Re-Post from ROKC: re Baker entering TSBD

[Thomas Graves]

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Robin,

Your excellent contributions on this and the "Prespective Is A B---H" thread are greatly appreciated!

--Tommy

[Robin Unger]

[Thomas Graves]

Hard to believe it was not that long ago everyone said I was nuts for not believing Baker went into the TSBD immediately.

Of course, my saying so doesn't really count, as I was only working on a "hunch".

Not like some of the serious "researchers" here.

Not so fast, Cowboy Bob.

See post # 119, this thread.

The fact that Peggy Hawkins (whom I found) was standing so close to Baker's motorcycle and to the TSBD could be interpreted as actually weakening your theory-in-progress, because it means that she could have seen Baker "in front of the TSBD" (i.e., by his motorcycle) just a few seconds after the assassination.

It's way too early for you to start beating your chest, Cowboy Bobby.

Hold your horses. (LOL!)

--Tommy

Edited January 31, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Funny way to describe a man running full tilt into a building, Thomas.

"...in front of the building at this time...."?

[Thomas Graves]

Funny way to describe a man running full tilt into a building, Thomas.

"...in front of the building at this time...."?

Typical Cowboy Bob.

He only gets half of it.

Like I said, Bobby, both when she saw him near his motorcycle and then running towards the TSBD, she was seeing him "in front of the TSBD."

--Tommy

Edited February 1, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Robert Prudhomme]

Only in your mind, Thomas.

[Guest]

The Altgens woman with the baby seems to be still in that same position as Couch panned left,

in the last frames, I think that's her at least, at upper right.

Note the tip of the antenna on the bike in the first few frames.

Might suggest that Baker was still sat on it until the very last second.

Cropped from the Gerda gif where the focus was on the babushka girl.

Clive this gif has 53 frames, the last 20 are blurred beyond recognition.

The best frame I think is this.

If that is Peggy Bibbler Hawkins and her child then she had a great position to hear Baker's motorcycle radio, since it is seen next to CamCar 2 and have a great vantage point looking back towards the front entrance of the TSBD or while walking back.

edit: does that settle it Tommy?????

Barto,

Works for me.

What I'm thinking is that Baker might have listened to his radio for a few seconds after he'd parked his motorcycle, and Peggy might have seen him there and / or as he was running towards the TSBD, and that she then walked over towards his motorcycle and heard Decker's "railroad yards" comment on the radio. Obviously, Baker would have been "in front of the TSBD" the whole time that Hawkins saw him (i.e. while he was standing next to his motorcycle and / or while running towards the building), and he still could have gone directly up the steps and into the building.

The timing of Sheriff Decker's "railroad yards" comment wouldn't be so critical in that scenario, would it.

Regardless, do we know exactly (not in round minutes, but plus or minus a couple of seconds) when Decker broadcast that bit about "the railroad yards" from Curry's radio?

Nice rendition of that Couch frame, by the way.

Keep up the good work!

--Tommy

At 12:30 Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/

[Guest]

Let' see what you did do Bob.

You started a thread where you discussed the possibility of that Baker did not go up on the steps in contradiction, as quickly as has been stated by both Truly and Baker’s first statements.

And that is because you could not see Baker going up there in Darnell, in Couch you cannot even see the steps but that is a different matter.

You then put some witness statements together that have already been talked about in Sean Murphy's thread, and in that thread it was already crystal clear that Lovelady and Shelley were full of it. More paperwork is not offered, you mention Sanders but do not believe her due to the lack of a sig. I on the other hand disbelieve her because she was in cahoots with Mrs. R Reid.I will explain all that at my website in a few days.

Then in that very same thread you start to talk about Truly's physical position, which is false as Linda has pointed out in a different thread. In the end he stood way more east than Tony Fratini's observation In the Wiegman film. We can see Ochus Campbell, Roy Truly and the TSBD ladies standing next to each other, which was a brilliant find by Linda G.Z.

And then the thread derails into Gloria Calvery, more than half of that thread is about her, your Gloria.

So Bob, to me with regards Baker this is not much to hold on from your perspective, if you want to call that thread research then I am sorry but I do not, rate constant debate of what one believes and thinks actual research. This is exactly where it is actually wrong, whether that is here or at Duncan MacRae's or ours, it is just spewing of opinions. No one outside this forum cares about that, only the person writing it, it’s called ego.

I know you also hang on the guy on the steps in front of Oswald aka Prayer Man and used Lee Farley's opinion as a strengthener but I have to disappoint you about that as well, for the simple reason just looking at those very same statements made by Shelly and Lovelady (you did research those statements no?) and you can see what I am getting at. Regarding this matter I have already posted plenty of stuff at my website and there is an update coming in a few days with more stuff to ponder about that 'blondie' on the steps who is not Lovelady but instead seen walking west with Shelley in Couch.

But back to your hunch and so called credit, my find of Peggy Bibbler Hawkins' statement was sheer luck, and that is only because I spend more time at Mary Ferrel than lurk here and refrain from posting constantly my beliefs and opinions, you see research is done at NARA, Dallas websites or MFF you ought to try it instead of throwing your toys out of the pram.

Kudos to you for bringing it up, but that's it. You make various mistakes in that thread and as stated earlier it is more about Gloria than Marrion, if you want credit for that then so be it. Not that it amounts to much.

And the way things stand I am still not sold on her observation until I see another statement that verifies this. Sure her position has now been verified to an extent, that is if it is her, but for the sake of argument let's assume it is. Furthermore her presence inside the TSBD has been confirmed as well with the so called roll call sheets

But I want to see another statement from someone else who saw a motorcycle police office standing outside just after the shooting. And the question needs to be asked what difference does this make? Giving Oswald more time to get down as LNers would proclaim? Or just the simple fact that they had a few seconds of a discussion outside and then Roy Truly went ahead of Marrion Baker up the steps and took him to the back? I would like to know what the long term gain is here…….

Take into account Baker’s first affidavit and Truly;s as well. Both state Baker went in ahead of Truly and Truly caught up with him in the vestibule.

Now I have to dig through a load of other bits not connected to this so why don't you go to MFF and check if there is another statement as such and confirms that Baker stood longer outside than originally thought, that way you can take the credit for closing this. As I really do not give a toss.

I see from all of this that someone, you in this case, had a hunch, and got side tracked many many times and who wants more credit, about something quite small, than they actually deserve.

edit: grammar reasons

Edited January 31, 2016 by Bart Kamp

[Robert Prudhomme]

"And then the thread derails into Gloria Calvery, more than half of that thread is about her, your Gloria."

You simply do not have the smarts to see that everything about the timing of Baker's entry into the TSBD hinges on when Calvery arrived at the steps.

[Thomas Graves]

Let' see what you did do Bob.

You started a thread where you discussed the possibility of that Baker did not go up on the steps in contradiction, as quickly as has been stated by both Truly and Baker’s first statements.

And that is because you could not see Baker going up there in Darnell, in Couch you cannot even see the steps but that is a different matter.

You then put some witness statements together that have already been talked about in Sean Murphy's thread, and in that thread it was already crystal clear that Lovelady and Shelley were full of it. More paperwork is not offered, you mention Sanders but do not believe her due to the lack of a sig. I on the other hand disbelieve her because she was in cahoots with Mrs. R Reid.I will explain all that at my website in a few days.

Then in that very same thread you start to talk about Truly's physical position, which is false as Linda has pointed out in a different thread. In the end he stood way more east than Tony Fratini's observation In the Wiegman film. We can see Ochus Campbell, Roy Truly and the TSBD ladies standing next to each other, which was a brilliant find by Linda G.Z.

And then the thread derails into Gloria Calvery, more than half of that thread is about her, your Gloria.

So Bob, to me with regards Baker this is not much to hold on from your perspective, if you want to call that thread research then I am sorry but I do not, rate constant debate of what one believes and thinks actual research. This is exactly where it is actually wrong, whether that is here or at Duncan MacRae's or ours, it is just spewing of opinions. No one outside this forum cares about that, only the person writing it, it’s called ego.

I know you also hang on the guy on the steps in front of Oswald aka Prayer Man and used Lee Farley's opinion as a strengthener but I have to disappoint you about that as well, for the simple reason just looking at those very same statements made by Shelly and Lovelady (you did research those statements no?) and you can see what I am getting at. Regarding this matter I have already posted plenty of stuff at my website and there is an update coming in a few days with more stuff to ponder about that 'blondie' on the steps who is not Lovelady but instead seen walking west with Shelley in Couch.

But back to your hunch and so called credit, my find of Peggy Bibbler [sic] Hawkins' statement was sheer luck, and that is only because I spend more time at Mary Ferrel than lurk here and refrain from posting constantly my beliefs and opinions, you see research is done at NARA, Dallas websites or MFF you ought to try it instead of throwing your toys out of the pram.

Kudos to you for bringing it up, but that's it. You make various mistakes in that thread and as stated earlier it is more about Gloria than Marrion, if you want credit for that then so be it. Not that it amounts to much.

And the way things stand I am still not sold on her observation until I see another statement that verifies this. Sure her position has now been verified to an extent, that is if it is her, but for the sake of argument let's assume it is. Furthermore her presence inside the TSBD has been confirmed as well with the so called roll call sheets

But I want to see another statement from someone else who saw a motorcycle police office standing outside just after the shooting. And the question needs to be asked what difference does this make? Giving Oswald more time to get down as LNers would proclaim? Or just the simple fact that they had a few seconds of a discussion outside and then Roy Truly went ahead of Marrion Baker up the steps and took him to the back? I would like to know what the long term gain is here…….

Take into account Baker’s first affidavit and Truly;s as well. Both state Baker went in ahead of Truly and Truly caught up with him in the vestibule.

Now I have to dig through a load of other bits not connected to this so why don't you go to MFF and check if there is another statement as such and confirms that Baker stood longer outside than originally thought, that way you can take the credit for closing this. As I really do not give a toss.

I see from all of this that someone, you in this case, had a hunch, and got side tracked many many times and who wants more credit, about something quite small, than they actually deserve.

edit: grammar reasons

Barto,

Excellent post, especially this part:

"But I want to see another statement from someone else who saw a motorcycle police office standing outside [the front of the TSBD] just after the shooting. And the question needs to be asked what difference does this make? Giving Oswald more time to get down as LNers would proclaim? Or just the simple fact that they had a few seconds of a discussion outside and then Roy Truly went ahead of Marrion Baker up the steps and took him to the back? I would like to know what the long term gain is here……."

I couldn't agree more!

--Tommy

PS Please note that Peggy Joyce Hawkin's maiden name was Bibler, not Bibbler.

Also please note that it was I who spotted Roy Truly (and very probably O. V. Campbell, too -- but not having any photos of Campbell, we don't know what he looked like) in the Weigman film. See posts 26, 32, and 33 in this thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22100&page=2 .

Linda G.Z. helped to confirm this and brilliantly found people like Judy Johnson and Vicki Adams on her own.

Thank you!

Edited February 1, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Robin Unger]

Baker riding next to camera car 3 ( Couch / Darnell )

Edited January 31, 2016 by Robin Unger

[Robin Unger]

Baker inside the TSBD

Click on the thumbnail to view the GIF

Edited January 31, 2016 by Robin Unger

[Sandy Larsen]

Barto,

Excellent post, especially this part:

"But I want to see another statement from someone else who saw a motorcycle police office standing outside [the front of the TSBD] just after the shooting. And the question needs to be asked what difference does this make? Giving Oswald more time to get down as LNers would proclaim?

I for one don't care if it means that. As long as it's the truth, that's all that matters.

Or just the simple fact that they had a few seconds of a discussion outside and then Roy Truly went ahead of Marrion Baker up the steps and took him to the back? I would like to know what the long term gain is here……."

I couldn't agree more!

--Tommy

Robert is to be congratulated on his theory/discovery that Baker didn't go in right away. I don't believe he has totally accepted that yet, but he's right. He'll be vindicated. He already has been imo.

[Thomas Graves]

Barto,

Excellent post, especially this part:

"But I want to see another statement from someone else who saw a motorcycle police office standing outside [the front of the TSBD] just after the shooting. And the question needs to be asked what difference does this make? Giving Oswald more time to get down as LNers would proclaim?

I for one don't care if it means that. As long as it's the truth, that's all that matters. -- Larsen

Or just the simple fact that they had a few seconds of a discussion outside and then Roy Truly went ahead of Marrion Baker up the steps and took him to the back? I would like to know what the long term gain is here……."

I couldn't agree more!

--Tommy

Robert is to be congratulated on his theory/discovery that Baker didn't go in right away. I don't believe he has totally accepted that yet, but he's right. He'll be vindicated. He already has been imo.

That's right, Sandy.

He may have "lingered" in the area for a whole five or ten seconds.

--Tommy

Edited February 1, 2016 by Thomas Graves

[Guest]

"And then the thread derails into Gloria Calvery, more than half of that thread is about her, your Gloria."

You simply do not have the smarts to see that everything about the timing of Baker's entry into the TSBD hinges on when Calvery arrived at the steps.

Your nitpick reply resembles MacRae's

And regarding Calvery,

Mr. BALL. Did Gloria come up?

Mr. MOLINA. Yes, she came. I was in the lobby standing there and she came in with this other girl.

Molina, who we know where he is at in Darnell was standing in the lobby when she came in.....which relates how to Baker?

Go on Sherlock explain THAT!

I am done with you as well.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Bart Kamp