Officer Marrion Baker's mad dash for the.... Dal-Tex building?

[Bill Miller]

4 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

His head is turned in her direction, but maybe he's just looking at the wall.

Or looking at various people in his field of view that didn't require the turning of his head. Only Baker could have answered that one.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Thomas Graves]

3 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

And who saw them immediately inside the TSBD, pray tell?

Howdy, Bob!

Who saw Baker, wearing his motorcycle helmet, uniform, and boots and all, running like a freakin' madman down the street to the corner / intersection? 

--  Tommy

[Thomas Graves]

2 hours ago, Bill Miller said:

Or looking at various people in his field of view that didn't require the turning of his head. Only Baker could have answered that one.

Huh?  His head is turned to his left in the video.

--  Tommy

[Bill Miller]

21 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Huh?  His head is turned to his left in the video.

--  Tommy

Thomas,

I am just saying that with the hundreds of people all around the scene - only Baker could tell you if he recalls his attention being drawn to any one person in his dash to the TSBD. If it were me in Baker's shoes, then I would have been scanning the people around me for anything suspicious or out of the ordinary, but that doesn't mean someone else would. Ralph Yarborough is clearly seen in Altgens 6 and I could not begin to guess who or what he was looking at even though at some point he said he was looking at the soldier on the knoll beyond the wall diving to the ground and out of his view. The same with JFK when he came down the street before the first shot was fired - he is looking into the crowd but I cannot begin to know who is was looking at, if anyone, at any given moment. Maybe there are those who are talented enough to do that, but I doubt there are. We can speculate about these things, but only the person being discussed would know the answer to any one person he or she may have been looking at - at any given moment and even at that this person may not even recall such a detail under such circumstances as Baker was under in his dash to the TSBD. Who ever it may have been (if anyone) it didn't stop the officer from going up the steps according to Baker, himself.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Robert Prudhomme]

Baker was the Invisible Man, Thomas. Only the FBI could see him!

[Bill Miller]

24 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Howdy, Bob!

Who saw Baker, wearing his motorcycle helmet, uniform, and boots and all, running like a freakin' madman down the street to the corner / intersection? 

--  Tommy

Exactly!      Those who think that someone had to testify that they saw a particular act for it to have occurred is not being realistic. Take the Commission witnesses - had they all been asked if they saw a motorcycle officer run into the TSBD and no one said they had, then maybe there would be something there to consider. But unless they were specially asked that question they may not have thought it important to just throw it out there. It's obviously a given that Officer Baker parked his bike and ran in the direction of the TSBD and yet no one who was on the steps mentioned it, but then again they were not asked either if I remember correctly.

[Bill Miller]

4 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Baker was the Invisible Man, Thomas. Only the FBI could see him!

Several cameras saw Officer Baker running - Truly saw him - so he was not invisible in my world.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Buell Wesley Frazier and Joe Molina, who were both standing on the top landing directly in front of the door, were specifically asked by a WC lawyer, several times, if they saw a white helmeted police officer enter the TSBD, to which they both replied "No".

As their attention would be drawn toward Elm St. by recent events, they should have been looking right at Baker as he came up the steps.

Yet, they did not see Baker.

If you don't find this odd, I don't know what is then.

[Sandy Larsen]

Much of this discussion is moot. Because this animated GIF proves that Baker was NOT headed toward the TSBD steps.

Click to enlarge!

The woman on the road at the very right is running toward the sidewalk. I traced her footsteps with a red line.

Baker is running at an angle approximately 90 degrees to the path of the woman, at this point in time. I traced his footsteps with a blue line.

The important thing to note is that we see the woman's back side. But we don't see Baker's back side... we see his profile! That is, his side view.

Thus their paths are perpendicular! She is running toward the sidewalk and Baker is running east. Much more the eastward than north.

If you can't see what I just described, can you see that Baker is running toward the path (red line) of the woman? Again, this indicates that their paths are perpendicular.

P.S. I marked the bottom of the sidewalk with a gray line. Baker is several feet from the sidewalk at the end of this clip, as indicated by his shadow. His shadow rises up the sidewalk on this, his last step of the video.

[Bill Miller]

53 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Buell Wesley Frazier and Joe Molina, who were both standing on the top landing directly in front of the door, were specifically asked by a WC lawyer, several times, if they saw a white helmeted police officer enter the TSBD, to which they both replied "No".

As their attention would be drawn toward Elm St. by recent events, they should have been looking right at Baker as he came up the steps.

Yet, they did not see Baker.

If you don't find this odd, I don't know what is then.

Mr. BALL. Did you see Mr. Truly go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I was right in the entrance.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a police officer with him?
Mr. MOLINA. I didn't see a police officer. I don't recall seeing a police officer but I did see him go inside.
 

Molina said he didn't recall seeing a police officer, which does not mean one didn't enter the TSBD. In fact, Molina never even mentioned seeing a helmeted officer break from the motorcade and race over to the stoplight about 35 - 40 feet from the steps, dismount the bike, and run towards hte TSBD at all. Earlier you were

 

Pauline Sanders was interviewed by FBI and their report said, "She said that on the morning of November 22, 1963, she went outside to watch the Presidential parade at about 11:25 a.m. She said she did not see OSWALD during this time and she stood in the last line of spectators nearest the door to the Texas School Book Depository building. She advised she could not recall the exact time but immediately after the presidential parade passed she heard three loud blasts and she immediately realized that the shots or whatever it was came from the building above her. She said within a matter of ten seconds a uniform police officer in a white helmet ran into the building but she did not observe him any further and could not state where he went in the building."

So what is your take on this - That the FBI merely made up Sanders saying a policeman ran into the TSBD about 10 seconds after the shooting or is it your position that Sanders made that observation up? After all, she didn't mention seeing Truly ... so does that mean in your mind that Truly and Molina lied about Roy's going into the building immediately after the shooting, or did Sanders not recall seeing Truly enter the building because perhaps she was momentarily distracted .... or could have seen Truly and not remembered it?

 

[Robert Prudhomme]

You forgot Frazier and yes, I believe the FBI fabricated a great deal of evidence. There is proof of this.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Think of this possibility, Bill. 

Truly entered the TSBD immediately following the shots, and Baker entered a few minutes later and met Truly in the lobby. By the time Baker entered the building, Frazier, Molina and most of the other employees on the steps had gone inside. THAT would explain why neither Frazier or Molina saw Baker enter the building, and why Molina saw Truly enter the building.

The second floor encounter with Oswald and Baker was essential to framing Oswald as the killer. Baker entering the building later than he claimed would allow Oswald to be out of the building before Baker entered.

Edited December 13, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Bill Miller]

1 hour ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

The second floor encounter with Oswald and Baker was essential to framing Oswald as the killer. Baker entering the building later than he claimed would allow Oswald to be out of the building before Baker entered.

Actually you have it backwards in my view. The timing of meeting a cool and not sweating Oswald is one of the things that caused Officer Baker not to consider him the shooter regardless of being an employee or not. Oswald would have had to wipe the gun down and run across the room to stash the weapon so to then proceed to race down the stairs and get there before Baker caught him in the act of fleeing the 6th floor. Moving Baker's search back several minutes would have been in Oswald's best interest from where I sit because the early meeting of Lee and Officer Baker went against the Feds trying to make him the person who fired shots from the 6th floor. And for the FBI to change Sanders statement to Officer Baker entering the building within 10 seconds would be just the opposite of what they would want to do if trying to frame Oswald.

So again I ask what would be the motive for writing that Sanders saw a policeman wearing a white helmet enter the building within 10 seconds of the shoot?

Edited December 13, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

1 hour ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

The second floor encounter with Oswald and Baker was essential to framing Oswald as the killer. Baker entering the building later than he claimed would allow Oswald to be out of the building before Baker entered.

What you just said makes no sense and I ask you to read what you wrote again. If Officer Baker entering the building minutes later as the picture you are trying to paint, then why was Oswald still in the building and had not escaped before the encounter took place as you have outlined. Maybe someone else can better explain it to either one of us. Even the Feds knew this was a problem having Lee getting from the 6th floor to the lunchroom before Baker. 

Edited December 13, 2016 by Bill Miller

[Bill Miller]

On 12/13/2016 at 2:59 AM, Robert Prudhomme said:

Think of this possibility, Bill. 

Truly entered the TSBD immediately following the shots, and Baker entered a few minutes later and met Truly in the lobby. By the time Baker entered the building, Frazier, Molina and most of the other employees on the steps had gone inside. THAT would explain why neither Frazier or Molina saw Baker enter the building, and why Molina saw Truly enter the building.

Three different witnesses saw Officer Baker running up the steps that fit what is seen on the Wiegman, Couch, and Darnell films. They were Pauline Sanders - Roy Truly - Billy Lovelady. I have to go with the three witnesses and three films vs a theory that all three eye-witnesses conspired to lie about what they saw immediately following the shooting.

(Image correction below made thanks to a Thomas Graves)

Edited December 14, 2016 by Bill Miller