The Real Ruth and Michael Paine

[Sandy Larsen]

Wow! You should always show this document to Harvey and Lee skeptics, Jim.

Do you know why the drivers license was there? Was it an expired and surrendered license that been stored in the state's files? I don't know why the government would do that.

[Sandy Larsen]

I think you're right, Sandy, that in both cases the guy Taylor believed was “Oswald” was a passenger, not the driver. That was my mistake.

There is, however, ample other evidence that American born LEE Harvey Oswald could drive a car and, in fact, drove Ruth Paine's car. For example, for week after week in the summer of 1963, much of the time when Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald was in New Orleans, LEE Oswald had his hair cut at Cliff Shasteen's barber shop in suburban Dallas.

Mr. JENNER. You have a distinct recollection that on occasions when this man came into your shop for a haircut, he drove an automobile up to your shop?

Mr. SHASTEEN. He drove that there 1955, I think it's a 1955, I'm sure it's a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon. It's either blue and white or green and white it's two-toned--I know that. Now, why I say--why I take it for granted that Mrs. Paine was with him when he come to the grocery store--I do remember he wasn't driving when they would come to the grocery store, there would be a lady driving and I'm assuming that that was Mrs. Paine, because like I say, I have been--I have never been close enough to her and knew it, to speak to her, but she trades at the service station where I do and I saw her in there and I never did pay any attention to her and I saw her passing, met her in the road in the car and those things. (WC X, 317)

Shasteen also said that on at least one other occasion, he saw Oswald drive a 1958 Ford accompanied by a 14-year-old boy. Many other witnesses also saw Oswald drive a car in and around Dallas, often when Oswald was officially in New Orleans. During that strange episode in Alice, Texas, you can plot the places LEE Oswald drove on a map.

Also to Martin Blank: I don't put much stock in the “I had two husbands” quote, but that phone call between Ruth and Michael Paine would have been investigated in far greater detail in any serious investigation.

Thanks for pointing this out to me, Jim. It really does seem that Ruth Paine is a CIA asset, and this supports that idea.

[Jim Hargrove]

Wow! You should always show this document to Harvey and Lee skeptics, Jim.

Do you know why the drivers license was there? Was it an expired and surrendered license that been stored in the state's files? I don't know why the government would do that.

According to Aletha Frair's sworn statement, "During the week following the murder of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, on either Wednesday the 27th, or Thursday the 28th of November, 1963 the Texas driver's license issued to LEE HARVEY OSWALD came into my division." That doesn't sound as if it was in storage. She also said: "the driver's license which was dirty and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold. The license was the talk of the office that day since everyone knew who OSWALD was, and the reason his driver's license records were being pulled from the active file was the fact that he had been killed."

If the license was in a billfold, there was no shortage of "Oswald" wallets that might have held it. As John A. has written:

NOTE: There were a total of five Oswald wallets: a black plastic wallet (CE 1798); a red billfold found at Ruth Paine's (CE 2003 #382); a brown billfold found at Ruth Paine's (CE 2003 #114); a billfold taken from LHO upon arrest--initialed by HMM (Henry Moore), wallet and contents inventoried and photographed; and the Westbrook wallet, which was not initialed by police, not listed in inventory, not photographed, not mentioned by a single witness to the FBI, WC, HSCA, ARRB, etc. and disappeared, but not before it was filmed by Ron Reiland of WFAA TV and seen by FBI agent Bob Barrett and other police officers.

I can only speculate about who returned it to the Department of Public Safety and for what reason. My total guess would be it appeared in the "Oswald" wallet that Westbrook found (or more likely brought) to 10th and Patton right after the assassination, and that it was returned to DPS by Westbrook or someone else figuring that was the quietest way to retire "Oswald's" active file. Otherwise, there might be more questions. Whoever did this must have had knowledge of the "Oswald Project." This is sheer conjecture, though. But after the assassination, Westbrook served as a consultant to the Saigon police, a real indication that he had intelligence connections.

[Paul Brancato]

For me this story makes no sense. As you ask, why return it to DPS? In the absence of further proof, like the actual DL or a good photo it lacks substance.

[Tony Rose]

"I was pleased to throw away anything I could ... I just didn't want it".

Ruth's explanation for these two particularly auspicious magazines (i.e. timing of the mail, first-time mailings, awareness after the assassination, not reporting them to the FBI or authorities, and then discarding them) does not pass a red-faced test (pun intended).

Gene:

Are you accusing that fine, upright, and kindly Quaker woman of, ly---well, being less than candid?

I've done some more digging.

Check out p 19 here . Informant (almost certainly Harry Holmes) questioned postal employees about box 6225 Oswald rented from Nov 1. Only one could recall ever placing any mail in that box for Oswald - Russian newspapers - although he was not claiming 100% certainty. These of course, could not have been the Worker or the Militant which were in English. The informant (again probably Holmes) stated that in his opinion, no mail had ever been placed in the box because of the amount of undisturbed dust present.

Where does this leave us?

Is there any proof that Oswald actually did subscribe to the Worker and to the Militant? If such proof exists then the papers must have been sent to the Paines or elsewhere - and if to the Paines, then Ruth would have known about him getting them long before Nov 23.

Unless someone knows of solid evidence of his subscriptions, I would have grave doubts that Oswald was a subscriber to either... which in turn would reinforce my earlier suggestion that the two papers tossed out by Ruth were ones obtained by her, Mike or some associate in order to manufacture the fake BYPs.

I'm not arguing about what subscriptions Oswald had or did not have, but it should be considered that a copy of the Militant or the Worker might be thought of as "Russian" newspapers by a postal clerk unfamiliar with the papers in question under the Russian=Communist school of thought.

[Paul Trejo]

...Unless someone knows of solid evidence of his subscriptions, I would have grave doubts that Oswald was a subscriber to either... which in turn would reinforce my earlier suggestion that the two papers tossed out by Ruth were ones obtained by her, Mike or some associate in order to manufacture the fake BYPs.

I'm not arguing about what subscriptions Oswald had or did not have, but it should be considered that a copy of the Militant or the Worker might be thought of as "Russian" newspapers by a postal clerk unfamiliar with the papers in question under the Russian=Communist school of thought.

Actually, Tony, we can answer this now. Ruth Paine told the WC that Oswald had several subscriptions to several magazines sent to her home starting in early October 1963. She itemized them for the WC (vol. III) in testimony given to Albert Jenner on Friday, March 20, 1964. Here's the excerpt:

--------------------------- BEGIN EXTRACT OF RUTH PAINE'S WC TESTIMONY Vol. 3, p. 94ff --------------------------

Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether Lee Oswald subscribed to any newspapers?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes; I do.

Mr. JENNER. What newspapers, excuse me, did he or did he not subscribe?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes. They came to my door. They sat around the house until the weekend when he arrived.

Mr. JENNER. Tell us what newspapers those were?

Mrs. PAINE. I noticed a paper which I was told was from Minsk.

Mr. JENNER. Was it in Russian?

Mrs. PAINE. In Russian.

Mr. JENNER. Did you ever see it in the sense of glancing at it out of idle curiosity if nothing else?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And it was in Russian?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Was there something about it that indicated to you that it came from Minsk?

Mrs. PAINE. Marina told me.

Mr. JENNER. She told you. Was it a political tract or was it a newspaper as we understand newspapers?

Mrs. PAINE. It was a newspaper as Russians understand newspapers which makes it a borderline political tract.

Mr. JENNER. All right. In addition to that Russian newspaper from Minsk was there anything –

Mrs. PAINE. There was a Russian magazine, small, Reader’s Digest size.

Mr. JENNER. The witness is indicating in her hands about a page size of about nine by –

Mrs. PAINE. Six.

Mr. JENNER. Nine by six.

Is that about the size?

Mrs. PAINE. Something like that, called the Agitator, the name written in Russian.

Mr. JENNER. The word “Agitator” was written in Russian, printed in Russian?

Mrs. PAINE. That is right.

Mr. JENNER. On the face or cover page of this document, is that true?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Was the entire document in Russian?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Did you have occasion to look at it?

Mrs. PAINE. Just the outside.

Mr. JENNER. Your curiosity or intellectual interest never went beyond reading any portion of one of the issues?

Mrs. PAINE. It never did.

Mr. JENNER. But you do recall definitely the title page?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Any others?

Mrs. PAINE. Crocodile, which is a Russian satirical humor magazine.

Mr. JENNER. Was that in Russian?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Did you have occasion to read it and to observe Russian humor?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. It was not political in character?

Mrs. PAINE. Being satirical, of course, it made political reference but it was not particularly political in nature.

Mr. JENNER. It was not designed as a political tract, put it that way.

Mrs. PAINE. No.

Mr. JENNER. Anything else?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes. The Russian magazine Ogonok.

Mr. JENNER. What does that mean in Russian?

Mrs. PAINE. It means “bonfire” or “fire”.

Mr. JENNER. Was that printed in Russian?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. Did you have – did your curiosity lead you to read any portion of it?

Mrs. PAINE. Or it may be let’s see, I am not certain in my translation, but go ahead with the question.

Mr. JENNER. You are not certain of your translation of the word?

Mrs. PAINE. Of that single word?

Mr. JENNER. Of the title of this document about which you are now speaking?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. But you think it means what you said it meant?

Mrs. PAINE. It has something to do with fire; yes.

Mr. JENNER. Did you read any portion of any of those issues?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes; I did.

Mr. JENNER. And what was the nature of it with respect to whether it was political or otherwise?

Mrs. PAINE. It was not political.

Mr. JENNER. What was its nature?

Mrs. PAINE. Narrative, special articles of interest to the general population. Marina enjoyed reading this one.

Mr. JENNER. She enjoyed it?

Mrs. PAINE. She expressed herself as disliking the Agitator. She interpreted some of the things in Crocodile for me which I had difficulty understanding.

Mr. JENNER. Anything else?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes. He subscribed to Time magazine.

Mr. JENNER. Here in America?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. And did he read it when he come out on weekends?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes; he did. He read that first.

Mr. JENNER. Sat down and read that first. Did he take the issue away with him when he left every week?

Mrs. PAINE. It is my impression he did.

Mr. JENNER. Are there any others?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes. He subscribed to the Militant.

Mr. JENNER. Militant. What is the Militant?

Mrs. PAINE. It is a paper in English, newspaper style and I would say these next two –

Mr. JENNER. Published by whom?

Mrs. PAINE. I don’t know.

Mr. JENNER. Socialist Worker’s Party?

Mrs. PAINE. I have been so told.

Mr. JENNER. You just don’t know?

Mrs. PAINE. I don’t know.

Mr. JENNER. But was it a political tract?

Mrs. PAINE. I don’t know that.

Mr. JENNER. Did you read it?

Mrs. PAINE. No.

Mr. JENNER. Why didn’t you?

Mrs. PAINE. I wasn’t interested.

Mr. JENNER. Because of the nature of the document?

Mrs. PAINE. If I had had time to do much reading, I might have taken an interest but I had no time, insufficient time to do the reading I really wanted to do. He also subscribed to the Worker.

Mr. JENNER. Is that the publication of the Communist Party USA?

Mrs. PAINE. I have been told so.

Mr. JENNER. Did you read that?

Mrs. PAINE. No.

Mr. JENNER. Did you observe – have you now concluded the list of newspapers, periodicals or magazines to which he was a subscriber?

Mrs. PAINE. I believe so. I might say that my awareness of his subscribing to these last two, the Militant and the Worker, came after the assassination. There was mail awaiting for him for that weekend which he did not pick up on the 21st, and after the assassination, indeed, after Saturday evening, the 23d, when it was announced on television that they had a photograph of Lee Oswald holding two papers. I looked at this pile of mail waiting for him which consisted of these two newspapers, the Militant and the Worker, and I threw them away.

Mr. JENNER. You threw them away?

Mrs. PAINE. Without opening them.

Mr. JENNER. Why did you throw them away?

Mrs. PAINE. I was pleased to throw away anything I could. I just didn’t want it.

Mr. JENNER. Well, my question or query, and I think expression of surprise, is activated by what I am about to ask you as to whether you might call that to the attention of the FBI?

Mrs. PAINE. Oh, I am sure they knew.

Mr. JENNER. How are you sure they knew?

Mrs. PAINE. Because mail stopped coming on the spot, nothing came after the assassination, I was certain it was still coming to some place.

Mr. JENNER. But this was almost instantaneously after you heard a broadcast that a photograph of him had been found in which he had been holding up the Militant. But you immediately went to see if he had that mail and there was a copy of the Militant and you threw it away?

Mrs. PAINE. Why not?

Mr. JENNER. Well, it occurred to me you might have called the FBI’s attention to the fact that it had come to the house. But you didn’t in any event?

Mrs. PAINE. No; I didn’t.

Mr. JENNER. Did you report it to the FBI in any of these interviews you had subsequently with them, or did they ask? It is two questions, if you will answer both.

Mrs. PAINE. If so, it was quite recently.

Mr. JENNER. When did the other papers begin to arrive? Did I interrupt you before you had a chance to complete your answer to my question?

Mrs. PAINE. No.

Mr. JENNER. The papers different from the Worker and the Militant, when did they begin to arrive at your home?

Mrs. PAINE. Well, they began to arrive, I would say, sometime after October 4th. That is, of course, my judgment. That is a rationalization.

Mr. JENNER. These magazines and newspapers you have recounted first appeared at your home after Lee Oswald came to Dallas and became employed or came to Dallas to live at your house and to seek employment?

Mrs. PAINE. He came to Dallas, he lived in Dallas, but he used my house.

Mr. JENNER. He came to your house?

Mrs. PAINE. As a residence, mailing address. Never asked to and I never complained but I noticed, of course, that he was using it as a mailing address.

Mr. JENNER. Up to that time and even though Marina was living with you nothing of that nature came to your home?

Mrs. PAINE. What?

Mr. JENNER. Prior to the time that Lee arrived at your home on or about or on the 4th of October 1963, none of these newspapers or periodicals had come to your home, is that correct?

Mrs. PAINE. That is correct.

Mr. JENNER. Was he a reader of the local newspaper?

Mrs. PAINE. Yes.

Mr. JENNER. You were a subscriber to what?

Mrs. PAINE. To the Irving newspaper and the Sunday Dallas Morning News.

Mr. JENNER. Did he read both of those?

Mrs. PAINE. He was very interested in seeing the Sunday paper edition especially. He read both, to the best of my recollection.

--------------------------- END EXTRACT OF RUTH PAINE'S WC TESTIMONY Vol. 3, p. 94ff --------------------------

Why guess? Why not just go to the Source? The List is complete because Ruth Paine is a thorough type of person (although somewhat naïve).

Best regards,

--Paul Trejo

Edited June 6, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Thomas Graves]

On 2/7/2016 at 2:43 PM, Jon G. Tidd said:

Tommy,

I have no dog in this fight. But I applaud your use of the possessive before the gerund.

Congrats on good writing. That's writing.

 

Thanks, Jon!

Where ever you may be.

--  Tommy

Edit:  Yes, it signifies a high level of English proficiency, in my oh-so humble opinion.  (lol)

Edited April 30, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[W. Niederhut]

On 12/31/2015 at 3:36 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Now that we have shown some rather questionable actions by Ruth and Michael Paine, and also have indicated the awareness of Allen Dulles about these areas, let us peel back the curtain on their full backgrounds. Doing each separately.

Michael's ancestors go back to the Forbes and Cabots, the so called First Families of America. His grand uncle, Cameron Forbes was governor and later ambassador to the Philippines. In fact, Michael was benefiting from six digit trust funds at the time of the assassination from these families.

More to the point, Cameron was on the board, along with other Cabot relatives, of Untied Fruit. One of these relatves was Thomas Dudley Cabot, another cousin of Michael In fact, Thomas was actually a former president of United Fruit. In 1951, he was working in security affairs of the State Dept. His brother, John, was also in the State Department around this time.

John was exchanging information with Maurice Gatlin, Guy Banister's legal buddy. The were talking about the upcoming CIA coup in Guatemala.

Later, in the early sixties, Thomas was president of Gibraltar Steamship Corporation, which leased barren land off the coast of Honduras called Swan Island. Gibraltar was a phony company, a CIA front. It was on this island that David Phillips established Radio Swan, the CIA station broadcasting into Cuba during the Bay of Pigs operation.

This old Education Forum thread is a veritable gold mine of information about Ruth and Michael Paines' Quakerism.   Their blue-blooded relatives were, apparently, involved in humanitarian work in Guatemala long before Ruth's Quaker activity in NIcaragua... 🤥

Edited May 1, 2022 by W. Niederhut

[Ron Bulman]

7 hours ago, W. Niederhut said:

This old Education Forum thread is a veritable gold mine of information about Ruth and Michael Paines' Quakerism.   Their blue-blooded relatives were, apparently, involved in humanitarian work in Guatemala long before Ruth's Quaker activity in NIcaragua... 🤥

Thanks for bumping this one W.  I was following the forum by New Years Eve in 2015.  Threads like this kept me reading until I joined to comment on the Ruth's Couch thread by Chris Newton.  It's also where I learned to skip over some posters comments, e.g. Paul Trejo.

I just re read the first five pages (except Paul's posts).  I'd forgotten a lot.

Like Michaels six figure trust fund.  His brother being on the board of United Fruit(?).

Ruth not remembering where her sister worked when questioned by Garrison.  (The CIA).  After visiting her in the summer of 1963, on the trip where she visited Naushon Island and picked up Marina on the way back through New Orleans.  I did remember her dad worked for CIA front AID, but not that he was director of Latin American operations. I also forgot that her brother in law also worked for AID.

Also that George Bouhe lived in the apartment next door to Jack Ruby.  Which he visited her after the assassination to tell her was just a coincidence.

[W. Niederhut]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Thanks for bumping this one W.  I was following the forum by New Years Eve in 2015.  Threads like this kept me reading until I joined to comment on the Ruth's Couch thread by Chris Newton.  It's also where I learned to skip over some posters comments, e.g. Paul Trejo.

I just re read the first five pages (except Paul's posts).  I'd forgotten a lot.

Like Michaels six figure trust fund.  His brother being on the board of United Fruit(?).

Ruth not remembering where her sister worked when questioned by Garrison.  (The CIA).  After visiting her in the summer of 1963, on the trip where she visited Naushon Island and picked up Marina on the way back through New Orleans.  I did remember her dad worked for CIA front AID, but not that he was director of Latin American operations. I also forgot that her brother in law also worked for AID.

Also that George Bouhe lived in the apartment next door to Jack Ruby.  Which he visited her after the assassination to tell her was just a coincidence.

Yes, Ron, with all of these recent threads promoting false narratives about Ruth and Michael Paine, it was helpful today to study James DiEugenio's old commentaries on this 2015 thread.

According to the scriptures, a tree is known by its fruit, and, in the case of the Paines, it was United Fruit. 🤪

[Denny Zartman]

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

Ruth not remembering where her sister worked when questioned by Garrison.  (The CIA).

Ruth probably thought her sister worked for the ACLU.

[James DiEugenio]

Nice one William, UnitedFruit.

Ron, the other guy you want to skip on those old threads is Thomas Graves.

But yes this was a really interesting review of the Paines.

And this is what I mean about the first generation critics missing so much of it.

[W. Niederhut]

12 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Nice one William, UnitedFruit.

Ron, the other guy you want to skip on those old threads is Thomas Graves.

But yes this was a really interesting review of the Paines.

And this is what I mean about the first generation critics missing so much of it.

Q.  What was Allen Dulles's favorite fruit?

A.  United Fruit.  🤥

[Sandy Larsen]

On 5/1/2022 at 10:01 PM, Denny Zartman said:

On 5/1/2022 at 8:29 PM, Ron Bulman said:

Ruth not remembering where her sister worked when questioned by Garrison.  (The CIA).

Ruth probably thought her sister worked for the ACLU.

 

LOL

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Sandy Larsen

[Jim Hargrove]

On 12/31/2015 at 2:38 AM, James DiEugenio said:

Prior to the Hewett-Jones-LaMonica work in Probe, there really had not been any systematic or categoric overview of the Paines in the JFK literature.

There had only been certain hints or glimmers of what these two people were really all about and who they actually were.

I can name Peter Scott and Tony Summers in that regard. But as I said this was just small scale stuff.

What Carol did, assisted by Barbara and Steve, was to show that the picture of the Paines as drawn by the Warren Commission was completely foreshortened. In fact, it was foreshortened almost as much with them as it was with Oswald.

Now, who was the only man on the WC who understood this? Who else? Richard Russell. He commented to the effect that, Ruth and Michael must be the Good Samaritans to end all Good Samaritans. In other words, their intense interest in the Oswalds seemed to be a bit beyond the pale. As noted above, Ruth was already teaching Russian, and if she needed to brush up on it, I mean, were the Paines not in the middle of the White Russian community?

As I also noted above, what kind of new acquaintance to a married couple tried to get that couple to split up by having the wife move in with her? This is not the stuff of William Penn is it? Yet, as Carol noted, this is what Ruth tried to do, within about three weeks of meeting the Oswalds. So, to some, this appears to have been her objective. Which, as we know, she succeeded at. As noted above, she told her relatives on her quasi cross country trip that she would return Marina to live with her once she picked her up in New Orleans. As noted, if this was her goal, she succeeded in achieving it. As we shall see, the effects of that on Lee Oswald were disastrous.

Thanks to Jim DiEugenio for all his work on the Paines.  It's a refreshing return to reality from recent attempts to whitewash them.