Did Gloria Calvery almost catch up to Marion Baker?

[Clive Largey]

9 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

That woman (H) is wearing a dress or long coat that is all one color. Running woman is wearing a black form fitting skirt and a white looking blouse. If I were to guess what she is carrying - it would be a purse and or scarf that she is holding up close to her chest as she ran.

I agree, this could very well be her in Zapruder but you can see here a taller woman two up from her left side and there is no evidence of this fact in Altgens. She also would have to have lost the headscarf before Darnell captured her. I'm not sure that Miss H has a full dress on though but I certainly see what you mean. I'm think I've nailed her in Altgens however and regardless of how she looked from the back in Zapruder, we can be sure where she came from within a few feet of who you pointed to above.

[Bill Miller]

15 minutes ago, Clive Largey said:

Running woman is not Calvery, looks nothing like the stocky woman in the wedding photo or images taken previous(that was one observation of Linda's, one doubt) and Miss "C" was actually wearing a red skirt and a full white blouse, running woman has something over her shoulders that is light colored but the rest of her outfit is dark top to bottom.

So no thoughts as to how Calvery knew there was a woman following the patrolman up the stairs and the running women is wearing all one color clothing.  That Lovelady and Shelley made up meeting Calvery and then looking back to see Truly and Baker enter the TSBD.  If you say so.     I just don't agree with you.

[Clive Largey]

Notice her hair flopping about in the Darnell footage and look at this one's in Altgens, with the headband which she appears to be touching and the scarf caught in it and hanging down. A bad hair day indeed.

[Bill Miller]

29 minutes ago, Clive Largey said:

I agree, this could very well be her in Zapruder but you can see here a taller woman two up from her left side and there is no evidence of this fact in Altgens. She also would have to have lost the headscarf before Darnell captured her. I'm not sure that Miss H has a full dress on though but I certainly see what you mean. I'm think I've nailed her in Altgens however and regardless of how she looked from the back in Zapruder, we can be sure where she came from within a few feet of who you pointed to above.

Altgens is the reverse of Zapruder. If a woman is wearing a dark skirt and a white top in one - the same woman isn't wearing an all one color dress or coat when seen from behind.

By the way ... Do you have the uncropped Altgen's 6 photo on hi- resolution?

 

Edited December 24, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

17 minutes ago, Clive Largey said:

Notice her hair flopping about in the Darnell footage and look at this one's in Altgens, with the headband which she appears to be touching and the scarf caught in it and hanging down. A bad hair day indeed.

This woman is wearing an all one colored dress with the lower hem being pleated. This is not at all what the running woman is wearing in my world. This particular woman seems to have all the signs of a bad case of Osteoporosis going on. I cannot see her being a match for running woman. or for Gloria Calvery.

 

Edited December 24, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Clive Largey]

47 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

So no thoughts as to how Calvery knew there was a woman following the patrolman up the stairs and the running women is wearing all one color clothing.  That Lovelady and Shelley made up meeting Calvery and then looking back to see Truly and Baker enter the TSBD.  If you say so.     I just don't agree with you.

Since we cannot find Calvery down in this area then maybe she was standing elsewhere, closer to the building perhaps. Running woman has her own agenda she doesn't appear to be following anyone but fleeing from something or someone, twenty seconds to reach this point in Darnell, that's a very respectable run. I didn't say made up though but inaccurate yes, recollections compared to a film like Darnell are pretty much worthless but again that's just my opinion and I'm just letting you know why I don't bother matching the films with the testimony. I've relieved myself of that burden, To be honest I have to go remind myself what Calvery said. Tidings.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Clive Largey

[Clive Largey]

27 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

Altgens is the reverse of Zapruder. If a woman is wearing a dark skirt and a white top in one - the same woman isn't wearing an all one color dress or coat when seen from behind.

By the way ... Do you have the uncropped Altgen's 6 photo on hi- resolution?

 

You are saying it's a white top. I say it's a head covering or perhaps a "throw" that was draped over her shoulders but regardless running woman has lost whatever was covering her head that she had on as Zapruder caught her. So it can still be either Miss "H" or who you last pointed to. That's her in Altgens but why do you ask if I have it? You want me to go look at it again? Something specific? 

[Clive Largey]

25 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

This woman is wearing an all one colored dress with the lower hem being pleated. This is not at all what the running woman is wearing in my world. This particular woman seems to have all the signs of a bad case of Osteoporosis going on. I cannot see her being a match for running woman. or for Gloria Calvery.

 

You failed to point out what's hanging off her left shoulder in Altgens or the evident headband, is there a valid reason for that that I should be aware of?

 

"...all the signs of a bad case of Osteoporosis going on"

Or on her cell phone. "Green, Green"

[Clive Largey]

53 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

So no thoughts as to how Calvery knew there was a woman following the patrolman up the stairs and the running women is wearing all one color clothing.  That Lovelady and Shelley made up meeting Calvery and then looking back to see Truly and Baker enter the TSBD.  If you say so.     I just don't agree with you.

Did Calvery herself say she followed a cop up the steps? If so could you point me to where and when she did that? If not then, what!? 

[Richard Price]

Using a previously posted image, I have highlighted what would have to be Gloria Calvary by removing the obstacle in front of her.  I have no dog in this fight, but I am always searching for clarity/truth.  I agree with Bill, this has to be her, as it is the only person in the line of people down the street which matches.  The only thing different is that when she is running up to the TSBD her scarf (bright red/orange) is no longer on her head.  In one of the other labeled prints in a prior posting, she is incorrectly identified as Peggy Burney.

[Clive Largey]

Thanks for adding your opinion Richard but Running woman doesn't have to be Calvery or to have come from this group and the best candidate would be someone without a headscarf on to begin with but from this line up who you pointed to fits the best.

Bill asked me about a unedited, HD version of Altgens and even though this is probably not the best, it was good enough for me to realize immediately that I'd been duped by studying an inferior copy. The material hanging off her back has all but disappeared and what's left is hardly worth mentioning.

Thanks for looking at that with me Bill.

Miss F has been named as Donaldson by others and despite the apparent gap between F and E in Altgens, if there's no one there standing between them and just out of the shot, like I had thought, then it's easy enough to go down the line and tick them off.

[Clive Largey]

On 12/19/2016 at 0:16 AM, Robin Unger said:

 

Mary Woodward 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eim4Pu57FZc&spfreload=5

 

This interview fails to use the the image of Woodward in Altgens despite it being far superior to the one in Zapruder that only shows her from the back. Could it perhaps be that's because she is seen smiling broadly after Kennedy was hit? Maybe it's a little awkward for Fagin's safe zone.
 
If you fast forward to 20:45 she remarks on Mark Lane's interest in her along with Jim Garrison, then shortly after talks about her TMWKK appearance which she still to this day thinks was made by the BBC. Worth five minutes of your time if you're interested.
For the record the BBC is responsible for David Attenborough, Monty Python and Dancing with the Stars whereas the group Nigel Turner worked for was an independent company and brought us things like The Benny Hill Show and umm... Mr Bean, that's plenty.
So unless Turner used the BBC tag to help secure the interview with her(it seems to work) I don't know why she would be confused. 

[Bill Miller]

On 12/24/2016 at 4:58 PM, Clive Largey said:

The recollections of witnesses have no influence on my personal assessment of the visual evidence and I think I am better off for it. I assume they are inaccurate from the get go and pay them little mind, or at least not as much as is traditional.  thus your conundrum does not effect me and it's this improved version of the Darnell film has helped me in that regard.

It doesn't appear that cumulative independent evidence has no influence on you either. As an investigator first and foremost ... I cannot agree that one should assume that witnesses "are inaccurate from the get go". In fact, if someone starts with such a failed approach, then one must ask why bother reading the witnesses statements in the first place if he or she truly believes that the witnesses are inaccurate from the get go. In other words - your actions then contradict your position concerning witnesses. It simply comes across as a witnesses memory cannot be considered accurate unless it supports a preconceived position that you hold. 

Darnell shows Smith being followed by Lovelady and Shelley directly towards where these woman were standing. That's where I believe all three of these men where informed on what had happened and not when they were near the TSBD.

Lovelady and Shelley followed Smith directly to where these women were standing - who is Smith? In fact - your observations are so wrong that I think I will just show you how much you are wrong rather than to drag this nonsense out any further. To start with - the woman "C" you refer to has dark hair - Calvery did not have dark hair. Second of all, The woman you refer to as "C" remained at the street along side of Millican after the shots, thus it is virtually impossible for her to be in two places at the same time. See inserts below .....

So as its been demonstrated here - one should not assume that witnesses observations are inaccurate from the get go.

Running woman is not Calvery, looks nothing like the stocky woman in the wedding photo or images taken previous(that was one observation of Linda's, one doubt) and Miss "C" was actually wearing a red skirt and a full white blouse, running woman has something over her shoulders that is light colored but the rest of her outfit is dark top to bottom.

.Calvery had high curvy hips - just like the woman in the wedding photo and in this photo ---->

and here ....

 

When all the Jibber-Jabber is said and done - there were only two women remotely dressed like running woman and the one you chose remained at the street with Millican when Baker was doing his run. I do not care to carry this discussion on any further as it has  been resolved in my view.

 

Edited December 26, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

On 12/24/2016 at 6:46 PM, Richard Price said:

I agree with Bill, this has to be her, as it is the only person in the line of people down the street which matches.  The only thing different is that when she is running up to the TSBD her scarf (bright red/orange) is no longer on her head.

The woman appears to be running with her arms crossed in front of her chest as if holding her head scarf against her bosom.

[Dave Curbow]

Good to see you back, Bill. Solid analysis.

Dave