Lacombe Training Camp location part duex

[Gayle Nix Jackson]

Hey Gayle

if you are still following this thread there is some info on "Lefty Clark" here:

lhttp://cuban-exile.com/doc_176-200/doc0193.html

Apparently, he invested a lot of money into the "San Souci" which was just outside Havana.

He'd have to know Mike McLaney

Thanks so much Chris!

One of the chapters in my book has to do with these things, though you guys know so much more than I so it will be trivial to you. I do appreciate the link though. I have visited that site before but didn't look up "Lefty" Allen or Clark or about whomever Castorr referred in his tape to Harold W.

Thanks again!

Gayle

[Chris Newton]

The last couple of days I had to take a step back and really evaluate what, if any, conclusions we can come to about the information we have. I've been looking at snippets of what's been written and initially I had planned to try to sort out what I could about each camp. This task seems daunting because every account I read that mentions Louisiana training camps and/or the Lacombe Raid have an entirely different story. No two are alike, the CIA has a an almost slapstick response, "Old hands at JMWAVE pretty sure JMMOVE only training base" (never mind that they never define JMMOVE's eight plus locations), the FBI got their man in W.J. McLaney, let him go and then said "fuhgediboudit". A plethora of conspiracy and anti-conspiracy writers have mentioned a camp or camps and the raid or raids in every combination possible.

One thing seems highly probable: There was a raid on a weapons cache.

Was there a training camp in Louisiana? My guess right now is that we're going to need a "hemming load" of circumstantial evidence to prove it.

WAR SINCE 1945 SEMINAR

The Bay of Pigs:

A Struggle for Freedom

Major Joe R. English

2 April 1984

Marine Corps Command and Staff College

Marine Corps Development and Education Command

Quantico, Virginia 22134

ABSTRACT

Author: ENGLISH, Joe R., Major, U.S. Marine Corps

Title: THE BAY OF PIGS: A STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM

Publisher: Marine Corps Command and Staff College

Date: 16 March, 1984

...“Second came the job of recruiting, equipping, training

and delivering a group of guerrilla fighters to undermine the

Cuban government. They would act as a nucleus for anti-

Castro citizens in Cuba to join, and later train and equip

the local populace as the uprising began. Toward this end,

the agency set up a recruiting network in Miami and soon had

enough Cuban volunteers to begin initial training. They

established training centers within the United States in

violation of their guidelines: in Florida, in Louisiana,

Texas, Virginia, and the Jungle Warfare Training Center in

Panama.”...

[Thomas Graves]

From a previous post -

FEBRUARY 5, 1967

TO: JIM GARRSION, DISTRICT ATTORNEY

FROM: JIM ALCOCK, ASSISTANT DISCTRICT ATTORNEY

RE: ANGEL VEGA

At 10:00 PM on January 31, 1967, CHARLES JONAU and I spoke to

ANGEL VEGA. This meeting, arranged by LAUREANO BATISTA,

Took place at the headquarters of the Christian Democratic Movement

located at 1732 N.W. 7th Street, Miami, Florida….

ANGEL VEGA is a slightly built Cuban male appearing to be in his

late twenties. He was one of the twenty Cubans who trained at a camp

in the New Orleans area. VEGA arrived at the camp sometime near

the middle or end of June, 1963. When he arrived, there were only

four or five others at the camp site. The house and grounds where they

stayed were completely run down, giving the appearance they had not

been inhabited for quite a while. Their first task was to refurbish the

house and its conveniences.

All personnel stayed in the house which consisted of three rooms, a

kitchen and two baths. In addition to this, there was a screened porch

on the front and back of the house. The grounds had a swimming pool

which was constantly fed by an underground spring. Also, there was a

stream or bayou running through the property. Within sight of the property

was another house. The camp was served by a dirt road which VEGA recalls

was never used by vehicular traffic during his entire stay at the camp.

ANGEL VEGA is positive he could find this camp site today, and would be

willing to come to New Orleans on a weekend for that purpose.

Training at the camp was principally limited to a physical fitness program. Daily exercises were taken along with swimming lessons. The men at the camp also practiced fording the stream that ran through the property. At no time did the men stray farther than about 200 yards from the house. No shooting whatsoever took place at the camp. They had two or three old Springfield rifles and M-1 carbine. These weapons were never fired. The M-1 carbine was used to show the men how to disassemble and assemble the weapon. During the course of many of the exercises, the men would carry small logs to simulate the weight of a weapon. Also, these logs were used in mock hand-to-hand combat training.

About two days before the cache of explosives was found at the other camp, ANGEL VEGA and two other camp members left for Miami with the Castro agent, FERNANDO FERNANDEZ. Shortly thereafter all Cubans at the camp returned to Miami. This was about August 1, 1963. Therefore, the camp was in operation for about five or six weeks.

While at the camp, ANGEL heard rifle shots and explosions from the direction of the other camp. However, at no time did VEGA and his fellow Cubans know of the existence of the other camp. This came to their knowledge only after the explosives were found.

As ANGEL recalls, the camp site was owned by two American males in their fifties or sixties. He feels they were in the insurance business. All contacts with them were made by RICARDO (DICKEY) DAVIS. They came to the camp occasionally to see if the men needed any food. DAVIS came to the camp about 8 to 10 times, mostly bringing food when he came. On one occasion, he brought his wife and he did some target shooting with a 22 caliber pistol.

ANGEL VEGA never heard the name of SERGIO ARCACHA SMITH or LINDBERGH mentioned and never saw any other Americans at the camp with the exception of the two previously mentioned. Angel remembers the following men to have been at the camp with him:

VICTOR PANEQUE 2ND in Command

FIDEL ZALDIVAR 1st in Command

……PERIU VICTORIA

MIGUEL CARBALLIDO

HENRY INFANTE

RAUL FANTONE

FERNANDO FERNANDEZ

SERGIO (NOT ARCACHA SMITH)

As you can see, ANGEL could only remember the first name of one man and only the last name of another. LAUREANO BATISTA, however, is still trying to locate a complete camp roster for us. He is also trying to locate the names if the Americans who owned the camp. If he is successful, he has promised to mail the information to me in New Orleans.

I feel that ANGEL VEGA was completely candid and cooperative throughout the interview. However, as far as the movement and its key personnel are concerned, we should expect some hedging.

JIM ALCOCK

..............----

This is the Slidell camp that was financed by "a group of very wealthy Texans and Louisianeans (Oil men) who had a lot of money and were willing to back any anti-Castro plan that would give them land were they could have a camp to train."

Most of the men were recruited by Victor "Diego" Panique who was then in New Jersey. They were to train for Somoza's "Nicaraguan Operation." Somoza had actually gone to Miami to do some personal recruiting.

Thanks, David!

Two comments and a question:

1 ) The camp in red sounds like the camp on Big 7 Road near Lacombe. The clincher for me is that the "Lacombe Bayou" (or stream) is only 160 feet from the house, according to Google Earth. (I have the free NGS topo map "overlays" on my GE.)

2 ) The camp in green must have been fairly close to if they could hear gun shots from it. If the camp in green was situated where the Dixie Ranch Hunting Club (and fire watch tower) are today, then, according to GE, they were 3.9 miles apart, as the crow flies. With 3.9 miles of flat but, densely forested, land in between.

Question: Would it have been possible to hear M-1 shots from that far away, over that kind of terrain, in humid conditions?

--Tommy

I've decided to "research" some of the names on the list that Angel provided to Alcock.

"Angel remembers the following men to have been at the [big 7 Road?] camp with him:

VICTOR PANEQUE 2ND in Command

FIDEL ZALDIVAR 1st in Command

……PERIU VICTORIA

MIGUEL CARBALLIDO

HENRY INFANTE

RAUL FANTONE

FERNANDO FERNANDEZ

SERGIO (NOT ARCACHA SMITH)

As you can see, ANGEL could only remember the first name of one man and only the last name of another. LAUREANO BATISTA, however, is still trying to locate a complete camp roster for us. He is also trying to locate the names if the Americans who owned the camp. If he is successful, he has promised to mail the information to me in New Orleans."

VICTOR PANEQUE (1st in Command) -- VICTOR MANUEL PANEQUE Y BATISTA (aka "Commandante Diego)" was born Sept. 22, 1918, and is well known and thoroughly documented. What's interesting is that, according to A.J. Weberman in Nodule 14, after Paneque defected to the U.S. in 1960, the manager of the Pepsi-Cola Company in Cuba, some students at the University of Havana, and Pedromo Sanjenis all claimed that Paneque was a double agent, secretly working for Castro.

FIDEL ZALDIVAR (2nd in Command) -- Is probably FIDEL ALBERTO ZALDIVAR [FARINAS], born Nov. 21, 1936, and living in N. Miami Beach as of May, 2015. He registered to vote in 1972. FIDEL ALBERTO ZALDIVAR FARINAS is referenced in this 1964 FBI document, along with Laureano Batista Falla, Angel Vega, and Enrique Infante (q.v.): https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=124198&search=%22zaldivar_farinas%22#relPageId=8&tab=page , http://flvoters.com/by_number/1090/57275_fidel_alberto_zaldivar.html

PERIU VICTORIA (fnu) -- Appears to have been OSCAR SERGIO PERIU VICTORIA, born 9/09/23. He was incarcerated in a prison in Oriente province in 1966 and was still there as of 1970; he's # 95 in this list of political prisoners: http://www.cidh.org/countryrep/Cuba70sp/cap.1b.htm. In 2012 he was living in Miami, having registered to vote there in 1996: http://flvoters.com/by_number/1096/85065_oscar_sergio_periu.html

NOTE: The weirdo website URL won't let me post a live "link" to it, so just google (in quotation marks) "oscar sergio periu." He's the second one down on the google "hit list." (Looks like his son, now 65, is the first one on the "hit list." Anyone want to contact him to ask about his old man? Maybe his father is still alive -- I can't find any indication that he has passed away.)

MIGUEL CARBALLIDO -- Might be MIGUEL REGELIO CARBALLIDO, Sr., born Sept. 29, 1942, and living in Hialeah Gardens, Miami-Dade County., Florida, as recently as May, 2012. He registered to vote in 1996.

http://flvoters.com/by_number/1095/86267_miguel_rogelio_carballido.html

HENRY INFANTE -- Is the same as ENRIQUE INFANTE (q.v. in above FBI doc.). In another FBI document, his name is given as HENRY INFANTE LEDA. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?

Note: There is a "Henry Infante" in Miami who has a security company and claims to be a martial artist. Maybe that's his son?

RAUL FANTONE -- I can't find anything at all on this guy, which is very interesting in and of itself. The Mary Ferrell website has nothing for the name "Fantone," period.

This is what A. J. Weberman has to say about Victor Paneque:

"VICTOR PANEQUE AND ORLANDO BOSCH -- Victor Manuel Paneque y Batista (201-286382) assumed military leadership of MRR in Miami and organized a infiltration team to re-enter Cuba to continue MIRR operations. Victor Paneque was born September 22, 1918 in Holguin, Oriente Province, Cuba. His formal education was short. From 1934 until 1942 he worked as a farmhand together with his father. In 1942 he had four months of military training and then served two years as an infantry private at the Military Base, Managua, and Province of Havana, Cuba. Released from military service in 1944 he found employment as a waiter and bartender in various barrooms in Holguyin. He worked in this field until October 13, 1956, when he joined the 26th of July Movement and was appointed chief of all clandestine activity against the Batista regime for the Northern Coast of Oriente Province. Victor Paneque was arrested by the police of Bayamo, Oriente Province, sentenced to one year in prison by the Tribunal of Santiago De Cuba for conspiracy against the Batista regime. He served his sentence and was released on November 22, 1957. On November 27, 1957 he was appointed by the Castro organization Chief of Political Action, Sabotage and Violent Assaults, for Las Villas Province. He organized a "Front" on the North Coast of Las Villas which was eventually replaced by columns headed by Ché Guevara and Camillo Cienfuegos. In October 1958 Victor Paneque was chief of action for the Province of Pinar del Rio, Havana, and Matanzas and the area east of Havana. This operation took place between November 1959 and December 1959. From January 1, 1959, to January 5, 1959, the headquarters of Victor Paneque were located at the Sports Palace of Havana and when Fidel Castro entered the city, Victor Paneque turned over full control to his leader. On January 5, 1959, Victor Paneque was appointed Chief of the Revolutionary Army 5th Military District of Havana. He held this post for 22 days. In March 1959 he was made Chief of Public Order in the General Staff of the Rebel Army. In April 1959 Fidel Castro made him Chief of the Rural Police of Cuba. He was given full authority to set up and organize military schools for training a new rural police force. He established a school to train this force. None of the instructors there had been associated with the Communist Party of Cuba. Toward the end of October 1959 Castro was throughly disillusioned with the anti-Communist political attitude of the training school. He dissolved it and assigned its staff teaching jobs at the Peasant Militia schools. This decision was preceded by numerous violent arguments between Victor Paneque and Fidel Castro and convinced Victor Paneque that Fidel Castro was a Communist. On November 9, 1959, Victor Paneque was removed from his post as Chief of Public Order and Chief of Rural Police. He was appointed administrator general of a large state-owned truck company. In spite of this prestigious position Victor Paneque escaped Cuba by small boat in 1960 and was picked up by an American tanker after drifting for 14 hours. He came to the United States on September 3, 1960. [in 1967] The CIA reported [ https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=55193&search=sanjenis_paneque#relPageId=24&tab=page ] : Paneque y Batista, Victor Manuel, 201-286382 -- According to Carlos Quiroga, Victor Paneque was in charge of the military training camp conducted for Cubans from Miami in August 1963 at Lacombe, Louisiana. Quiroga added that before the coup, Paneque had been in charge of all underground work in Havana. Traces have shown tht Paneque, AKA Commandante Diego, DPOB September 22, 1918 Holguin, Oriente Province, Cuba was the chief of rural police under Castro, was a major in the army and also served as G-3 of the Cuban Army (chief of Public Order). Various reports indicate that: (1) When Paneque arrived in the U.S. on or about September 7, 1960, he first stayed in the home of Dr. Orlando Bosch, suspected Castro agent and possible DGI member in Miami. (2) He was associated with Carlos Rodriguez Castro, reported by an FBI source as a possible plant in anti-Castro organizations in U.S. (3) Before he left Cuba, Paneque spent two hours with Raoul Castro. (4) A Major [Pedromo] Sanjenis, former G-2 Chief who, in 1960, was serving 10 years on the Isle of Pines, stated that Victor Paneque tried to give the impression that he was against the Castro Government but in reality was a Cuban Government agent. [CIA report from Joaquin Pedromo Sanjenis - dated September 21, 1960] (5) That the general manager of the Pepsi Cola company said that Paneque had gone to Miami but was a member of G-2. According to a report dated October 6, 1960, prepared by another office of this agency members of the Student Group at the University of Havana reported the presence in Miami of two Castro 'plants' said to be DGI agents. One of these was Victor Paneque. The information in this report came from a United States national with business contacts in the Latin American areas. UFGA-17153, August 10, 1964, discounted some of the foregoing and said that there had been reports that Victor Paneque had been on Castro's list of officers to be eliminated and that he had been in touch with anti-Castro groups in the Escambray before he fled Cuba. Moreover, he was given a polygraph examination on August 4, 1964, with positive results. [4 or 5 lines redacted in my copy from MFF; see Weberman's words below] because there was no immediate operational use for him.

["The Station requested a POA and commo clearance as soon as possible. The POA was granted on November 13, 1964. Victor Paneque was granted a Provisional Operational Approval on November 14, 1964, for use by JMATE, which was canceled October 13, 1965. UFGA-23382, October 5, 1965, reported that Victor Paneque was to be terminated as of October 31, 1965,..." -- Where did Weberman find these words?] "

Weberman continues, now quoting from a different document or documents:

[To: Ass. C. Of Staff Dept. Army Atten: Interagency Source Register. Subject: Paneque SD-10237] In 1967 the CIA reported "Victor Manuel (Paneque) Batista 201-282382 Station has not had contact with Subject since his termination." [CIA 12.30.67 100-300-17 00005] The CIA received a report on March 31, 1962, which indicated that Victor Paneque was the organizer of a hunger strike group and was the first speaker at a rally to urge the United States to give arms to exiled Cubans. The CIA reported: "Victor Paneque was the first speaker. He advised the audience that the "Hunger Strike to Death" took place to show JFK that the Cubans are willing to die in exile if their right to defend Cuba from Communism is negated. The motto of the strike is 'Hunger or War.' The strike was primarily initiated to ask for arms for the Cubans in exile. He also stated that the compatriots in Cuba are asking in despair what the Consejo is doing to solve the Cuban problem. In answer to that question Paneque said the Consejo has done nothing and means nothing in the USA and Cuba. The Consejo should step aside and allow action people to take over the direction of the Cubans in exile." Luis Conte Aguerro also spoke at this rally. [CIA 201-286382] MRR

Edited August 25, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

In trying to separate the wheat from the chaff in this story of the Louisiana training facility we've got to categorize the stories that witnesses, investigators and researchers tell.

There is a group of pre-Bay-of-Pigs Cubans who were trained with CIA sponsorship. This training was specifically for the underwater demolition teams led by Robertson and Lynch and apparently infiltration teams that went in country prior to the landings.

This video (which I recommend viewing in it's entirety) is a first person account of this specific UDT training:

After the Bay-of-Pigs, we see the rise of many anti-Castro groups of varying degrees of militancy and even more varied allegiances. Of these groups, there were many that staged assaults on Cuba that were insurgent in nature. If any trained at a camp north of Lake Pontchartrain, judging by the evidence we have now, it is going to be a very small group.

I think I've found one instance, in the existing documentation, where there is a slip during an unguarded moment, when a known militant insurgent that did not participate in the landings, stated they were trained by the CIA in a camp near New Orleans. I think this is significant but I'm going to hold off exposing it until I can verify and understand the story and it's context fully.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Chris Newton

[Chris Newton]

Hey Tommy,

According to Angel, Paneque was the "Jefe" of the "Big 7" Camp. In one FBI report, he is recorded as leaving Miami for New Orleans around the 14th of July. I think that's four days before the company that will fund this camp is incorporated. The strange thing is that there doesn't seem to be any logging operations at all near the "Big 7" Camp whereas there would seem to be evidence of that exact activity near Dixie Ranch, even today. How would you fit these things together?

Edited August 25, 2015 by Chris Newton

[Larry Hancock]

Chris, I doubt that its the same person but the Belle Chasse camp was also used as a cover to take some candidates from the Brigade and run them though special training,

they were then sent back into a special covert teams which may have been intended to support the Op 40 group and Morales intelligence trainees if the landing had succeeded. Victor Hernandez was one of

those individuals. Apparently some individuals from that pool were actually inserted into Cuba during the very unstructured operations that followed in the interim between the

failure in the landings and the start up of the Mongoose project.

[Thomas Graves]

Hey Tommy,

According to Angel, Paneque was the "Jefe" of the "Big 7" Camp. In one FBI report, he is recorded as leaving Miami for New Orleans around the 14th of July. I think that's four days before the company that will fund this camp is incorporated. The strange thing is that there doesn't seem to be any logging operations at all near the "Big 7" Camp whereas there would seem to be evidence of that exact activity near Dixie Ranch, even today. How would you fit these things together?

Chris,

I can't remember reading anything about their actually doing any lumber work at the camp (except the possible remodeling of the rundown house on Big 7 Road), just that the anti-Castro Cubans from Miami were sorely disappointed "when they realized they weren't going to get any military training there." Or so Ricardo Davis said. Sounds like an impromptu excuse for sending them home when Bill McLaney's cottage was busted in town. What's interesting to me is that the owner's nephew visited the place (probably on Big 7 Road), heard guns being fired on the property, and realized that they had been duped into thinking they were providing housing to homeless Cuban exiles.

Wasn't it Richard Davis who said that ten exiles had arrived from Miami on Wednesday night, July 24, 1963, in two cars, and that both cars broke down when they arrived in New Orleans and that that was why they had to ask the local Catholic Cuban Refugee Center for financial help in putting the Cubans up for four or five nights in a motel?

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/C%20Disk/Camps%20Cuban%20New%20Orleans/Item%2002.pdf

I'm just wondering -- What are the chances that both cars broke down at the same time? And what happened to those cars? Was one of them a Rambler Station Wagon?

And doesn't the "two broke down cars" story contradict the story that the exiles left because they were disappointed?

FWIW, the motel that they stayed at, the Monterrey Motel at 4500 Gentilly Highway (now called Gentilly Boulevard which is the same thing as Hwy. 90 / Chef Menteur Highway), is on the south side of Lake P. and about 35 driving miles from the "Big 7 Road" Camp.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Orleans-Louisiana-The-Monterey-Motel-1955-/400969728343?hash=item5d5ba88157

https://www.google.com/maps/place/4500+Gentilly+Blvd,+New+Orleans,+LA+70126/@30.0291004,-90.02885

41,11z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x8620a8f1589b9091:0xbf8e0d097f976f6a

--Tommy

Edited September 6, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

Chris, I doubt that its the same person but the Belle Chasse camp was also used as a cover to take some candidates from the Brigade and run them though special training,

they were then sent back into a special covert teams which may have been intended to support the Op 40 group and Morales intelligence trainees if the landing had succeeded. Victor Hernandez was one of those individuals. Apparently some individuals from that pool were actually inserted into Cuba during the very unstructured operations that followed in the interim between the failure in the landings and the start up of the Mongoose project.

Larry, yes that's my understanding too. I do believe it was a "cover" for other things as well. The CIA IG report states it was used for the UDT Team and Radio Operator Training but listening to the accounts of BoP vets that some "Radio Operators" went straight from Belle Chase to marine ops out of Marathon put a big question mark on that. Several BoP veterans, that all just happen to be in the "Infiltration" teams, recount being sent to Belle Chase from Useppa (instead of going to Guatemala) and then going straight to Nicaragua.

My point to adding this is information is that by using Belle Chase as an somewhat overt training area, the CIA can run covert training with that cover. An anti-Castro Cuban that admits to training in Lousianna pre-BoP is talking "Belle Chase" or another option. Post-BoP or non-2506 Louisiana training is what I'm hunting for.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Chris Newton

[Chris Newton]

Tommie,

I don't think any of the Cubans were actually ever considered for Lumberjacking. The cover story would be more palapable if the location they were in was actually a logging area as opposed to simply a lightly wooded area a mile from Lacombe.

If you could work out the vehicles that would be a huge plus. There's all the rented cars - John Koch Gene's rental for instance. Richard Davis' car in which he drove his date to Dixie Ranch in the middle of the night. The girlfriend stated he got a bus to pick up the cubans - Rich D. told Weinberg it was a truck.

Carlos Bringer said he paid for Cubans bus tickets and some spending money - Richard Davis said he paid but they didn't want to leave so he made up a story that the invasion was on and they had to get out of there.

So many stories! They can't keep them straight - I wonder why. PS I don't believe the nephew story either - it's a load of crock.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Chris Newton

[Thomas Graves]

Tommie,

I don't think any of the Cubans were actually ever considered for Lumberjacking. The cover story would be more palapable if the location they were in was actually a logging area as opposed to simply a lightly wooded area a mile from Lacombe.

If you could work out the vehicles that would be a huge plus. There's all the rented cars - John Koch Gene's rental for instance. Richard Davis' car in which he drove his date to Dixie Ranch in the middle of the night. The girlfriend stated he got a bus to pick up the cubans - Rich D. told Weinberg it was a truck.

Carlos Bringer said he paid for Cubans bus tickets and some spending money - Richard Davis said he paid but they didn't want to leave so he made up a story that the invasion was on and they had to get out of there.

So many stories! They can't keep them straight - I wonder why. PS I don't believe the nephew story either - it's a load of crock.

Chris,

I realize that the so-called Guatemalan Lumber and Mineral Company was the financial conduit and the "cover" for the camp, but it is interesting that the nephew of one of the owners intimated that they had been led to believe that the money was going to be used to build some houses for some homeless Cuban refugees.

Question: Why didn't he say it was to train them to be lumberjacks?

The answer (IMHO) : Because the "Big 7 Road" Camp obviously wasn't being used as a "timber yard," but its rundown house was being rebuilt / remodeled. The nephew knew that the "timber camp" cover for "Big 7" was physically implausible, and that the "homes for refugees" was a little less so. Also, the "timber yard" story would have entailed revealing the company's plans to send the anti-Castro Cuban "lumberjacks" to Guatemala or some other South American country after they had received "training."

--Tommy

Edited August 25, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Tommie,

I don't think any of the Cubans were actually ever considered for Lumberjacking. The cover story would be more palapable if the location they were in was actually a logging area as opposed to simply a lightly wooded area a mile from Lacombe.

If you could work out the vehicles that would be a huge plus. There's all the rented cars - John Koch Gene's rental for instance. Richard Davis' car in which he drove his date to Dixie Ranch in the middle of the night. The girlfriend stated he got a bus to pick up the cubans - Rich D. told Weinberg it was a truck.

Carlos Bringer said he paid for Cubans bus tickets and some spending money - Richard Davis said he paid but they didn't want to leave so he made up a story that the invasion was on and they had to get out of there.

So many stories! They can't keep them straight - I wonder why. PS I don't believe the nephew story either - it's a load of crock.

Chris,

I realize that the so-called Guatemalan Lumber and Mineral Company was the financial conduit and the "cover" for the camp, but it is interesting that the nephew of one of the owners intimated that they had been led to believe that the money was going to be used to build some houses for some homeless Cuban refugees.

Question: Why didn't he say the camp training Cuban exiles to be lumberjacks?

Answer (IMHO) : Because from all appearances the "Big 7 Road" Camp wasn't being used as a "timber yard," but its rundown house was being (or had recently been) rebuilt / remodeled, ergo the "homes for refugees" story. The nephew knew that the "timber camp" cover for "Big 7" was physically implausible, and went with the "homes for refugees" story because it was a little less implausible. Also, the "timber yard" story would have entailed revealing the company's plans to send the anti-Castro Cuban "lumberjacks" to Guatemala or some other South American country after they had received some "training."

Another possible reason the nephew shied away from the "timber yard" story is that they were worried about having to pay insurance for the "lumber trainees" or even a fine for not having done so -- a legitimate concern even though the exiles were not being trained to be lumbermen.

--Tommy

edited and bumped

Edited August 25, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

Thanks a lot Tommie!

It’s hard to notice when you first look at the little map I linked to above, but there are very few east/west routes north of State Hwy. 190. Interstate 12 won’t begin to open until 1967 and won’t be finished until well into the 70’s. When you look at most mapping software like GoogleEarth you can’t normally look back farther than the late 80’s. In 1963 most of what we see on a modern map doesn’t exist, sprawl-wise. The Bayou is a very dense and remote environment.

To help, I found a 1934 USGS Map of Slidell, La.. I know 1934 is 30 years too rural but I couldn’t find a 60’s version on short notice.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/topo/louisiana/txu-pclmaps-topo-la-slidell-1934.jpg

Note: to the NNE of Lacombe you’ll see Big Branch Bayou snaking north.

In 1968 Harold Weisberg drove around this area trying to dig up some leads. He came up with several good ones, one really remarkable taped interview and a lead he wrote about but I can’t find any evidence he followed up on. Both those leads and something I noticed when I examined the site lead me to believe it’s the best candidate location.

The interview is with a young lady that had a very interesting “date” with Richard Davis and nearer to the end of his account the last clue comes from the guy that fixes his car.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/T%20Disk/Turner%20Dione%20Miscellaneous%20Notes/Item%2003.pdf

Mr Weisberg was astonished to hear Chelise Ann describe Richard Davis to a “T”.

There’s a long journey to a camp.

She describes a security team without knowing what it is.

She describes what are probably assault rifles carried by some people, rifles by others.

She describes people who despite being shirtless have plenty of ammo. (I’m not trolling you, I swear)

She even confirms what we know from plenty of other sources about the night before the Raid.

That’s incredibly lucky and not something you can “just make up” so I’m also linking the transcript of her recorded statement.

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/D%20Disk/Davis%20Ricardo/Item%2007.pdf

Now on to the the mechanic…

Weisberg details his conversation with the mechanic while the guy is fixing his battery. The mechanic describes another camp - not Camp A or Camp B. This will be the future Camp C (I'm clueless on this one).

Astonishingly, (and this is the clue I’m suggesting Weisberg did not follow up on -that I can tell), he suggests that there was another camp he knew of at Dixie Ranch. There is no reason why this can't be the same camp the girl describes above. I think it is Camp B.

Go back to that 1934 map and look at Dixie Ranch just to the east of the northern end of Big Branch Bayou. Would a local say that’s in Big Branch? I think so.

One other thing that jumped out at me about Dixie Ranch. I had a good friend in Germany that passed away a few years ago but he had been a sniper in the German Army (NATO era). We used to debate JFK conspiracy theories - or more accurately I probably asked him stupid questions. We were having a chat about the need for any shooter to “hit the range” and he commented that if he was assigned an assassination as an active shooter in an operation like Dallas -he would have liked a range tower to practice fire from.

Dixie Ranch has a tall tower today. it lies at the end/beginning of Firetower Rd. and adjacent to a long field. Until I can find a 60's photo I can't say for certain it's there in 1963.

- Chris

edit grammar and corrected

Chris,

I finally got around to reading the Weisberg material at the links you posted. Fascinating stuff, indeed.

Fifteen minutes of dirt road / roads? Hmm. Really?

About using the lookout tower for sniper practice, as regards Dallas it would have been nice to have a curving, downhill street like Elm below the tower to make the kill zone more comparable to Dealey Plaza.

They were supposedly originally training at that camp for another attempted hit on Castro. Does anyone know the details of that operation? Shoot Fidel from a tall building while he's travelling in a car, etc?

--Tommy

Edited August 25, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

The last couple of days I had to take a step back and really evaluate what, if any, conclusions we can come to about the information we have. I've been looking at snippets of what's been written and initially I had planned to try to sort out what I could about each camp. This task seems daunting because every account I read that mentions Louisiana training camps and/or the Lacombe Raid have an entirely different story. No two are alike, the CIA has a an almost slapstick response, "Old hands at JMWAVE pretty sure JMMOVE only training base" (never mind that they never define JMMOVE's eight plus locations), the FBI got their man in W.J. McLaney, let him go and then said "fuhgediboudit". A plethora of conspiracy and anti-conspiracy writers have mentioned a camp or camps and the raid or raids in every combination possible.

One thing seems highly probable: There was a raid on a weapons cache.

Was there a training camp in Louisiana? My guess right now is that we're going to need a "hemming load" of circumstantial evidence to prove it.

WAR SINCE 1945 SEMINAR

The Bay of Pigs:

A Struggle for Freedom

Major Joe R. English

2 April 1984

Marine Corps Command and Staff College

Marine Corps Development and Education Command

Quantico, Virginia 22134

ABSTRACT

Author: ENGLISH, Joe R., Major, U.S. Marine Corps

Title: THE BAY OF PIGS: A STRUGGLE FOR FREEDOM

Publisher: Marine Corps Command and Staff College

Date: 16 March, 1984

...“Second came the job of recruiting, equipping, training

and delivering a group of guerrilla fighters to undermine the

Cuban government. They would act as a nucleus for anti-

Castro citizens in Cuba to join, and later train and equip

the local populace as the uprising began. Toward this end,

the agency set up a recruiting network in Miami and soon had

enough Cuban volunteers to begin initial training. They

established training centers within the United States in

violation of their guidelines: in Florida, in Louisiana,

Texas, Virginia, and the Jungle Warfare Training Center in

Panama.”...

Chris,

I'm thinking whoever "snitched them out" did so because he wanted them to turn violently, as in "with extreme prejudice," against JFK.

Sanjenis?

Morales?

Banister?

Quiroga?

Marcello?

Some doctor in Miami?

--Tommy

Edited August 25, 2015 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

Tommie

If you go back to the old USGS map I posted a link to, you will see that you need to go east almost to Slidell before you can make a north west turn on an unimproved dirt road to get to Dixie Ranch. I believe the woman when she says "I didn't know there were that many little dirt roads in Lacombe" and "towards Slidell from Lacombe" also matches that route. Also her description of the house does not sound like "Big 7" - "real long". I think she is describing Dixie Ranch not "Big 7".

As far as who "snitched" them out... are you asking about the initial snitch? An FBI informant in Miami, MM-T1, who I think is likely a Castro agent.

[Thomas Graves]

Tommie

If you go back to the old USGS map I posted a link to, you will see that you need to go east almost to Slidell before you can make a north west turn on an unimproved dirt road to get to Dixie Ranch. I believe the woman when she says "I didn't know there were that many little dirt roads in Lacombe" and "towards Slidell from Lacombe" also matches that route. Also her description of the house does not sound like "Big 7" - "real long". I think she is describing Dixie Ranch not "Big 7".

As far as who "snitched" them out... are you asking about the initial snitch? An FBI informant in Miami, MM-T1, who I think is likely a Castro agent.

Chris,

You mean there was more than one?

"Snitch," I mean.

OMG

What a tangled web.

More tangled than them bayous, even !

Who where the other "snitches"?

--Tommy

PS Hemming suspected that MM-T1 was INTERPEN member Justin Joseph "Steve" Wilson.

What do you think?

Edited August 26, 2015 by Thomas Graves