Martin Blank Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Bill Shelley of the TSBD staff is circled in red In these photos of Harvey passing out FPCC leaflets in New Orleans. So what gives? Shelley also appears in several other photos of the leafletting. It was an a-ha moment for me this is all headed somewhere and I promise it will end with a bang and not a whimper. so bear with me. thanks Edited November 7, 2015 by Martin Blank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 So if Bill Shelley was there, and David Morales was there as per Thomas Graves posts, what have we here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) So if Bill Shelley was there, and David Morales was there as per Thomas Graves posts, what have we here? Thanks for the support, Paul B. ! Bear in mind that we're talking about two different Oswald leafletting incidents which happened one week apart in New Orleans in August, 1963. My "David Morales" was caught on film at the first one (August 9; the one at which Oswald and Bringuier were arrested at), and Martin Blank's "Bill Shelley" (or perhaps Gordon Novell??) was caught on film at the second one (August 16; in front of the Trade Mart). Interesting stuff indeed... --Tommy Edited November 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) So if Bill Shelley was there, and David Morales was there as per Thomas Graves posts, what have we here? Thanks for the support, Paul B. ! Bear in mind that we're talking about two different Oswald leafletting incidents which happened one week apart in New Orleans in August, 1963. My "David Morales" was caught on film at the first one (August 9; the one at which Oswald and Bringuier were arrested at), and Martin Blank's "Bill Shelley" (or perhaps Gordon Novell??) was caught on film at the second one (August 16; in front of the Trade Mart). Interesting stuff indeed... --Tommy I am speaking of the August 16, 1963, incident. The fact that there is another incident is helpful but immaterial. All that matters is that Harvey was not hired to work at the TSBD until October 15, 1963, with his first official day of work on October 16, 1963. My question then is what was Harvey doing with William Shelley, six months or so before he would presumably have met him. Shelley worked in a supervisory role at the TSBD and had done so for almost 20 years. At the time of the assassination, he was supervising an outside work crew that was installing new flooring on the building's sixth floor. It might be useful to follow the threads that Shelley's presence weaves throughout events connected to JFK's assassination. He claimed to have left the TSBD and walked a short way and back with Billy Lovely (whom I am starting to think is some kind of code word and maybe not a real person or maybe one or more persons or maybe a communications channel). Anyway, this is him and Lovelady walking together. down the Elm Street Extension, I would guess. Here he is being taken in by the DPD following the shooting That's Danny Arce to his right in the first picture. All you need to know about Arce is to be found in this collage. remember as well that Fritz's notes of his interrogation of Harvey: Claims 2nd floor coke when Off came in To 1st floor had lunch Out with Bill Shelley in front Police evidence proves that both Lee Harvey Oswald and Bill Lovelady were at the doorway at the same time when Kennedy was shot, because they both identified Bill Shelley, who was standing in the doorway with them. Mr. BALL - Who was with you? Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley and Sarah Stanton, and right behind me... Mr. BALL - What was that last name? Mr. LOVELADY - Stanton. Mr. BALL - What is the first name? Mr. LOVELADY - Bill Shelley. Mr. BALL - And Stanton's first name? Mr. LOVELADY - Miss Sarah Stanton. Mr. BALL - Did you stay on the steps Mr. LOVELADY - Yes. Mr. BALL - Were you there when the President's motorcade went by Mr. LOVELADY – Right. Say what. Did Lovelady almost say something no one wanted to hear? That leaves us at the beginning of the crime and here in Jack Ruby's Carousel Club are Lee Oswald, William Shelley and the tan jacket man. (My apologies but it's hard to find these pictures without circles and such on them.) that's all i know Edited November 7, 2015 by Martin Blank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Neal Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Last time I looked at this photo, it was in the midst of a "Is this Shelley or a detective?" debate. Has a consensus been reached that this IS Bill Shelley? Thanks for any info... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Roy Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Devil's Advocate: This business of identifying people from old photos is a highly imprecise, speculative, wishful thinking sort of thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Stephen - I agree to a point. But one of the things that has happened over the years is that practically no identifications through photos done by lay investigators has passed muster to officialdom. Somehow they have all been mistaken. To me that in itself is suspicious. The Bill Shelley photos are among the most convincing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Is it really a surprise that the Radical Right was affiliated with LHO in New Orleans? Is it really a surprise that David Morales (CIA rogue) was affiliated with LHO in New Orleans? This has been well-established now, by Jeff Caufield's new book, IMHO. Insofar as this is really a picture of Bill Shelley of the Dallas TSBD staff -- who would be surprised to learn that Bill Shelley was also a member of the "Friends of Walker" in Dallas? Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Mr. Trejo Please put me back on block. thanks. i do not wish to engage with you on any subject, any place, any time Edited November 7, 2015 by Martin Blank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Neal Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Mr. Trejo Please put me back on block. thanks. Martin, A polite request to be put on BLOCK... ROTFL!!! Thanks for providing "My Mandatory Laugh of the Day!" Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Roy Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 David Morales (CIA rogue) was affiliated with LHO in New Orleans? This has been well-established now, by Jeff Caufield's new book, IMHO. What page?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Well, I wasn't talking to Martin - but to the others here. I was only agreeing that Bill Shelley is a person of interest, and I'd like to know if he was a member of the Friends of Walker in Dallas. We keep looking for the person who manipulated events to get LHO a job at the TSBD. If Bill Shelley was a member of the Friends of Walker, then I think we have a serious candidate. Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) David Morales (CIA rogue) was affiliated with LHO in New Orleans? This has been well-established now, by Jeff Caufield's new book, IMHO. What page?? Sorry, my cut-and-paste got in the way. What's been established by Jeff Caufield's new book is that the Radical Right was affiliated with LHO in New Orleans. The reason It should be no surprise that David Morales (CIA rogue) was affiliated with LHO in New Orleans, is because of the writings by Joan Mellen. It was in her book (not Caufield's) that David Morales was implied as conspiring with Guy Banister. Her book, Farewell to Justice (2005), made two points: (1) that the Radical Right wing under Guy Banister met at Carlos Marcello's Town and Country Motel outside of New Orleans in mid-1963 to discuss the fact that JFK was secretly seeking a dialogue with Fidel Castro through a mutual friend; and (2) that only the CIA knew about this JFK secret. Now -- how did Guy Banister's people get ahold of this CIA secret? It could only be through a CIA Rogue. But there are only two CIA Rogues who have confessed to a role in the JFK murder, namely, Howard Hunt and David Morales. Of these two CIA Rogues, only David Morales had access to this high-level information about Cuba, because of his active role in the CIA Cuba Desk. Therefore, based on these two facts by Joan Mellen, I surmise that David Morales was part of the plot to sheep-dip LHO in New Orleans. The clincher, IMHO, is the book by Bill Simpich, State Secret (2014) which suggests David Morales was the guy in Mexico City who impersonated LHO calling the USSR Embassy over the heavily tapped Cuban Consulate line, and asking for KGB agent Valerie Kostikov. The CIA knew very well that this was a Mole who did the Impersonation. They started a Mole Hunt. But they never found the guy. Simpich thinks it was David Morales. If so -- then we have two bits of evidence to portray David Morales as an assistant to Guy Banister in sheep-dipping LHO in New Orleans as well as in Mexico City. Now -- if we can link Bill Shelley to General Walker in Dallas (just as Jeff Caufield has already linked Guy Banister with General Walker) then we have something brand new. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited November 7, 2015 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Well, I wasn't talking to Martin - but to the others here. I was only agreeing that Bill Shelley is a person of interest, and I'd like to know if he was a member of the Friends of Walker in Dallas. We keep looking for the person who manipulated events to get LHO a job at the TSBD. If Bill Shelley was a member of the Friends of Walker, then I think we have a serious candidate. Regards, --Paul Trejo well i'm here so you must be talking to me, too; it would be rude to ignore someone who started the thread and speak only to those who cannot speak for him. very poor manner. besides you unblocked me so you must be interested in reading my posts. as far as carrying on any sort of discourse with you i would prefer not to. so i am asking you to please block me again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Last time I looked at this photo, it was in the midst of a "Is this Shelley or a detective?" debate. Has a consensus been reached that this IS Bill Shelley? Thanks for any info... Tom, Yes, that's definitely Bill Shelley. Detective C.W. Brown is back to the left on the sidewalk, outside of this particular cropped frame, and I believe Detective Senkel is hovering somewhere in the background, also out of this cropped frame. In case you didn't know, Shelley was photographically "captured" that afternoon (wearing tie but sans coat), drinking coffee just inside the TSBD front doors (with some guys who look like reporters). FWIW, I wonder if Martin Blank's "Shelley" in the Oswald-in-front-of-the-New-Orleans-Trade-Mart-on-August-16th doesn't look too young to be the William H. Shelley who was filmed / photographed in Dallas on November 22nd? In his testimony, Shelley said that he had worked "in defense plants a little during the (2nd World) War," and then started working at the TSBD on October 29, 1945. So I'm guessing that he was born around 1925, making him 38 years old in 1963. Question: Does Martin Blank's "Shelley" (in New Orleans) look like the fissure-faced 38 year old we see in Dallas, or more like a "peaches 'n cream" faced twenty-eight-year-old? --Tommy Edited November 7, 2015 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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