Jump to content
The Education Forum
  • Announcements

    • Evan Burton

      OPEN REGISTRATION BY EMAIL ONLY !!! PLEASE CLICK ON THIS TITLE FOR INFORMATION REQUIRED FOR REGISTRATION!:   06/03/2017

      We have 5 requirements for registration: 1.Sign up with your real name. (This will be your Username) 2.A valid email address 3.Your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403. 4. Your photo for use as an avatar  5.. A brief biography. We will post these for you, and send you your password. We cannot approve membership until we receive these. If you are interested, please send an email to: edforumbusiness@outlook.com We look forward to having you as a part of the Forum! Sincerely, The Education Forum Team

Recommended Posts

In July 2016 we (that's ROKC for you) tried to get hold of Roy Truly's deleted testimony at the National Archives.

Paying 90 bucks for it to be transferred from dicta belt recording to digital format.

We were told after one month and expecting the digital copy to be sent to us that it would need to be sent to a different company (not their most trusted one which we paid the money to originally) to have it digitised, transcribed and then vetted and wait for it to be allowed to be released

 We would get an answer in Oct 2016, as said by Dan Roony at the National Archives.

We waited and waited and then lost the will to ask for the umpteenth time when we could get our hands on a copy,

Fast forward Nov 2017 and Dennis Morissette gets a copy without any hassle (cost $ 110.00) and in the end it is merely someone else reciting about 80% of Roy Truly's testimony.

What a crock.........

 

 

Edited by Bart Kamp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

In July 2016 we (that's ROKC for you) tried to get hold of Roy Truly's deleted testimony at the National Archives.

Paying 90 bucks for it to be transferred from dicta belt recording to digital format.

We were told after one month and expecting the digital copy to be sent to us that it would need to be sent to a different company (not their most trusted one which we paid the money to originally) to have it digitised, transcribed and then vetted and wait for it to be allowed to be released

 We would get an answer in Oct 2016, as said by Dan Roony at the National Archives.

We waited and waited and then lost the will to ask for the umpteenth time when we could get our hands on a copy,

Fast forward Nov 2017 and Dennis Morissette gets a copy without any hassle (cost $ 110.00) and in the end it is merely someone else reciting about 80% of Roy Truly's testimony.

What a crock.........

 

 

A few thoughts on this thread.

Bart Kamp is correct in his ID of Shelley and Lovelady in Couch/Darnell. The person in the film IDed by others as being in the Lovelady position is, to me, a woman.  That Shelley and Lovelady were on the run around the building within 30 seconds is, of course, corroborated by the WC's re-inactment of Baker's run to the building, and Shelley and Lovelady's claim they looked back and saw Baker run up to the building.

This is important for a couple of reasons. It proves that they were dead wrong about the time it took them to re-enter the building, and that they could have been the two men Baker saw by the elevators. And it supports Vickie Adams' initial claim she saw them when she reached the first floor.

Now, I know some would like to exploit the inconsistencies in the stories of Baker and Truly to make it seem as though they never ran up the back stairs, but this is wrong-headed, in my opinion. That Baker and Truly called an elevator from the fifth (or sixth) floor, ran up to see Oswald on the second floor, and then noticed the west elevator was missing upon their arrival on the fifth floor, is one of the most important pieces of evidence establishing Oswald's innocence, as it proves an unidentified person who was not Oswald descended from the upper floors after the shooting.

While Ball, Belin, and the WC pretended this elevator was used by Jack Dougherty, they really had no evidence in support of this, and essentially decided he was retarded and that this allowed them to pretend he was anywhere they needed him to be so they could pin the blame on Oswald.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

A few thoughts on this thread.

Bart Kamp is correct in his ID of Shelley and Lovelady in Couch/Darnell. The person in the film IDed by others as being in the Lovelady position is, to me, a woman.  That Shelley and Lovelady were on the run around the building within 30 seconds is, of course, corroborated by the WC's re-inactment of Baker's run to the building, and Shelley and Lovelady's claim they looked back and saw Baker run up to the building.

This is important for a couple of reasons. It proves that they were dead wrong about the time it took them to re-enter the building, and that they could have been the two men Baker saw by the elevators. And it supports Vickie Adams' initial claim she saw them when she reached the first floor.

Now, I know some would like to exploit the inconsistencies in the stories of Baker and Truly to make it seem as though they never ran up the back stairs, but this is wrong-headed, in my opinion. That Baker and Truly called an elevator from the fifth (or sixth) floor, ran up to see Oswald on the second floor, and then noticed the west elevator was missing upon their arrival on the fifth floor, is one of the most important pieces of evidence establishing Oswald's innocence, as it proves an unidentified person who was not Oswald descended from the upper floors after the shooting.

While Ball, Belin, and the WC pretended this elevator was used by Jack Dougherty, they really had no evidence in support of this, and essentially decided he was retarded and that this allowed them to pretend he was anywhere they needed him to be so they could pin the blame on Oswald.


FWIW I disagree with everything Pat says and what Bart believes regarding Lovelady and Shelley right after the assassination.. The Darnell/Couch stabilized GIF clearly shows Lovelady still on the steps ~30 seconds after the assassination, talking to Gloria Calvery, with no sign of Bill Shelley on the steps (as he is inside calling his wife). This scenario fit's all the first-day affidavits.

Vicki Adams did not testify that she saw Lovelady and Shelley upon exiting the first-floor stairway. She says she didn't. The FBI altered her testimony in order to discredit her claim that she went down the steps as early as she said.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As demonstrated in chapter 4 of my website, it is simply not true that Lovelady and Shelley's testimony undermined Adams' claim she saw them after descending the stairs.

If you think that they did, then you were suckered by the WC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

As demonstrated in chapter 4 of my website, it is simply not true that Lovelady and Shelley's testimony undermined Adams' claim she saw them after descending the stairs.

If you think that they did, then you were suckered by the WC.

 

I never claimed what you are saying here.

Barry Ernest wrote a book about Victoria Adams named "The Girl on the Stairs." Naturally he interviewed her for the book. She told him that she did NOT see Lovelady or Shelley when she exited the stairwell on the first floor. Yet the transcript of her testimony has her saying that she DID see them. The WC changed her testimony.

The reason the WC did that was to discredit her testimony that she ran down the steps early. Because had she done so, she would have seen or heard Oswald coming down the stairs (according to the WC's official story). Which she didn't. By having her "see" Shelley and Lovelady, the WC makes it so that she came down the steps a few minutes later than what she'd said.

On this page Barry Ernest wrote:

"Vicki Adams denied seeing William Shelley and Billy Lovelady on the first floor when she arrived there. Sandra Styles provided strong corroboration that those two men weren’t around. Additional evidence backs up and is consistent with the truthfulness of Miss Adams."

So Vicki Adams and Sandra Styles both say that Shelley and Lovelady weren't there. Shelley and Lovelady said nothing about going there in their first day affidavits.. Their stories evolved into their being there via the TSBD west entrance. And that's what they testified to for the WC. The Darnell film shows they lied in their later (1964) statements and testimony.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

A few thoughts on this thread.

Bart Kamp is correct in his ID of Shelley and Lovelady in Couch/Darnell. The person in the film IDed by others as being in the Lovelady position is, to me, a woman.  That Shelley and Lovelady were on the run around the building within 30 seconds is, of course, corroborated by the WC's re-inactment of Baker's run to the building, and Shelley and Lovelady's claim they looked back and saw Baker run up to the building.

This is important for a couple of reasons. It proves that they were dead wrong about the time it took them to re-enter the building, and that they could have been the two men Baker saw by the elevators. And it supports Vickie Adams' initial claim she saw them when she reached the first floor.

Now, I know some would like to exploit the inconsistencies in the stories of Baker and Truly to make it seem as though they never ran up the back stairs, but this is wrong-headed, in my opinion. That Baker and Truly called an elevator from the fifth (or sixth) floor, ran up to see Oswald on the second floor, and then noticed the west elevator was missing upon their arrival on the fifth floor, is one of the most important pieces of evidence establishing Oswald's innocence, as it proves an unidentified person who was not Oswald descended from the upper floors after the shooting.

While Ball, Belin, and the WC pretended this elevator was used by Jack Dougherty, they really had no evidence in support of this, and essentially decided he was retarded and that this allowed them to pretend he was anywhere they needed him to be so they could pin the blame on Oswald.

Doyle is doing a jig as we speak, but that is anything BUT a woman, and like Jim D. said a year or so ago, "she" must be a heavy steroids user.

Lovelady, who lied through his teeth during his WC testimony said during his HSCA testimony he did not get back until 20/25 mins after the deed! And he is seen having a ciggie on the steps at about 12:50 while waiting to be let in (Hughes and Martin films)

What WC re=enactment of Baker and Truly? No one could ever attest of seeing them starting their 'trip' outside at any given time! I have also added plenty of proof that they did not storm into the building as has been claimed by them. Nor is there any proof that Shelley and Lovelady looked back. Lovelady only mentioned the copper running ahead of him towards the railroad yard on the 23rd in a newspaper. All can be found in my paper.

Vicky Adams did NOT see them, that story only surfaced in Feb 64 when Jim "grand xxxx" Leavelle showed up on her doorstep, one day after she had moved in and was not even regged at that address. 

That Baker and Truly ran up the back stairs is not disputed at all, where do you get this from? I dispute the timing of it, it happened much later.

Your overall conclusion are way too simplistic and are backdated. I suggest you read the updated paper. I am surprised I have to bring all this up again.

Read the paper HERE.

 

Edited by Bart Kamp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bart,

I believe that the bloke Pat mistakes for a sheila is the guy Tommy Graves and I claim to be Lovelady, standing there on the steps talking to the woman we claim to be Gloria Calvery.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gentlemen, I appreciate your discourse, it enlightens me as to details, please continue.  But has it not come to a point in History where those of us who question the official story developed at the time and sanctioned by the Warren Omission can say What Second Floor Encounter?  It Never Happened. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×