The Real Ruth and Michael Paine

[James DiEugenio]

Ruth Paine's family originated from New York before moving to Ohio. Her father, William Avery Hyde was a high executive for Nationwide Insurance. He had worked for the OSS in World War II. He ended up becoming the Agency for International Development's (AID) regional director for all of Latin America.

As most of us know, AID was later revealed to be a frequent CIA cover agency. And the CIA used it a lot for covert operations. Her father once worked for ICA, International Cooperative Alliance, a CIA associated agency that George DeMohrenschidt also worked for at one time.

As Steve Jones reported later, all these indications turned out to be more than suggestive. Ruth later admitted to a friend after she left Central America during the Contra war that her father did work for the CIA.

Edited December 31, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

Jim,

In your post #29, you capture ripples in water and treat them as the outer edge of ripples caused by the dropping of a stone in a pond.

Or is that not a fair statement?

Jon,

I am not done yet with this angle.

[Jon G. Tidd]

Jim.

You present Ruth Paine's antecedents. Which is good.

My question: So What?

I ask for a humble reason.

I don't care at all about my antecedents. Not one wit.

Did Ruth or Michael care about their antecedents?

[James DiEugenio]

Now, Ruth had a sister named Sylvia. Her husband, John, also worked for AID.

When Ruth was testifying before the Clay Shaw Grand Jury, Garrison asked her about this relationship. Specifically, what branch of government Sylvia worked for.

Ruth replied that , no she did not know. Even though she had visited her in the summer of 1963.

Garrison then asked, if she knew why her sister's file was classified by the National Archives.

Ruth's reply was priceless: "No, is it?"

Garrison said most of it was, would Ruth know the reason. To which Ruth replied no.

It turns out, as Greg Parker has discovered, that Sylvia was involved in a series of tests for pilots to the precursor of the U 2 program. In other words she was used in CIA screening projects, and that is who she was working for in 1963.

Now please count the connections I have enumerated above. They are absolutely myriad, from United Fruit and Guatemala, to Bay of Pigs and David Phillips, to CIA overflight operations.

Why is virtually none of this in either the WR or the HSCA volumes?

Why did the critical community have to discover what Allen Dulles knew on his own?

Maybe that explains why Hoover was so confident that the Paines could help him out in hiding Oswald's Minox camera? Or what Mike Paine was doing at Luby's across from SMU?

And there is still more to come. Have a Happy New Year.

Edited December 31, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[James DiEugenio]

JT: I don't care at all about my antecedents. Not one wit.

Did Ruth or Michael care about their antecedents?

You don't care about your brother or sister? Not one wit. Most unusual man.

Ruth sure did. She would not tell Garrison who Sylvia worked for, and then mislead him on where she lived. (Sylvia did not live in Virginia at the time, she lived in Maryland.)

And if, like Mike Paine, I was collecting money from a trust fund from two family trusts, which was the equivalent of over 2 million today, yep I would care about them.

Edited December 31, 2015 by James DiEugenio

[Greg Parker]

Now, Ruth had a sister named Sylvia. Her husband, John, also worked for AID.

When Ruth was testifying before the Clay Shaw Grand Jury, Garrison asked her about this relationship. Specifically, what branch of government Sylvia worked for.

Ruth replied that , no she did not know. Even though she had visited her in the summer of 1963.

Garrison then asked, if she knew why her sister's file was classified by the National Archives.

Ruth's reply was priceless: "No, is it?"

Garrison said most of it was, would Ruth know the reason. To which Ruth replied no.

It turns out, as Greg Parker has discovered, that Sylvia was involved in a series of tests for pilots to the precursor of the U 2 program. In other words she was used in CIA screening projects, and that is who she was working for in 1963.

Now please count the connections I have enumerated above. They are absolutely myriad, from United Fruit and Guatemala, to Bay of Pigs and David Phillips, to CIA overflight operations.

Why is virtually none of this in either the WR or the HSCA volumes?

Why did the critical community have to discover what Allen Dulles knew on his own?

Maybe that explains why Hoover was so confident that the Paines could help him out in hiding Oswald's Minox camera? Or what Mike Paine was doing at Luby's across from SMU?

And there is still more to come. Have a Happy New Year.

Small correction, Jim. Sylvia was working on recruitment for electronic maintenance personnel - not pilots for the FICON project - one of two or three of pre-U2 overflight programs. To me, that's even more telling. The summary report of the work done shows the team had a special interest in radar operations.... the report was finalized a month prior to Lee joining the USMC and requesting training in electronic maintenance.

Keep in the back of your mind that I showed in volume one, the distinct possibility that the Hydes and Ekdahls knew each other. Both living in New York in 1940, both involved in cooperative movements and both supporters of John Dewey and Norman Thomas...

[Greg Parker]

JT: I don't care at all about my antecedents. Not one wit.

Did Ruth or Michael care about their antecedents?

You don't care about your brother or sister? Not one wit. Most unusual man.

Ruth sure did. She would not tell Garrison who Sylvia worked for, and then mislead him on where she lived. (Sylvia did not live in Virginia at the time, she lived in Maryland.)

And if, like Mike Paine, I was collecting money from a trust fund from two family trusts, which was the equivalent of over 2 million today, yep I would care about them.

The interesting thing this about that is that he allegedly had no money in his account for his church tithe and even had to borrow $3000 to buy the land for his workshop.

Mr. KRYSTINIK. No, sir; not really. I talked to him about it very little, and I do know that just shortly after he came back from Los Angeles, Michael did buy this plot of land and he did pay cash, $3,000, and I had the impression that prior to his going to Los Angeles he didn't have the money. I had that impression because he commented that there was time for him to pay or give--we were talking about church donations during the coffee break one day shortly after that, and he commented that he was really going to have to do something about his bank account, it was time to pay his pledge dues at the Unitarian Church and he didn't have the money in the bank, and 3 or so weeks later he had $3,000, for a plot of land, so I am assuming, I am not a detective, that he had gotten the money from his father or from Art Young, who is his stepfather. One of those two persons, he had gotten the money. He had, if I remember correctly, Art Young was in Texas, so one of these two places he had gotten the money. Those are the impressions I had, that he had gotten it from his father.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any discussion about this with Michael?

Mr. KRYSTINIK. No, sir; I didn't. I want to make it clear that I don't know. These are impressions that I had.

Mr. LIEBELER. Did Michael tell you that he went to Los Angeles for the purpose of visiting his father?

Mr. KRYSTINIK. No, sir; he didn't state it in that way. He said that his father offered to pay for the plane ticket to the west coast, and he thought it was a wonderful opportunity to visit his father, and this was the discussion prior to his leaving.

Mr. LIEBELER. He was not sent to the west coast on business for Bell Helicopter?

Mr. KRYSTINIK. No, sir; he has been sent to Pennsylvania on Bell Helicopter business. I am aware of that.

[Thomas Graves]

Now, Ruth had a sister named Sylvia. Her husband, John, also worked for AID.

When Ruth was testifying before the Clay Shaw Grand Jury, Garrison asked her about this relationship. Specifically, what branch of government Sylvia worked for.

Ruth replied that , no she did not know. Even though she had visited her in the summer of 1963.

Garrison then asked, if she knew why her sister's file was classified by the National Archives.

Ruth's reply was priceless: "No, is it?"

Garrison said most of it was, would Ruth know the reason. To which Ruth replied no.

It turns out, as Greg Parker has discovered, that Sylvia was involved in a series of tests for pilots to the precursor of the U 2 program. In other words she was used in CIA screening projects, and that is who she was working for in 1963.

Now please count the connections I have enumerated above. They are absolutely myriad, from United Fruit and Guatemala, to Bay of Pigs and David Phillips, to CIA overflight operations.

Why is virtually none of this in either the WR or the HSCA volumes?

Why did the critical community have to discover what Allen Dulles knew on his own?

Maybe that explains why Hoover was so confident that the Paines could help him out in hiding Oswald's Minox camera? Or what Mike Paine was doing at Luby's across from SMU?

And there is still more to come. Have a Happy New Year.

Small correction, Jim. Sylvia was working on recruitment for electronic maintenance personnel - not pilots for the FICON project - one of two or three of pre-U2 overflight programs. To me, that's even more telling. The summary report of the work done shows the team had a special interest in radar operations.... the report was finalized a month prior to Lee joining the USMC and requesting training in electronic maintenance.

Keep in the back of your mind that I showed in volume one, the distinct possibility that the Hydes and Ekdahls knew each other. Both living in New York in 1940, both involved in cooperative movements and both supporters of John Dewey and Norman Thomas...

Greg,

Mr. DiEugenio is a very highly-esteemed historian.

Historians of his caliber do not make mistakes or "spin" the truth.

LOL

--Tommy

Edited January 1, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Greg Parker]

Greg,

Mr. DiEugenio is a very highly-esteemed historian.

Historians of his caliber do not make mistakes or "spin" the truth.

LOL

We all make mistakes, Tommy. But only some historians spin. That latter is not an accusation I'd make against this particular historian.

[James DiEugenio]

Thanks for the correction Greg. I did not have the book in front of me.

You are right, that does make it even more interesting in the possible context of Oswald.

Edited January 1, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Trejo]

Now that we have shown some rather questionable actions by Ruth and Michael Paine, and also have indicated the awareness of Allen Dulles about these areas, let us peel back the curtain on their full backgrounds. ...

<snip>

But James, you've actually failed to show any questionable actions by Ruth or Michael Paine. You're still REACHING.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Jim:

I appreciate the renewed interest in the Paines. I do think they are "clear beacons leading to the killers" as Vincent Salandria stated. I also strongly sense the hand of Allen Dulles... I think he used them in the same fashion that he used Noel Field. I find this quote by Marguerite Oswald to be telling:

"The proud and perfect Quaker ... I keep saying she is a fraud and xxxx; she is evil, and selfish and the cause of it all. I would wipe up the floor with her."

Gene

Well, Gene, to use LHO's mother, Marguerite Oswald, as an authority on anybody or anything is a stretch. Even LHO was happy to keep her out of his own life as far and as long as possible.

Why did Marguerite Oswald say such cruel things about Ruth Paine? She never actually met the woman, except on the night of the murder of JFK, and then only for a brief period at the DPD station, and then for dinner that night at Ruth Paine's house.

The next morning the Secret Service and the Oswald family spirited Marina Oswald away from Ruth Paine and kept Marina Oswald away from Ruth Paine for the rest of their lives.

Why? Ruth Paine always wanted to know why?

William Manchester built upon Marguerite's suspicions of Ruth Paine in his book for RFK, namely, "Death of a President" (1967), when he insinuated, without saying it, that Ruth had a lesbian affair with Marina Oswald, and drove LHO insane enough to kill JFK.

Others accused Ruth Paine by saying that if she hadn't been so "charitable" toward Marina Oswald, that LHO would have had to work harder, and would not have had extra time and money to associate with Guy Banister, David Ferrie or Clay Shaw.

Others, perhaps Marguerite and Robert Oswald, suggested that if Ruth Paine hadn't been so "charitable" toward Marina Oswald, then LHO would have had to move in with Marguerite so that she could care for her own grandchildren.

But those latter don't know how hard LHO struggled to get out and stay out of Marguerite's orbit. Marguerite was a piece of work. To quote her in any context is always a dicey proposition.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

But not only was Allen Dulles quite aware of the liabilities of DeMohrenschidlt, he was also aware of the problem with the Paines. Which Richard Russell already had been sniffing out.

So he made sure that Russell's suspicions would not come to dominate the Commission. For in December of 1963, the FBI did an interview with Frederick Osborne Jr and his wife Nancy. They testified to the Paines' "religiosity, good character, and innocence in having anything to do with the assassination of President Kennedy."

<snip>

By quoting Senator Richard Russell of the Warren Commission, we must admit that we're quoting one of the most racist Senators the USA ever had.

Knowing (or strongly suspecting) that General Walker led the plot to murder JFK with the help of the Radical Right of the South, it is not surprising that Senator Russell would want to shift the blame to the "Eastern Establishment" and to liberal yuppies like Michael and Ruth Paine.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Ruth Paine's family originated from New York before moving to Ohio. Her father, William Avery Hyde was a high executive for Nationwide Insurance. He had worked for the OSS in World War II. He ended up becoming the Agency for International Development's (AID) regional director for all of Latin America.

As most of us know, AID was later revealed to be a frequent CIA cover agency. And the CIA used it a lot for covert operations. Her father once worked for ICA, International Cooperative Alliance, a CIA associated agency that George DeMohrenschidt also worked for at one time.

As Steve Jones reported later, all these indications turned out to be more than suggestive. Ruth later admitted to a friend after she left Central America during the Contra war that her father did work for the CIA.

That's misleading, James. Actually, every single US International Agency is a valuable CIA resource for a cover, for connections, and for a base. You're REACHING by trying to make Ruth Paine's father's insurance business into a CIA front.

It's REACHING.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

Now, Ruth had a sister named Sylvia. Her husband, John, also worked for AID.

When Ruth was testifying before the Clay Shaw Grand Jury, Garrison asked her about this relationship. Specifically, what branch of government Sylvia worked for.

Ruth replied that , no she did not know. Even though she had visited her in the summer of 1963.

Garrison then asked, if she knew why her sister's file was classified by the National Archives.

Ruth's reply was priceless: "No, is it?"

Garrison said most of it was, would Ruth know the reason. To which Ruth replied no.

It turns out, as Greg Parker has discovered, that Sylvia was involved in a series of tests for pilots to the precursor of the U 2 program. In other words she was used in CIA screening projects, and that is who she was working for in 1963.

Now please count the connections I have enumerated above. They are absolutely myriad, from United Fruit and Guatemala, to Bay of Pigs and David Phillips, to CIA overflight operations.

Why is virtually none of this in either the WR or the HSCA volumes?

Why did the critical community have to discover what Allen Dulles knew on his own?

Maybe that explains why Hoover was so confident that the Paines could help him out in hiding Oswald's Minox camera? Or what Mike Paine was doing at Luby's across from SMU?

James, all you have here is the fact that Ruth Paine's sister was a psychologist for the CIA, and that Ruth Paine denied under oath that she knew the details of her sister's work.

Since the CIA doesn't allow it's employees to discuss the details of their work with anybody -- including family members -- you have to REACH to accuse Ruth Paine of lying about this.

In fact, Ruth Paine told the truth -- and you have no proof at all, otherwise.

Regards,

--Paul Trejo