Did Gloria Calvery almost catch up to Marion Baker?

[Thomas Graves]

A few corrections

1/ These images are NOT perfectly aligned, take another look

2/ Frame 1 is the one with the cars, it was taken from a further distance.

3/ Lovelady is not leaning forward, he is stepping down.

Barto,

Who said they were perfectly aligned? (I did. My bad.)

Is it possible to align the two frames any better than Chris has done?

Are the people on the steps sufficiently well-aligned in the two frames for us to determine whether or not they moved their hands, heads, or bodies during the intervening five or so seconds?

Why was Lovelady, as you say, "stepping down" right then? So he could have a worse view of what was happening down the street? Because he wanted to go help JFK? Because he was hungry and he wanted to finish eating his lunch over to his right at the side of the steps or go talk with someone over there?

If Lovelady was stepping down, where did he go within the next few seconds?

For timing-correlation purposes, do you not agree that the "Doorman" in Altgens 6 was Lovelady? And that Altgens 6 was taken a second or two after JFK was hit in the throat?

Thanks,

-- Tommy

Bumped For Barto

I've decided to add a little bonus here:

Edited September 11, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

A few corrections

1/ These images are NOT perfectly aligned, take another look

2/ Frame 1 is the one with the cars, it was taken from a further distance.

3/ Lovelady is not leaning forward, he is stepping down.

Barto,

Who said they were perfectly aligned? (I did. My bad.)

Aren't the people on the steps sufficiently well-aligned in the two frames for us to be able to determine whether or not they move their hands, heads, or bodies during the intervening five or-so seconds?

If Lovelady really was "stepping down" during the second frame (rather than just holding onto the handrail and leaning out towards the camera), why do you think he was doing that? Did he want to go down a couple of steps so he could have a worse view of what was happening down the street? Did he want to go help JFK? Or was he just still hungry wanted to finish eating his lunch, or maybe go talk with someone over there at his original, next-to-the-wall position?

If Lovelady really was stepping down, where was he going? To some prearranged location?

(For timing-correlation purposes, do you not agree that the "Doorman" in Altgens 6 was Lovelady? And that Altgens 6 was taken a second or two after JFK was hit in the throat?)

Thanks,

-- Tommy

Bumped For Barto

I've decided to add a little bonus here:

Edited this post and bumped this thread just for the heck of it.

Edited October 28, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

It does look quite a bit like Lovelady but I'm not completely sold yet. Wouldn't you say it also looks like both men are following officer Smith to see what he's up to? They take the exact same route as him all the while keeping a discreet distance.

If what Smith said is correct, that a screaming woman told him to go check the bushes and he was outside the TSBD at the time, surely someone on the steps must have noticed?

Of course, stalking a cop who's been told to check the knoll out isn't important, all we need to know is did you see the one head into the building? Oh yes sir, sure did sir.

Walking or stalking but no longer running.

Great clip, Clive.

"Running Woman" Marion Baker is barely visible, running "off stage, right" in the upper right hand corner.

Is this clip a continuation of Couch or Darnell, or both?

What we must ponder: Is Gloria Calvery on the "corner of the park," ready to tell these two guys (IMHO Shelley and Lovelady) what she saw, or is Running Woman "Gloria Calvery," either "real deal," or, more likely, only believed to be so by Shelley and / or Lovelady?

--Tommy

PS These two guys are walking in the same direction, and are doing so in such a "synchronized" manner and in such close proximity to each other, IMHO, that we can say that they are very likely walking "together." It's just that one of them (probably Supervisor of the Miscellaneous Department -- William H. Shelley) has "taken charge," so to speak, and is "leading the way." Edit: I now believe that "Shelley" has started crossing over toward the "island," and that "Lovelady" is continuing on towards the Railway Yard and that he has just started running in that direction.

If any two guys were walking to any "same place" together from the steps of the TSBD, would anyone expect them to be walking side-by-side at this point? Holding hands?

Edit: "Holding hands"??? Well, I guess that's still a valid question. LOL

Just kidding.

That sure looks like "Shelley" and "Lovelady" to me, especially thin, suit-wearing "Shelley." The only problem I have here is "Lovelady's" (apparently) light-colored shirt.

Edit: That "problem" immediately "evaporated away" when Bart Kamp, recently and on another thread, posted enlarged and (apparently) contrast-adjusted frames from Couch which show "Lovelady" with a bald spot on the top-rear of his head and wearing a distinctive, long-sleeved, PLAID SHIRT as he walks down Elm Street Extension about 20 seconds after the assassination.

Notice "Lovelady's" bounding, rising head in his very first first step. Compare the motion of his head to the heads of people around him. Their heads don't jump or rise like that, indicating that his head really did rise because he's starting to run in order to catch up with "Shelley." get to the Railway Yard (or to the side / rear entrance to the TSBD?) as quickly as possible.

edited and bumped

-- Tommy

Edited October 28, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Next: Thomas sees Badge Man!

[Thomas Graves]

Next: Thomas sees Badge Man!

I'm bumping "Ballistics Bob's" great post so that more people will realize what a great researcher he is on non ballistics-related and non duh-hip-bone's-connected-to-duh-thigh-bone type subjects, especially when he has no rational "come back" answers and, well .... just doesn't know what else to say.

Do you still think chunky Gloria Calvery was the lithe "Running Woman," Bob?

After I helped you finally see a possible Gloria Calvery standing behind another woman in Altgens 6, did you ever get your eyes checked?

BTW, I was trying to help you, Bob, when I suggested that "Running Woman" might have run all the way down to the corner of Elm and Houston, and that Marion Baker might have run down there, too, to ask her what she'd seen. But I guess that didn't fit in with your "theory," did it.

-- Tommy

Edited October 29, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

You are just plain weird.

[Thomas Graves]

You are just plain weird.

Howdy Bob!

Plain.

Weird.

Sounds like a contradiction, Bob.

BTW, Do you actually consider yourself "normal"? You know, your not bein' able to sleep at night and all, and sending a member who regularly disagrees with you a PM at some ungodly hour in the morning which says, "You are a disinfo agent and I'm going to out you," or words to that effect?

Talk about weird.

(lol)

By the way, did you ever find Gloria Calvery in the photos or films, Bob? I mean, isn't what this thread / your thread is supposed to be about?

-- Tommy

Edited October 29, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

You are just plain weird.

Howdy Bob!

Plain.

Weird.

BTW, Do you actually consider yourself "normal"? You know, your not bein' able to sleep at night and all, and sending a member (me) who regularly disagrees with you a PM at some ungodly hour in the morning which says, "You are a disinfo agent and I'm going to out you," or words to that effect?

Talk about weird.

(lol)

By the way, did you ever find Gloria Calvery in the photos or films, Bob? I mean, isn't what this thread / your thread is supposed to be about?

-- Tommy

Bumped because I guess Bob missed it.

PS I think it's interesting that Shelley was the best man at Calvery's wedding, and I think it's plausible that Shelley didn't speak with her right after the assassination, but had her advance promise to "cover" for any suspicious movements he may have made by letting him say in his (or sidekick Lovelady's?) various reports they he (or they) had run into her on the "island" a few seconds after the assassination, or, if you prefer, three minutes after it, on the steps, or someplace.

http://www.prayer-man.com/tsbd/bill-shelley/

Edited October 31, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Bill Miller]

On 8/27/2015 at 0:42 AM, Thomas Graves said:

Well, Robert.

How were my questions totally irrelevant and misleading? Misleading?

The apparently dark-complected woman (face in shade?) identified by many / most researchers as Gloria Jean Calvery (standing with those two other women down by the Stemmons Freeway sign on Elm Street) was caught on film a few seconds after the assassination walking calmly with those two other women up the sidewalk on Elm Srteet in the general direction of the TSBD. So if she was walking, I think it's safe to say she wasn't running. And she's approaching the TSBD from a completely different direction than the woman running in Couch / Darnell. Also, as you well know, the clothes this Gloria Jean Calvery (the apparently dark complected woman) was wearing were different from the clothes the running woman was wearing. So that's why the running woman couldn't be Gloria Jean Calvery, IMHFO.

I know from previous posts that you doubt that the apparently dark-complected woman was Gloria Jean Calvery. Have you changed your mind?

Or conversely, do you think the running woman in Couch / Darnell was Calvery and that Calvery simply wasn't watching the motorcade where she said she was watching it, and with whom she said she was watching it?

What's your current position on all this if you don't mind my asking.

--Tommy

PS I do think the apparently dark-complected woman down by the Stemmons sign could have walked up the Elm Street sidewalk to the TSBD in 30-40 seconds, and encountered Joe Molina there roughly in the time frame he mentioned. What do you think, Robert?

Where do you think the real Gloria Jean Calvery was standing during the motorcade? If you don't think the apparently dark-complected woman was Calvery, who do you think the apparently dark-complected woman was?

An unknown or unaccounted-for friend or co-worker of Carol Reed and Karan Hicks?

found this thread finally and will be reading it mostly to see how this matter was investigated. Here is Gloria Calvery by the way before I read on.

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Robin Unger]

The woman marked ( c ) in this Zapruder frame has a similar  appearance to the running woman seen in Darnell.

Mary Woodward woman marked ( E )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eim4Pu57FZc&spfreload=5

Edited December 19, 2016 by Robin Unger

[Bill Miller]

On 8/27/2015 at 0:42 AM, Thomas Graves said:

PS I do think the apparently dark-complected woman down by the Stemmons sign could have walked up the Elm Street sidewalk to the TSBD in 30-40 seconds, and encountered Joe Molina there roughly in the time frame he mentioned. What do you think, Robert?

The dark completed woman looks Hispanic to me and certainly not like the very light complected Calvery. So the question is if Calvery was mislabeled in the Zapruder images, then who else was mis-indentified? The only woman dressed like the running lady is has a scarf on her head - wearing a light top - a dark skirt - and no high heels .... possibly flats.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

On 8/27/2015 at 4:35 PM, Chris Davidson said:

One of the few unlabeled in this, is the person I suspect matches Calvery in the Darnell/Baker frame.

I do not know who created this.

chris

Much is being said about how these women stated they all stood together as if in sequence, but I have not seen it that way at all. I think they said they went out to Elm street and watched the parade together. In fact there are at least four witnesses who said they watched the parade together. If to be taken literally, then one of the sheep has strayed from the flock and was possibly Calvery.

If one can remove the misstated Jibber-Jabber that has been stated as fact, then possibly a process of elimination can be conducted to find Calvery. For instance:  On page one - Purdomme said, " On the contrary, we have Lovelady's and Shelley's testimony telling us she remained on the steps for some time before entering the building. In other words, she could have RUN up the Elm St. sidewalk, almost on Baker's heels as seen in Darnell/Couch, and stayed on the steps to talk for a minute or two, thus making the meeting with Molina occur long after."

Actually Lovelady and Shelly said after they spoke with Calvery that they went across the street to the divider and then on to the RR Yard for a few minutes. Calvery said she ran back to the TSBD and saw a policeman running towards the TSBD and followed close behind him and into the building. I read this info on Calvery's obituary link. Many obituarys are written by someone close to the deceased like a family member. Here is what it said, "Immediately following the assassination she ran back to the TSBD, following about 10-15 feet behind the sprinting DPD Officer, Marrion Baker, and they went up the front steps and into the building, as was partially captured on the Cook-Darnell Film and recounted in eyewitness testimony." In Calvery's statement ... she had said she then went inside the TSBD and stayed in her office a short while before returning to the front entrance of the building for several minutes before returning back to her office again. Here statement is attached here along with three other witnesses.

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Robin Unger]

I have removed the old Cabluck and Darmell images which contained the Calvery annotation from my image galleries

and i have replaced them with this one.

 

Edited December 19, 2016 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Darnell Crop composite

[Guest]

Shelley's first statement clearly states he ran into a crying woman after he had left the steps he later id-ed her as CG

I think Shelley's first statement is not messed with as his follow up ones therefore valuing it a lot more.

Running woman is not CG