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# Swan-Song -- Math Rules

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Mr. TRULY. That is right.
And the President's car following close behind came along at an average speed of 10 or 15 miles an hour. It wasn't that much, because they were getting ready to turn. And the driver of the Presidential car swung out too far to the right, and he came almost within an inch of running into this little abutment here, between Elm and the Parkway. And he slowed down perceptibly and pulled back to the left to get over into the middle lane of the parkway. Not being familiar with the street, he came too far out this way when he made his turn.
Mr. BELIN. He came too far to the north before he made his curve, and as he curved--as he made his left turn from Houston onto the street leading to the expressway, he almost hit this north curb?
Mr. TRULY. That is right. Just before he got to it, he had to almost stop, to pull over to the leftIf he had maintained his speed, he would probably have hit this little section here.

So Chris...  the 33 frames are for both the time and Distance?  Since your white limo path is what it "appears" to be while my black limo is more suggestive of what actually happened..

Mr. David Healy (calling D Healy) - how in the world did they remove that from the TOWNER FILM and still make it look like a normal speed turn???  The car in Weigman is pointing more North and at the little curb... while the limo appears not to even come close...

??

No mention at all of TOWNER or the film so the establishment of POSITION A is undertaken with the ASSUMPTION that the limo carrying JFK traveled thru that position...

To repeat..  the FBI's SHANEYFELT confirms for us via a SPECTER question that the limo and by association JFK MUST PASS THRU POSITION A on this journey...

Mr. SPECTER. When you say that position A is the first position at which President Kennedy was in view of the marksman from the southeast window on the sixth floor of the School Book Depository Building, you mean by that the first position where the marksman saw the rear of the President's stand-in?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct.

To recap... at a spot that is all but impossible to pass thru unless TRULY's account is correct, is the location from where a marksman could FIRST hit a spot on the back of the POTUS stand-in.

Yet it is obvious that the limo could roll back quite a bit before the crosshairs cannot see the back of the stand-in...  yet the stand-in in 10" higher than where JFK was...
To place a crosshair at that spot on JFK he'd need to be 10" lower in elevation which means he was 15.25 feet further down Elm than what we see in the photo at the top right.

As we've learned, those 10" were moved to the window sill to further complicate matters...

Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. Since it was not practical to stop the projector when using the original of the Zapruder film, because of the possibility of damage to the film, Mr. Orth volunteered to prepare 35-mm. color slides directly from the original movie of all of the pertinent frames of the assassination which were determined to be frames 171 through 434.

Mr. SPECTER. What other movies have been examined by you in the course of this analysis?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. An amateur 8-mm. motion picture film made by a Mr. Orville Nix of Dallas, Tex., has been examined   (DJ: starts well after 161)

Mr. SPECTER. Did you analyze any other film in connection with this inquiry?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. I analyzed a film that was 8-mm. motion picture film taken by Mrs. Mary Muchmore of Dallas, Tex.

Except Muchmore claims she did not film any assassination scenes...

Mr. Shaneyfelt:   .....Since she did not remember taking the pictures, we then, in the same manner we established Mr. Nix's position, by checking the photograph in relation to objects in the background, established her position along this structure that is marked on the map and found that she had come from the curb over to this point----

Mr. SPECTER. I now hand you an album which has been marked as Commission Exhibit No. 885.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 885 for identification.)
Mr. SPECTER. I ask you to state what that album depicts.
Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is an album that I prepared of black and white photographs made of the majority of the frames in the Zapruder film----
Mr. SPECTER. Starting with what frame number?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. Starting with frame 171, going through frame 334.
Mr. SHANEYFELT. This is the frame that the slides start from. This was an arbitrary frame number that was decided on as being far enough back to include the area that we wanted to study.
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Mr. SHANEYFELT. The first position we established that morning was frame 161.

How does one start with frame 171 and then establish frame 161's position...  when one assumes that frame 161 actually existed in sequence on the Zapruder film...

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Mr. SHANEYFELT. Life magazine was reluctant to release the original because of the value. So he brought it down personally and projected it for us and allowed us to run through it several times, studying the original.

Mr. SPECTER. Was that because the copies were not distinct on certain important particulars?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. That is correct. The original had considerably more detail and more there to study than any of the copies, since in the photographic process each time you copy you lose some detail.
Mr. SPECTER. And subsequently, were slides made from the original of the Zapruder film?
Mr. SHANEYFELT. Yes. Since it was not practical to stop the projector when using the original of the Zapruder film, because of the possibility of damage to the film, Mr. Orth volunteered to prepare 35-mm. color slides directly from the original movie of all of the pertinent frames of the assassination which were determined to be frames 171 through 434. (and back to the top - and round and round we go)

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David J,

If I put JFK where Position A is designated, the lane stripe is blocked by the limo.

This is the only way it works.

It matches, using Robert West's designated path.

My filming location for Towner.

Greer in alignment with the concrete structure.

JFK in alignment with the tree.

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Reenactment similar to previous posting.

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On ‎4‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 5:18 PM, Chris Davidson said:

David J,

If I put JFK where Position A is designated, the lane stripe is blocked by the limo.

This is the only way it works.

It matches, using Robert West's designated path.

My filming location for Towner.

Greer in alignment with the concrete structure.

JFK in alignment with the tree.

I hear you buddy... yet from the reread it is obvious that this analysis assumes the limo and JFK passes thru POSITION A and is then at 133 with the Queen Mary directly behind it.
Not sure why Truly is the only one to mention it yet we see no one really asking about it either.

But let's make the assumption that JFK passes thru POS A - how do we explain these frames?

Can you answer me a question about the TOWNER image you posted and I include here but from a fraction later...

Where is TOWNER while filming this?  (edit - and we see there is no one in the line of sight....)

Edited by David Josephs

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2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Where is TOWNER while filming this?  (edit - and we see there is no one in the line of sight....)

She would be in the LOS of the rightside blue line and off the curb a few feet.

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This is the closest I can find from Towner's view via the cameraman, with the Z pedestal and the curved curb included.

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25 minutes ago, Chris Davidson said:

She would be in the LOS of the rightside blue line and off the curb a few feet.

I appreciate what you are saying Chris...

but please point out TOWNER in the Zapruder frames

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Towards the end of her film, someone appears in the sprocket hole area.

I would assume it is her father since he has a camera in hand.

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21 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

I appreciate what you are saying Chris...

but please point out TOWNER in the Zapruder frames

The gentleman with the pink shirt and white pants.

Watch as someone pokes their head around his left side and then pulls back.

You can barely see him until he moves.

He is much taller than Tina Towner.

She is off the curb, in the street making her even shorter than those in front, who are on the sidewalk.

That is approx where Tina Towner is.

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On 4/23/2018 at 9:33 AM, Chris Davidson said:

Towner 167frames shifted to start at StationC:

Discounting 30ft over 166.666frames:

30ft/166.666 = .18ft per frame

CE884 (z161-z166 @18.3fps) = 3.294ft per sec = .9ft traveled in 5 frames = .18ft per frame traveled

Start at StationC

End at Station 299.0 = Frame 100

Jump the frame count by 33 = extant z133

Discount the span (no data) from z133-z166 = 33frames/30ft

Accommodate the (Towner end- z133 beginning )distance span with path change.

End at extant z166 = Shaneyfelt (not Robert West) path via extant zfilm.

StationC + 100 + 33 + 33 = 166frames.

Myers accommodates (using inside tire radius) for the 30ft = a loss of .18ft per frame over 167 Towner frames including the distance gap to z133 this way:

Add his total distance in the graphic = 83.68ft

There are 6 Towner beginning frames which need to be included in the distance:

11.28ft/26frames = .4338...ft per frame x 6 frames = 2.6ft + 83.68ft = 86.28ft total for Towner film.

The plotting of JFK using Robert West's path for the Towner film = 110.90ft approx.

110.90 - 86.28 = 24.62ft

24.62ft + 5.625 (gap between Towner end and Z133 beginning) = 30.245ft

The .18ft per frame difference evolves this way:

110.90ft + 5.625ft = 116.525ft/ 167 frames = .6977...ft per frame

86.28ft/167frames = .5166...ft per frame

.6977 - .5166 = .181ft per frame

Edited by Chris Davidson

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Marc Bell's footage from the pedestal allows us to compare an overlapping area within the Towner film.

Remember, no matter who is filming with what camera, the limo is traveling the same speed.

+/- 1 frame for the following

From his location, Bell's outer LOS lines = 32.1875ft @ 41 frames = .785...ft per frame

The Towner LOS from StationC to the Tree = 38.685ft @ 60frames = .644..ft per frame.

We need the same distance among both so:

38.685 - 32.1875 = 6.4975ft

6.4975 / .785ft per frame = 8.27frames

8.27frames + 41 = 49.27frames

This creates a ratio of frames to frames over the same distance using two different frame rates.

Since Myers used a phony frame rate of 22.8fps for Towner, it is more than likely, the ratio between that and the real Towner frame rate (+/- 1 frame) would hold true for Towner and Bell also.

A real frame rate of 18.3 for Towner vs 22.8 yields the 33 frame difference over 167 Towner frames (previously shown).

60/18.3 = 3.278...sec

3.278...sec x 15fps49.18 frames

60/48.08(+/- 1 frame) = 1.2479... x 18.3 = 22.83fps = Myers bogus rate.

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Look at BELL...

We see the limo, Willis running with another lady in blue with a camera...

The car labeled "Bell limo" replicates the location of the limo in the frame grab below it...  from BELL the corner of the TSBD opening is in line with that concrete opening.

How do we reconcile this with this image showing the turn in TOWNER...

Is it possible that there were well more than 7 frames removed?  Hughes cuts as the Queen Mary's turn is halfway done...

Just trying to see how it actually happened...    take a close look at TOWNER again....  the FLV file you posted.

Chris... the limo gets smaller as it moves away - at the same time the background gets bigger?

The bottom image is an earlier frame than the top one...

In the top one the limo has gotten farther away from TOWNER, therefore the subject gets smaller...
but as the limo moves away, the column gets bigger in the frame while we do not lose any depth of field for the motorcycles and the road...  if the camera zoomed in we'd lose the street and these cops would get bigger too....

Calling DAVID HEALY....   Help please.  This looks to me like the matte job you spoke of related to Zapruder....

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Both thinking the same thing buddy...

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On 4/24/2018 at 12:36 AM, David Josephs said:

o Chris...  the 33 frames are for both the time and Distance?

Someday I hope this thread can be presented - maybe even as a video - and titled Math Rules for Dummies. I'd sign up.

Edited by Robert Harper

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2 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Look at BELL...

How do we reconcile this with this image showing the turn in TOWNER...

There is a TSBD corner overlap between Bell/Towner.

The graphic shows Bell's LOS using JFK's position within the limo.

At this spot, JFK is approx 6.1ft (green box) from TSBD corner alignment.

The speed of the limo is 23.75ft/29frames (plotted average from Dal-Tex to TSBD corner) = .818ft per frame.

6.1ft/.818ft per frame = 7.45frames

There are 6 previous Bell frames leading up to JFK's position in the graphic.

Bell's footage starts approx 13.45 Bell frames before JFK aligns with the TSBD corner.