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Two Dallas cops were involved in the pre-arranged murder of Tippit...


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Since Martino wasn't in Dallas practicing skulduggery on the 22nd, it's possible plans may have been changed, or were forced to be altered and improvised.

David,

This is my opinion, also. Clearly JDT was up to something with his visit to the record store and the phone call just prior to his murder. It appears that he was supposed to do something, or prevent something at that time, but failed to do it. Perhaps he was supposed to kill Oswald, or take control of LHO as part of the setup to tie Castro into the assassination, and bring him to where he was to be killed, but a suspicious LHO eluded him. With LHO unexpectedly 'on the loose' he could NOT be taken alive. That risk was unacceptable, so DPD needed an excuse to murder LHO rather than apprehend him.

Whatever JDT was supposed to do, but didn't do, IMO required him to be silenced. Possibly he could no longer be trusted. DPD could put out the word that LHO the 'cop-killer' was not to be taken alive. The way it all went down at the theater, LHO thought that he would be shot - and IMO he would have been if not for his yelling "I am not resisting arrest!" Again, just my opinion, but I don't think their desire to make LHO a cop-killer was sufficient to sacrifice JDT had he fulfilled his assignment.

One of many alternate scenarios would be that despite plans of others, DPD had no intention of allowing LHO to escape from Dallas. Not good for their reputation. So although this was "not supposed to happen" as far as Martino knew, DPD may have planned JDT's death all along.

Tom,

Interesting line of thought, much of which sounds right to me.

I do think, though, that the Tippit murder was premeditated, not so much by the DPD per se as by Westbrook, Croy and .... uh .... a guy who looked a bit like the "Lee Harvey Oswald" we all think we know, but was wearing a white t-shirt and dark pants in the early afternoon of 11/22/63. I think Westbrook brought the infamous wallet to 10th & Patton and introduced it into evidence there. I think he got the Eisenhower jacket and a .38 revolver from a certain person in a white t-shirt who , again, looked a little like the LHO we all think we know.

And I couldn't agree more about Martino and the Cubans.

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I do think, though, that the Tippit murder was premeditated, not so much by the DPD per se as by Westbrook, Croy and .... uh .... a guy who looked a bit like the "Lee Harvey Oswald" we all think we know, but was wearing a white t-shirt and dark pants in the early afternoon of 11/22/63. I think Westbrook brought the infamous wallet to 10th & Patton and introduced it into evidence there. I think he got the Eisenhower jacket and a .38 revolver from a certain person in a white t-shirt who , again, looked a little like the LHO we all think we know.

Jim,

I can see reasons for premeditation, or execution of a backup plan. "LHO" dropping his wallet at the crime scene is too 'over the top' to have been planned. Especially when another wallet was "found on LHO" when he was arrested. You'd think the original plan would have been coordinated to a high degree.

Was there a reason for killing JDT other than making LHO a "cop-killer?"

Tom

Edited by Tom Neal
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Since Martino wasn't in Dallas practicing skulduggery on the 22nd, it's possible plans may have been changed, or were forced to be altered and improvised.

David,

This is my opinion, also. Clearly JDT was up to something with his visit to the record store and the phone call just prior to his murder. It appears that he was supposed to do something, or prevent something at that time, but failed to do it. Perhaps he was supposed to kill Oswald, or take control of LHO as part of the setup to tie Castro into the assassination, and bring him to where he was to be killed, but a suspicious LHO eluded him. With LHO unexpectedly 'on the loose' he could NOT be taken alive. That risk was unacceptable, so DPD needed an excuse to murder LHO rather than apprehend him.

Whatever JDT was supposed to do, but didn't do, IMO required him to be silenced. Possibly he could no longer be trusted. DPD could put out the word that LHO the 'cop-killer' was not to be taken alive. The way it all went down at the theater, LHO thought that he would be shot - and IMO he would have been if not for his yelling "I am not resisting arrest!" Again, just my opinion, but I don't think their desire to make LHO a cop-killer was sufficient to sacrifice JDT had he fulfilled his assignment.

One of many alternate scenarios would be that despite plans of others, DPD had no intention of allowing LHO to escape from Dallas. Not good for their reputation. So although this was "not supposed to happen" as far as Martino knew, DPD may have planned JDT's death all along.

Tom,

Interesting line of thought, much of which sounds right to me.

I do think, though, that the Tippit murder was premeditated, not so much by the DPD per se as by Westbrook, Croy and .... uh .... a guy who looked a bit like the "Lee Harvey Oswald" we all think we know, but was wearing a white t-shirt and dark pants in the early afternoon of 11/22/63. I think Westbrook brought the infamous wallet to 10th & Patton and introduced it into evidence there. I think he got the Eisenhower jacket and a .38 revolver from a certain person in a white t-shirt who , again, looked a little like the LHO we all think we know.

And I couldn't agree more about Martino and the Cubans.

Not to get all melodramatic here, but:

WESTBROOK (To Tippit): Arrest him!

Tippit gets out of the car and heads around the front toward "Oswald"

"OSWALD": Now wait a minute, here...

WESTBROOK (To "Oswald"): Shoot him!

"Oswald" pulls his revolver and shoots Tippit across the patrol car hood. Tippit falls down and out of the frame.

A beat. Nobody moves.

WESTBROOK (To "Oswald"): Finish him!

Edited by David Andrews
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Not to get all melodramatic here, but:

WESTBROOK (To Tippit): Arrest him!

Tippit gets out of the car and heads around the front toward "Oswald"

"OSWALD": Now wait a minute, here...

WESTBROOK (To "Oswald"): Shoot him!

"Oswald" pulls his revolver and shoots Tippit across the patrol car hood. Tippit falls down and out of the frame.

A beat. Nobody moves.

WESTBROOK (To "Oswald"): Finish him!

Sounds reasonable to me.

continuing:

"LHO" runs across the lawn throwing empty shells, and is then seen by other witnesses running down the perpendicular street wearing the gray jacket, with the revolver held high and shortly after this sighting he is no longer seen. This indicates that he had to meet Westbrook AFTER the final shot.

My question is; was Westbrook present before the last shot was fired? (And it appears that he was.) If so, he had to make two appearances at the crime scene only minutes apart. However, if he arrived a few minutes after the last shot, he could have first met "LHO" and then appeared only once to plant the wallet.

Or if Westbrook already had the wallet he could drop it at the crime scene and then proceeded to meet "LHO" to take the gun and jacket.

Lots of workable scenarios here...

Most witnesses saw one man with JDT, but least one witness reported two men with him. This is strong evidence that the second man arrived after the shooting started. Was a description of the second man given?

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I do think, though, that the Tippit murder was premeditated, not so much by the DPD per se as by Westbrook, Croy and .... uh .... a guy who looked a bit like the "Lee Harvey Oswald" we all think we know, but was wearing a white t-shirt and dark pants in the early afternoon of 11/22/63. I think Westbrook brought the infamous wallet to 10th & Patton and introduced it into evidence there. I think he got the Eisenhower jacket and a .38 revolver from a certain person in a white t-shirt who , again, looked a little like the LHO we all think we know.

Jim,

I can see reasons for premeditation, or execution of a backup plan. "LHO" dropping his wallet at the crime scene is too 'over the top' to have been planned. Especially when another wallet was "found on LHO" when he was arrested. You'd think the original plan would have been coordinated to a high degree.

Was there a reason for killing JDT other than making LHO a "cop-killer?"

Tom

Tom,

I agree that dropping a wallet seems over the top for a plot to frame LHO. But how else can the wallet be explained? Are you saying that maybe it was part of a seat-of-the-pants backup operation?

If so, I wonder why the perps happened to have the wallet in their possession. (Maybe they had a whole war chest full of LHO-related props?)

Edited by Sandy Larsen
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Jim,

I can see reasons for premeditation, or execution of a backup plan. "LHO" dropping his wallet at the crime scene is too 'over the top' to have been planned. Especially when another wallet was "found on LHO" when he was arrested. You'd think the original plan would have been coordinated to a high degree.

Was there a reason for killing JDT other than making LHO a "cop-killer?"

Tom,

I agree that dropping a wallet seems over the top for a plot to frame LHO. But how else can the wallet be explained? Are you saying that maybe it was part of a seat-of-the-pants backup operation?

If so, I wonder why the perps happened to have the wallet in their possession. (Maybe they had a whole war chest full of LHO-related props?)

If "LHO" was carrying the wallet he could have been using it earlier to ID himself as LHO. Westbrook could have taken the wallet from "LHO" when he got the jacket, or simply ordered "LHO" to drop the wallet while they were both at the crime scene. It isn't necessary for Westbrook to have carried the wallet prior to the shooting. Westbrook then dropped/hid the jacket so he could discover it later. I don't think the wallet was necessary to link LHO to the murder, but it would have been less likely to be considered "planted" evidence if it had been found in the jacket pocket, and that would link the jacket that was worn by the shooter to Lee himself. If the plan was to kill JDT and leave the wallet at the scene, then finding a wallet on LHO when arrested makes the murder-scene wallet a plant. It seems likely to me that Westbrook was improvising.

Was it absolutely necessary to make LHO a cop-killer? That's the ONLY explanation I've heard and murdering an "innocent" doesn't appear to be necessary. However, if JDT needed to be silenced...

If you want to know more about John Martino, here is a 1 hour interview of Larry Hancock by Rex Bradford. You can't put an entire book into 1 hour so you'll still need the book.

Edited by Tom Neal
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Jim,

I can see reasons for premeditation, or execution of a backup plan. "LHO" dropping his wallet at the crime scene is too 'over the top' to have been planned. Especially when another wallet was "found on LHO" when he was arrested. You'd think the original plan would have been coordinated to a high degree.

Was there a reason for killing JDT other than making LHO a "cop-killer?"

Tom,

I agree that dropping a wallet seems over the top for a plot to frame LHO. But how else can the wallet be explained? Are you saying that maybe it was part of a seat-of-the-pants backup operation?

If so, I wonder why the perps happened to have the wallet in their possession. (Maybe they had a whole war chest full of LHO-related props?)

If "LHO" was carrying the wallet he could have been using it earlier to ID himself as LHO. Westbrook could have taken the wallet from "LHO" when he got the jacket, or simply ordered "LHO" to drop the wallet while they were both at the crime scene. It isn't necessary for Westbrook to have carried the wallet prior to the shooting. Westbrook then dropped/hid the jacket so he could discover it later. I don't think the wallet was necessary to link LHO to the murder, but it would have been less likely to be considered "planted" evidence if it had been found in the jacket pocket, and that would link the jacket that was worn by the shooter to Lee himself. If the plan was to kill JDT and leave the wallet at the scene, then finding a wallet on LHO when arrested makes the murder-scene wallet a plant. It seems likely to me that Westbrook was improvising.

Was it absolutely necessary to make LHO a cop-killer? That's the ONLY explanation I've heard and murdering an "innocent" doesn't appear to be necessary. However, if JDT needed to be silenced...

If you want to know more about John Martino, here is a 1 hour interview of Larry Hancock by Rex Bradford. You can't put an entire book into 1 hour so you'll still need the book.

Thanks Tom.

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Not to get all melodramatic here, but:

WESTBROOK (To Tippit): Arrest him!

Tippit gets out of the car and heads around the front toward "Oswald"

"OSWALD": Now wait a minute, here...

WESTBROOK (To "Oswald"): Shoot him!

"Oswald" pulls his revolver and shoots Tippit across the patrol car hood. Tippit falls down and out of the frame.

A beat. Nobody moves.

WESTBROOK (To "Oswald"): Finish him!

Yep, during several phone conversations, John Armstrong has speculated about an almost identical scenario! Here's how he put it on my website:

As Tippit walked near the front of his patrol car LEE Oswald pulled his pistol and fired three shots. After Tippit fell to the ground LEE Oswald walked to the back of Tippit's car. He then stopped, returned to where Tippit was laying, and and deliberately shot him in the head (around 1:06-1:08 PM). Could Westbrook, who got out of the police car at the same time, have said, "finish the job," or something similar? That could have caused LEE Oswald to stop, turn around and re-trace his steps, and then shoot Tippit in the head with a fourth shot. Jack Tatum saw the 4th shot and said, "whoever shot Tippit was determined that he shouldn't live and he was determined to finish the job."

NOTE: JFK researcher Shirley Martin tape-recorded an interview with Mrs. Aquilla Clemmons in August, 1964. Mrs. Clemmons said that while sitting on her porch, she saw two men standing near the police cruiser moments before Tippit was shot.

Mrs. Doris Holan lived on the 2nd floor at 409 E Tenth Street (see map above), directly across the street from the Tippit shooting. Mrs Holan had just returned home from her job a few minutes after 1:00 PM when she heard several gun shots. From her 2nd floor bedroom window she had possibly the best view of the murder scene (see photo), and saw Tippit lying on the street near the left front of his patrol car. Mrs. Holan observed the shooter as he was walking across the Davis's lawn toward Patton. Mrs Holan also noticed a 2nd police car parked in the narrow driveway between the houses directly across the street (between 404 and 410 E. 10th). Tippit's car was parked on 10th St., directly in front of the narrow driveway, and prevented the 2nd police car from driving onto 10th St.

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If "LHO" was carrying the wallet he could have been using it earlier to ID himself as LHO. Westbrook could have taken the wallet from "LHO" when he got the jacket, or simply ordered "LHO" to drop the wallet while they were both at the crime scene. It isn't necessary for Westbrook to have carried the wallet prior to the shooting. Westbrook then dropped/hid the jacket so he could discover it later. I don't think the wallet was necessary to link LHO to the murder, but it would have been less likely to be considered "planted" evidence if it had been found in the jacket pocket, and that would link the jacket that was worn by the shooter to Lee himself. If the plan was to kill JDT and leave the wallet at the scene, then finding a wallet on LHO when arrested makes the murder-scene wallet a plant. It seems likely to me that Westbrook was improvising.

Was it absolutely necessary to make LHO a cop-killer? That's the ONLY explanation I've heard and murdering an "innocent" doesn't appear to be necessary. However, if JDT needed to be silenced...

John has been mulling over these issues for a long time. His thinking now is that Westbrook and LEE Oswald probably met in an alley or some place similar right after the shooting and there LEE handed Westbrook the wallet, the jacket and the murder weapon.... which, if so, is another indication that the whole thing was premeditated.

Mrs. Doris Holan arguably had the best view of the scene from her house on the 2nd floor at 409 E Tenth Street, directly across the street. She is one of the few, if not the only, eyewitness to the Tippit shooting, that was in a position to see the second squad car in the narrow driveway. She said the second man (probably Westbrook) approached the body "seconds" after the final shot.

Regarding the "over the top" nature of the throwdown wallet, my theory is that the plotters weren’t all that concerned about how good their so-called evidence was. All they needed was a pre-ordained patsy with ties to American Intel AND the FBI, and they had to just know all the breaks would go their way. Just look at how terrible the rifle evidence is, as Sandy Larsen was so helpful in exposing, and consider what a poor fit the bolt-action Carcano was for that type of job. Sloppy, but it worked for half a century.

My guess is that Tippit wasn't entirely an innocent. Otherwise, how would he know to wait at the Gloco Station for Harvey Oswald to get off a bus that he usually didn't take? But beyond that is sheer speculation. It’s kind of weird, though, that Tippit was a regular around the 10th and Patton neighborhood, nowhere near his home or his regular beat. Virginia Davis thought Tippit lived in the duplex apartment at 408/410 E. 10th, right next to the murder scene. Many other locals said they saw him around all the time and knew him as “Friendly.” There was a single woman whose name I forget who lived in that duplex? Could she have been a Tippit girlfriend? Or even a honey trap for him?

John speculates that, if Tippit was a conspirator, this familiar territory might have been a good place to meet up with his co-conspirators, Westbrook, Croy, and Lee Oswald. From the eyewitness descriptions of his murder, he had no inkling he was being double-crossed.
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I do think, though, that the Tippit murder was premeditated, not so much by the DPD per se as by Westbrook, Croy and .... uh .... a guy who looked a bit like the "Lee Harvey Oswald" we all think we know, but was wearing a white t-shirt and dark pants in the early afternoon of 11/22/63. I think Westbrook brought the infamous wallet to 10th & Patton and introduced it into evidence there. I think he got the Eisenhower jacket and a .38 revolver from a certain person in a white t-shirt who , again, looked a little like the LHO we all think we know.

Jim,

I can see reasons for premeditation, or execution of a backup plan. "LHO" dropping his wallet at the crime scene is too 'over the top' to have been planned. Especially when another wallet was "found on LHO" when he was arrested. You'd think the original plan would have been coordinated to a high degree.

Was there a reason for killing JDT other than making LHO a "cop-killer?"

Tom

Tom,

I agree that dropping a wallet seems over the top for a plot to frame LHO. But how else can the wallet be explained? Are you saying that maybe it was part of a seat-of-the-pants backup operation?

If so, I wonder why the perps happened to have the wallet in their possession. (Maybe they had a whole war chest full of LHO-related props?)

check nagell's trunk

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John has been mulling over these issues for a long time. His thinking now is that Westbrook and LEE Oswald probably met in an alley or some place similar right after the shooting and there LEE handed Westbrook the wallet, the jacket and the murder weapon.

Mrs. Doris Holan arguably had the best view of the scene from her house on the 2nd floor at 409 E Tenth Street, directly across the street. She is one of the few, if not the only, eyewitness to the Tippit shooting, that was in a position to see the second squad car in the narrow driveway. She said the second man (probably Westbrook) approached the body "seconds" after the final shot.

My guess is that Tippit wasn't entirely an innocent. Otherwise, how would he know to wait at the Gloco Station for Harvey Oswald to get off a bus that he usually didn't take? But beyond that is sheer speculation. Its kind of weird, though, that Tippit was a regular around the 10th and Patton neighborhood, nowhere near his home or his regular beat. Virginia Davis thought Tippit lived in the duplex apartment at 408/410 E. 10th, right next to the murder scene. Many other locals said they saw him around all the time and knew him as Friendly. There was a single woman whose name I forget who lived in that duplex? Could she have been a Tippit girlfriend? Or even a honey trap for him?

Jim,

The meeting of Westbrook and LHO after the shooting seems very reasonable to me, and is one of several scenarios I proposed.

Did Aquilla Clemmons and/or Doris Holan provide descriptions of the two men she saw moments before the shooting?

No doubt in my mind that due to his actions just prior to his death, JDT had something to do with the plot.

If the plan was to take out JDT, I have to wonder why "LHO" waited until Westbrook arrived before taking out JDT? LHO was supposedly acting entirely on his own, and it wasn't necessary for Westbrook to risk being spotted at the murder scene. I'm not convinced whether the original plan was to take out JDT or not. It seems entirely possible to me that JDT did something unacceptable and had to be silenced.

JDT supposedly had a married girlfriend living at or very near to the murder scene. There has been speculation that her husband killed him, but that scenario seems to have fallen out of favor.

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Jim,

The meeting of Westbrook and LHO after the shooting seems very reasonable to me, and is one of several scenarios I proposed.

Did Aquilla Clemmons and/or Doris Holan provide descriptions of the two men she saw moments before the shooting?

No doubt in my mind that due to his actions just prior to his death, JDT had something to do with the plot.

If the plan was to take out JDT, I have to wonder why "LHO" waited until Westbrook arrived before taking out JDT? LHO was supposedly acting entirely on his own, and it wasn't necessary for Westbrook to risk being spotted at the murder scene. I'm not convinced whether the original plan was to take out JDT or not. It seems entirely possible to me that JDT did something unacceptable and had to be silenced.

JDT supposedly had a married girlfriend living at or very near to the murder scene. There has been speculation that her husband killed him, but that scenario seems to have fallen out of favor.

LEE Oswald probably waited for Westbrook to arrive to give him the go ahead to kill Tippit. He surely wanted the approval of someone in a higher place before shooting a Dallas cop in broad daylight. This was a well-planned ambush, and everyone was playing out a role.
LEE Oswald’s job was to shoot Tippit and to be seen doing it, especially as he made his way toward the Texas Theater, probably soon meeting Westbrook to hand over the incriminating evidence. Westbrook’s job was clearly to confirm Tippit’s death, or the plot couldn’t continue. TIPPIT HAD TO BE DEAD before his shooting could be blamed on the poor schmuck already sitting in the Texas Theater and wearing a brown shirt (HARVEY Oswald). Westbrook was calling the shots (sorry) at Tenth & Patton, but unlike the guy in the white t-shirt (LEE Oswald), Westbrook did NOT want to be seen, and only a couple of people saw him.
Doris Holan was in the best position to see everything, because she was directly across the street from the narrow driveway in which Westbrook emerged from the squad car, and she was on the second floor, able to easily see over Tippit’s car into the narrow driveway.
And remember, Jack Tatum saw the scene and said that Tippit and his killer appeared to be friends. Under the circumstances, wouldn’t Tippit have had every reason to be suspicious of someone resembling LEE Oswald? These guys knew each other, and this whole thing was carefully planned.
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Tom, Aquila Clemens described the man with the gun as "short and kind of heavy" and wearing "khaki and a white shirt" -

The second man was thin and tall rather than short.

Thanks, Ray. Now if we only knew if Westbrook fit the description.

While searching for video of Westbrook, I found film taken by Ron Reiland of WFAA TV in Dallas. At the JDT murder scene, a closeup of a wallet is seen in the hand of policeman. Reiland himself narrating the film states that "the officer's billfold was found" at the crime scene.

Hmmmmmmm...

EDIT: After ALL this chatter about LHO's wallet found at the murder scene and NO ONE finds it interesting that only hours after JDT's murder, the TV cameraman who took footage of the wallet states on live TV that the wallet belonged to TIPPIT not OSWALD.

Edited by Tom Neal
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