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# Swan-Song -- Math Rules

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Sandy, if you would like to continue, here is an excerpt from you:

"if the limo slowed way down"

Where in these two versions of CE884 did the limo slow way down?

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Chris,

I didn't even know about this thread. You mentioned it, but I assumed it was an old one before my time because I hadn't seen it. (Till right now.)

I haven't any idea what you are doing with this. I don't know what you're goal is or what you are trying to prove. All this is completely new to me. Does it have to do with the limo slowing way down, possibly to a complete stop, for the head shot? As many witnesses said?

Ollie mention the number 48 FPS and I had no idea what he was talking about. Why would a camera have running at 48 FPS. Later as I continued to read the thread I came to realize it was in a WC reconstruction. So okay, that makes sense.

But still, I have no idea what you guys are doing. But it looks interesting.

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Sandy, if you would like to continue, here is an excerpt from you:

"if the limo slowed way down"

Where in these two versions of CE884 did the limo slow way down?

I don't know why they chose those particular fame numbers. The aren't evenly spaced (by number or frames lapsed, or time). They aren't evenly spaced by distance the limo traveled. That's obvious by seeing that frames 207 and 208 are in the table and there are zero frames between them, yet there are ~57 frames missing between 255 and 313.

I recognize some special frame numbers, 313 head shot of course. 225 for supposed throat shot. (I say supposed because I believe that shot was actually to the back, and that it caused a collapse lung, and that Kennedy is struggling for air.) Frame 255 is when the Altgens 6 photo was shot. But I don't know about the others. So naturally I have no idea why the WC changed some of the numbers.

Okay, I just found and read a little background in "Assassination Science." The frame numbers were just "selected," for whatever reason. From reading the book it appears this is related to the WC exhibit which shows the head shot was like 40 feet further down Elm than shown on Zapruder.

Okay, that helps a bit. But the fudged frame numbers in the table above are off by only a few frames. Doesn't seem to be related.

My mind is wandering.... I don't know what to make of this. I'll read the thread from now on and hopefully I'll catch on.

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The Z film has always been a valuable piece of evidence in the case. Unless I'm overlooking it, can someone take a moment to explain what it the point of this thread? Thank you.

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Okay, that helps a bit. But the fudged frame numbers in the table above are off by only a few frames. Doesn't seem to be related.

Sandy,

Incremental changes are created for exactly that reason.

There is a triangle formed which must be in sync/accurate (leads back to the 6th floor snipers nest) to prove WC/FBI/SS truthfulness.

On Elm St, part of the triangle formation is rate x time = distance

Entries for Zframes 161-166 and 168-171 are indicative of adjustments made to create the desired triangle.

chris

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The Z film has always been a valuable piece of evidence in the case. Unless I'm overlooking it, can someone take a moment to explain what it the point of this thread? Thank you.

Michael,

A valuable piece for whom?

If you are interested, take the gif and count the total number of frames.

Compare it (frame count) to the same segment in the extant Zfilm?

Minus your preconceived notion that the extant zfilm is authentic, what major difference is there between the two?

chris

Edited by Chris Davidson

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The rear bumper represents the location(Station#) of JFK within the limo, which equals a shot impact location(Station#).

The front bumper is represented by the pylon.

How would you know what the distance is between these two points?

Hint: Look at post #3.

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Chris,

I realize this is not the point of what you are doing here, but along the way have you made any determination as to the when the back shot occurred? As in, before or after the throat shoat or even better whatever Z frame corresponds to the backshot...

Thanks! And keep up the great work.

Tom

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Chris,

I realize this is not the point of what you are doing here, but along the way have you made any determination as to the when the back shot occurred? As in, before or after the throat shoat or even better whatever Z frame corresponds to the backshot...

Thanks! And keep up the great work.

Tom

Tom,

From Tom P. via Robert West:

The 163.65ft flatline distance would equate to JFK's physical location(Station#3+71.1) within the limo at extant zframe 207.

Sorry, back or throat I'm not concerned with at this time.

chris

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The rear bumper represents the location(Station#) of JFK within the limo, which equals a shot impact location(Station#).

The front bumper is represented by the pylon.

How would you know what the distance is between these two points?

Hint: Look at post #3.

The length of the limo is 21.34ft.

Altgen's said he was approximately 15ft away at the last shot.

Elm St. lanes were how wide? I'll let you figure that out.

Since Altgens is somewhat behind the curb, at extant z352, add that to the lane width and compare with Altgens estimation.

chris

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Chris,

I realize this is not the point of what you are doing here, but along the way have you made any determination as to the when the back shot occurred? As in, before or after the throat shoat or even better whatever Z frame corresponds to the backshot...

Thanks! And keep up the great work.

Tom

Tom,

From Tom P. via Robert West:

The 163.65ft flatline distance would equate to JFK's physical location(Station#3+71.1) within the limo at extant zframe 207.

Sorry, back or throat I'm not concerned with at this time.

chris

Chris,

This will do QUITE nicely, THANKS!

Tom

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Chris,

I realize this is not the point of what you are doing here, but along the way have you made any determination as to the when the back shot occurred? As in, before or after the throat shoat or even better whatever Z frame corresponds to the backshot...

Thanks And keep up the great work.

Tom

Tom,

On the SS 12-5-63/FBI combo survey plat, if you look closely, someone(possibly West) marked extant z207. This mark is the 163.65ft flatline distance West measured.

If, which I don't believe, the frame numbers were assigned in late January of 1964 by Shaneyfelt, this would mean the plat was labeled during the FBI

recreation of February 1964.

The X #1 designation is supposed to represent where the SS/FBI determined the first shot occurring.

This is actually 10.2ft father west than Robert West's 163.65 flatline distance = extant z207.

Possibility of two shots melded into one, otherwise, not enough time between shots. Along with the syncing distance of shots farther down Elm St.

chris

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Okay, that helps a bit. But the fudged frame numbers in the table above are off by only a few frames. Doesn't seem to be related.

Sandy,

Incremental changes are created for exactly that reason.

There is a triangle formed which must be in sync/accurate (leads back to the 6th floor snipers nest) to prove WC/FBI/SS truthfulness.

On Elm St, part of the triangle formation is rate x time = distance

Entries for Zframes 161-166 and 168-171 are indicative of adjustments made to create the desired triangle.

chris

Can you tell me what the three points of the triangle are?

If I were to assume (for sake of argument) that the three points are:

1. Sniper's nest, at the end of the rifle barrel.
3. The spot directly below Point 1, at the elevation of Point 2. (This would probably be underground.)

(BTW, If it is not obvious, this would make a right triangle. Though this type of triangle makes sense to me, it is not relevant to the point I want to make here.)

It is obvious that adjusting the frame number by a few frames in this example would make little difference in the triangle. So I'm guessing that the triangle you are referring to is nothing like mine.

(Reading ahead, I see that JFK's wound is not one of the three triangle points. Rather, the point would be the X on the road representing the location of the rear bumper of the limo at the time of the shot. That's fine, but note that would have little effect on my triangle, and so that doesn't change what I say and ask here in this post.)

Again, my question is, can you tell me what the three points of the triangle are?

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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You are correct. Those are the three points of the triangle.

A right triangle plus (angle to horizon) from rifle barrel end to JFK's head.

Just to make sure you are clear on this next point:

The X represents JFK's physical location on Elm St.

The rear bumper represents the X (JFK's physical location=Station# in surveyors terms).

The difference being: JFK's head height at the time of a head shot is not the bumper height.

The slope of Elm St. during the recreation was determined to be 3deg8min = 3.13 degrees.

This slope equals a 1ft vertical per 18.3ft horizontal distance ratio.

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On the SS 12-5-63/FBI combo survey plat, if you look closely, someone(possibly West) marked extant z207. This mark is the 163.65ft flatline distance West measured.

The z207 mark on the plat is inside the red box? It's too small for me to read...

The X #1 designation is supposed to represent where the SS/FBI determined the first shot occurring.

This is actually 10.2ft father west than Robert West's 163.65 flatline distance = extant z207.

So the FBI has taken their original location of the 1st shot and relocated it 10.2 down Elm St. in the direction the limo was traveling.

Do you have any thoughts as to WHO was the architect of these synchronized new locations?

Tom

Edited by Tom Neal