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Well, Pat, Nixon was never a real hero of mine (although I supported him) but Goldwater and Reagan certainly were. At least unlike John you do not try to tie me to Robert Welch.

But do not sell shorty Nixon's record on civil rights.

I think a strong case can be made that Nixon did more for civil rights in the 1950s than JFK did. And I believe that Nixon appointed the first black person to a cabinet post. The first black ever elected to the US Senate was a Republican (as I am sure you know). And during Nixon's presidency George Schultz worked hard to ensure schools compliance with the "Brown" case.

But I do regret that the GOP, the party of Lincoln, has not done more to actively attract blacks to the party. I always liked Jack Kemp because that was one of his concerns.

However, I do hope (expect?) that the first black President will be a Republican.

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Does anyone know what became of Korth? I recently read where LBJ commissioned a report in 67 on the feasibility of handing over a big chunk of Navy billing to General Dynamics, etc.. The report declared it would be cheaper for the U.S. to shut down the Navy construction yards and have all sea vessels built by private industry. He enacted the recommendations of this report , a policy that is still in effect, despite the mass corruption exposed year in year out.

I'm wondering if Korth didn't have something to do with this. Did he go to General Dynamics after his downfall? Most former Secs of Navy find a nice cushy MIC job somewhere.

Without digging for all the information in order to be "absolutely factual", Korth took up residence with a lady of considerable "social" standing.

Interestingly enough, her taste ran into "Russian" art and antiquities.

If recalled correctly, he never remarried.

However, his daughter "Verita" if recalled correctly, married into the political arena and became quite well know.

Verita Korth had served as the "Queen" of the Azalea Festival in 1963(if recalled correctly), in DC.

This "Queenship" included the daughters of many other politically well known persons prior to Verita Korth's reign, as well as afterwards.

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I had not read that Korth left his wife in November of 1963. The idea that he did it to protect her is, I am sure, speculative but nonetheless most interesting. (Tim Gratz)

Tim,

In 1965, Korth's wife filed suit for divorce alleging cruel treatment.

FWIW

James

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James, do you agree that he left her in November of 1963? Did he ever return before she filed for divorce

Hi Tim,

Yes, he did leave her in November of 1963. They had been married 29 years. I don't know if he ever returned before she filed for divorce.

James

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Under the old Wisconsin divorce laws it was a ground for divorce if the parties had lived apart for over a year. Then neither party would have to prove cruel treatment. Although of couse abandonment of the wife by the husband could certainly be considered cruel treatment.

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Under the old Wisconsin divorce laws it was a ground for divorce if the parties had lived apart for over a year. Then neither party would have to prove cruel treatment. Although of couse abandonment of the wife by the husband could certainly be considered cruel treatment.

And in some cases it could be argued that staying with the wife is cruel treatment. :o

James

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Well, Pat, Nixon was never a real hero of mine (although I supported him) but Goldwater and Reagan certainly were. At least unlike John you do not try to tie me to Robert Welch.

But do not sell shorty Nixon's record on civil rights.

I think a strong case can be made that Nixon did more for civil rights in the 1950s than JFK did. And I believe that Nixon appointed the first black person to a cabinet post. The first black ever elected to the US Senate was a Republican (as I am sure you know). And during Nixon's presidency George Schultz worked hard to ensure schools compliance with the "Brown" case.

But I do regret that the GOP, the party of Lincoln, has not done more to actively attract blacks to the party. I always liked Jack Kemp because that was one of his concerns.

However, I do hope (expect?) that the first black President will be a Republican.

Tim, Nixon was not big on civil rights. He went along with the tide, that's all. On the political level, he was an extremely divisive man who ardently sought the votes of Southern racists, Wallace supporters. His 1968 campaign was built around his getting tough on crime; this was thinly veiled racism, modeled somewhat on Reagan's 1966 campaign in California. He was an opportunist playing on the suburan white "silent" majority's fear of urban blacks. It worked. Due to some rulings by the Supreme Court, however, he was put in a bad position on the busing issue and was vulnerable to attacks from the right in 72, one of the reasons many suspect he was somehow behiond the Wallace shooting, (with your help??) Sorry, I couldn't resist.* I believe Nixon's record of forcing out Fortas and trying to force out Douglas and building a court around men like Rehnquist, who was a segregationist and lied about it before congress, reveals Nixon's true beliefs.

*Per Tim's request, I am clarifying that this was an inside joke in reference to an earlier thread. I do not believe Tim a knowing conspirator in any known murder plot.

Edited by Pat Speer

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Pat I would certainly like (and expect) you to post a clarification that I had nothing to do with the attempted murder of George Wallace.

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Korth was one of the ambitious young Texans who were swept up into Lyndon Johnson's ambit during Johnson's 30's and 40's search for loyal homegrown talent. Caro's portrait of the collective angst of some of this group during a pivotal time for Johnson ( the vote of the State Executive Committee of the Texas Democrat party which would decide whether Johnson's fraudulant win over Coke Stevenson would be certified by the party) is telling: "Standing in the ballroom that evening were Jake Pickle and Raymond Buck and Fred Korth and John Connally, men who had, some of them many years before, tied their fortunes to Lyndon Johnson's star. These men would remember their feelings until they died. 'I was leaning up against a pillar in the back listening and trying to make tabulations but my heart was pounding so much that I could hardly write,' Pickle recalls. 'Because I knew what was involved.' " (Means of Ascent, p.345)

Korth, who was present (along with Cliff Carter) at the June, 1963 meeting at which President Kennedy decided to visit Texas was, as has been noted, in the middle of the McCllellan subcommittee investigation of the awarding of the TFX contract. After the close of subcommittee hearings on Nov. 20, 1963, the chairman stated that further testimony would be forthcoming "next week." Business Week predicted that Korth would be the next witness. Peter Scott notes drily that "the hearings promised for 'next week' were not resumed until 1969, after Johnson had left office, and Korth never had to testify." (Deep Politics, p.221)

Before Korth got involved with Johnson and his climb to power, he attended George Washington law school. A classmate of his (in 1934) was O'Wighton Delk Simpson. Simpson would drop out of George Washington and embark upon a long, strange career that featured a rapid rise to the rank of Lieutenant Colonel in the Air Force, an early 1950's stint in Air Force Intelligence, a headlong plunge into the world of Air Force "protocol," and a position with Martin-Marietta following his 1960 Air Force retirement. His closest friend through the 60's, and throughout his life, was Air Force Col. Howard Burris, Lyndon Johnson's vice-presidential military advisor. Colonel Simpson was on Johnson's Inaugural Committee in 1965. In a quest for an ambassadorship in the mid-'60's, one of his most fervent boosters was Fred Korth, who put together a pamphlet outlining Simpson's qualifications for the position.

Simpson's son, Delk Jr., claimed to anyone who would listen that he had overheard the Colonel speak of his role in moving money from Haiti in 1963; money that had something to do with the assassination of President Kennedy. Subsequently, according to an affadavit executed by Delk Jr's one-time girlfriend, Didi Hess, Simpson admitted to her that the essence of Delk Jr's story was true.

This is a bare-bones version of a very long, winding story. It has been given very little play within the research community, and is totally unknown outside the research community. There is much more to be said about the story and its implications. After exploring it for many years, I have not come to a firm conclusion. There is much that we don't know, and too much of what IS currently known is less clear than it should be. Nonetheless, it is, in my opinion, well worth continued examination.

I think that it may well prove fruitful to hone in a bit more on some of the people who moved in the shadows of the more well-known backers of LBJ; people like Korth, Simpson, Burris, and D. H. Byrd, for instance.

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Without digging for all the information in order to be "absolutely factual", Korth took up residence with a lady of considerable "social" standing.

Interestingly enough, her taste ran into "Russian" art and antiquities.

If recalled correctly, he never remarried.

However, his daughter "Verita" if recalled correctly, married into the political arena and became quite well know.

Verita Korth had served as the "Queen" of the Azalea Festival in 1963(if recalled correctly), in DC.

This "Queenship" included the daughters of many other politically well known persons prior to Verita Korth's reign, as well as afterwards.

Not exactly. Korth "dated" said lady but never "took up residence." In fact, "dated" is probably not the best description in that he acted more like a social escort. After her death, he acted as the co-executor of her estate and served on the board of her charitable trust until his death.

Korth DID re-marry, in 1980.

Verita Korth did NOT marry into the political arena. She did marry a man who would become quite succesful in the financial field, but after her death in 1969.

Edited by Thomas Cole

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I have managed to get a copy of William Proxmire's book, Report from Wasteland: America's Military-Industrial Complex. It includes details of how the Suite 8F Group worked (although he does not mention the group by name). Proxmire clearly explains the importance of the chairmen of the key Senate committees. Interestingly, he does not report on the role played by LBJ in this (as Majority Leader he decided on who became chairmen of these committees). In fact, the book only mentions LBJ twice. Like most figures of this period, Proxmire appeared to be frightened of LBJ. There is a good section in the book on the TFX scandal:

Roswell L. Gilpatric, who served as Deputy Secretary of Defense from 1961 to 1964. (He was) a member of the law firm of Cravath, Swaine, and Moore, when he became deputy to McNamara in 1961, he and his firm had represented General Dynamics in the period 1958-61. Gilpatric's fees had exceeded $100,000. Although he left his firm, he continued to receive some $20,000 a year in severance pay while at the Pentagon. In the meantime, Cravath, Swaine, and Moore continued to represent General Dynamics.

Like Packard, Deputy Secretary of Defense Gilpatric had been a part of the military-industrial-law firm complex for years. He had served as Under Secretary of the Air Force in 1951-53 and as chairman of the Board of Trustees of the nonprofit Aerospace Corporation that President Eisenhower established to conduct studies on major missile systems.

The storm and furor over Gilpatric's relationships were raised during the TFX investigation. It was shown that he had taken a direct part in the negotiations over the highly controversial contract, which went to General Dynamics. He was involved in discussions on the contract. He signed the letter turning down Senator McClellan's request that the formal signing with General Dynamics be delayed.

Fred Korth, Secretary of the Navy in 1962, is another case in point. He had a past close relationship with the Defense Department and with the defense contractors and played a questionable part in the TFX controversy as well.

His official Pentagon biography states that he rose from a second lieutenant to lieutenant-colonel in the Air Transport Command during World War II. After private law practice in Fort Worth, in 1951 he became Department Counselor, Department of the Army. In 1952, he was made an Assistant Secretary of the Army. He returned to Fort Worth where he was elected executive vice president and director of the Continental National Bank and, later, became its president. He was a director of the Bell Aerospace Corporation and active in the Navy League of the United States.

Korth succeeded John B. Connally, Jr., another Texan from Fort Worth, as Secretary of the Navy. When Korth was approved by the Senate Armed Services Committee, he stated that he had resigned as president of the Fort Worth Continental National Bank. But he retained his stock valued at $160,000 in the bank and told the Committee he intended to return to the bank when he left public office. Only a few months before he was appointed, Korth had approved a $400,000 loan from his old bank to the General Dynamics Corporation. The Convair plant of General Dynamics was in Fort Worth. Although $400,000 may not appear to be a large sum for the largest defense contractor in the country to borrow, it was, nonetheless, two-thirds of the $600,000 loan limit allowed the small Continental National Bank.

As Secretary of the Navy, Korth made the decision about the TFX. The Pentagon's Source Selection Board had recommended that the contract go to Boeing. Korth overruled the Board and recommended General Dynamics. Along with Secretary McNamara and Air Force Secretary Eugene Zuckert, Navy Secretary Korth signed the five-page memorandum of justification.

The question of a conflict of interest was raised directly with the justice Department by Senator John J. Williams, of Delaware. In fairness to both Korth and Gilpatric, the Justice Department wrote that in their opinion there was no law violation in either Korth's or Gilpatric's role in the TFX contract.

Later, Korth was so indiscreet as to write letters promoting the business of the Continental National Bank on Navy Department stationery. He resigned shortly after this matter was drawn to the attention of Attorney General Robert Kennedy by Senator McClellan.

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Well, John, LBJ was a Democrat; as was Bobby Baker; and Korth, etc., etc. As was Sam Giancana and Johnny Rosselli.

There is at least some evidence that might connect these individuals to the assassination. Moreover, I am not sure anyone was necessarily claiming Korth himself was a conspirator as much as that his connections could suggest he had acquired possible knowledge that explained his unusual separation from his wife in November of 1963.

The evidence connecting Dillon or Buckley is simply non-existent. As I said before, there is as much evidence connecting Captain Kangaroo as there is Buckley. Ditto for Dillon. You yourself seem to have admitted that there was no evidence to suggest any involvement by Buckley.

My second response, however, is that you seem to have forgotten that I did express interest in the possible involvement of a far right-wing young man from Dallas, who was, I believe, a Republican. Did you conveniently forget that?

Should the evidence show a Republican did it I would gladly participant in the man's execution.

It does kind of remind me of an old saying, however: I never said all Democrats are horse-thieves; it'sjust that all horse-thieves are Democrats. (Of course I say that in jest but I think history indicates there was far more corruption and racism in the Democrat Party than in the GOP.)

Exactly what PROOF do you have that Giancana was a Democrat? The same for Rosselli? They are mobsters so they must be Democrats? Yet another one of your barrels stuffed with the residue from a male bovine.

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I have managed to get a copy of William Proxmire's book, Report from Wasteland: America's Military-Industrial Complex. It includes details of how the Suite 8F Group worked (although he does not mention the group by name). Proxmire clearly explains the importance of the chairmen of the key Senate committees. Interestingly, he does not report on the role played by LBJ in this (as Majority Leader he decided on who became chairmen of these committees). In fact, the book only mentions LBJ twice. Like most figures of this period, Proxmire appeared to be frightened of LBJ. There is a good section in the book on the TFX scandal:

John, anything on politics by Senator Proxmire, Supreme Court Justice Willam O. Douglas or Senator J. William Fulbright will be of interest to you. They were trying to change the Government from the inside out, when so many students were trying to change it from the outside in. Fulbright's The Pentagon Propaganda Machine is particularly insightful. It question's the military's misappropriation of funds allocated for the nation's defense, for the purpose of propagandizng the public on the necessity of a large nuclear arsenal, and a continued war in Vietnam. It was basically taking the money earmarked for Johnson's Great Society and spending it on campaign ads for Johnson's foreign policy. The military was spending millions on propaganda films, pushing Johnson's and then Nixon's policies on Vietnam. These films were provided to television stations free of cost and were often played late at night a la today's infomercials. Fulbright questions whether the military has the right to lobby its own government, using funds allocated by that government for the nation's defense. He is absolutely right. I remember having these same thoughts as a kid after sitting through an extended presentation in my school auditorium ...who's paying for this Marine Corps Jazz Band? Why? Why does the military need us to think they're "hip"? Fulbright deals with these questions, and his answers didn't win him any friends at the Pentagon.

Edited by Pat Speer

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