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Jim Hargrove

WARNING to Forum Members: Please Read This!

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RONALD MOSHKI SAID:

How did they know Oswald was in a theater? And THAT theater?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Answer:

Shoe-store manager Johnny C. Brewer observed Lee Oswald lurking in the lobby/entrance of Brewer's shoe store on Jefferson Blvd., with Brewer noting that Oswald was acting "funny" and that he seemed "scared" and seemed to be avoiding the wailing police cars.

Brewer, who was listening to the radio at this time and had just heard about a police officer being shot just blocks from his shoe store, then followed Oswald up the street to the nearby Texas Theater, where Brewer observed Oswald entering the theater without stopping at the box office.

Brewer then checked with ticket-seller Julia Postal to see if she had sold the man a ticket. She said she had not. Postal then called the police, telling them that she and Brewer were of the opinion that the man was "running from them" for some reason.

The police then arrived (in mass) a few minutes later.

This was a perfectly ordinary and to-be-expected chain of events that led to Lee Harvey Oswald's arrest inside the Texas Theater on Jefferson Boulevard in Oak Cliff at approximately 1:50 PM CST on Friday, November 22nd, 1963 AD.

So, when watching Oliver Stone's fictional version of Oswald's theater capture, try to keep in mind the following fact.....

OLIVER STONE'S VERSION OF THIS EVENT IS PURE BULLxxxx AND AVOIDS BREWER'S AND POSTAL'S INVOLVEMENT ENTIRELY.

Thanks. And God bless.


RONALD MOSHKI SAID:

Thanxx to David; can you summarize what Stone did, please? Have not seen that but once or twice a long time ago.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Oliver Stone (in his 1991 movie "JFK"), via voice-over narration from Kevin Costner (playing Jim Garrison) during the courtroom scene, claims that when the police converged in mass on the Texas Theater it was (quoting verbatim from the movie itself) -- "The most remarkable example of police intuition since the Reichstag fire. I don't buy it. They knew--someone knew--Oswald was going to be there. In fact, as early as 12:44, only 14 minutes after the assassination, the police radio put out a description matching Oswald's size and build."

But there was nothing whatsoever "remarkable" or unusual about the police converging quickly (and in great numbers) on the theater where Oswald was hiding.

A police officer had been gunned down in the street only half-an-hour earlier. The police knew that the killer was ON FOOT and heading down Jefferson Boulevard. When they received that call from Julia Postal, OBVIOUSLY the police were going to move (fast) to check out the "suspicious" man who just went into the dark movie theater.

And yet, to hear Stone telling it (through Garrison/Costner's words in the script), the cops swarming the theater was some incredible piece of fortune-telling and crystal-ball-gazing. Nonsense.

I need to correct an error I made in my earlier post --- Upon being reminded of some additional dialogue in Oliver Stone's film (via this link from Dave Reitzes' excellent website), I will retract my earlier statement where I said that Stone avoided Brewer's and Postal's involvement entirely in the "JFK" movie. I see now, via Mr. Reitzes' site, that I was not correct there, because Brewer is, indeed, mentioned (and so is the "cashier", who was Postal).

However, it's still fairly obvious (via the dialogue I quoted above) that Mr. Stone just doesn't want to believe that the ONLY reason the police descended upon the theater on November 22nd was because of the observations of Johnny Brewer and Julia Postal. Stone doesn't "buy it".

But if anybody, after researching the true facts regarding Brewer and Postal, still "buys" Stone's version put forth in his movie, then they'd probably buy that bridge that's always for sale in Brooklyn too.

Also -- The 12:44 PM police broadcast put out by the Dallas Police Department for the assassin of JFK was not the slightest bit suspicious or "conspiratorial" in any way either (contrary to what Oliver Stone wants his viewing audience to believe).

Howard Brennan almost immediately approached the police after the shooting to give them a description of the man he had clearly seen pulling the trigger from the sixth-floor TSBD window -- with that description generally matching Oswald's "size and build" (as Stone/Garrison/Costner said in the film).

So, quite obviously, the police didn't just sit on their collective hands sipping sodas and munching on Dunkin' Donuts for an hour. Instead, they acted on this witness' information and put out an APB broadcast over all channels of the police radio at 12:43-12:44 PM on November 22nd, less than 15 minutes after the last shot came out of Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle.

So, once again, as can be easily determined once the true facts of the case are researched, Ollie Stone has deliberately deceived and misled his movie-going audience.

David Von Pein
October 21, 2007

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DVP

"Howard Brennan almost immediately approached the police after the shooting to give them a description of the man he had clearly seen pulling the trigger from the sixth-floor TSBD window -- with that description generally matching Oswald's "size and build" (as Stone/Garrison/Costner said in the film).

"Generally" isn't sufficient, David. They said that the suspect was 5'10". Brennan never mentioned the snipers height.

Where did the '5'10"" description originate?

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You, Scott, seem to be implying in your above remarks that you have some doubt as to whether Johnny Brewer actually followed Oswald to the theater AT ALL. Right? And you seem to doubt that Officer McDonald was telling the truth about getting his hand pinched during his struggle with Oswald. Right?

In other words, you seem to want to blame everybody in sight except that guy with a gun in his hands in the theater who was acting "funny" and "scared" (per Brewer's testimony)---and that would be Mr. Oswald.

I'm not implying Brewer didn't follow Oswald, he may have. I'm not saying Officer McDonald didn't pinch his hand in a struggle with Oswald. What I am saying is that Mr. McDonald alludes to the fact that had he not placed his hand between the hammer (which went off) and the primer known as the bullet he would have been dead. I along with most folks would have wanted to take a photo of my pinched hand to prove what I'm saying is true. All I'm asking for are photos were there any photos taken of Mr. McDonald's hand that there is evidence of what he says happened is true.

I'm not saying that Oswald couldn't do all these things either, but let's face it, dead men don't talk.

Edited by Scott Kaiser

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OLIVER STONE'S VERSION OF THIS EVENT IS PURE BULLxxxx AND AVOIDS BREWER'S AND POSTAL'S INVOLVEMENT ENTIRELY.

​The above is pure BS.

​That whole scene, as related to the WC is in the movie.

But what the Krazy Kid Oswald advocates do is the usual: they accept the WC blow dried version of the events. Without looking back to the actual first day evidence. Just as they do with the mythological "shells dropping" from above, or the Baker run in with LHO at the soda machine.

The Warren Commission was an utter farce. It was nothing but a set up all the way and there are now about three pieces of very strong evidence that gives that to us in their own words--Russ Baker's upcoming book will have more on this.

So yes Oliver Stone did put the whole Postal/Brewer WC dry cleaned version in his movie. But Jim Garrison did not buy this, and he did something that the McAdams clones did not: he dug into the record. He actually found a third witness to all this. And a couple of problems with Brewer. (See this is what real investigators do.) And as John Armstrong discovered, Julia Postal's story was not consistent. Even though it was a very simple event. And she was a reluctant witness, and afterwards she did not want to talk to anyone.

​There is also the Butch Burroughs problem, not just about the time, but the fact he did not see anyone come in as he told Brewer, plus the two DPD reports which say that Oswald was in the mezzazine, and the Bernard Haire problem about someone coming out the back.Plus, there were 24 people in the theater, why did the police only list twelve? And why did the original official list of theater patrons disappear?

​The capper will always be the Carl Mather mystery, he of Collins Radio--who the WC never examined--wonder why. Joe McBride writes about seven pages on him in his book. If Oswald went out the front with the cops, then who did Mather have in his car out the back?

​Something happened at the theater. And Oliver Stone underplayed it.

Edited by James DiEugenio

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The above is pure BS.

Jim is starting to show a little Scott in him, lol...

​The capper will always be the Carl Mather mystery, he of Collins Radio

Interesting that Jose de la Torrinte was president of Collins Radio, and my father was also apart of his group at onetime.

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Brennan never mentioned the sniper's height.

How do you know he didn't? Just because he didn't mention a height figure in his 11/22 affidavit? You think that means Brennan couldn't have mentioned "5 feet 10" to the police?

------------

"Critics of Brennan's story will also usually cite the fact that Brennan

didn't positively identify Oswald in a police line-up on the day of the

assassination, which is correct. However, the critics fail to assess

the true reason as to WHY that was the case. Brennan was, initially,

just plain scared to I.D. Oswald as the man who murdered JFK. And he

said as much in his official testimony given to the Warren Commission

on March 24, 1964. He feared that he and his family might be in some

danger if the assassination turned out to be the result of some wider

plot.

[...]

It's pretty clear that Brennan's affidavit includes a good general description

of the assassin he would later I.D. as Oswald:

"He was a white man in his early 30s, slender, nice looking, slender

and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds." -- Howard L. Brennan;

November 22, 1963

Many CTers also believe that Howard Brennan is full of nothing but hot

air and that his fingering of Oswald was a direct result of Brennan

having first seen LHO on TV or in the newspapers. However, this type of

argument is cut down several pegs when Brennan's INITIAL description of

the assassin in the window is taken into account. Brennan, just minutes

after the shooting, and well before he ever saw Oswald's picture or

knew who he was, described an assassin whose general features did fit

those of Lee Oswald, which would have been a pretty amazing

coincidence, indeed, if the real killer wasn't Oswald.

It would also be truly remarkable on the "coincidence" scale if Brennan

just happened, at random, to generally describe the owner of the rifle

that was found at 1:22 PM on the very same floor of the Book Depository

where Brennan saw this man firing "some type of a high-powered rifle"

(Brennan's WC words) at the President's vehicle. The totality of

Brennan's eyewitness testimony indicates one thing -- he saw Lee Harvey

Oswald shooting a gun at JFK.

Another theory that CTers seem to like quite a bit is the one that

claims it wasn't really Brennan who gave the first description of the

Depository sniper to the police just a few minutes after the shooting.

Conspiracists want to believe, evidently, that either the police simply

made up out of thin air the description of the assailant in the TSBD

.... or .... that it was some other (unknown and never identified)

person who gave DPD Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer the description of the

killer....which was a description that almost perfectly matched the one

Brennan gave in his 11/22 affidavit.

I don't deny that there was/is some confusion regarding who exactly it

was who gave the first description of the assassin to the police (which

was the basis for the initial APB broadcast by the DPD at 12:44 PM on

11/22/63). But to believe that it was someone other than Brennan who

gave Inspector Sawyer the description of the killer is to also believe

that two strange things occurred in relation to this "other" witness

(with #2 belonging in a separate "Very Odd And Amazingly Coincidental"

category):

1.) It was a witness who was never identified (and never bothered to

come forward to be identified), even though he is providing some of the

most important info in history.

2.) This unknown witness' physical description of the assassin just

happens to perfectly coincide with the info that Brennan supplied the

police and the Secret Service and (later) the Warren Commission.

Also -- If there WAS, in fact, yet ANOTHER witness who saw the exact

same thing that Brennan saw, this would tend to buttress (even more)

the notion that Oswald, or someone who looked very similar to Oswald,

was firing from just where Brennan said the man was firing from in the

Book Depository Building.

Herbert Sawyer broadcast the following description of the assassin over

the Dallas Police radio just at 12:44 PM, just 14 minutes after

President Kennedy was shot:

"The wanted person in this is a slender white male about 30, 5-feet-10,

165, carrying what looks to be a thirty-thirty or some type of

Winchester."

Now, the "30-30/Winchester" remark indicates that the description put

out over the DPD radio by Sawyer probably came from multiple sources,

one of which (given the physical description supplied) was almost

certainly Brennan." -- DVP; February 2006

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/howard-brennan.html

Edited by David Von Pein

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"He was a white man in his early 30s, slender, nice looking, slender

and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds." -- Howard L. Brennan;

November 22, 1963"

nice looking

Now we know he's lying!

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Why did LHO, after , supposedly, killing the President of the United States and a Dallas Police Officer decide to take in a movie (and not pay for the movie ticket)? I think his CIA handler told him to go the Texas Theater and then the handler (probably DAP) told Dulles where the killer / patsy was located and to have the police arrest him. Working with Dulles was Charles Cabell (both Dulles and Cabell were both fired by JFK for the Bay of Pigs fiasco), whose brother, Earle Cabell , the then Mayor of Dallas. It was Earle who told the Dallas Chief of Police to go get the killer - he is in the theatre.

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Good job, Chuck. You have managed to completely ignore the manner in which the police actually became aware of Lee Harvey Oswald's whereabouts in the Texas Theater, and instead you've decided it would be a good idea to just invent a bunch of crap about Dulles, Cabell, and that omnipresent "CIA handler".

Fantasy is a lot more intriguing than Julia Postal and Johnny Brewer, isn't it?

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2016/02/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1106.html

Edited by David Von Pein

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Good job, Chuck.

I think DVP meant that sarcastically, however, I'm not to sure about DVP. At times, it appears he's coming out from the dark side, he once called me Luke.

I'm still waiting on an answer as to how Oswald managed to look over his shoulder when all that time in Brewer's store Oswald according to Brewer "was staring at me." It appears the over the shoulder look didn't happen until the police officers made a U turn, but I almost forgot, by that time Oswald had also turned and walked towards the Texas Theater once owned by Howard Hughes.

Now, DVP can you run this by me once more so I understand this, Oswald turned while he was still in the store staring at Brewer and didn't walk away until the police went by is that correct, or was it at Zangs that Oswald makes his turn and walks to the Texas Theater, you see, that part always seems to get me.

Thanks for plugging me in at your site, I feel this overwhelming honor...

Edited by Scott Kaiser

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In Postal's testimony to the Warren Commission she says "This man is running from them for some reason" I have a few questions, if Mrs Postal wasn't around to see Oswald enter the theater how would she know he was running from them? If the counter clerk in the theater didn't see Oswald, and Mrs. Postal didn't see Oswald, and the only one who thought of anything suspicious was Brewer who informed Mrs. Postal about Oswald entering into the theater how do you suppose the phone call to the police panned out? Um, officer, I think the man who;'s running away from you for some reason is in my theater you may want to send the entire police station down here to check it out. In the mean while the police were driving up and down the streets looking for someone, but because this guy sneaks into the theater who could have been anyone, the entire police department elects to stop their search to check it out? It just doesn't make any sense to me

Edited by Scott Kaiser

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Now, DVP[,] can you run this by me once more so I understand this[?] Oswald turned while he was still in the store staring at Brewer and didn't walk away until the police went by[,] is that correct[?] [O]r was it at Zangs that Oswald makes his turn and walks to the Texas Theater[?] [Y]ou see, that part always seems to get me.

Good Lord. What in the world are you talking about?

Why are you trying to micro-manage every split-second of Johnny Brewer's testimony? Johnny said he saw Oswald come into the recessed open-air "lobby" in front of his shoe store (LHO didn't actually ENTER the store itself; that's fairly obvious from Brewer's testimony), and Oswald stood there looking at the shoes and at one point was staring at Brewer through the window. And then, a few seconds later (not simultaneously while he was staring at Brewer), Oswald looked over his shoulder after the police cars had passed by. Oswald then walked up toward the theater, and Brewer left his store and followed him.

Now, a much more important question is the one that follows for Scott R. Kaiser....

Why on Earth did anyone need to explain all of that to you?

~DVP patented shrug~

Edited by David Von Pein

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If Mrs. Postal wasn't around to see Oswald enter the theater[,] how would she know he was running from them?

She derived some of the information concerning Oswald from Johnny Brewer, of course.

And she deduced some info on her own, as she says in her affidavit:

Julia-Postal-Affidavit.png

And here's Johnny Brewer's affidavit:

Johnny-Brewer-Affidavit.gif

Edited by David Von Pein

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If Mrs. Postal wasn't around to see Oswald enter the theater[,] how would she know he was running from them?

She derived that information from Johnny Brewer, of course.

Again, this is blatantly obvious to anyone even halfway familiar with the Kennedy case.

Moved my post.

Edited by Scott Kaiser

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Now, DVP[,] can you run this by me once more so I understand this[?] Oswald turned while he was still in the store staring at Brewer and didn't walk away until the police went by[,] is that correct[?] [O]r was it at Zangs that Oswald makes his turn and walks to the Texas Theater[?] [Y]ou see, that part always seems to get me.

Good Lord. What in the world are you talking about?

Why are you trying to micro-manage every split-second of Johnny Brewer's testimony? Johnny said he saw Oswald come into the recessed open-air "lobby" in front of his shoe store (LHO didn't actually ENTER the store itself; that's fairly obvious from Brewer's testimony), and Oswald stood there looking at the shoes and at one point was staring at Brewer through the window. And then, a few seconds later (not simultaneously while he was staring at Brewer), Oswald looked over his shoulder after the police cars had passed by. Oswald then walked up toward the theater, and Brewer left his store and followed him.

Now, a much more important question is the one that follows for Scott R. Kaiser....

Why on Earth did anyone need to explain all of that to you?

~DVP patented shrug~

No, that's not what John said, what John said was Oswald came in my Lobby about 5ft and stood by the tennis shoes, but then when he was questioned about the shape of the front store windows he was asked if the front of his store looked like "V" or made a type of "U" shape? Yes, sir, now for me to understand this the from the exterior side of the door which is further in from the two side widows was 15ft away from the sidewalk, that would have meant Oswald was standing right near the exterior side of the door, but Johnny says Oswald was inside standing by the tennis shoes and was about 10ft away from him if Oswald was 5ft in the store, John said his store was about 20ft wide, so at what point does Oswald make his turn at Zangs which Brewer said he did if Oswald is in his store?

Edited by Scott Kaiser

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