Jim Hargrove Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Steve Thomas said: Didn't Hoover post an international alert in 1960 that somebody might be using Oswald's birth certificate? Yes. See the last paragraph in the 6/3/1960 document from Hoover below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 On 11/20/2018 at 10:22 AM, Jim Hargrove said: Yes. See the last paragraph in the 6/3/1960 document from Hoover below. Jim, Fain's Report of May 12th was predicated on an interview he conducted with Marguerite, Oswald's mother. At that time she told Fain the Oswald was 5'10" tall, weighed 165 lbs and had blue eyes and light-brown, wavy hair. I was thinking this morning of Hoover's use of the word "imposter". He could have just said, "someone was using Oswald's birth certificate"; but instead, he used the word, "imposter". That sounds pretty close to saying, "someone was posing as Oswald". Or maybe I'm just stretching things a bit. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 34 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: I was thinking this morning of Hoover's use of the word "imposter". He could have just said, "someone was using Oswald's birth certificate"; but instead, he used the word, "imposter". That sounds pretty close to saying, "someone was posing as Oswald". Or maybe I'm just stretching things a bit In the same vein... "I'm just a Patsy" is not "I am innocent" but suggests the awareness of a plan where Oswald is the scapegoat... the patsy. I find it impossible that Hoover didn't know... and kept quiet due to our incredible lack of USSR data... and by the way... there is a page 2 of that letter guys (despite it NEVER being shown in search results)... and in June 1960 Hoover is asking about Albert Schweitzer College AND the FBI offers the wrong "last address" given that Oswald filled out the SEPERATION PAPERS in Sept 1959 listing 3124 W 5th St in Ft Worth... The Collinwood address was on the Oct 15, 1956 "Declaration of Parental Consent" (Folsom Ex#1 p35) We are to remember that GORSKY tells us LEE separated from the Marines in March 1959.... the date on this application - March 19,1959.... Mack Osbourne telling us he remembers Oswald's disappointment at not being accepted... The conflicting dates and responses suggests that 2 different people named LEE OSWALD were involved with the ASC and the trip to Minsk... Add to that this account by the Steenbargers and the established fact very little about Oswald's post-marine/pre-Minsk travel makes sense from London's Heathrow to arriving in Minsk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 51 minutes ago, David Josephs said: Add to that this account by the Steenbargers and the established fact very little about Oswald's post-marine/pre-Minsk travel makes sense from London's Heathrow to arriving in Minsk. David, I don't know if this adds to anything, but, Commission Document 498 - SS Rowley Memorandum of 13 Mar 1964 Forwarding Reports https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10898&search=%22Harvey_Lee+Oswald%22#relPageId=37&tab=page pp. 37-38. The Report is titled, Harvey Lee Oswald. SS Protective Research Report by Kenneth J. Weisman of an interview with Billy Joe Lord, who traveled to Europe with Oswald aboard the SS Marion Lykes. Lord constantly refers to “Harvey Lee Oswald” whom he found to be “unfriendly, standoffish, and that the two of them “didn't hit off”. (p. 38.) The Report was written by Weisman on February 28, 1964 and approved by a Jose (?)(Benavides?)(sic?) on March 2, 1964. The name, Harvey Lee Oswald is used seven times in the same document. This, by a trained agent in SS Protective Research office. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 15 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said: The name, Harvey Lee Oswald is used seven times in the same document. This, by a trained agent in SS Protective Research office. Exactly.... They finally got it right.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Simpich Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 A final note on Hunt's whereabouts in Mexico City... HSCA staffer Leslie Wizelman's notes indicate that Hunt was chief of station in Mexico City back in 1950 - till no later than 1953. I see no documents at all indicating that Hunt was anywhere near Mexico City after the Bay of Pigs. Her notes also indicate that Hunt was a contract agent in Spain during 1965-66. What "WU" stands for is still disputed - I think it refers to operations that use proprietaries. The "Anne Goodpasture should be in jail." quote? Dan Hardway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Bill Simpich said: A final note on Hunt's whereabouts in Mexico City... HSCA staffer Leslie Wizelman's notes indicate that Hunt was chief of station in Mexico City back in 1950 - till no later than 1953. I see no documents at all indicating that Hunt was anywhere near Mexico City after the Bay of Pigs. Her notes also indicate that Hunt was a contract agent in Spain during 1965-66. What "WU" stands for is still disputed - I think it refers to operations that use proprietaries. The "Anne Goodpasture should be in jail." quote? Dan Hardway. Bill - you said previously that you think Hunt might have been operating in Spain in 1963. I’m very curious about this. Very interesting that you think WU refers to operations using proproetaries, and not specifically to Haiti. Do you have a hunch who was WUBRINY-2? Edited November 23, 2018 by Paul Brancato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Simpich Posted November 23, 2018 Share Posted November 23, 2018 On the WU digraph: During April-May 63, Ross Crozier is described as a SAS career officer, and also working with Charles Ford (wingman to both RFK and Bill Harvey) and answering to Stanley Gaines at DODS (Howard Hunt's boss), who has arranged for space for him at the office of the WUOUTDONE company, Room 633. On Spain: I don't know a lot about Hunt and Spain, so all I can do is rely on the unreliable Wikipedia, quoting Hunt in 1974: "...Hunt said that some of his projects from 1962 to 1966, which dealt largely with the subsidizing and manipulation of news and publishing organizations in the US, "did seem to violate the intent of the agency's charter."[14] In 1964, DCI John A. McCone directed Hunt to take a special assignment as a Non-Official Cover (NOC) officer in Madrid, Spain, tasked to create the American answer to Ian Fleming's British MI-6 James Bond novel series. While assigned in Spain, Hunt was covered as a recently retired U.S. State Department Foreign Service Officer (FSO) who had moved his family to Spain in order to write the first installment of the 9-novel Peter Ward series, On Hazardous Duty (1965). After a year and a half in Spain, Hunt returned to his assignment at DODS..." I do notice that Hunt allegedly met with Souetre and another man in Madrid in mid-1963. There is a story that the American ambassador Stanley Woodward did not want Hunt at the embassy in Madrid in 1963 (others say 1964) because of Hunt's attempt to overthrow the Uruguayan president in the late fifties without letting the Americans know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted November 23, 2018 Author Share Posted November 23, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bill Simpich said: I do notice that Hunt allegedly met with Souetre and another man in Madrid in mid-1963. There is a story that the American ambassador Stanley Woodward did not want Hunt at the embassy in Madrid in 1963 (others say 1964) because of Hunt's attempt to overthrow the Uruguayan president in the late fifties without letting the Americans know. Bill’s source for the Hunt/Souetre 1963 meeting is a lengthy affidavit filed by Bernard Fensterwald on behalf of Gary Shaw in 1980’s Shaw v Department of State lawsuit brought in DC District Court. The specific page referenced alleges that Jean Souetre not only met with E. Howard Hunt in Madrid in 1963, but that he also met that same year with Carlos Bringieur in New Orleans, Edwin Walker in Dallas, and even trained anti-Castro Cubans around Lake Pontchartrain. Does this strike anyone as suspicious? The affidavit soon delved into issues such as Eugene Dinkin and the French/Algerian OAS terrorists. Without getting too deep into the woods on those issues, I’d like to know if any others here have an opinion about the allegations of Souetre’s suspicious meetings in 1963 and thereabouts. The affidavit, titled “A POSSIBLE FRENCH CONNECTION,” includes a verbatim quote from an April 1964 CIA document stating that Souetre was in Fort Worth in the morning of 11/22/63, in Dallas during that same afternoon and was expelled, the French believed, to either Canada or Mexico about 48 hours after the assassination. The affidavit has a total of 47 source notes, including books, newspapers, magazines, and government documents. Edited November 24, 2018 by Jim Hargrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) On 11/23/2018 at 5:53 PM, Jim Hargrove said: Bill’s source for the Hunt/Souetre 1963 meeting is a lengthy affidavit filed by Bernard Fensterwald on behalf of Gary Shaw in 1980’s Shaw v Department of State lawsuit brought in DC District Court. Edited December 14, 2018 by Steve Thomas deleted from this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 Thanks, Steve... this is interesting. According to Dick Russell, Le Cavelier also said: “Arms were furnished by the intermediary at the [American] Guantanamo naval base [in Cuba]. Training took place at the New Orleans region of Mandeville. Their Q-G (‘Quartier General’ or ‘Headquarters’) was 544 Camp St.” [TMWKTM, p. 562] It had never occurred to me that Le Cavelier’s anti-OAS position might have colored his reports. I’ll try to find the time to look into that, as well as Irving Brown. This reminds me, though, that my long held opinion about JFK research is that the field has become so vast many of us have to specialize in order to cope. The "Oswald Project" is complicated enough, at least for me! And so more about that below.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted November 24, 2018 Author Share Posted November 24, 2018 On 11/21/2018 at 11:47 AM, Steve Thomas said: Fain's Report of May 12th was predicated on an interview he conducted with Marguerite, Oswald's mother. At that time she told Fain the Oswald was 5'10" tall, weighed 165 lbs and had blue eyes and light-brown, wavy hair. Which really sounds more like American-born LEE Oswald than Russian-speaking HARVEY. LEE was taller and heavier than HARVEY. Some of this was done, I think, for domestic consumption here in the U.S. LEE Oswald had spent enough time in the Dallas-Fort Worth area that some people might have noticed the difference in appearance from HARVEY in a good picture. That is probably why someone in U.S. intel provided the following image to a news service, soon published in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” That photo is about as washed-out in the image above as it was in the Nov. 1, 1959 printed version of the Star Telegram. Not much risk there in someone noticing this wasn’t the Oswald they knew in Fort Worth! Decades later, John Armstrong wrote to Associated Press/Wide Work Photos and asked for a clearer copy of the “defection” photo above. This is what he got: WC defenders will be quick to tell us this is just the sort of thing that happens with photography. Heh-heh-heh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 (edited) On 11/24/2018 at 9:38 AM, Jim Hargrove said: Thanks, Steve... this is interesting. It had never occurred to me that Le Cavelier’s anti-OAS position might have colored his reports. I’ll try to find the time to look into that, as well as Irving Brown. Deleted. Edited August 17, 2022 by Steve Thomas deleted from this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted November 25, 2018 Author Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) Hmmm.... I really couldn’t follow all of that, but.... If the summary of Souetre’s travels and meetings in 1963 are accurate, and if it was true that he was in Dallas on November 22, 1963, and that he was expelled from the U.S. about 48 hours after the hit, this strikes me as an area well worth additional research. Unfortunately, beyond the April 1, 1964 CIA document, these allegations in Fensterwald’s affidavit are largely unsourced, at least in the material we have. Edited November 25, 2018 by Jim Hargrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) On 11/25/2018 at 2:48 PM, Jim Hargrove said: Hmmm.... I really couldn’t follow all of that, but.... If the summary of Souetre’s travels and meetings in 1963 are accurate, and if it was true that he was in Dallas on November 22, 1963, and that he was expelled from the U.S. about 48 hours after the hit, this strikes me as an area well worth additional research. Unfortunately, beyond the April 1, 1964 CIA document, these allegations in Fensterwald’s affidavit are largely unsourced, at least in the material we have. Edited December 14, 2018 by Steve Thomas deleted from this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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