10 Conclusions (of Pat Speer)

[Cliff Varnell]

Well, this suggests to me that you and I are quite different kinds of punk rockers, Cliff. I am more like the Clash--I have an agenda--showing how the evidence is at odds with the single-assassin conclusion.

The Clash were corporate sell-outs.

Their first album -- The Clash -- changed my life.

But Give 'Em Enough Rope was a letdown in my book, and London Calling while a great record it isn't punk rock at all.

And you are more like the Sex Pistols--spreading chaos and anarchy for its own sake.

That ain't me, pal.

If I bought your "seminal UK punk rock" analogy...I'd identify more with N. Ireland's Stiff Little Fingers.

Indie from the git-go. Rep based on the quality of their work not the volume of the hype.

Don't believe them
Don't believe them
Don't be bitten twice
You gotta suss, suss, suss, suss, suss out
Suss suspect device

T1 is the Big Lie.

Don't be bitten twice!

Edited August 19, 2015 by Cliff Varnell

[Cliff Varnell]

Here's a JFK-assassination-related punk rock song just a few years old.

Occupy the city with a kitchen frying pan

Go out with a vacuum, get off on it,

Seduce battalions of police damsels

Naked cops rejoice in the new reforms

The f***ing end to sexist putinists!

Kropotkin-vodka splashes in the bellies

You feel good, but those Kremlin bastards

Face the revolt of the toilets, fatal poisoning

Flashing lights won’t save you, Kennedy will meet you

The f***ing end to informant bosses!

Caught some zzz’s, time to oppress the day

The knuckle-duster’s ready, feminism’s sharpened

Take your soup away to Eastern Siberia

So that Riot will become rough enough

The f***ing end to sexist putinists!

The f***ing end to sexist putinists!

The f***ing end to sexist putinists!

Pussy Riot flips the script & threatens the Russian oligarchs, whose "flashing lights" won't save them from assassination any more than Kennedy's Secret Service saved him.

[Cliff Varnell]

Pat,

While I appreciate the whole punk rock thing I find a better analogy in E. Martin Schotz: The waters of knowledge versus the waters of uncertainty.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/COPA1998EMS.html

The clothing evidence is that from which the waters of knowledge spring -- cuz it's the clothing evidence which is knowable.

The men who covered up the murder of JFK sent a gangster into the basement of the Dallas PD to whack the patsy.

Why do you assume the men who covered up JFK's murder were so competent they couldn't have slipped up and manifested the BOH photo which still proves conspiracy?

The bullet holes in the clothes are too low to have been associated with the damage around C7/T1 seen in the neck x-ray.

Deal with that salient fact and you swim in the waters of knowledge.

Press this T1 nonsense and you are one of the life-guards for the waters of uncertainty.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Cliff Varnell

[Glenn Nall]

Glenn, if you can't tell the difference between a critique of someone's ideas and a personal attack -- what business do you have here?

Pat Speer has repeatedly stated JFK had a wound in his back at T1.

This is incorrect. JFK was provably shot in the back at T3 -- a major distniction

To attack this mis-information about the T3 back wound with a fact-based argument is what this forum is all about.

Funny how you never bring anything of substance to the discussion, Glenn...

sure I do, Cliff - I once pointed out that DVP had misspelled the word "misremembered," and i think that's fairly substantial, considering the number of times he's used the word.

More substance? I think you should consider different eyeglass frames. Those make you look smart.

(really? you resort to personal insult when i point out that you've been crying about something you have no hope of changing for about 6 months? that tells me you have no REAL ammunition, so you're, ummm... reverting to first grade...? yeah, that's it.

change your glasses.)

[Cliff Varnell]

[Pat Speer]

If it makes you feel any better, Cliff, I've got a Stiff Little Fingers 45 in a closet somewhere. I think it's Alternative Ulster, with Barbed Wire Love as the b-side.

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Greg Parker said:

<quote on>

Pat, I note your comments regarding further info from Larry H. I agree; Larry is a difficult man to disagree with, and is deserving of his reputation.

We know for sure one was in the lead car of the motorcade, and another (Powell) just happened to be wandering around. Whether or not others were present, well, I, like you, had accepted Jones' word on that (even though I do believe he lied in other areas). Now, like you I'll defer to Larry.

One other possible consideration though... the 112th MIG Dallas office just happened to be on Elm St... on McWattter's bus route.

Soon after the assassination, Barry Cohen of the ACLU investigated Oswald's alleged presence at a meeting. His conclusion? Oswald was there as a guest of RUTH PAINE. Cohen was not interviewed by the WC. Instead, they interviewed Greg Olds -- and did not ask him one single question about that meeting! In fact, the ONLY people to put Mike Paine and Oswald together at an ACLU meeting were... Mike Paine and his good friend from Bell, Krank Krystinik. Paine's father, to be more accurate, was a Trotskist who helped split the SWP by helping to form the Forrest-Johnson Tendency.

I kind of looked into this once and formed the opinion that they weren't the same person. For starters, the AVGA Lee was of Chinese heritage... the FPCC Lee, I believe, was African-American. I could be wrong... [my emphasis]

There were also two Jack Rubinsteins. Both had union connections. One changed his name to Ruby... this caused some problems regarding people wanting to give information, but confusing the two. I belive the DPD files reveal similar confusion re Vincent Lee.

Actually Abe Weinstein was her employer at the Theater Lounge. There is some dispute as to whether she ever stripped at Ruby's. She certainly did not do so at the Carousel, but may have (for a short while) in the late '50s at the Vegas.

Some interesting material, Pat. Thanks

<end quote>

**

Greg,

I'm not sure if V.T. Lee, the head of the NY chapter of FPCC was African-American, but he succeeded Richard Thomas Gibson, who was black, to become the last national leader of the FPCC.

Gibson was a journalist who expatriated to Europe (Switzerland and London) - i think he had worked for CBS in S.F. Funny, i just heard about him for the first time yesterday when i came across Nov or Dec '63 CIA files on him the HSCA had finally gotten released. At the time of the assassination the CIA was spying on him in Switzerland, and reportedly he told a friend that Oswald was "one of us" (i assume he meant a communist and/or an FPCC member - of course Gibson could not have known (or could he?) that LHO started his own little "chapter" in N.O. that consisted of just himself and "Hidell").

What amazed me about this story, and got me digging on him yesterday, was that the CIA memo said Gibson had corresponded with Oswald 2 years prior - ie: 1961, when he, obviously, was in Russia! I had never heard about this before! Gibson went on to tell this friend that Oswald "was crazy" (ie: obviously distancing himself and the FPCC from "crazy" Oswald) and that as a result he had burnt all their letters! Wowza!! Can you imagine what a treasure trove that would have been to read?!! It's really too bad he burned them! This great article says he was willing to turn against the FPCC for money and be recruited by the CIA, but the CIA rejected him - i think - it's a little blurry, and i think that's the point. Did he or did he not become a CIA asset?

At any rate that set me off down a rabbit hole doing genealogical research on him to see if he was still alive etc...and looking for a photo of him. Turns out he was born in L.A in '31 and died in S.F. in 2003 at age 72. So, he obviously repatriated at some point. I found US Public Records showing he lived in Berkeley and Oakland in the '90's and early 2000s. Still trying to find a photo of him. A black CBS reporter back then was pretty rare bird! Surely there's a photo of him somewhere...I have some vague recollection of seeing a black reporter in old news clips (or from my actual memories of the early '60s when i was just a young child) - it may be him i'm or it may be another pioneering black journalist from the late 60's/early 70's i'm recalling. I did find his papers are at George Washington University in D.C.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Linda Giovanna Zambanini]

Why do you guys waste your time on this clown? If we all ignored him, he would be ranting in an empty room...

Bravo! Seriously, there needs to be a block button on these toxic posters! It's just this sort of sarcastic bickering that drives good researchers and newbies away from forums like this. Any chance that can be developed and added to the system, Mr. Simkin? If you won't ban people like this, we need to have a way to personally block them for our own sanity!

Edited September 10, 2015 by Linda Giovanna Zambanini

[Glenn Nall]

Why do you guys waste your time on this clown? If we all ignored him, he would be ranting in an empty room...

Bravo! Seriously, there needs to be a block button on these toxic posters! It's just this sort of sarcastic bickering that drives good researchers and newbies away from forums like this. Any chance that can be developed and added to the system, Mr. Simkin? If you won't ban people like this, we need to have a way to personally block them for our own sanity!

"Why do you guys waste your time on this clown? If we all ignored him, he would be ranting in an empty room..."

i remember when this was proposed, and I can only guess that you're referring to the same person it referred to at the time, because I, having wholeheartedly agreed to do so and blocked him, can't see anything he posts. You're right, it has done wonders for my sanity.

I don't know about the others who agreed to this at that time - i'd have assumed a concerted effort to ignore him would have made a point, but with people like that, one never knows. with what i've seen of his reasoning skills, he's liable to imagine all kinds of reasons we don't take him seriously.

HE, and people LIKE HIM, certainly have discouraged me from engaging in any serious discussion in Ed Forum for a time, and it's quite clear to me that these types are a malignant distraction to our earnest efforts at progress...

Edited September 10, 2015 by Glenn Nall