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Jim Hargrove

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Oh, I see where you're confused now, Scott. You think Brewer was talking about OSWALD when he refers to the "U-turn at Zangs". But Brewer was referring to the POLICE CAR making a "U-turn" there, not Oswald. ....

Mr. BREWER - I heard the police cars coming up Jefferson, and he stepped in, and the police made a U-turn and went back down East Jefferson.

Mr. BELIN - Where did he make the U-turn?

Mr. BREWER - At Zangs.

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Oh, I see where you're confused now, Scott. You think Brewer was talking about OSWALD when he refers to the "U-turn at Zangs". But Brewer was referring to the POLICE CAR making a "U-turn" there, not Oswald. ....

Mr. BREWER - I heard the police cars coming up Jefferson, and he stepped in, and the police made a U-turn and went back down East Jefferson.

Mr. BELIN - Where did he make the U-turn?

Mr. BREWER - At Zangs.

I think Paul is right when he said he doesn't understand me, I don't think anyone does.

Good night David.

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Mr. BELIN - When did he go in now? What did you hear at the time that he stepped into this lobby area?
Mr. BREWER - I heard the police cars coming up Jefferson, and he stepped in, and the police made a U-turn and went back down East Jefferson.
Mr. BELIN - Where did he make the U-turn? Not, where did the police make their U turn! Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm never understood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mr. BREWER - At Zangs.

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EDIT TO THIS POST -- After looking at Mrs. Postal's 12/4/63 affidavit, I see I was incorrect about the "ticket" information. Postal, in her affidavit, says that she definitely DID inform the police that the suspect in the theater had not purchased a ticket (after the policeman on the phone asked her if he had bought a ticket). So I stand corrected on that point.

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Mr. BELIN - When did he go in now? What did you hear at the time that he stepped into this lobby area?

Mr. BREWER - I heard the police cars coming up Jefferson, and he stepped in, and the police made a U-turn and went back down East Jefferson.

Mr. BELIN - Where did he make the U-turn? Not, where did the police make their U turn! Ugh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm never understood!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mr. BREWER - At Zangs.

Oh, come now, Scott! You can't be serious!

You actually think Belin meant OSWALD when he said "HE" in that U-turn question?

Brewer had just talked about a police car making a U-turn before Belin asked that question about a "U-turn". The "HE" that Belin was referring to was the MALE POLICEMAN in his police car, which Brewer had just a second earlier said had made a "U-turn".

Also -- Do you think the term "U-turn" sounds more like they were talking about a PERSON or a VEHICLE?

Edited by David Von Pein

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I understand the line of questioning when counsel asked about the U turn after Mr. Brewer made the statement, but what I'm still trying to understand, and if you can help me out here is this. When counsel asked Mr. BELIN - What you call this lobby, that is the area between the sidewalk and your front door, is that correct? that would be the outside area where I mention earlier and you point out, but Mr. Brewer says in his 1963 taped interview that this man came 5ft in and stood by the tennis shoes, am I also wrong in misunderstanding that too?

Edited by Scott Kaiser

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Scott,

Brewer meant that Oswald came about 5 feet into the recessed area. But LHO never actually entered the store itself. The lobby area was several feet deep, as you can see in the video below (which includes yet another brief interview with Johnny Brewer)....

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Reporter - Johnny when was the first time you saw Lee Harvey Oswald?

Johnny - Ah, I saw him at Friday afternoon of November 22, he ah, walked into the Lobby of my store.

Reporter - How far in did he walk in there John for example?

Johnny - Ah just a few feet he was standing right where those tennis shoes are right there just about five feet from the door there

Reporter - What made you suspicious of this man who walked into the Lobby?

Johnny - Blah, blah, blah...

At no time did Mr. Brewer ever say he (Oswald) stood outside the front door, at no time did the reporter ask if Oswald was between the front door and the sidewalk, leading to believe he was standing on the exterior part of the store, at no time did Mr. Brewer suggest he was on the other side of the front door where you say Oswald stood.

And, where Oliver Stone has place him in his movie.

Now, he may call that part of the store the Lobby, but at no time does he say, Oswald stood in the Lobby on the exterior or on the other side of the front door. What he does say is everything Oswald is doing, is inside his store, and when anyone tells me, you're in the Lobby of my store I'm thinking, I'm standing inside the store, not outside. The outside is more consider a storefront entrance.

Edited by Scott Kaiser

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Scott,

Brewer meant that Oswald came about 5 feet into the recessed area. But LHO never actually entered the store itself. The lobby area was several feet deep, as you can see in the video below (which includes yet another brief interview with Johnny Brewer)....

Why is the video edited just before it starts to pan towards the store? I was a painting contractor that did a number of retail stores, many stores like this one, and I am not sure where he gets his numbers from that this storefront door although recessed is not 15 ft from the sidewalk, and it's not as deep as you think, those store fronts are all built to code in-case of fire, there isn't one store any deeper then the other. Those recessed storefront doors are at the most seven feet from the sidewalk, in-fact the entire length of the storefront half wall window is seven ft in length from the outside corner to front door entrance, so if Oswald had been standing five ft. away from the front door at the storefront entrance he would have been standing closer to the sidewalk then the store. If true, at that angle from inside the store how could Brewer notice how he was acting all suspicious, this isn't making any sense.

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Why did LHO, after , supposedly, killing the President of the United States and a Dallas Police Officer decide to take in a movie (and not pay for the movie ticket)? I think his CIA handler told him to go the Texas Theater and then the handler (probably DAP) told Dulles where the killer / patsy was located and to have the police arrest him. Working with Dulles was Charles Cabell (both Dulles and Cabell were both fired by JFK for the Bay of Pigs fiasco), whose brother, Earle Cabell , the then Mayor of Dallas. It was Earle who told the Dallas Chief of Police to go get the killer - he is in the theatre.

Besides ignoring all the things I mentioned about the phony DPD/WC inquiry into the movie theater, and not even asking who Garrison's third witness was, DVP does not even know that there was a little alley right before the Texas Theater as you walked down that street.

Secondly, as you went into the concession area after you entered the theater, there was a stairs going to the mezzanine. If Butch Burroughs did not see Oswald at this time going into the first floor, then its likely that Oswald went up the stairs, because he could not have missed him.

To deny that something was happening here is to not read very closely Postal's testimony and to ignore the DPD reports and the Haire report.

Something was happening.

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...its [sic] likely that Oswald went up the stairs....

Maybe he did go upstairs. So what?

Oswald could have initially dashed up to the balcony, and then (a little later) he came back downstairs.

Why is that scenario not possible in the CT world?

Burroughs, who was busy stocking candy in the candy case, could have easily missed seeing Oswald moving around nearby. He obviously DID miss seeing Oswald enter the theater from the street. There can be no question about that fact (given the observations provided by Brewer and Postal, who saw Oswald go into the theater).

Edited by David Von Pein

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"He was a white man in his early 30s, slender, nice looking, slender

and would weigh about 165 to 175 pounds." -- Howard L. Brennan;

November 22, 1963

Many CTers also believe that Howard Brennan is full of nothing but hot

air and that his fingering of Oswald was a direct result of Brennan

having first seen LHO on TV or in the newspapers. However, this type of

argument is cut down several pegs when Brennan's INITIAL description of

the assassin in the window is taken into account. Brennan, just minutes

after the shooting, and well before he ever saw Oswald's picture or

knew who he was, described an assassin whose general features did fit

those of Lee Oswald, which would have been a pretty amazing

coincidence, indeed, if the real killer wasn't Oswald.

It would also be truly remarkable on the "coincidence" scale if Brennan

just happened, at random, to generally describe the owner of the rifle

that was found at 1:22 PM on the very same floor of the Book Depository

where Brennan saw this man firing "some type of a high-powered rifle"

(Brennan's WC words) at the President's vehicle. The totality of

Brennan's eyewitness testimony indicates one thing -- he saw Lee Harvey

Oswald shooting a gun at JFK.

So let's see about the description.

White man-- Check

Early Thirties. No match- Oswald was mid twenties.

Slender, good looking- check

165/170lbs..... No match - Oswald was 133 lbs.

He had on light coloured clothing. No match - Oswald was dressed in dark clothes.

And you think that matches Oswald's description.

Wanna buy a bridge, Dave?

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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"Even the age of the assassin Brennan saw fits perfectly with Marrion Baker's incorrect estimate of Lee Oswald's age -- about 30 -- which we know is wrong, but we also know that the man Baker described as being "approximately 30 years old" WAS Lee Harvey Oswald and not somebody who could have merely been confused with Oswald.

And then there are the "weight" estimates provided by Brennan and Baker in their individual affidavits, which also (just like the "age" estimate) blend together perfectly:

Baker said -- "165 pounds".

Brennan said -- "165 to 175 pounds".

And, just like Baker's estimate for Oswald's age, the weight estimate he provided in his affidavit is wrong, but we still know that Baker was estimating the weight of the real Lee Harvey Oswald when he wrote down "165 pounds" in his 11/22/63 affidavit.

Ergo, we know that it is, indeed, possible for a person to look right at Lee Harvey Oswald on November 22, 1963, and think he weighed as much as 165 pounds. Shouldn't this fact mean just a little something to CTers when they attempt to assess whether or not Howard Brennan could have possibly seen Oswald in the Sniper's Nest on that same day?

Do CTers think that Baker and Brennan got together and swapped information so that their affidavits would merge perfectly with respect to both the "age" and "weight" estimates?" -- DVP; August 2015

More....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/08/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1000.html

Edited by David Von Pein

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