

177-10002-10093 = World Reaction to JFK Murder

176-10011-10145 = McGeorge Bundy memo

176-10010-10041 = Military Contingency Planning

176-10010-10019 = Future Policy Toward Cuba

180-10110-10485 = HSCA - classified documents, control files

157-10002-10179 = Release of Church Committee Report

177-10001-10033 = CIA Intelligence File on LHO

177-10001-10076 = Defection of Soviet Spy Yuri Nosenko

177-10001-10297 = C.V. Clifton meeting with President LBJ (Military aide to LBJ)

177-10001-10297 = C.V. Clifton meeting with President LBJ

*124-90146-10070 = FBI file 105-93072, serials 169-182 (Richard Thomas Gibson / FPCC)

*124-90146-10106 = FBI file 105-93072, serials 128-131 (Richard Thomas Gibson / FPCC)

157-10014-10004 = James J. Angelton testimony (CIA Associate Deputy Director)

157-10014-10006 = James J. Angelton testimony

157-10014-10084 = Church Committee hearings

157-10014-10090 = Church Committee hearings

157-10014-10144 = Church Committee miscellaneous records

198-10001-10007 = Administrative Asst to Secretary of the Army - General Counsel files

198-10001-10012 = Administrative Asst to Secretary of the Army - General Counsel files

Well, Ernie, before I accept your version of what is to be delivered by the JFK Records Act on 26 October 2017, how can I be certain that your Sources are telling you EVERYTHING that will be released on that date?

How can we be sure?

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

More than a year ago, I predicted that your ultimate argument would be some permutation of your comment above.

The plain truth of the matter Paul, is that YOU will NEVER be "sure" about anything because as I have repeatedly stated, your intellectual escape hatch will ALWAYS be that there are "smoking gun" documents which have either been destroyed or will be withheld.

As I have always pointed out -- FICTION WRITERS can propose ANYTHING -- no matter how absurd, irrational, counter-intuitive, or baseless.

The rest of us must rely not just upon our own accumulated knowledge but we also rely upon the accumulated knowledge of many other knowledgeable and experienced persons who are experts in their fields because they have been willing to spend vast amounts of their time dealing with every arcane and picayune detail imaginable.

If we limit this discussion to ONLY "FBI Records" there are numerous independent sources of reliable and verifiable factual information concerning the FBI's record-keeping processes and their indexing systems.

BUT...the problem has ALWAYS been that YOU refuse to immerse yourself in all that data because you know it is NOT convenient to your conspiratorial arguments.

Edited by Ernie Lazar
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More than a year ago, I predicted that your ultimate argument would be some permutation of your comment above.

The plain truth of the matter Paul, is that YOU will NEVER be "sure" about anything because as I have repeatedly stated, your intellectual escape hatch will ALWAYS be that there are "smoking gun" documents which have either been destroyed or will be withheld.

As I have always pointed out -- FICTION WRITERS can propose ANYTHING -- no matter how absurd, irrational, counter-intuitive, or baseless.

The rest of us must rely not just upon our own accumulated knowledge but we also rely upon the accumulated knowledge of many other knowledgeable and experienced persons who are experts in their fields because they have been willing to spend vast amounts of their time dealing with every arcane and picayune detail imaginable.

If we limit this discussion to ONLY "FBI Records" there are numerous independent sources of reliable and verifiable factual information concerning the FBI's record-keeping processes and their indexing systems.

BUT...the problem has ALWAYS been that YOU refuse to immerse yourself in all that data because you know it is NOT convenient to your conspiratorial arguments.

Actually, Ernie, you didn't answer my question.

Unless your answer is: "We can never be sure."

Actually, we can be sure, according to my own criterion, on Thursday 26 October 2017, when the JFK Records Act is finally fulfilled, and the US Government finally releases all of its truly Top Secret documents on the JFK murder.

Also, don't be so defensive, Ernie. I wasn't saying that your list is INCOMPLETE, I'm only saying that it MIGHT be INCOMPLETE. I really didn't expect you to agree with me so quickly.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

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More than a year ago, I predicted that your ultimate argument would be some permutation of your comment above.

The plain truth of the matter Paul, is that YOU will NEVER be "sure" about anything because as I have repeatedly stated, your intellectual escape hatch will ALWAYS be that there are "smoking gun" documents which have either been destroyed or will be withheld.

As I have always pointed out -- FICTION WRITERS can propose ANYTHING -- no matter how absurd, irrational, counter-intuitive, or baseless.

The rest of us must rely not just upon our own accumulated knowledge but we also rely upon the accumulated knowledge of many other knowledgeable and experienced persons who are experts in their fields because they have been willing to spend vast amounts of their time dealing with every arcane and picayune detail imaginable.

If we limit this discussion to ONLY "FBI Records" there are numerous independent sources of reliable and verifiable factual information concerning the FBI's record-keeping processes and their indexing systems.

BUT...the problem has ALWAYS been that YOU refuse to immerse yourself in all that data because you know it is NOT convenient to your conspiratorial arguments.

Actually, Ernie, you didn't answer my question.

Unless your answer is: "We can never be sure."

Actually, we can be sure, according to my own criterion, on Thursday 26 October 2017, when the JFK Records Act is finally fulfilled, and the US Government finally releases all of its truly Top Secret documents on the JFK murder.

Also, don't be so defensive, Ernie. I wasn't saying that your list is INCOMPLETE, I'm only saying that it MIGHT be INCOMPLETE. I really didn't expect you to agree with me so quickly.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

I did not "agree" with your premise Paul....I simply pointed out that you are using a self-sealing circular argument which can never be falsified to your satisfaction because you can ALWAYS allege that something has been "withheld" -- regardless of empirical evidence.

Do you recall our previous exchanges when I pointed out why your "theory" was defective because (among other reasons) the FBI has no way to edit or suppress the indexing systems of all the recipient agencies which have received documents authored by FBI employees? Your position during that discussion was that Hoover et al actually did have that type of ability -- just like Hoover supposedly arranged for the entire U.S. government to adopt the "Lone Nut" theory.

Then I pointed out that many FBI employees (post Hoover's death in 1972) welcomed the critical scrutiny which the FBI was subjected to by Congress, by the media, by historians etc. and many of those same employees were hostile toward Hoover and the type of institution he created. Consequently, those indivduals would have no reason to defend Hoover's illegal activities nor would they have any plausible reason to facilitate the continued suppression of documentary evidence concerning any sort of "right wing plot" to murder JFK. Nevertheless, nobody with knowledge of FBI files came forward to reveal what YOU think was the prevailing attitude within the FBI vis-a-vis the existence of a "right wing plot".

Your position has ALWAYS been consistently hostile toward any suggestion that independent outside analysts and researchers have the ability to at least discover the existence of alleged "Top Secret" documents.

By "discover" -- I mean using normal methods to find references to those documents. There are numerous methods which could be used.

For example:

1. Anybody familiar with FBI record-keeping processes knows that a memo or report and even copies of FBI employee speeches and FBI monographs can be (and often were) channeled into numerous FBI HQ or field office files as a cross-reference.

In addition, the FBI authored literally scores of monographs which it used internally for training purposes and often those monographs contained detailed footnotes which identified the FBI file numbers which contained the supporting documentation for statements made in the monograph. To make matters even more interesting, speeches made by FBI employees (even including J. Edgar Hoover) often contain bibliographic footnotes which were used internally to alert FBI employees regarding which FBI files contained the substantiation for whatever statements were made in the speech.

I once pointed out to you (in a private email) that I have seen examples where just one serial about a CPUSA-related subject was channeled into DOZENS of different files.

I also mentioned to you that, over a period of about 2 years, I requested and obtained one June 1960 serial from 6 different FBI HQ and field office files which discussed the membership of an alleged JBS chapter in Beverly Hills CA and, as a result, I was eventually able to see the entire text of that 3-page serial with no redaction of the names of all the Hollywood personalities specified in that serial.

So my point is: there is no conceivable method which would prevent a diligent researcher from discovering EVERY conceivable reference to such material.

2. The FBI sent its memos and reports to literally hundreds of different agencies and departments and entities (i.e. to city, county, state and federal law enforcement agencies, to the White House, to the Secret Service, to the CIA, to the State Department, as well as to Congressional legislative committees, AND to military intelligence agencies plus the security units of every other government department) AND it also sent confidential and secret information to law enforcement agencies in foreign governments AND it often shared material in its files with literally THOUSANDS of other recipients including newspaper editors and reporters, Congressmen, Governors, Mayors, veterans organizations, and anybody else whom the FBI thought could help shape the national debate about issues which the FBI cared about.

There is no conceivable method by which the FBI could suppress the existence of every document it ever sent outside the FBI -- such as purging all the references in the recipient's record-keeping and indexing systems OR suppressing or purging the letters, memos, and reports which those recipients then created and shared with their own employees or with other recipients.

The ultimate problem is YOUR understanding about how ANY large bureaucracy functions (whether a government agency, a corporation, an educational or charitable institution, or any other private entity) -- particularly because often those entities are very detail-oriented and they arrange their own systems to list and cross-reference information so that it can easily be retrieved.

THAT is why I continue to maintain that your "theory" is not really a "theory" because it is NOT falsifiable. It is a self-sealing circular argument which is impervious to normal logic and evidence.

Edited by Ernie Lazar
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<snip>

...The ultimate problem is YOUR understanding about how ANY large bureaucracy functions (whether a government agency, a corporation, an educational or charitable institution, or any other private entity) -- particularly because often those entities are very detail-oriented and they arrange their own systems to list and cross-reference information so that it can easily be retrieved.

THAT is why I continue to maintain that your "theory" is not really a "theory" because it is NOT falsifiable. It is a self-sealing circular argument which is impervious to normal logic and evidence.

Actually, Ernie, though I'm close to retirement now, I've traveled in Europe, Asia and the Americas, consulting for computer departments in large, multi-national corporations, including several from the Fortune 100. So, actually, I know very well how large bureaucracies function, and at the level of computerized databases, no less.

So, your assumptions of me are, as usual, incorrect.

As for the falsification of my theory, Ernie, I've already set the criterion firmly and empirically -- namely -- when the JFK Record Act finally reveals the USA Top Secret files on the JFK murder -- which it has withheld for more than a half-century -- then I will either crow about the correctness of my long-held CT, or I will honestly admit, publicly, that I was mistaken.

I have no idea why you're so anxious to prove me wrong, Ernie, but you should probably try to calm down, and make your accusations match the actual facts available to you, without exaggeration.

Because, although you strain to be perfectly logical, you still have a tendency to overstate your case.

The Truth remains -- my guess is as good as yours when it comes to the Top Secret FBI documents about the JFK murder.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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<snip>

...The ultimate problem is YOUR understanding about how ANY large bureaucracy functions (whether a government agency, a corporation, an educational or charitable institution, or any other private entity) -- particularly because often those entities are very detail-oriented and they arrange their own systems to list and cross-reference information so that it can easily be retrieved.

THAT is why I continue to maintain that your "theory" is not really a "theory" because it is NOT falsifiable. It is a self-sealing circular argument which is impervious to normal logic and evidence.

Actually, Ernie, though I'm close to retirement now, I've traveled in Europe, Asia and the Americas, consulting for computer departments in large, multi-national corporations, including several from the Fortune 100. So, actually, I know very well how large bureaucracies function, and at the level of computerized databases, no less.

So, your assumptions of me are, as usual, incorrect.

As for the falsification of my theory, Ernie, I've already set the criterion firmly and empirically -- namely -- when the JFK Record Act finally reveals the USA Top Secret files on the JFK murder -- which it has withheld for more than a half-century -- then I will either crow about the correctness of my long-held CT, or I will honestly admit, publicly, that I was mistaken.

I have no idea why you're so anxious to prove me wrong, Ernie, but you should probably try to calm down, and make your accusations match the actual facts available to you, without exaggeration.

Because, although you strain to be perfectly logical, you still have a tendency to overstate your case.

The Truth remains -- my guess is as good as yours when it comes to the Top Secret FBI documents about the JFK murder.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Again, Paul, you use misdirection to make your argument. My comment about other large bureaucracies pertained to their record-keeping and indexing systems. You may have "consulted" with many different departments but did you have any specific responsibility with respect to creating or maintaining or revising their records-keeping and indexing systems?

In other words, can you tell us precisely how information created by those organizations or received by those organizations was then captured and indexed?

For the LAST time -- there are no "Top Secret Files" --so stop confusing the issue.

However, there are files which contain individual classified documents (aka serials originally marked "confidential", "secret", "top secret" or "official use only"). HOWEVER -- there are NO "Top Secret" serials pertaining to the Birch Society or the key actors which are part of YOUR theory.

HOWEVER:

IF you have specific verifiable empirical evidence (not suppositions, not speculations, not rumors, not gossip, not hearsay, not fictional inventions) about the existence of ANY "classified" material NOT listed by NARA and NOT listed by the ARRB == then by all means present it now so we can evaluate your data.

As previously brought to your attention, there are protocols which have been in place for many decades with respect to automatic declassification of all government documents -- which is why so much previously "classified" material is currently available (often without redaction) on the Mary Ferrell website and other websites.

In addition, the NARA database shows whether or not each individual document in their database (scheduled for release in 2017) is still classified and, if so, at what level. In addition -- the NARA database also specifies the number of pages for each document. Sometimes, the annotations refer to a "classified" document which actually is only one page of a multi-page serial (perhaps because a codeword was used on that page OR reference was made to an intelligence source used to obtain the information).

Edited by Ernie Lazar
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OK, this is just going around in circles.

Let's get back to the issue here, which is Jeff Caufield's new book: General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: The Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015).

Jeff Caufield doesn't focus on the upcoming JFK Records Act revelations of October 2017. Let's get back to reviewing his book.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
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Lazar

Can you be kind enough to show either a FBI or CIA account of a meeting in Chicago

as arranged by one of them in the 1960s requesting a meeting between them and

Harry Dean upon his return from Cuba re; Cuba information just prior and including

information on the US. invasion of Cuba and et al ? And or other such intelligence

meetings by same ?

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Lazar

Can you be kind enough to show either a FBI or CIA account of a meeting in Chicago

as arranged by one of them in the 1960s requesting a meeting between them and

Harry Dean upon his return from Cuba re; Cuba information just prior and including

information on the US. invasion of Cuba and et al ? And or other such intelligence

meetings by same ?

No I can't. No FBI or CIA file about you contains any such document.

The only documents I have found are FBI memos which discuss a December 10, 1963 interview of you by FBI Special Agents Richard L. Cromwell and William J. McCauley at your then-residence, 18109 Atina Drive, La Puente CA. During this interview, you never told FBI Agents about any sort of de-briefing in Chicago which you supposedly had with FBI and CIA after your trip to Cuba.

The SAC of the FBI-Los Angeles office sent FBI Director Hoover a summary memo dated 12/10/63 concerning your interview -- as follows:

“Dean produced a receipt indicating he joined the FPCC in Chicago on 7/28/60, and was a member of the J26M in Chicago on 4/5/61. He said he had connections, however, with the J26M as early as 1958, visited Cuba in June 1960, and on his return to Chicago had joined the FPCC at the instigation of one Juan Del Rosario and Joaquin Freire, then Cuban Consul in Chicago (since defected). He said that shortly after he joined the FPCC and was elected secretary of the chapter in Chicago, he discovered he was associated with Communists and Trotskyites, and that about early August 1960 he contacted the FBI in Chicago. He said he thereafter furnished information concerning the FPCC and J26M orally to the FBI in Chicago until about July 1961 when he moved with his family to California.
Dean said that he is fully aware that his association with the above organizations was initiated and continued on his own volition, that he had no intention of furnishing information to the FBI for money, but only out of patriotic interest. He said that he has never considered himself as an undercover agent of the FBI, or as one authorized to represent or act for it in any official capacity, and that he has never intended claiming any such relationship with it.
He said that he was not so concerned over the fact his name appeared in the Senate Subcommittee report on the hearings of the FPCC in Chicago on July 13, 14, 1961, as that he was never called to testify as he feels he could have effectively exposed the whole matter from personal knowledge and helped to ruin the FPCC. He added that it is possible he might some day be concerned with an employment clearance, but that he is presently suffering no jeopardy working as a plasterer out of the Plasters Local number 2 of Los Angeles. It was explained to him that the Bureau neither issues nor denies clearances concerning anyone, that it would be the responsibility of the particular defense agency concerned. Dean said he understood the policy. It is understood that Dean is in possession of considerable literature of an anti-Communist nature. Additional information relating to the FPCC and the J26M furnished by Dean will be made the subject of a separate communication.”
That "separate communication" was SAC-Los Angeles to J. Edgar Hoover, dated January 28. 1964:
This serial summarizes the 16 items (correspondence, literature, flyers) which Dean gave to Agents Cromwell and McCauley such as letters to Harry from Dr. Juan A. Orta, Chief Director, Cuban Prime Minister’s Office and receipts showing Harry had paid dues to FPCC and to J26M; and notices about various FPCC and J26M meetings scheduled in Chicago in 1960 and 1961.
This serial also summarizes how Harry accidentally met Edgar Swabeck at the Miami airport in June 1960 while en route to Cuba and their subsequent interrogation by Frank Vega (Cuban G-2 officer).
POSTSCRIPT
For anybody who wants to see the 16 literature items which Harry gave to the FBI-Los Angeles in December 1963, the FBI-Los Angeles file is here:
If you want to see the actual FBI memos discussing the matter -- then scroll to serials 10 and 11
NOTE: When NARA copied this FBI file for me, they copied it in reverse order so the 16 literature items are at the very end of the file and the serials are also in reverse order.
Edited by Ernie Lazar
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NARA REPLY TO MY INQUIRY

This morning I received a very detailed reply from NARA to my inquiry concerning what JFK-related records will be released in October 2017. I copy that reply below. I have excised the name of my friend who submitted an FOIA request to obtain the printout of NARA's database because he asked me to keep his name private.

In addition, I sent the NARA JFK Project Supervisor who replied to my inquiry, one brief follow-up question and when I get his reply, I will post that. My follow-up question is intended to answer, once and for all, Paul's silly arguments about "Top Secret" documents (or any other documents) which, magically, might appear in 2017.

One last point: As you will see after reading what appears below -- the 3603 documents scheduled for release in October 2017 will be digitized and available online!

----------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Lazar:
Thank you for your inquiry to the Special Access and FOIA Branch concerning the JFK 2017 release project. When Congress passed the JFK Assassination Records Collection Act in 1992 agencies throughout the Federal Government transferred assassination-related records to the National Archives which established the JFK Assassination Records Collection. The Collection consists of approximately 5 million pages of records. Approximately 88% of the records in the Collection are open in full. An addition 11% are released in part with sensitive portions removed. Approximately 1% of documents identified as assassination-related remain withheld in full. All documents withheld either in part or in full were authorized for withholding by the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB), an independent temporary agency that was in existence from 1994 to 1998.

According to the Act, all records previously withheld either in part or in full should be released on October 26, 2017 unless authorized for further withholding by the President of the United States. The 2017 date derives directly from the law that states:

Each assassination record shall be publicly disclosed in full, and available in the Collection no later than the date that is
25 years after the date of the enactment of this Act,
unless the President certifies, as required by this Act, that –

(i) continued postponement is made necessary by an identifiable harm to military defense, intelligence operations, law enforcement or conduct of foreign relations; and

(ii) the identifiable harm is of such gravity that it outweighs the public interest in disclosure.

The Act was signed by President Bush on October 26, 1992, thus the final release date is October 26, 2017.

In October of 2014, after conducting an initial pre-processing evaluation of the withheld materials, the National Archives constituted a dedicated team of four (4) archivists to process withheld JFK Assassination-related records in preparation for the 2017 release of additional materials. NARA has hired three (3) additional technicians to assist with digitizing the withheld materials. The Team is conducting archival processing on the documents to prepare the records for scanning. Agencies with equities in the withheld materials have been notified that previously withheld documents will be released in 2017 absent a successful appeal to the President. The staff is working with NARA’s Office of Innovation to determine the best way to present the documents through archives.gov when released in 2017. Once the digital release is completed the hard copy documents will be interfiled into the five million pages of the paper Collection.

With regards to your questions concerning the printout of 3603 records that we released in response to a Freedom of Information Act request from [FOIA requester name deleted], I welcome the opportunity to clarify some points.

First, the printout only concerns those records that were originally postponed in full by the Assassination Records Review Board; the total number of documents postponed in full or in part by the Board was 38,412, of which 34,813 documents were only postponed with portions redacted. This latter body of documents contain redactions that may be as extensive as whole paragraphs across several pages, but in most cases the redactions are minor. This is because the Board took very seriously Congresses intention that records related to the assassination were to be released to the fullest extent possible; indeed the standards of withholding adopted by the Act and as interpreted by the Board resulted in the release of much more information that had been possible up to that time under the FOIA or the Mandatory Declassification Review process under the various Executive Orders governing national security classification.

With regards to the Federal Register notice from 1996 you cite, the Act directed the Review Board to periodically publish lists of assassination documents that they had acted upon, with the decisions on each. There were numerous notices published; this is only one of many. The four documents you point to were not the only FBI documents left to be released, just the ones that the Board had acted on up to that specific notice. In many cases, the Board reversed or modified it's original decision based on additional information from and negotiation with agencies. In fact, each of the documents you site are available in the Collection; 124-10073-10299 is open in full, the remaining three are available with redactions. This explains why they do not appear on the list of withheld in full documents. Because of the nature of the Board's work, the notices only reflect decisions at a particular point in time and should not be considered the authoritative source for determining the status of documents. The best way is to look at the document as it currently is in the JFK Collection.

I hope that I have answered your questions. Thank you for your interest in the work of the Special Access and FOIA Branch.

Sincerely,

James R. Mathis

Supervisory Archivist

Special Access and FOIA Branch

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