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In 2002 Thomas Mallon published a book entitled Mrs. Paine's Garage which Ruth Paine herself approves.

Aside from this book, the theories and rumors that have circulated about her have always intrigued me. She is sometimes regarded as a CIA agent -- a conspirator to kill JFK -- a member of a Quaker-Unitarian conspiracy within the CIA (George Michael Evica) and even a lesbian who drove LHO to kill JFK out of insane jealousy (William Manchester).

So much nonsense has been written about Ruth Hyde Paine, that I want to start a catalog of all the rumors. At the same time, I want to -- gently -- propose my own theory of Ruth Paine, as follows:

IMHO, Ruth Paine was an innocent bystander in the JFK murder. She was a Quaker who believed in the USA and in Christian Charity. She truly felt pity for Marina Oswald's plight in 1963, since Marina was pregnant and Lee could not hold down a steady job.

Worse, as Marina complained to her, Lee Oswald began ordering Marina Oswald to return to the USSR without him. Whether he was teasing her or harassing her we don't know, but Ruth Paine thought this was abuse. Ruth wanted to make it possible for Marina Oswald to live in the USA as an independent woman with her children -- if (and only if) that's what Marina wanted.

Aside from that involvement, Ruth Paine offered to the Warren Commission two critically important letters written by Lee Harvey Oswald:

(1) The Walker Letter (written 10 April 1963)

(2) The Mexico City Letter (written 09 November 1963)

My CT claims that the letters are genuine, written by Lee Harvey Oswald on the dates indicated, and that they prove two facts:

(I) That Lee Harvey Oswald truly did try to assassinate General Walker

(II) That Lee Harvey Oswald truly did try to enter Cuba through Mexico City in September 1963, using the "credentials" list revealed by the Lopez Report.

The Mexico City Letter which Ruth Paine found in her home on 09 November 1963, and copied by hand, matches the original received by the Soviet Embassy in Washington DC. More importantly, the Mexico City Letter matches the form and substance of the "credentials" list revealed by the Lopez Report.

I therefore maintain -- on the basis of this empirical evidence -- that Lee Harvey Oswald (1) tried to kill Walker on behalf of George De Mohrenschildt; and (2) tried to enter Cuba through Mexico on behalf of Guy Banister.

I propose, further, that Michael Paine was aware of (1) but ignorant of (2), while Ruth Paine was ignorant of both (1) and (2).

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

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In 2002 Thomas Mallon published a book entitled Mrs. Paine's Garage which Ruth Paine herself approves.

Aside from this book, the theories and rumors that have circulated about her have always intrigued me. She is sometimes regarded as a CIA agent -- a conspirator to kill JFK -- a member of a Quaker-Unitarian conspiracy within the CIA (George Michael Evica) and even a lesbian who drove LHO to kill JFK out of insane jealousy (William Manchester).

So much nonsense has been written about Ruth Hyde Paine, that I want to start a catalog of all the rumors. At the same time, I want to -- gently -- propose my own theory of Ruth Paine, as follows:

IMHO, Ruth Paine was an innocent bystander in the JFK murder. She was a Quaker who believed in the USA and in Christian Charity. She truly felt pity for Marina Oswald's plight in 1963, since Marina was pregnant and Lee could not hold down a steady job.

Worse, as Marina complained to her, Lee Oswald began ordering Marina Oswald to return to the USSR without him. Whether he was teasing her or harassing her we don't know, but Ruth Paine thought this was abuse. Ruth wanted to make it possible for Marina Oswald to live in the USA as an independent woman with her children -- if (and only if) that's what Marina wanted.

Aside from that involvement, Ruth Paine offered to the Warren Commission two critically important letters written by Lee Harvey Oswald:

(1) The Walker Letter (written 10 April 1963)

(2) The Mexico City Letter (written 09 November 1963)

My CT claims that the letters are genuine, written by Lee Harvey Oswald on the dates indicated, and that they prove two facts:

(I) That Lee Harvey Oswald truly did try to assassinate General Walker

(II) That Lee Harvey Oswald truly did try to enter Cuba through Mexico City in September 1963, using the "credentials" list revealed by the Lopez Report.

The Mexico City Letter which Ruth Paine found in her home on 09 November 1963, and copied by hand, matches the original received by the Soviet Embassy in Washington DC. More importantly, the Mexico City Letter matches the form and substance of the "credentials" list revealed by the Lopez Report.

I therefore maintain -- on the basis of this empirical evidence -- that Lee Harvey Oswald (1) tried to kill Walker on behalf of George De Mohrenschildt; and (2) tried to enter Cuba through Mexico on behalf of Guy Banister.

I propose, further, that Michael Paine was aware of (1) but ignorant of (2), while Ruth Paine was ignorant of both (1) and (2).

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

ya know Paul, this new book by Talbot just may deposit Ruth Paine on the garbage heap... I suspect she knows much more than she's telling us.

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ya know Paul, this new book by Talbot just may deposit Ruth Paine on the garbage heap... I suspect she knows much more than she's telling us.

If Ruth knows more, David, it will be about General Walker, and not about the CIA.

The rumors about Ruth Paine and the CIA I've read so far go like this: Ruth's mother-in-law had a childhood friend named Mary Bancroft who had a love affair with Allen Dulles in the 1940's. THEREFORE, Ruth Paine must be a CIA Agent

Gimme a friggin' break.

I sure hope that David Talbot has a better argument than that.

Ruth Paine was a devoted Quaker and Charity worker. That's it.

If you find something of real interest about Ruth Paine though David, I warmly welcome you to share it here.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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ya know Paul, this new book by Talbot just may deposit Ruth Paine on the garbage heap... I suspect she knows much more than she's telling us.

If Ruth knows more, David, it will be about General Walker, and not about the CIA.

The rumors about Ruth Paine and the CIA I've read so far go like this: Ruth's mother-in-law had a childhood friend named Mary Bancroft who had a love affair with Allen Dulles in the 1940's. THEREFORE, Ruth Paine must be a CIA Agent

Gimme a friggin' break.

I sure hope that David Talbot has a better argument than that. I sort of doubt it though.

Ruth Paine was a devoted Quaker and Charity worker. That's it.

If you find something of real interest about Ruth Paine though David, I warmly welcome you to share it here.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Perhaps the below points can be commented on, Paul? To be sure, they should be put to rest if NOT true or possible.

Mary Bancroft and Allen Dulles were still seeing each other and going out in 1963 (not way back in the forties). Mary Bancroft and Dulles went to a 63 summer lunch at the home of Gaspard D'Andelot Belin (head lawyer Treasury Department (which controlled the Secret Service, whose wife was sister of McGeorge Bundy ) also at the lunch was James Jesus Angleton.

Ruth's sister CIA and Ruth's dad connected to CIA connected AID.

James DiEugenio, review of Larry Hancock's Someone Would Have Talked (March, 2008)

Another interesting part of the book is how it deals with the experiences of the late Dallas detective Buddy Walthers. This is based on a rare manuscript about the man by author Eric Tagg. Walthers was part of at least three major evidentiary finds in Dallas. Through his wife, he discovered the meetings at the house on Harlendale Avenue by Alpha 66 in the fall of 1963. Second, he was with FBI agent Robert Barrett when he picked up what appears to be a bullet slug in the grass at Dealey Plaza. And third, something I was unaware of until the work of John Armstrong and is also in this book, Walthers was at the house of Ruth and Michael Paine when the Dallas Police searched it on Friday afternoon. Walthers told Tagg that they "found six or seven metal filing cabinets full of letters, maps, records and index cards with names of pro-Castro sympathizers." (Hancock places this statement in his footnotes on p. 552.) This is absolutely startling of course since, combined with the work of Carol Hewett, Steve Jones, and Barbara La Monica, it essentially cinches the case that the Paines were domestic surveillance agents in the Cold War against communism. (Hancock notes how the Warren Commission and Wesley Liebeler forced Walthers to backtrack on this point and then made it disappear in the "Speculation and Rumors" part of the report.)

(17) James DiEugenio, review of James W. Douglass', JFK and the Unspeakable (April, 2008)

Michael Paine did not just work at Bell Helicopter. He did not just have a security clearance there. His stepfather, Arthur Young, invented the Bell helicopter. His mother, Ruth Forbes Paine Young, was descended from the Boston Brahmin Forbes family -- one of the oldest in America. She was a close friend of Mary Bancroft. Mary Bancroft worked with Allen Dulles as a spy during World War II in Switzerland. This is where Dulles got many of his ideas on espionage, which he would incorporate as CIA Director under Eisenhower. Bancroft also became Dulles' friend and lover. She herself called Ruth Forbes, "a very good friend of mine." (p. 169) This may explain why, according to Walt Brown, the Paines were the most oft-questioned witnesses to appear before the Commission.

Ruth Paine's father was William Avery Hyde. Ruth described him before the Warren Commission as an insurance underwriter. (p. 170) But there was more to it than that. Just one month after the Warren Report was issued, Mr. Hyde received a three-year government contract from the Agency for International Development (AID). He became their regional adviser for all of Latin America. As was revealed in the seventies, AID was riddled with CIA operatives. To the point that some called it an extension of the Agency. Hyde's reports were forwarded both to the State Department and the CIA. (Ibid)

Ruth Paine's older sister was Sylvia Hyde Hoke. Sylvia was living in Falls Church, Virginia in 1963. Ruth stayed with Sylvia in September of 1963 while traveling across country. (p. 170) Falls Church adjoins Langley, which was then the new headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency, a prized project of Allen Dulles. It was from Falls Church that Ruth Paine journeyed to New Orleans to pick up Marina Oswald, who she had been introduced to by George DeMohrenschildt. After she picked Marina up, she deposited her in her home in Irving, Texas. Thereby separating Marina from Lee at the time of the assassination.

Some later discoveries made Ruth's itinerary in September quite interesting. It turned out that John Hoke, Sylvia's husband, also worked for AID. And her sister Sylvia worked directly for the CIA itself. By the time of Ruth's visit, Sylvia had been employed by the Agency for eight years. In regards to this interestingly timed visit to her sister, Jim Garrison asked Ruth some pointed questions when she appeared before a grand jury in 1968. He first asked her if she knew her sister had a file that was classified at that time in the National Archives. Ruth replied she did not. In fact, she was not aware of any classification matter at all. When the DA asked her if she had any idea why it was being kept secret, Ruth replied that she didn't. Then Garrison asked Ruth if she knew which government agency Sylvia worked for. The uninquiring Ruth said she did not know. (p. 171) This is the same woman who was seen at the National Archives pouring through her files in 1976, when the House Select Committee was gearing up.

When Marina Oswald was called before the same grand jury, a citizen asked her if she still associated with Ruth Paine. Marina replied that she didn't. When asked why not, Marina stated that it was upon the advice of the Secret Service. She then elaborated on this by explaining that they had told her it would look bad if the public found out the "connection between me and Ruth and CIA." An assistant DA then asked, "In other words, you were left with the distinct impression that she was in some way connected with the CIA?" Marina replied simply, "Yes." (p. 173)

Douglass interpolates the above with the why and how of Oswald ending up on the motorcade route on 11/22/63. Robert Adams of the Texas Employment Commission testified to having called the Paine household at about the time Oswald was referred by Ruth -- via a neighbor-- to the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) for a position. He called and was told Oswald was not there. He left a message for Oswald to come down and see him since he had a position available as a cargo handler at a regional cargo airline. Interestingly, this job paid about 1/3 more than the job Oswald ended up with at the TSBD. He called again the next day to inquire about Oswald and the position again. He was now told that Lee had already taken a job. Ruth was questioned about the Adams call by the Warren Commission's Albert Jenner. At first she denied ever hearing of such a job offer. She said, "I do not recall that." (p. 172) She then backtracked, in a tactical way. She now said that she may have heard of the offer from Lee. This, of course, would seem to contradict both the Adams testimony and common sense. If Oswald was cognizant of the better offer, why would he take the lower paying job?

Her and George DeM... what an interesting pair, for sure!

Edited by David G. Healy

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BRIAN WALKER SAID:

Did Ruth Paine have six or seven metal filing cabinets full of letters, maps, records and index cards with names of pro-Castro sympathizers as has been claimed? Does anyone know anything about this?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

It's very likely just another one of the dozens of myths that conspiracy theorists love to tout as true about the JFK case. And according to what Ruth Paine herself said in a public appearance on September 13, 2013, the story about the "seven file boxes of Cuba sympathizers' names" was a completely bogus story from the get-go. Listen to Ruth talk about it right here.

And let's stop and think about this for a moment from the POV of the CTers who think Ruth Paine was a "CIA agent" who was attempting to manipulate and frame Lee Oswald for Kennedy's murder in 1963:

In such a circumstance, with Ruth being a "CIA" employee involved in a lot of underhanded shenanigans, would it make any sense for Ruth to keep on her property (or, in general, traceable back to her) six or seven filing cabinets filled with stuff that could only make the authorities (and the conspiracy theorists) suspicious about what she was up to? IMO, the whole thing is just silly to begin with.


GARY CRAIG POSTED THIS.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Thanks for supplying Decker Exhibit No. 5323, Gary.

Nice to know that Ruth and Michael Paine weren't hiding anything.

Do conspiracy theorists actually believe that anything in that "set of file cabinets" could possibly have any relation to any alleged "CIA" activity revolving around either Ruth or Michael Paine and a plot to frame Lee Oswald for JFK's assassination?

According to Deputy Walthers' report in Decker Exhibit 5323, the cabinets were seized on either November 22 or 23 and were found right there in Ruth Paine's house in Irving. And if Ruth had been "setting up" Oswald for weeks (or months) prior to Nov. 22, as many conspiracists believe, she, of course, would have to know that the police would be searching her residence right after the assassination, since she was allowing the wife of the "patsy" to stay at her house and since the "patsy" himself stayed there the night before the assassination.

All of this indicates, of course, that whatever was in those filing cabinets could not possibly be some "key" to link Ruth and Michael Paine to an assassination plot, nor could it be a key to link the Paines to the CIA -- unless, that is, the conspiracy theorists want to believe that Ruth Paine was a very very stupid person. And by just listening to Ruth speak for only a few minutes, it's fairly obvious that the word "stupid" does not apply to Mrs. Ruth Hyde Paine.


GARY CRAIG SAID:

What are you talking about?

Are you trying to make the metal filing cabinets disappear again, like the DPD and FBI did in '63?

Too late, the cat's out of the bag.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Gary,

If you were a CIA operative and were tasked with the chore of framing Lee Harvey Oswald for President Kennedy's murder, would you place IN YOUR HOUSE a bunch of stuff that proves you were "CIA"?

I.E.:

The SAME HOUSE where you are allowing the patsy's wife to live....and the SAME HOUSE where you've "arranged" for the police to think the assassination rifle was stored....and the SAME HOUSE where all of the patsy's belongings are being kept....and the SAME HOUSE where the resident patsy spent his last night of freedom? You'd have to be nuts.

And why wasn't Decker Exhibit 5323 destroyed (along with the file cabinets and all those "secret" Ruth Paine documents)?

The bumbling, stumbling plotters strike again. They can manage to deep-six a bunch of filing cabinets and tons of suspicious documents relating to that vixen named Ruth, but they can't quite seem to manage to get rid of that one sheet of paper containing Walthers' report about the cabinets. Yeah, right.

EYEROLL.gif

Naturally, no conspiracy theorist can think of ANY other solution to ANYTHING relating to the JFK case OTHER than "it's a conspiracy". No non-sinister explanation would even be entertained by the likes of a conspiracy monger such as a Gary Craig.

So, Ruth Paine is automatically guilty of--something. The conspiracy-happy kooks aren't sure just WHAT she's "guilty" of. But she's got to be guilty of SOMETHING, that much the conspiracy buffs know for sure.

The conspiracy nuts who want to hang Ruth Paine are sickening. I only wish she could sue the pants off of at least one of the idiots who has slandered her name since 1963. She couldn't lose.


JASON ADAIR SAID:

Thumbs up Dave!

I've always felt Ruth Paine is a very sympathetic character in the LHO murder spree....and subsequent character assassination by CTs.

Ruth is the perfect example of why LNers CARE to post here. To help protect innocent people from slander.


RONALD VAN DIJK SAID:

I think this is a weak argument. Maybe she (or he) made a mistake? Forgot about the thing? There are other possibilities of course.

What did she say about these boxes? Undoubtedly the WC has asked her about these files? Where are these files now? Names?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Ronald,

I can't find a thing in Ruth Paine's Warren Commission testimony or in her Clay Shaw trial testimony concerning the "metal file cabinets" and their contents. Maybe there is something in her extremely lengthy WC sessions about them, but I had no luck finding it. (The CTers would no doubt say that the WC was covering up something re the file cabinets too, since they mentioned nothing about them during Ruth's many hours on the witness stand.)

I also noticed that Vince Bugliosi doesn't mention a thing about those file cabinets in his 2007 book.

It would be nice to know what was in the file cabinets. But I still stand by my previous argument re the cabinets. If Ruth was "CIA", would she have such things sitting in her garage for the police to find? Or was she supposedly in cahoots with the DPD and Sheriff's Office too? Did she nudge Bill Decker one day and whisper -- "Remember, Bill, you've got to get rid of those filing cabinets." And then Decker complied? Too funny.

EDIT -- But, as I mentioned in an earlier post, we do now have Ruth's very own words concerning the topic of the filing cabinets (or "file boxes"). Here again is what Ruth herself said in September of 2013:

https://app.box.com/s/iuce7aaneb3xnfj472hy


RONALD VAN DIJK SAID:

Following the same arguments you use for Ruth Paine: Would Oswald leave a rifle with his fingerprints in the SBD? Would he make the backyard pictures? Would he....? Do you think he was nuts?.... You are explaining the find of the cabinets in a way that suits you.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I am explaining the file cabinets in a way that suits me....yes. But it's also in a way that makes sense (IMO).

Re: Oswald doing those things you mentioned -- There's a big difference: it can be PROVEN he did those things (although very few Internet CTers would ever dare admit that Oswald actually did the first thing on your LHO list--leaving his prints on the rifle in the TSBD on November 22nd -- but he did it all the same).

And the backyard photos have been proven to be genuine (i.e., non-phony). That's not even debatable here in the real world of science where a negative exists of one of the pictures which can be tied to Oswald's own camera. Did the plotters manage to steal LHO's camera too? And then got Marina to lie about taking the photos?

When does this string of conspiracy-oriented nonsense end? Or does it ever reach an end in this case? (Silly question, I know. Of course it doesn't end...and never will. That's why we're here now.)

And btw...yes, Oswald was kinda nuts (not "insane", but just plain "nuts"). You've got to be "kinda nuts" in order to point a gun at someone and pull the trigger (unless it's strictly self-defense). And Oswald did that THREE times in 1963 (Walker, Kennedy, and Tippit.) And none of the three was done in "self-defense". Yes, Oswald was nuts alright.


DAVID VON PEIN LATER SAID [QUOTING THE WARREN COMMISSION TESTIMONY OF DALLAS DEPUTY SHERIFF BUDDY WALTHERS]:

BUDDY WALTHERS. You could tell it from the way it was tied and the impression of where that barrel went up in it where it was tied, that a rifle had been tied in it, but what kind---you couldn't tell, but you could tell a rifle had been wrapped up in it, and then we found some little metal file cabinets---I don't know what kind you would call them---they would carry an 8 by 10 folder, all right, but with a single handle on top of it and the handle moves.

WESLEY LIEBELER. About how many of them would you think there were?

Mr. WALTHERS. There were six or seven, I believe, and I put them all in the trunk of my car and we also found a box of pictures, a bunch of pictures that we taken. We didn't go to the trouble of looking at any of this stuff much---just more or less confiscated it at the time, and we looked at it there just like that, and then we took all this stuff and put it in the car and then Mrs. Paine got a phone number from Mrs. Oswald where you could call Lee Harvey Oswald in Oak Cliff. It was a Whitehall phone number, I believe, and they said they didn't know where he lived, but this was where they called him, and I called Sheriff Decker on the phone when I was there and gave him that number for the crisscross, so they could send some men to that house, which I think they did, but I didn't go myself. Then we put everybody in the car, the kids, Mrs. Oswald, and everyone---no; just a minute---before that, though, this Michael Paine or Mitchell Paine, whichever you call it, came home and I had understood from Mrs. Paine already that they weren't living together, that they were separated and he was supposed to be living in Grand Prairie and when he showed up I asked him what was his object in coming home. He said--well, after he had heard about the President's getting shot, he just decided he would take off and come home, and he arrived there while we were there.

[...]

Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets?

Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works.

Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them?

Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it.

Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that?

Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day.

Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel.

Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted around.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walthers

[END WARREN COMMISSION QUOTES.]


Question:

What proof is there that the file cabinets belonged to Ruth or Michael Paine? Why couldn't that stuff have been part of Lee Oswald's personal possessions? After all, about everything Lee and Marina owned was in Mrs. Paine's garage in November of '63.

This part of Buddy Walthers' Warren Commission testimony above certainly makes it sound as though at least some of the material in at least one of the metal file cabinets belonged to Lee Harvey Oswald:

"We opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead..."


In addition, there is this WC testimony from Marina Oswald, in which she refers to a metal file cabinet owned by Lee Oswald, in which he kept materials associated with his Fair Play For Cuba activities (the box itself can be seen in Commission Exhibit 125):

Mr. THORNE. Exhibit 125 is a file cabinet for presumably three by five or five by seven inch cards.

Mrs. OSWALD. Lee kept his printing things in that, pencils.

Mr. RANKIN. The things that he printed his Fair Play for Cuba leaflets on?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Pencils and materials that he used in connection with that matter?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. Did he have any index cards in that metal case?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he had some.

Mr. RANKIN. You don't know what happened to them?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what was on those index cards?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

Mr. RANKIN. A list of any people that you know of?

Mrs. OSWALD. No. I don't know.

Mr. RANKIN. Were those leaflets about Fair Play for Cuba printed?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. And then did he stamp something on them after he had them printed?

Mrs. OSWALD. He would print his name and address on them.

Mr. RANKIN. You don't know what happened to the cards that were in that?

Mrs. OSWALD. No.

[END WC QUOTES.]


Whether the metal box of LHO's (CE125) has any connection at all to the several similar such metal boxes found at Ruth Paine's house on 11/22/63, I haven't the slightest idea. But perhaps Lee owned more than one such box.

~shrug~


LARRY BALDWIN SAID:

The questions to LNs (DVP in particular):

1. Did the file cabinets exist as documented?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I don't think there's any doubt of that fact. Decker Exhibit 5323 is the proof of their "existence", plus Buddy Walthers' WC testimony. He mentions the "six or seven file cabinets" there too. And I certainly don't think Buddy W. just made it up from whole cloth.

I will admit, point-blank, that prior to today [July 10, 2013], I had no knowledge of the definitive existence of any such "file cabinets" being confiscated from Ruth Paine's house (other than to hear James DiEugenio ramble on about such cabinets during some of his appearances on Black Op Radio in the past; but you know how far I trust Jimbo; so anything uttered by him isn't going to make a big impression on a person like myself, seeing as how Jimbo can't even get the easy stuff right--like Oswald shooting Tippit).

But, anyway, prior to 7/10/13, I really had no desire to dig into the "file cabinet" matter at all. And obviously neither did Vincent Bugliosi, because upon searching my PDF file containing the entire 2800 pages of "Reclaiming History", I couldn't find a single reference to the "file cabinets" in that tome--even when cross-referencing and searching for "Decker Exhibit No. 5323". Vince might have mentioned the cabinets in his book, but if he did, I couldn't find it via my word search today.

So, yes, the cabinets (or, more accurately, the "small metal boxes") definitely did (or do) exist.


LARRY BALDWIN SAID:

2. Did the material in the file cabinets exist as documented?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I haven't the slightest idea. Nor do you. And that's because (based on the limited "scope" of my looking into this matter) there doesn't appear to be anything in the testimony of anyone that would clarify the contents of the file cabinets/metal boxes. Walthers said "I don't know myself to this day" what was in the cabinets. And there's nothing in the testimony of Will Fritz or Jesse Curry or Sheriff Bill Decker pertaining to the cabinets either (that I could find via a word search). Nor is there any reference to the cabinets in the testimony of Guy Rose.

There is, however, something in the testimony of DPD Detective Richard Stovall that might be of interest (although whether these "boxes" picked up by Stovall are related to the "file cabinets" discussed by Buddy Walthers, I haven't the foggiest)....

Mr. STOVALL -- "I've got listed "one grey metal file box, which is 12 inches by 6 inches; youth pictures and literature." I've got, "One black and gray metal box 10 inches by 4 inches, letters, etc., one box brown Keystone projector." Let's stop just a minute and let me tell you about this. These two metal boxes came out of Ruth Paine's bedroom. This Keystone projector came out of the closet in the hall. Then, I have listed, "Three brown metal boxes 12 inches by 4 inches containing phonograph records." They came out of Ruth Paine's bedroom."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/stovall

EDIT -- Please note that most of the above information supplied by Detective Stovall concerning the contents of various "metal boxes" perfectly matches the items that Ruth Paine herself said was in the "file boxes" during her 2013 public appearance that I twice provided above. In that 2013 audio, she said three of the boxes contained "folk dance records", three more boxes contained her "college papers", and the seventh box had a "projector" in it.


LARRY BALDWIN SAID:

If yes to #1 or #2, what were the Paines doing with this information and what are the implications?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I'm not convinced the stuff in the "file cabinets" even belonged to Ruth Paine. As I speculated previously, maybe that stuff belonged to Lee Oswald. And this portion of Buddy Walthers' testimony is one reason why I say that:

"We opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead..."

So, as to WHAT exactly was contained in the boxes/cabinets and WHO exactly was the owner of that material -- I have no idea. Do you?


RONALD VAN DIJK SAID:

And since you checked all conspiracy's [sic] of any sort: Ruth has nothing to do with these cabinets! We can go on to the next topic! Life is easy if you want!


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

"We opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead..." -- Eddy "Buddy" Walthers

Sure sounds like OSWALD'S letter there, doesn't it? And why would Oswald's letter be in Ruth Paine's metal cabinets?

Who do you think the "he" is referring to in this sentence, Ronald?.....

"That's from the people he writes to in Russia."


BRIAN WALKER SAID:

Thank you LNs for clearing this up. I didn't know much about this. Thank you kooks for trying to make it seem sinister and getting totally destroyed by LNers who spent a few minutes looking into it. I always enjoy when that happens.


VERN SAYLOR SAID:

There is no question that the cabinets were found at the Paines house, why wouldn't the DPD, FBI and WC make more of an effort to link them to LHO, esp. after LHO was murdered?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

That's not a bad question. And I'll admit I don't know the answer to it.

[...]

I would, however, like to know where the metal file cabinets went. And is the metal box I mentioned previously (CE125) part of the "six or seven" cabinets/boxes that were seized by the police at the Paine house? And are the five "metal" boxes referred to in Detective Richard Stovall's WC testimony the same as the metal cabinets described by Buddy Walthers? I just do not know. But I do think that at least ONE of those metal file boxes belonged to Lee Oswald, based on the quote I mentioned earlier from Walthers' WC session (where Walthers quotes Michael Paine).

Edited by David Von Pein

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My goodness, people, what a lot of rumor and innuendo!

This is the same kind of logic that convicted Lee Harvey Oswald of the JFK assassination!

IN POINT OF FACT:

(1) Just because Allen Dulles' lover, Mary Bancroft, was best friends with Ruth Paine's mother-in-law, this doesn't make Ruth Paine into a CIA Agent.

(2) Just because Ruth Paine's relatives were associated with the CIA, even *this* doesn't make Ruth Paine into a CIA Agent.

(3) The nonsense about "filing cabinets" of Communists found in Ruth Paine's garage is worth nothing until somebody shows a PHOTOGRAPH of these "filing cabinets" and nobody has ever done so. Rumors have a way of expanding indefinitely.

(4) How about some EMPIRICAL evidence, people, if you want to accuse Ruth Paine of anything at all?

(5) Like y'all, I believe Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy -- but unlike y'all I don't just go around blaming everybody in sight of being a CIA Agent, or just blaming the CIA for the JFK murder because Jim Garrison did, and its so easy, since the CIA doesn't sue for libel.

(6) If I were Ruth Paine's legal counsel, I'd advise her to start suing people for libel whenever they accuse her falsely -- then I think we'd see far fewer WILD theories about her.

(7) Ruth Paine is one of the most lied-to people of her generation. Not only did the Warren Commission lie to her -- but also Lee Harvey Oswald lied to her, Marina Oswald lied to her, and her own husband, Michael Paine, lied to her.

(8) Ruth Paine is a Quaker woman, and active in Charity. That's Ruth Paine. That sums her up.

(9) These wild theories about her being in the CIA are simply rumors until hard proof is offered (such as photographs). Please tell me you can see that; and that I'm not dealing with infinite prejudice here.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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In December of 1963, in one of the first things he did while on the WC, Allen Dulles got one of his pals in the Eastern Establishment, Frederick Osborne, to sign a declaration professing to the Paines' "religiosity, good character, and innocence in having anything to do with the assassination of President Kennedy." (Destiny Betrayed, Second Edition, p. 195)

Now, any objective detective worth his salt would have to ask the obvious question: No one was accusing them of begin involved in the assassination at that time. So why would Dulles have to do that?

As Vincent Bugliosi would say--on any other case rather than this one--this betrays "consciousness of guilt".

Do you know who the only Commissioner who had any suspicions at all about this relationship was? Yep, you guessed it. The one guy who conducted his own inquiry, Richard Russell.

How about that whopper of a lie Ruth told Jim Garrison, namely that she did not recall who her sister worked for.

LOL, ROTFLMAO

Well, Greg Parker has now put the nail in the coffin for that one. Because later, when it came out that Sylvia Hyde Hoke worked for the CIA--a fact that Ruth had amnesia about, even though she visited her a few months prior to JFK getting killed--Ruth tried to disguise this by saying words to the effect, Oh, she only designed questionnaire forms.

Yeah Ruthie, for the forerunner to the U 2 program.

BTW, she even tried to disguise where Sylvia lived so that Garrison could not find her!

Now, how aware was Allen Dulles of how dangerous his connections to the Paines (and the Baron) were? While he was on the WC, he had a personal assistant on his staff to warn him when any investigators were getting close to digging up stuff about that subject! (ibid, p. 197) Again, DA's call this consciousness of guilt. And Dulles was fully aware of this, "Dulles joked in private that the [JFK] conspiracy buffs would have had a field day if they had known...he had actually been in Dallas three weeks before the murder, that one of Mary Bancroft's childhood friends had turned out to be a landlady for Marina Oswald...and that he landlady was a well known leftist with distant ties to Alger Hiss." (ibid, p. 198)

But its not just Dulles who was in Dallas at that time. Because Talbot has now shown that, while in Rome, Bill Harvey was also flying to Dallas prior to the assassination! And we also know that Phillips confessed to his brother that he was in Dallas on the day of the assassination. And Hunt somehow cannot recall where he was that day, but Angleton knew he needed an alibi for being in big D.

Now, I guess one can argue that this was all a coincidence. That CIA officers who where stationed elsewhere all had this sudden attraction to be in Dallas at a rather fateful time. (Maybe they were all Cowboys' fans?) Or, that as Talbot demonstrates, Dulles was still holding meetings with some of them, almost two years after JFK had fired him. And that JFK was now going to be in Dallas at that same fateful time. But in my view, I think even Dulles, in one of his personal asides to a pal, would say what Carl Shoffler said to Jim Hougan about being at the Watergate hotel that night, "If I was a jury I'd convict me."

Finally, let me just mention part of the reply to the whole Walker/Oswald/ Paine nexus, one that is usually ignored. As I wrote in the 2012 version of Destiny Betrayed :

"On December 4, five days after she delivered Oswald's 'Walker Note' in Marina's book, Ruth Paine was visited by two Secret Service agents. They were returning the 'Walker Note'. since they though it was from her." (p. 203)

Edited by James DiEugenio

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Perhaps the below points can be commented on, Paul? To be sure, they should be put to rest if NOT true or possible.

(17) James DiEugenio, review of James W. Douglass', JFK and the Unspeakable (April, 2008)

...

Ruth Paine's father was William Avery Hyde. Ruth described him before the Warren Commission as an insurance underwriter. (p. 170) But there was more to it than that. Just one month after the Warren Report was issued, Mr. Hyde received a three-year government contract from the Agency for International Development (AID). He became their regional adviser for all of Latin America. As was revealed in the seventies, AID was riddled with CIA operatives. To the point that some called it an extension of the Agency. Hyde's reports were forwarded both to the State Department and the CIA. (Ibid)

Ruth Paine's older sister was Sylvia Hyde Hoke. Sylvia was living in Falls Church, Virginia in 1963. Ruth stayed with Sylvia in September of 1963 while traveling across country. (p. 170) Falls Church adjoins Langley, which was then the new headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency, a prized project of Allen Dulles. It was from Falls Church that Ruth Paine journeyed to New Orleans to pick up Marina Oswald, who she had been introduced to by George DeMohrenschildt. After she picked Marina up, she deposited her in her home in Irving, Texas. Thereby separating Marina from Lee at the time of the assassination.

Some later discoveries made Ruth's itinerary in September quite interesting. It turned out that John Hoke, Sylvia's husband, also worked for AID. And her sister Sylvia worked directly for the CIA itself. By the time of Ruth's visit, Sylvia had been employed by the Agency for eight years. In regards to this interestingly timed visit to her sister, Jim Garrison asked Ruth some pointed questions when she appeared before a grand jury in 1968. He first asked her if she knew her sister had a file that was classified at that time in the National Archives. Ruth replied she did not. In fact, she was not aware of any classification matter at all. When the DA asked her if she had any idea why it was being kept secret, Ruth replied that she didn't. Then Garrison asked Ruth if she knew which government agency Sylvia worked for. The uninquiring Ruth said she did not know. (p. 171) This is the same woman who was seen at the National Archives pouring through her files in 1976, when the House Select Committee was gearing up.

When Marina Oswald was called before the same grand jury, a citizen asked her if she still associated with Ruth Paine. Marina replied that she didn't. When asked why not, Marina stated that it was upon the advice of the Secret Service. She then elaborated on this by explaining that they had told her it would look bad if the public found out the "connection between me and Ruth and CIA." An assistant DA then asked, "In other words, you were left with the distinct impression that she was in some way connected with the CIA?" Marina replied simply, "Yes." (p. 173)

Douglass interpolates the above with the why and how of Oswald ending up on the motorcade route on 11/22/63. Robert Adams of the Texas Employment Commission testified to having called the Paine household at about the time Oswald was referred by Ruth -- via a neighbor-- to the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) for a position. He called and was told Oswald was not there. He left a message for Oswald to come down and see him since he had a position available as a cargo handler at a regional cargo airline. Interestingly, this job paid about 1/3 more than the job Oswald ended up with at the TSBD. He called again the next day to inquire about Oswald and the position again. He was now told that Lee had already taken a job. Ruth was questioned about the Adams call by the Warren Commission's Albert Jenner. At first she denied ever hearing of such a job offer. She said, "I do not recall that." (p. 172) She then backtracked, in a tactical way. She now said that she may have heard of the offer from Lee. This, of course, would seem to contradict both the Adams testimony and common sense. If Oswald was cognizant of the better offer, why would he take the lower paying job?

Her and George DeM... what an interesting pair, for sure!

OK, let's talk about James Di Eugenio's opinion here, because he's a well-known leader in the JFK CT Community. Some great ideas come from James, yet there are also problems with his theory, IMHO.

As for Michael Paine, there is already a separate FORUM thread on him, so let's move right to Ruth Paine, the topic of this thread.

(1) It is a fact that Ruth Paine's father was a socialist when he was a young man. Big deal.

(2) It is also a fact that Ruth Paine's father won a 3-year US Government contract for his organization called, "Agency for International Development" (AID), which was a Charity set up for Honduras, Guatemala and other poverty-stricken Latin American nations.

Now, I realize that Republicans regard all Foreign Aid as Communist - but this is ridiculous.

(3) Also, the notion that AID was "riddled" with CIA agents is just Hollywood-speak. Be specific. Of course the CIA would be interested in any intelligence coming through any International Agency. The innuendo and rumors, though, suggest that the CIA controlled AID, and by proxy controlled Ruth Paine.

Do you see how loosey goosey this sort of thinking becomes? This is the sort of loose logic that convicted Lee Harvey Oswald of the JFK murder. Let's do better than that, please.

(4) Ruth Paine's older sister lived in Falls Church. So what? Well, Falls Church is close to CIA Headquarters at Langley. Is proximity therefore guilt? Are all the residents of Falls Church therefore in bed with the CIA and therefore complicit in the JFK murder?

But that's where this innuendo leads. Ruth Paine visited her sister before taking Marina back to Texas with her. Who is so sloppy in logic that they see a CIA plot in Ruth Paine visiting her sister in Falls Church?

It is also quite true that Marina and Lee Oswald met George DeMohrenschildt in Dallas, and as a brilliantly educated Russian Exile, George had served with many Intelligence Communities in the USA (and in Germany before that). I agree that George was linked to the CIA. But that doesn't mean that Marina Oswald was -- or even that Lee Oswald was. George was. That's all we know.

Why did this rich, international playboy, George De Mohrenschildt bother with this poverty-stricken Southern boy and his wife who desperately needed dental work? Possibly because Marina came from Minsk, which was George's home town. So, there was a possible sentimental interest. But also, George was evidently offered a lucrative oil-exploration deal in Haiti (by the CIA, possibly) if he would babysit Lee Harvey Oswald, to ensure Lee wasn't a double-agent. Perhaps. I'm willing to speculate that far.

Notice, however, that none of this has ANYTHING to do with Ruth Hyde Paine. Nothing whatsoever.

The reason that Ruth Paine took Marina to her house from September to November 1963, was because Lee Harvey Oswald was once again out of work, and Marina Oswald was bloating pregnant, ready to give birth in early October -- and Ruth Hyde Paine was a dedicated Quaker devoted to Christian Charity.

To make something sinister out of Ruth Paine's Christian Charity is truly *unspeakable*.

(5) The fact that Ruth's father would find jobs in AID for his relatives, e.g. John Hoke, is to be expected. It's nothing special at all.

(6) I repeat -- the fact that Ruth's own sister, Sylvia Hoke, worked for the CIA -- even *this* does not prove that Ruth Paine worked for the CIA. Try to contain the innuendo, please.

(7) Ruth Paine told Jim Garrison that she didn't know that her sister worked for the CIA. I claim that Ruth Paine told the truth. CIA policy doesn't allow employees to go around telling people (even relatives) that they are CIA agents. It's against policy.

(8) Ruth Paine was a scholarly woman. She was doing her best to learn Russian, so that she could be valuable in her local community during the Cold War. Russian refugees were targets of her Charity. The fact that she was at NARA, reading about the JFK murder in 1976 when the HSCA was talking about a subpoena for her, only makes scholarly sense. You and I would have done the same thing.

(9) Marina Oswald cut off relations with Ruth Paine on the day after the JFK murder. Ruth Paine expected her friend Marina to come home after the JFK murder -- because Marina's baby was less than two months old, and all of Marina's baby things were at Ruth Paine's house.

But the Secret Service, even then, told Marina Oswald to stop all contact with Ruth Paine, because of the suspicions that any friendship she had would spill over -- and complicate the JFK Investigation.

It wasn't intelligent -- it was paranoid. But Marina Oswald did what she was told. Lies flew everywhere. Suspicion flew everywhere. Eventually, Marina Oswald and Robert Oswald had a love affair. Robert Oswald -- for some reason he refused to explain -- hated Michael and Ruth Paine with a purple passion. He refused to even let Ruth into his home for a chat. It was the Oswald's against the Paine's as far as Robert Oswald was concerned.

Marina was in the middle. The CIA had nothing to do with it.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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Paul,

To go through the above and show what you leave out, or ignore, or distort, would be a laborious exercise that would just leave us all going in circles. Which is one large complaint that Lee Farley had with you.

But to name just a few:

The Baron later confessed that he met with Oswald at the behest of the CIA. But further, Ruth then lied about how many times she met with George. (Destiny Betrayed, pgs. 194-95)

Secondly, Sylvia did not live in Falls Church at the time. Though this is what Ruth wanted Garrison to think.

Third, Ruth was accused by the Secret Service of being a CIA asset. This was what Marina told Garrison's grand jury as to why they did not want her to associate with Ruth anymore. Later on in the civil war in Nicaragua, many people there accused Ruth of being CIA. So much so, they would not associate with her. (ibid, p. 199)

Finally, what the Paines did to Oswald was not at all Christian charity.

In fact, not only did the SS think Ruth wrote the Walker letter, but the first person to accuse Oswald of being involved in the Walker shooting was Mike Paine. And this was the evening of the assassination. (Reclaiming Parkland, p. 83)

Edited by James DiEugenio

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Paul,

To go through the above and show what you leave out, or ignore, or distort, would be a laborious exercise that would just leave us all going in circles. Which is one large complaint that Lee Farley had with you.

But to name just a few:

The Baron later confessed that he met with Oswald at the behest of the CIA. But further, Ruth then lied about how many times she met with George. (Destiny Betrayed, pgs. 194-95)

Secondly, Sylvia did not live in Falls Church at the time. Though this is what Ruth wanted Garrison to think.

Third, Ruth was accused by the Secret Service of being a CIA asset. This was what Marina told Garrison's grand jury as to why they did not want her to associate with Ruth anymore. Later on in the civil war in Nicaragua, many people there accused Ruth of being CIA. So much so, they would not associate with her. (ibid, p. 199)

Finally, what the Paines did to Oswald was not at all Christian charity.

In fact, not only did the SS think Ruth wrote the Walker letter, but the first person to accuse Oswald of being involved in the Walker shooting was Mike Paine. And this was the evening of the assassination. (Reclaiming Parkland, p. 83)

James, if you don't want to prove your case carefully, then admit that -- but don't bring up that I stick to my guns as a way to cop-out your duty to prove your case.

As I say -- anybody can accuse anybody of anything -- but proving it is an entirely different matter. You want to say you have a TON of proof - but you will share "just a few". But the few you share are flimsy as a dandelion, and are mainly innuendo.

(1) You write:

> Finally, what the Paines did to Oswald was not at all

> Christian charity.

But you have no proof that Ruth Paine did ANYTHING to Oswald, except take care of his pregnant wife when he had no job and no income.

(2) You write:

> ...Ruth then lied about how many times she met with

> George. (Destiny Betrayed, pgs. 194-195)

This would be important if you can really prove it. I'll get your book ASAP and analyze it fully.

(3) You write:

> Sylvia did not live in Falls Church at the time.

> Though this is what Ruth wanted Garrison to think.

This only adds an irrelevant fact to an irrelevant guess. It's meaningless.

(4) You write:

> Ruth was accused by the Secret Service of being a CIA asset.

> This was what Marina told Garrison's grand jury as to why

> they did not want her to associate with Ruth anymore.

Even granting that the Secret Service told Marina Oswald that Ruth Paine was a CIA Agent, even *that* doesn't make it true, James. (And just why would the Secret Service *accuse* somebody of being a CIA asset?) The Secret Service likely wanted to keep Marina Oswald isolated as far as possible, to make THEIR job easier. Robert Oswald wanted to keep family troubles all in the family.

Marina's "business managers" wanted to ensure they alone profited from Marina's story. Robert was in collusion with them. So, Marina's break with Ruth Paine was messy in the extreme. It's futile to build a logical case against Ruth Paine based upon what some Secret Service agent allegedly told Marina -- or what Marina thought she understood. Very weak logic here.

(5) You write:

> Later on in the civil war in Nicaragua,

> many people there accused Ruth of being CIA.

> So much so, they would not associate with her.

> (ibid, p. 199)

Yes, that's what happened, but it doesn't prove anything at all! The trouble with the Quaker Charity in Nicaragua was that helpers of Quakers and other US Charity workers were being killed!

How could these Nicaraguan Charity workers ensure that they would not be killed? There were rumors and innuendo spread -- by people like you -- who had no evidence against Ruth Paine, but their knowledge that Ruth Paine was somehow involved with Lee Harvey Oswald fed the paranoia that Ruth Paine might be involved with the CIA.

Since many Nicaraguans were being killed off, they thought it prudent to cut off ties with Ruth Paine JUST IN CASE the rumors were true. In fact, Ruth Paine was very upset that some of her best friends were being killed off, and she even AGREED that she had to leave Nicaragua, just in order to make her friends more comfortable and less paranoid!

Again -- it is UNSPEAKABLE to accuse a Quaker involved in Charity of fomenting Evil. UNSPEAKABLE.

(6) You write:

> In fact, not only did the SS think Ruth wrote

> the Walker letter, but the first person to accuse

> Oswald of being involved in the Walker shooting

> was Mike Paine. And this was the evening of the

> assassination. (Reclaiming Parkland, p. 83)

Well, James, I will not argue with this for three reasons: (1) this is a Ruth Paine thread, and there is a separate thread in this FORUM about Michael Paine; (2) I believe that the Walker shooting is the key to the JFK murder; and (3) I believe that Michael Paine knew far more about the Walker shooting than he ever divulged to the Warren Commission or to Ruth Paine or to anybody.

I will get your book, DESTINY BETRAYED (1992), James, to review your statements about Ruth Paine here. I hope you're willing to defend your statements with facts, instead of ad hominem.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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So being a Quaker makes you charitable? You keep pointing out that Ruth was a Quaker, as if that proves something about her character. I suppose Nixon was full of Christian charity too.

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So being a Quaker makes you charitable? You keep pointing out that Ruth was a Quaker, as if that proves something about her character. I suppose Nixon was full of Christian charity too.

Surely not all Quakers are charitable, but some are. Ruth Paine took care of Marina Oswald when she was in dire need.

(1) Lee Harvey Oswald was packed up to leave for New Orleans on 24 April 1963, having lost his job in Dallas. He planned to leave Marina Oswald, pregnant, alone with baby June in their Dallas apartment with a bus ticket to New Orleans to meet him there only after had a job and an apartment. The Oswalds had no phone, so Marina was to wait for a letter from Lee.

(1.1) Whenever Marina got Lee's letter, she was to pack up all the baby things (or leave them behind), and then this pregnant woman, who couldn't speak English, was to get on a Greyhound bus with her one year old baby in Dallas, perhaps with baby's crib, stroller and luggage, and travel to New Orleans alone with her baby. That was Lee's plan.

(1.2) Ruth Paine, when she learned this, realized this was a poverty-stricken plan. Ruth immediately offered her own place for Marina to wait for Lee's message by telephone, not mail. That way, pregnant Marina wouldn't be alone, while waiting, and could plan for pre-natal care in Dallas, while waiting for Lee to get a job in NOLA, however long that might take. Further, after Lee's eventual call, Ruth offered to drive Marina to New Orleans in her own station wagon. All of this was free Christian Charity.

It's amazing to me how people try to look down on Ruth Paine.

(2) Later, on 20 September 1963, when Marina visited the Oswalds in New Orleans at the end of her own two-month summer vacation, visiting relatives back east, she learned again that Lee Oswald had again lost his job!

(2.1) Lee didn't want to leave Marina with his aunt and uncle Murret, but didn't have an alternate plan, except that he (lied and) told Ruth that he was going to Houston to look for work.

(2.2) Ruth again volunteered -- with Christian Charity -- to drive Marina and Junie to her house in Texas, and to care for Marina, who was so pregnant she could have had her baby anytime. (As it was, they would wait four more weeks for the birth of Rachel.) Ruth would arrange for Marina's pre-natal and post-natal care at Parkland Hospital, and would even give blood in case Marina needed it. Ruth would pay for all of Marina's food and care while in Texas "waiting" for Lee to find work in "Houston".

Again, this was all free of charge.

It boggles my mind why anybody would want to impute Evil Intentions to this Christian heart.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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