Officer Marrion Baker's mad dash for the.... Dal-Tex building?

[David Josephs]

12:30 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Go to the hospital – Parkland Hospital. Have them stand Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there. Have Parkland stand by.

12:30 Dallas 1 (Sheriff J.E. “Bill” Decker) Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there.

Mr. BAKER - I heard Chief Curry, the chief of the police over there, say, "Get some men over on the railroad track." I think everyone at that time thought these shots came from the railroad track.
Mr. BELIN - By "everyone" do you include you, too?
Mr. BAKER - No, Sir. I had it--I was in a better position due to the wind and you know under it, that I knew it was directly ahead, and up, and it either had to be this building here or this one over here.

Guess you need pretty big hanging ones to contradict a direct order from the two top cops in the area at the time...
only to completely omit the lunchroom encounter on your same day affidavit and make the man tall, older and heavier...

"I had it..." ...(on good authority that the shots would come from the TSBD) ??? So rather than correct the broadcast and say over the radio that the TSBD appears to be the source of the shots... it seems everyone was streaming in to and out of this building that may or may not still have an assassin at large within it...

12:45 9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) On this building, it's unknown whether he is still in the building or not known if he was there in the first place.

Seems that Sawyer also heard that broadcast about the triple overpass:

Mr. SAWYER. I can't say whether it was officers or who, but there was a reference also made to the overpass.
Mr. BELIN. All right, in any event--pardon me, do you have anything else to add?
Mr. SAWYER. Also, there was a broadcast here in the transcript about the railroad yard.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. SAWYER. And this could be part of what I was thinking about, or what I had heard, was this broadcast on the radio about the railroad yard.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? You went inside the building, is that correct?
Mr. SAWYER. We immediately went inside the building.

So the entire time no one is sealing off this building, the police and anyone else for that matter were allowed back into the TSBD, back up stairs to their offices 0 didn't seem real concerned about an assassin in the building.

Mr. Wesley FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood there a few minutes, you know, and some people who worked there; you know normally started to go back into the Building because a lot of us didn't eat our lunch, and so we stared back into the Building and it wasn't but just a few minutes that there were a lot of police officers and so forth all over the Building there.
Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.

The whole episode of who was in and out of the TSBD between 12:30 and 1pm lead me to conclude that TSBD was a destination well before it was broadcast that the Triple overpass was the focus of the shooting and initial orders of investigation. Whether Baker continues on to Dal-Tex, I doubt very highly.The lunchroom was made up, yet the affidavit from that afternoon suggests Baker did what he wrote, and subsequently changed during his testimony.

[Sandy Larsen]

Sandy,

I think we've discussed this before.

Truly changes the trajectory of Baker's run. See gif.

He does appear to be running past the steps (could have been a split second decision). If he was going to run up the stairs initially, he more than likely would have entered on the left side of the handrail where the others are moving through. The right side is much too congested.

chris

Chris,

We talked about this briefly before, but as far as I know we never fully agreed upon an interpretation. I didn't push my interpretation because I had nothing prepared to back it up.

I do recall that you showed me that Baker began by running toward the TSBD. And of course I agreed with you. But I don't recall your saying that Truly changed Baker's trajectory. What do you mean by that? And which one is Truly?

It is only now that I am able to present what I believe to be a very strong case. I believe the evidence here shows that Baker had no intention of entering the TSBD. Not early on, that is. The evidence shows that Baker's intention was to run in the direction of the Dal-Tex building. For what reason I can only imagine.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

[Marrion] Baker had no intention of running into the TSBD when he began his mad dash, and didn't enter till later. As you will see, this is yet one more nail in the coffin of the Baker-Oswald second-floor lunchroom encounter myth.

The key to following the path taken by Baker is to follow his footsteps. As obvious as that sounds, it has surprisingly never been done. At least not seriously.

[...]

Marrion Baker was not headed for the TSBD. Not to go inside. No way.

The utter desperation of conspiracy theorists is astounding, as Sandy Larsen's ludicrous claim regarding Police Officer Marrion L. Baker in this thread clearly demonstrates.

Sandy thinks Baker told one lie after another FOR DECADES ON END after the assassination.

Now, all Sandy needs to do is to logically and reasonably tell us Why Marrion Baker would want to tell a bunch of lies about his movements on November 22, 1963.

Was he paid very handsomely for lying so much, Sandy? Or did the FBI threaten Baker's life if he didn't go along with the "LN" story?

Here's the proof that Sandy Larsen is dead wrong ----> MARRION BAKER INTERVIEW (1964)

David, have you no eyes to see? The photographic evidence is irrefutable. Unless, of course, you believe the Darnell video has been altered.

I believe Marrion Baker initially told the truth, and after that was convinced by powerful people to be a Patriot and protect the nation from America's "enemies." And thus his lies -- as hard as they were for him to keep straight -- were justified.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[Chris Davidson]

Sandy,

I think we've discussed this before.

Truly changes the trajectory of Baker's run. See gif.

He does appear to be running past the steps (could have been a split second decision). If he was going to run up the stairs initially, he more than likely would have entered on the left side of the handrail where the others are moving through. The right side is much too congested.

chris

Chris,

We talked about this briefly before, but as far as I know we never fully agreed upon an interpretation. I didn't push my interpretation because I had nothing prepared to back it up.

I do recall that you showed me that Baker began by running toward the TSBD. And of course I agreed with you. But I don't recall your saying that Truly changed Baker's trajectory. What do you mean by that? And which one is Truly?

It is only now that I am able to present what I believe to be a very strong case. I believe the evidence here shows that Baker had no intention of entering the TSBD. Not early on, that is. The evidence shows that Baker's intention was to run in the direction of the Dal-Tex building. For what reason I can only imagine.

Notice in the foreground, the gentleman with the cowboy hat, Truly comes out from under it. Truly then proceeds to turn towards the TSBD after Baker passes.

Truly is the only obstacle between Baker and the stairs as Baker crosses the street.

If you watch Baker's left elbow/arm before he reaches Truly and after, you will see the angle/trajectory change.

chris

[Tom Neal]

Sandy,

Excellent job with the gifs!

Have you considered 'triangulating' the individual positions of Bakers' footsteps relative to landmarks? These coordinates could then be transformed onto an overhead view of the surrounding buildings. The position vectors of his footsteps would then reproduce his path and implied destination.

Question:

Is Jimmy Darnell following Baker with his camera? A "running policeman" would certainly be of interest, and Baker does appear to be in the center of the frames until the camera begins to pan back to the left rather than follow Baker. If I'm interpreting this correctly, I have to wonder why he decided to pan back to the left rather than continue to follow Baker?

[Robert Prudhomme]

12:30 1 (Chief of Police Jesse E. Curry) Go to the hospital – Parkland Hospital. Have them stand Get a man on top of that triple underpass and see what happened up there. Have Parkland stand by.

12:30 Dallas 1 (Sheriff J.E. “Bill” Decker) Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there.

Mr. BAKER - I heard Chief Curry, the chief of the police over there, say, "Get some men over on the railroad track." I think everyone at that time thought these shots came from the railroad track.

Mr. BELIN - By "everyone" do you include you, too?

Mr. BAKER - No, Sir. I had it--I was in a better position due to the wind and you know under it, that I knew it was directly ahead, and up, and it either had to be this building here or this one over here.

Guess you need pretty big hanging ones to contradict a direct order from the two top cops in the area at the time...

only to completely omit the lunchroom encounter on your same day affidavit and make the man tall, older and heavier...

"I had it..." ...(on good authority that the shots would come from the TSBD) ??? So rather than correct the broadcast and say over the radio that the TSBD appears to be the source of the shots... it seems everyone was streaming in to and out of this building that may or may not still have an assassin at large within it...

12:45 9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) On this building, it's unknown whether he is still in the building or not known if he was there in the first place.

Seems that Sawyer also heard that broadcast about the triple overpass:

Mr. SAWYER. I can't say whether it was officers or who, but there was a reference also made to the overpass.

Mr. BELIN. All right, in any event--pardon me, do you have anything else to add?

Mr. SAWYER. Also, there was a broadcast here in the transcript about the railroad yard.

Mr. BELIN. All right.

Mr. SAWYER. And this could be part of what I was thinking about, or what I had heard, was this broadcast on the radio about the railroad yard.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do? You went inside the building, is that correct?

Mr. SAWYER. We immediately went inside the building.

So the entire time no one is sealing off this building, the police and anyone else for that matter were allowed back into the TSBD, back up stairs to their offices 0 didn't seem real concerned about an assassin in the building.

Mr. Wesley FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood there a few minutes, you know, and some people who worked there; you know normally started to go back into the Building because a lot of us didn't eat our lunch, and so we stared back into the Building and it wasn't but just a few minutes that there were a lot of police officers and so forth all over the Building there.

Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?

Mr. FRAZIER - Right.

The whole episode of who was in and out of the TSBD between 12:30 and 1pm lead me to conclude that TSBD was a destination well before it was broadcast that the Triple overpass was the focus of the shooting and initial orders of investigation. Whether Baker continues on to Dal-Tex, I doubt very highly.The lunchroom was made up, yet the affidavit from that afternoon suggests Baker did what he wrote, and subsequently changed during his testimony.

Was Baker invisible?

[David Von Pein]

David, have you no eyes to see? The photographic evidence is irrefutable. Unless, of course, you believe the Darnell video has been altered.

I believe Marrion Baker initially told the truth, and after that was convinced by powerful people to be a Patriot and protect the nation from America's "enemies." And thus his lies -- as hard as they were for him to keep straight -- were justified.

Oh, for Pete sake. Get real, Sandy. The Darnell film doesn't come close to providing "irrefutable" evidence that Baker bypassed the Book Depository and was headed for the Dal-Tex Building instead. The film clip stops short of showing Baker actually reaching the Depository's front steps. So your "irrefutable" evidence is nothing but pure speculation and amateur photographic (film) interpretation on your part.

I, on the other hand, have Marrion Baker's own words and testimony, which make it clear that he immediately ran into the Book Depository after the shooting. And Baker's own signed affidavit, which he filled out on the day of the assassination itself, also bears out the fact that he went straight to the Depository after jumping off of his police motorcycle:

"I decided the shots had come from the building on the northwest corner of Elm and Houston. This building is used by the Board of Education for book storage. I jumped off my motor and ran inside the building." -- Marrion L. Baker (Via Affidavit); November 22, 1963

And, by the way, Sandy, this statement you made in your thread-starting post is not accurate at all:

"The official story has long held that police officer Marrion L. Baker found Oswald in the second story lunchroom of the Texas Schoolbook Depository (TSBD) within 20 to 25 seconds of the shooting." -- S. Larsen

Where on Earth did you get the "20 to 25 seconds" timing? Nobody that I know of has ever claimed that the second-floor TSBD encounter between Marrion Baker and Lee Harvey Oswald occurred as early as "20 to 25 seconds" after the assassination. It is generally accepted by almost everybody (even most conspiracy believers) that the encounter in the lunchroom took place approximately 90 seconds after the shooting, just as Officer Baker estimated in his CBS-TV interview in 1964.

[Robert Prudhomme]

Great work, Sandy. You know that you're square on the mark when you've got DVP on your tail trying to shoot you down.

Someone is worried.

Note the obvious attempt at distraction as DVP appears to be "confused" about how Baker made it to the 2nd floor in 20-25 seconds. He knows darn well this time refers to Baker's claim as to how long it took him to reach the front door.

[Pat Speer]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but I think one needs to take into account Baker's position in the motorcade. He drove up Houston on the East side of the street, headed straight toward the Dal-Tex. if his intention was to go to the Dal-Tex, he would not have made a left turn on Elm and parked his bike in front of the TSBD. IMHO.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Pat Speer

[David Von Pein]

Note the obvious attempt at distraction as DVP appears to be "confused" about how Baker made it to the 2nd floor in 20-25 seconds. He knows darn well this time refers to Baker's claim as to how long it took him to reach the front door.

Can't you read, Bob? That's not what I'm talking about at all. I just posted the relevant (wholly wrong) quote written by Sandy on this matter. And Sandy wasn't ONLY talking about Baker's time to get to the TSBD's front door. Here's what Sandy said....

"The official story has long held that police officer Marrion L. Baker found Oswald in the second story lunchroom of the Texas Schoolbook Depository (TSBD) within 20 to 25 seconds of the shooting." -- Sandy Larsen

Edited April 18, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Robert Prudhomme]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but I think one needs to take into account Baker's position in the motorcade. He drove up Houston on the East side of the street, headed straight toward the Dal-Tex. if his intention was to go to the Dal-Tex, he would not have made a left turn on Elm and parked his bike in front of the TSBD. IMHO.

There were people standing in the street. To reach the Dal-Tex by motorcycle, he would have had to force his way through the onlookers. The concrete island is the first place he could have contacted the curb without going through onlookers.

The same logic could be applied to the TSBD. Why did he go all the way to the concrete island, if he intended to ascend the steps of the TSBD, instead of just parking at the steps?

[Robert Prudhomme]

Note the obvious attempt at distraction as DVP appears to be "confused" about how Baker made it to the 2nd floor in 20-25 seconds. He knows darn well this time refers to Baker's claim as to how long it took him to reach the front door.

Can't you read, Bob? That's not what I'm talking about at all. I just posted the relevant (wholly wrong) quote written by Sandy on this matter. And Sandy wasn't ONLY talking about Baker's time to get to the TSBD's front door. Here's what Sandy said....

"The official story has long held that police officer Marrion L. Baker found Oswald in the second story lunchroom of the Texas Schoolbook Depository (TSBD) within 20 to 25 seconds of the shooting." -- Sandy Larsen

So Sandy made a little mistake. Get over it, Davey.

[Robert Prudhomme]

I knew what he meant.

[David Von Pein]

So Sandy made a little mistake. Get over it, Davey.

Should I take that as an official apology, Bob, after you made a mistake when you accused me of being "confused" earlier?

Edited April 18, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Tom Neal]

DUPE

Edited April 18, 2016 by Tom Neal