New Poll: Are Shelley and / or Lovelady Walking Down Elm St. Extension in this Synchronized Couch - Darnell GIF?

[Denis Morissette]

Maybe a Lovelady double? 🤔😁

[Tony Krome]

22 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Well, then who is the other balding guy who took Lovelady's place on the steps immediately after Lovelady left??

You can see him here, standing right in front of Prayer Man, talking face-to-face with the Girl in All Black:

 

With all due respect, I don't see that at all.

I see veiled women simply stepping up the stairs towards prayer mans position

The backs of veils is what I see, and in some still frames, one can imagine a face.

If you believe that is a man facing the camera, you also have to believe that he steps up the stairs backwards just like the Woman in White is stepping up the stairs forwards at exactly the same time

That whole crowd on the left side of the stairs, in my opinion, are in the process of heading back inside the building

[Sandy Larsen]

Locating Gloria Calvery in the Zapruder film is easy once you know a number of facts about her, where she was standing during the motorcade, and who she was standing with.

From their FBI affidavits, we know that Gloria Calvery was standing with three of her workmates during the motorcade... Carol Reed, Karen Hicks, and Karen Westbrook. Here's a photo of all of them, taken in the TSBD around Christmas time:

 

(Note that Carol Hughes stayed in the building during the motorcade.)

Notice how tall Gloria Calvery and Karen Westbrook are compared to the other two women they were with. And of the two tall women, one is slender and the other is wide/big. So what we need to do is look for four young white women standing together, with two of them being noticeably taller than the other two, and with one of the tall women being wide/big.

The FBI has made this easy for us because they asked the four women where they were standing during the motorcade. I don't recall now their specific answers, but I do recall that what they said corresponds roughly with a location not too far from the Stemmons sign.

With that criteria at hand, let's look for the four women in this Z-film frame:

 

 

We find them within a matter of seconds. (Well, I did.) The only group of four women standing together, where one is tall and slender and another is tall and wide, it the one pointed to by the red arrow. That one is Gloria Calvery (tall and wide), the two to her left are Carol Reed and Carol Hicks (not necessarily in that order), and the one to their left is Karen Westbrook (tall and slender). Interestingly they are all wearing headscarves.

If anybody can find another group of four women who match the known criteria, I'm all ears. (Though I'm confidant nobody can.)

And therefore we identify the woman pointed to by the red arrow as Gloria Calvery.

In my next post I will show where Gloria Calvery is in the Darnell clip, and will explain how we know that.

 

[Denis Morissette]

I’m not disagreeing on the 4 ladies in the Z-film. In the second photo in the 6FM photo you will see the ladies about to leave the building. Carol Reed is wearing a white coat like one of the ladies in the Z film. And is Calvery holding her scarf in her hands? Same color as in the Z-film?

[Sandy Larsen]

The following graphic shows where Gloria Calvery and one of her workmates -- either Karan Hicks or Carol Reed -- were about thirty seconds after the shots. The inset, of course, is a frame from the Z-film, and the main image is a frame from the Darnell/Couch clip. The color was removed from the Z-frame in order to make comparisons easier.

 

 

How do I know that these are the same women? Well, I'm not going to go through the whole process of our (mine and Tommy Graves) discovery, as it was covered in multiple threads years ago. But I will describe what we did.

To begin with, note that one of Gloria Calvery's companions is wearing all white, including the headscarf. I call her Woman in All White.

The first step was to determine whether or not there was more than one woman in all white. I did that because, if it turned out there was only one woman in all white (in grayscale), during the procession, then that meant that the one we see in Darnell/Couch must be the same as the one we know to be Gloria Calvery's companion in the Z-frame.

I searched through numerous photos and frames looking for women in all white. I think that Robin Unger must have looked too because he found one woman who at first looked like she was wearing all white, but then we discovered she wasn't in another frame of that film.

Ultimately we determined that there was just one woman in all white, including headscarf, during the motorcade. And so it was established that in all likelihood the Woman in All White seen in the Darnell/Couch frame was indeed one of Gloria Calvery's companions.

The next step was to look for a woman in Darnell/Couch matching the Gloria Calvery in Zapruder. Right away we saw that the woman standing right next to Woman in All White matched Gloria Calvery... at least from the waist up. As anybody can see, she is wearing a dark top and has either a dark headscarf or dark hair.

Two questions remained. First, was this woman wearing a headscarf, and second, was this woman wearing a lighter skirt like Gloria Calvery was.

I have software that allows me to single step though animated GIF (video) frames. So I stepped slowly through the frames hoping that a view of the girl's bottomwear would open up. (Not to take all the credit myself, Tommy did the same.) We got very lucky in that a small number of frames do show the girl's bottomwear. And they DO match Gloria Calvery's skirt!

The one thing we could never do is determine if the girl in Darnell/Couch was wearing a dark headscarf, or just had dark hair. However, we had a lucky break that compensated for that deficit. In you single step though Darnell/Couch, you will discover that not only is Woman in All White (Karan Hicks or Carol Reed) still climbing the stairs, but she begins to pull up on the arm of our tentative Gloria Calvery.

One thing I forgot to mention is that it is clear in the Darnell/Couch clip that Lovelady is talking to the woman we believe is Gloria Calvery. He even bends down toward her, probably so he could hear her better. So there was our tentative Gloria Calvery talking to Lovelady, and her companion (Karan Hicks or Carol Reed) pulling on her arm, trying to get her to go up the steps with her.

This to me was nearly as good a find as determining whether the tentative Gloria Calvery was wearing a scarf or not. Because odds are that Karan Hicks or Carol Reed was pulling on the arm of one of their motorcade companions. And of those three companions, only Gloria Calvery's colors (shades of gray, rather) match.

And therefore we conclude that the girl we tentatively identified as Gloria Calvery is indeed Gloria Calvery.

And Bart says I have nothing!  Ha!

 

[Sandy Larsen]

2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:

With all due respect, I don't see that at all.

I see veiled women simply stepping up the stairs towards prayer mans position

The backs of veils is what I see, and in some still frames, one can imagine a face.

If you believe that is a man facing the camera, you also have to believe that he steps up the stairs backwards just like the Woman in White is stepping up the stairs forwards at exactly the same time

That whole crowd on the left side of the stairs, in my opinion, are in the process of heading back inside the building

 

That isn't somebody walking up the stairs. And it isn't some balding guy walking up backwards. That is a balding guy facing the camera who has stooped down momentarily as the lady in black (Gloria Calvery) is talking to him. Presumably so he can hear her.

And BTW they are not all going up the steps. Lovelady (the balding guy) is just rising from a stooping position, as I said. Gloria Calvery isn't walking at all. Only the Woman in White (Karan Hicks or Carol Reed) is walking up.

If you look at the following frame you can barely make out Lovelady's eyes and mouth. (A number of us could when we examined this years ago. Not just me.)

 

 

I can even make out the hair above his left ear. But it's easier make out his hair as he turns his head to his left and back:

 

 

 

Edited March 18, 2019 by Sandy Larsen

[Guest]

What was that again about being in denial Sandy Larsen?

[John Iacoletti]

I'm thinking the woman on the far left of the Christmas photo who looks kinda pregnant might be Carolyn Arnold.

There are several assumptions in Sandy's argument about Calvery though:

1. That watching the motorcade together means standing shoulder to shoulder in a row (they all said they were about halfway between Houston and the Triple underpass, BTW).
2. That seeing no other "woman in white" in known footage must mean that there was only one in Dealey Plaza.
3. That woman-in-white necessarily continued to accompany tall-and-wide woman after leaving the Elm street curb.
4. That pulling on somebody's arm (if that's really happening) means that she is your companion.

[Pat Speer]

Karen Westbrook ID'ed herself in the film, and said she is the woman with the blue scarf half-covered by the sign, and that Calvery is to her left and then Carol Reed. If she is correct, and there's no reason to doubt her on this, then the tall dark-haired woman (other than Westbrook)  in the picture posted by Sandy is probably Reed, correct?

 

On 3/17/2019 at 9:08 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

Locating Gloria Calvery in the Zapruder film is easy once you know a number of facts about her, where she was standing during the motorcade, and who she was standing with.

From their FBI affidavits, we know that Gloria Calvery was standing with three of her workmates during the motorcade... Carol Reed, Karen Hicks, and Karen Westbrook. Here's a photo of all of them, taken in the TSBD around Christmas time:

 

(Note that Carol Hughes stayed in the building during the motorcade.)

Notice how tall Gloria Calvery and Karen Westbrook are compared to the other two women they were with. And of the two tall women, one is slender and the other is wide/big. So what we need to do is look for four young white women standing together, with two of them being noticeably taller than the other two, and with one of the tall women being wide/big.

The FBI has made this easy for us because they asked the four women where they were standing during the motorcade. I don't recall now their specific answers, but I do recall that what they said corresponds roughly with a location not too far from the Stemmons sign.

With that criteria at hand, let's look for the four women in this Z-film frame:

 

 

We find them within a matter of seconds. (Well, I did.) The only group of four women standing together, where one is tall and slender and another is tall and wide, it the one pointed to by the red arrow. That one is Gloria Calvery (tall and wide), the two to her left are Carol Reed and Carol Hicks (not necessarily in that order), and the one to their left is Karen Westbrook (tall and slender). Interestingly they are all wearing headscarves.

If anybody can find another group of four women who match the known criteria, I'm all ears. (Though I'm confidant nobody can.)

And therefore we identify the woman pointed to by the red arrow as Gloria Calvery.

In my next post I will show where Gloria Calvery is in the Darnell clip, and will explain how we know that.

 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by Pat Speer

[Guest]

There is plenty to doubt her on this. As she stands next to women who were not part of her 'posse' that already goes against her own statement. Secondly Westbrook has been proven to be wrong on a few issues during that 6th fl. interview.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Bart Kamp