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Sandy Larsen

Officer Marrion Baker's mad dash for the.... Dal-Tex building?

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Just now, Bill Miller said:

Hi Richard!

I found in Truly's testimony that Baker did move people out of his way on his run to the TSBD, That was the corroboration I was looking for that took things beyond supposition. Here is how Truly described Officer Marion Baker's run ....

Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it.
I think there were a lot of people trying to get out of the way of something. They didn't know what.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do or see?
Mr. TRULY. I heard a policeman in this area along here make a remark, "Oh, goddam," or something like that. I just remember that. It wasn't a motorcycle policeman. It was one of the Dallas policeman, I think-- words to that effect. I wouldn't know him. I just remember there was a policeman standing along in this area about 7, 8, or 10 feet from me.
But as I came back here, and everybody. was screaming and hollering, just moments later - I saw a young motorcycle policeman run up to the building, up the steps to the entrance of our building. [Officer Baker} ran right by me. And he was pushing people out of the way. He pushed a number of people out of the way before he got to me. I saw him coming through, I believe. As he ran up the stairway--I mean up the steps, I was almost to the steps, I ran up and caught up with him. I believe I caught up with him inside the lobby of the building, or possibly the front steps. I don't remember that close. But I remember it occurred to me that this man wants on top of the building. He doesn't know the plan of the floor. And-that is-that just pepped in my mind, and I ran in with him. As we got in the lobby, almost on the inside of the first floor, this policeman asked me where the stairway is. And I said, "This way". And I ran diagonally across to the northwest corner of the building.

 

And yet hardly anybody noticed him.

I wonder why he ran toward the Elm/Houston intersection first.

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4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

And yet hardly anybody noticed him.

I wonder why he ran toward the Elm/Houston intersection first.

Sandy .... Baker heard the first shot while on Houston and turned onto Elm where he then parked his cycle a few feet short of the stop-light. He paused for a moment and looked down the street to see people falling to the ground and proceeded to run towards the steps of the TSBD. His last leap is onto the sidewalk in front of the steps. One could say Baker was undecided as to which  building the shots came from (Dal-tex or TSBD) and chose one at the last second if they like. All I am saying is that there is no evidence that he was going anywhere but to steps in my view.

http://imgur.com/TZk0Ekm

 

Don Roberdeau's updated map

http://imgur.com/QcAKTOp

 

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No evidence he went up the steps either. Frazier never saw him and neither did Molina. These two witnesses were standing directly in front of the door. Don't you find that odd?

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35 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

No evidence he went up the steps either. Frazier never saw him and neither did Molina. These two witnesses were standing directly in front of the door. Don't you find that odd?

 

I do not find it odd that anyone either didn't recall or witness Baker's run if their attention was drawn towards the RR Yard and the street below the knoll in times of great stress and/or confusion. Luckily for us there are films showing the dash from the cycle to the entrance of the TSBD and a witness (Roy Truly) who gave chase after Baker when thinking the Officer was rushing towards Roy's work place for whatever reason and may need his assistance once inside.

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Well, if you believe it, Bill, good for you. And if you believe Truly, good for you, too. 

BTW, shouldn't we be able to see, in the Couch/Darnell film, Truly being "borne back" to the steps by a large, panicky mob? Or was he lying about that too?

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1 hour ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Well, if you believe it, Bill, good for you. And if you believe Truly, good for you, too. 

BTW, shouldn't we be able to see, in the Couch/Darnell film, Truly being "borne back" to the steps by a large, panicky mob? Or was he lying about that too?

If you go back a few post to the one I made to Sandy Larsen, then you will find the link to Don Roberdeau's Map which has been done to scale. Truly's position has been marked and would have been just out of the frame of the two films you mention. In the movie file also provided there appears to be a man in a suit just entering the Darnell frame as the clip stops and I believe this is Mr. Truly watching the motorcycle officer running towards his building.

The being 'bore back' was a figure of speech as I read it. 

Mr. TRULY. I heard an explosion, which I thought was a toy cannon or a loud firecracker from west of the building. Nothing happened at this first explosion. Everything was frozen. And immediately after two more explosions, which I realized that I thought was a gun, a rifle of some kind.

The President's--I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in this area. It is misleading here. And that is the last I saw of his ear, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front--they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building.
Mr. BELIN. When you saw the President's car seem to stop, how long did it appear to stop?
Mr. TRULY. It would be hard to say over a second or two or something like that. I didn't see I just saw it stop. I don't know. I didn't see it start up.
Mr. BELIN. Then you stopped looking at it, or you were distracted by something else?
Mr. TRULY. Yes. The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers, and I lost sight of it.
I think there were a lot of people trying to get out of the way of something. They didn't know what.

And a little later when talking about how fast Truly estimated he ran at the time of the assassination compared to the run he made for the Commission - Truly said ...

Mr. TRULY. I said when the officer and I ran in, we were shouldering people aside in front of the building, so-we possibly were slowed a little bit more coming in than we were when he and I came in March 20th. I don't believe so. But it wouldn't be enough to matter there.

 

Mr's Reid and OV Cambell were standing out by the street near Roy Truly watching the motorcade go by. Mr. Cambell said to the FBI this about the motorcycle policeman riding up and getting of his cycle and running into the TSBD ...

OCHUS V. CAMPBELL, 7120 Twin Lakes Lane, Dallas, Texas, furnished the following information:

He is the Vice President of the Texas School Book Depository Company, with offices located on the second floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building in Dallas.

On November 22, 1963, he was present at his office at the above named building and at about 12:30 PM on that day, he and several other associates were together stationed about 30 feet in front of this building facing away from the building observing the passing motorcade containing President KENNEDY. At this time, he heard a loud report, which at first he considered to be a fire cracker or some object set off by a crank and believed the noise came from away from his building. This illusion, he explained, may have been due to the sound bouncing off the building and other objects in the vicinity. After hearing two more such reports, he realized they must have been rifle shots and since President KENNEDY's car had advanced just out of his vision, he went forward a few feet to observe this automobile, inasmuch as he feared that the rifle shots were in connection with an attempt upon President KENNEDY's life. He then observed the car bearing President KENNEDY to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately rushed into his building without having seen anything unusual from any window of his building. Inside he was told shortly thereafter by the warehouse superintendent, Mr. TRULY, that all the employees of the company had been rounded up and one employee, LEE HARVEY OSWALD, was missing.

 

Edited by Bill Miller

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" The being 'bore back' was a figure of speech as I read it."

Oh sure, anything inconvenient in someone's testimony, must be just a "figure of speech". Suuure, Bill.

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The only two pieces of evidence to support Baker making an immediate run up the steps of the TSBD, outside of very questionable statements and testimony from Roy Truly, Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady, are third party reports from Ochus Campbell and Pauline Sanders written by the FBI. Many of these third party FBI "reports" have been shown to be less than credible, and some have been shown to be outright fabrications.

Ochus Campbell's actual first person statement to the FBI was given, on March 19, 1964, to Special Agents Raymond Switzer and Eugene Petrakis, and may be found at this link:

http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf

His first person statement of 19/03/64 to the FBI makes no mention of Baker.

Oddly enough, Campbell gave no first day statement, as so many other TSBD witnesses did.

Edited by Robert Prudhomme

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17 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

And yet hardly anybody noticed him.

I wonder why he ran toward the Elm/Houston intersection first.

I think he was trying to intercept Running Woman to ask he what she'd (obviously) seen.  He looks at her quite a bit while they're both running.

--  Tommy :sun

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1 hour ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

" The being 'bore back' was a figure of speech as I read it."

Oh sure, anything inconvenient in someone's testimony, must be just a "figure of speech". Suuure, Bill.

Truly himself described the movement of the people in front of him as "bore back" one time and again as "surged back" another time ... both describing the crowd moving away from any lines of fire in reaction to shots being fired. Truly: " And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic " .  And again Truly described what he was talking about when mentioning his losing sight of the  President's car after it slowed down -  Truly:  " The crowd in front of me kind of congealed around me and bore me back through weight of numbers  ".

So yes - with three descriptions of the crowds movement backing away from the line of fire - it was a figure of speech in my opinion. It is not my intention to debate with you what I see as common sense based on the assassination images and Truly's account of seeing the motorcycle officer running towards his building. He considered the officer must have a reason for immediately going there and it is reasonable that he gave chase to follow the police officer.

There will always be individuals looking for anything sinister even when what they think have stumbled upon has no bearing on there being a conspiracy in the murder of JFK. On example is when I recently viewed a copy of Altgens 6 where someone placed text on that photo stating that a Service Agent was smiling when the first shot(s) were fired. The man referred to as a Secret Service Agent was long time friend to JFK - David Powers. So if a witness doesn't register seeing Baker come up the steps because their attention was on the President and what's going on down the street, then they are presumed covering for someone or an event like with Officer Baker didn't happen? When a witness does mention seeing someone like Officer Baker running into the TSBD, then they must be lying? In Truly's case, such suspicion seems ludicrous for what would be his motive for lying about a motorcycle officer running into a building for who he didn't even know? What person would want to get drawn into being a suspect in the murder of the President of the United States. Truly went as far as to say how Baker's climb up the steps was slowed due to people in front of the officer, which obviously allowed Truly to gain some ground on Baker. Both men were then immediately seen together inside the TSBD were they not. I have to consider that at the time Truly testified before the Commission that he could not have known the total of what films and photos that would later be brought forth, so again what would be his motive of making something up that he doesn't know can be refuted with film evidence which then makes him look like he was involved in JFK's murder after the fact .... all so to say a motorcycle cop parked his bike and ran immediately into the TSBD?

As an investigator - I have to consider these things in their totality. The invention of scenarios that have no evidence to support them is not productive for me. Others can do it and seemingly do, but where does it stop. If one wishes to continue that way of thinking far enough, then why not just say the entire crowd in Dealey Plaza were in on the assassination because some kind of inference of suspicion can be applied to about everyone who was there. I don't want to stop you or anyone else from doing what ever floats your boat ... I am just answering your question in such a way to explain my own thoughts on the matter.

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And who saw them immediately inside the TSBD, pray tell?

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3 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

I think he was trying to intercept Running Woman to ask he what she'd (obviously) seen.  He looks at her quite a bit while they're both running.

--  Tommy :sun

That is possible although I cannot tell what someone wearing a helmet while moving away from me is looking at.

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3 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

*YAWN*

Wow - you read my post and responded within a minute of it being posted. Seeing I cannot be trolled and you can't seem to explain yourself, then there is nothing else of value to gain here.

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34 minutes ago, Bill Miller said:

That is possible although I cannot tell what someone wearing a helmet while moving away from me is looking at.

His head is turned in her direction, but maybe he's just looking at the wall.

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