Officer Marrion Baker's mad dash for the.... Dal-Tex building?

[David Von Pein]

I knew what he [sandy] meant.

So did I. He meant just exactly what he clearly said in Post #1. And he's dead wrong.

Edited April 18, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

Sandy,

I think we've discussed this before.

Truly changes the trajectory of Baker's run. See gif.

He does appear to be running past the steps (could have been a split second decision). If he was going to run up the stairs initially, he more than likely would have entered on the left side of the handrail where the others are moving through. The right side is much too congested.

chris

Chris,

We talked about this briefly before, but as far as I know we never fully agreed upon an interpretation. I didn't push my interpretation because I had nothing prepared to back it up.

I do recall that you showed me that Baker began by running toward the TSBD. And of course I agreed with you. But I don't recall your saying that Truly changed Baker's trajectory. What do you mean by that? And which one is Truly?

It is only now that I am able to present what I believe to be a very strong case. I believe the evidence here shows that Baker had no intention of entering the TSBD. Not early on, that is. The evidence shows that Baker's intention was to run in the direction of the Dal-Tex building. For what reason I can only imagine.

Notice in the foreground, the gentleman with the cowboy hat, Truly comes out from under it. Truly then proceeds to turn towards the TSBD after Baker passes.

Truly is the only obstacle between Baker and the stairs as Baker crosses the street.

If you watch Baker's left elbow/arm before he reaches Truly and after, you will see the angle/trajectory change.

chris

Chris,

I believe that the fellow you are saying is Truly is the guy who is standing about 16 feet out (south) from the west wall of the TSBD entryway. He watches Baker approach and then quickly turns to his right after Baker passes behind him. Assuming that's the man...

I no longer believe that Baker was ever headed toward the west half of the TSBD entryway. In fact, I don't believe he was ever headed toward ANY part of the entryway. And I believe there was a rather large distance between himself and Truly as he passed by him.

Since marking up the GIF and studying it, I no longer believe that Baker made a highly abrupt course change. I DO believe that Baker intended to make his right turn right after passing that very tall man, and that if an abrupt change in direction did occur, it did so right around when Baker passed the tall man. As a matter of fact, it appears to me that Baker may have nearly bumped into the tall guy.

[Sandy Larsen]

Sandy,

Excellent job with the gifs!

Have you considered 'triangulating' the individual positions of Bakers' footsteps relative to landmarks? These coordinates could then be transformed onto an overhead view of the surrounding buildings. The position vectors of his footsteps would then reproduce his path and implied destination.

Question:

Is Jimmy Darnell following Baker with his camera? A "running policeman" would certainly be of interest, and Baker does appear to be in the center of the frames until the camera begins to pan back to the left rather than follow Baker. If I'm interpreting this correctly, I have to wonder why he decided to pan back to the left rather than continue to follow Baker?

Tom,

I don't know if transforming the step locations into an overhead view would be worth the effort. I feel satisfied myself as to what direction Baker was headed. On the other hand, I'm sure there are many who don't feel comfortable with my interpretation who might feel differently if they could see for themselves an overhead view. An overhead view would have the advantage of removing perspective-related distortions... a right angle would look like a right angle, for example. (I wasn't sure I could convince others that Baker was running in a path perpendicular to the young woman's, till I realized that her butt gave away her true angle. LOL, compared to Baker's side view.)

I'm sure that getting an accurate reading on Baker's final destination is impossible, given that what I call his "final footstep" is obscured in the video, as are all his subsequent steps. I feel lucky that I could conclude that he wasn't headed for the TSBD entrance.

I think you may be right that Darnell was following Baker. My guess as to why Darnell prematurely panned back was because he feared he'd miss something more important in the "center of action," where the shooting seemed to have taken place.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[David Von Pein]

I no longer believe that Baker was ever headed toward the west half of the TSBD entryway. In fact, I don't believe he was ever headed toward ANY part of the entryway.

It's amazing what a fertile imagination can do when a conspiracy theorist gets ahold of a GIF clip. Remarkable.

BTW, here's another of Marrion Baker's statements that Sandy Larsen is now forced to completely toss into the nearest gutter or trash can:

"I, Marrion L Baker, being duly sworn say:

1. I am an officer in the Dallas Police Department.

2. On November 22, 1963, upon hearing shots I rode my motorcycle 180 to 200 feet, parked the motorcycle, and ran 45 feet to the Texas School Book Depository Building.

3. On March 20, 1964, counsel from the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy timed a re-enactment of my actions after hearing the shots on November 22, 1963. During this re-enactment, I reached the recessed door of the Texas School Book Depository Building fifteen seconds after the time of the simulated shot."

-- Marrion L. Baker; August 11, 1964

Edited April 18, 2016 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

So did I. He [sandy] meant just exactly what he clearly said in Post #1. And he's dead wrong.

As I knew Sandy would do (because I do not think he is a dishonest person), Sandy has changed his first post to read "90 seconds" instead of "20 to 25 seconds". But I wanted a copy of the original post, just to prove that I did not "invent" anything I attributed to Mr. Larsen, so I quickly saved Sandy's initial post in the Wayback Machine at the Archive.org website [but it's since been deleted for some unknown and spiteful reason, so I had to create a screen capture by accessing an old cached version of the post; ~sigh~].

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KMLPwqhavWM/VxbgPVXAQGI/AAAAAAABJnQ/XMPy9w81Gskpl_k5ozECXYKqG2HqbqdpwCLcB/s1600/Edu-Forum-Post-Old-Version.png

But thanks for your honesty in changing the time to "90 seconds", Sandy.

Edited April 20, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

Great work, Sandy. You know that you're square on the mark when you've got DVP on your tail trying to shoot you down.

Someone is worried.

Note the obvious attempt at distraction as DVP appears to be "confused" about how Baker made it to the 2nd floor in 20-25 seconds. He knows darn well this time refers to Baker's claim as to how long it took him to reach the front door.

Thanks for the 20/90 sec clarification, Bob. I have corrected it in my initial post.

[Sandy Larsen]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but I think one needs to take into account Baker's position in the motorcade. He drove up Houston on the East side of the street, headed straight toward the Dal-Tex. if his intention was to go to the Dal-Tex, he would not have made a left turn on Elm and parked his bike in front of the TSBD. IMHO.

Good point, Pat. But consider the possibility that Baker might have come to his decision to check out... Dal-Tex or whatever... after he made the turn onto Elm. Regardless, the photographic evidence indicates that Baker's initial intention was not to enter the TSBD.

[Sandy Larsen]

Not to be a stick in the mud, but I think one needs to take into account Baker's position in the motorcade. He drove up Houston on the East side of the street, headed straight toward the Dal-Tex. if his intention was to go to the Dal-Tex, he would not have made a left turn on Elm and parked his bike in front of the TSBD. IMHO.

There were people standing in the street. To reach the Dal-Tex by motorcycle, he would have had to force his way through the onlookers. The concrete island is the first place he could have contacted the curb without going through onlookers.

The same logic could be applied to the TSBD. Why did he go all the way to the concrete island, if he intended to ascend the steps of the TSBD, instead of just parking at the steps?

Good counter-point.

[David Von Pein]

Thanks for the 20/90 sec clarification, Bob. I have corrected it in my initial post.

LOL. Bob didn't clarify a thing, Sandy. I did.

But it would seem as if I'm on Sandy's Ignore list now. So Bob gets credit for the "clarification" instead of that crackpot disinfo specialist named DVP.

Oh, well. Such is life.

Edited April 18, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

I knew what he [sandy] meant.

So did I. He meant just exactly what he clearly said in Post #1. And he's dead wrong.

It's okay now David... I corrected it!

Edited April 18, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[Michael Walton]

Sandy,

I appreciate the work you put into this but I'm really not seeing the relevance. I mean it's obvious a great little slice of the event captured on film of him running into the TSBD is what we see in the GIF. And the far more intriguing part of it is the Prayer Man figure still standing there at the top of the stairs.

There are people standing, looking, walking, and running amid the confusion of what just happened in that clip but I just don't see how you can take such a huge leap to assume he's heading over to D-T, then cuts and runs into TSBD. And even if he did cut and run, what does it really matter anyway?

[David Von Pein]

I knew what he [sandy] meant.

So did I. He meant just exactly what he clearly said in Post #1. And he's dead wrong.

It's okay now David... I corrected it!

Ten-Four.

Edited April 18, 2016 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

Sandy,

I appreciate the work you put into this, but I'm really not seeing the relevance. I mean it's obvious a great little slice of the event captured on film of him running into the TSBD is what we see in the GIF. And the far more intriguing part of it is the Prayer Man figure still standing there at the top of the stairs.

There are people standing, looking, walking, and running amid the confusion of what just happened in that clip, but I just don't see how you can take such a huge leap to assume he's heading over to D-T, then cuts and runs into TSBD. And even if he did cut and run, what does it really matter anyway?

I agree with everything you just said, Michael.

Plus, I think one of the most intriguing parts of the GIF clip below is the fact that we can see TWO different people who appear to be looking UP toward the upper floors of the Depository -- "Stetson Hat Man" and the man in the dark suit on the far right:

In addition, when looking at the full-sized version of the GIF clip presented by Sandy (1024 x 613), it looks to me as if a pretty good argument could be made for Baker's last step in that GIF clip representing a bit of a "jump up" by Baker as he goes from street level "up" one step to the higher level of the sidewalk that is right in front of the Book Depository Building. (Click the above clip to enlarge it to full size.)

And if that is the case (Baker "jumping" up onto the sidewalk), that would certainly not be consistent with him continuing to run in the street toward the Dal-Tex Building.

Edited April 19, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Sandy Larsen]

I no longer believe that Baker was ever headed toward the west half of the TSBD entryway. In fact, I don't believe he was ever headed toward ANY part of the entryway.

It's amazing what a fertile imagination can do when a conspiracy theorist gets ahold of a GIF clip. Remarkable.

BTW, here's another of Marrion Baker's statements that Sandy Larsen is now forced to completely toss into the nearest gutter or trash can:

"I, Marrion L Baker, being duly sworn say:

1. I am an officer in the Dallas Police Department.

2. On November 22, 1963, upon hearing shots I rode my motorcycle 180 to 200 feet, parked the motorcycle, and ran 45 feet to the Texas School Book Depository Building.

3. On March 20, 1964, counsel from the President's Commission on the Assassination of President Kennedy timed a re-enactment of my actions after hearing the shots on November 22, 1963. During this re-enactment, I reached the recessed door of the Texas School Book Depository Building fifteen seconds after the time of the simulated shot."

-- Marrion L. Baker; August 11, 1964

David,

In officer Baker's early statements he gives no account whatsoever of pulling a gun on Oswald, or even seeing him in the second floor lunchroom.

There are many other problems with this alleged lunchroom encounter. I don't believe it ever took place.

Baker's actions in the Darnell clip support what I believe. So I reported those actions here.

I follow the evidence wherever it leads me. Sometime I even reverse my position. Unlike with you, I am not stuck on an inflexible, dogmatic ideology.

[Sandy Larsen]

Thanks for the 20/90 sec clarification, Bob. I have corrected it in my initial post.

LOL. Bob didn't clarify a thing, Sandy. I did.

No you didn't. You just said I was flat wrong. Bob pointed out that the 20 to 25 seconds was Baker's estimate to get to the front door. It was Bob's effort that I learned from.

But it would seem as if I'm on Sandy's Ignore list now. So Bob gets credit for the "clarification" instead of that crackpot disinfo specialist named DVP.

I never put anybody on my ignore list. So you shouldn't be there. I can see your posts so I assume everything is okay.

Oh, well. Such is life.