Anatomy Of The Second Floor Lunch Room Encounter

[Guest]

You are most welcome B.A. Copeland 

This tiny snippet is ever so telling.

[John Butler]

Bart,

I want to give you a shout out for your work.  Great stuff.  I tried to do something on this a short time back.  I didn’t know of this.  You’ve done it all.  Truly a good and interesting thread.

I thought I had something new but, you were there and had it covered years ago.  Thanks for your good work.

[Guest]

Thank you John, only trying to collect whatever is available and bringing it out there, with the help of some great friends.

[Guest]

Richard Gilbride wrote a new piece which rambles on every page, he released it as part of a set at DPF, the only place that tolerates his presence still and I reviewed two of them. Only two otherwise I lose the will to live....gosh it is so bad and filled with speculations and innuendo.

He even brings in the ultimate dross interview of Brian Doyle which by itself kills off the 2FLRE as Oswald was having his coke before the parade came by, just like the joint Hosty and Bookhout report, geddit David von Pein!!!!

Gilbride even suspiciously leaves out Doyle's utter rubbish assumption of Sarah Stanton wearing a wig for professional reasons, too stupid to even contemplate....

Here you go.

http://www.prayer-man.com/richard-gilbride-refuses-to-learn/

 

Jerry Dealey is next.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Bart Kamp

[James DiEugenio]

Doyle said that Stanton was wearing a wig that day?

 

Why?

[Guest]

For professional reasons.....I mean his Prayer Woman having black hair does not rhyme with Sarah Stanton's white hair so he asked the kids whether she ever wore a wig or dyed her hair, for professional reason which got them laughing.

You think no one would bother coming up with such insane dreck, yet Doyle has managed to. In Doyle's world anything is possible.

 

And here when his BS theories really go belly-up and I am quoting from a post in early Nov 2018.

 Harvey most likely went to the Domino Room after Baker and Truly encountered him...Lee was seen by Mrs Reid and then went down to the foyer where he was stopped and told to stand aside...The "Out Front With Shelley" statement was given by Harvey who saw Shelley not out front but in the Domino Room after Shelley split from Lovelady...Harvey then exited the rear and was seen by Frazier going up Houston and crossing over to Elm and eventually the bus/taxi encounter...Lee also exited the back and was seen by Roger Craig getting in the station wagon...

 

You cannot argue against a fairy tale like that can you

Edited January 16, 2019 by Bart Kamp

[Guest]

Update number 5 is out, been a year since I did one.

http://www.prayer-man.com/anatomy-of-the-second-floor-lunch-room-encounter-v5-march-2019/

[John Butler]

6 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Update number 5 is out, been a year since I did one.

http://www.prayer-man.com/anatomy-of-the-second-floor-lunch-room-encounter-v5-march-2019/

People have said this numerous times.  The photos clinch what people were saying.  There is always something good coming from Prayer-Man.Com.   You are getting me to the point where I am spoiled and expecting more and more good things from Kamp and Co.

Edited March 23, 2019 by John Butler

[Guest]

Thanks John. Over the next two weeks I have a few Posts and my next paper coming out so plenty to go through

Edited March 25, 2019 by Bart Kamp

[John Kozlowski]

On 1/16/2019 at 12:11 PM, Bart Kamp said:

For professional reasons.....I mean his Prayer Woman having black hair does not rhyme with Sarah Stanton's white hair so he asked the kids whether she ever wore a wig or dyed her hair, for professional reason which got them laughing.

You think no one would bother coming up with such insane dreck, yet Doyle has managed to. In Doyle's world anything is possible.

 

And here when his BS theories really go belly-up and I am quoting from a post in early Nov 2018.

 Harvey most likely went to the Domino Room after Baker and Truly encountered him...Lee was seen by Mrs Reid and then went down to the foyer where he was stopped and told to stand aside...The "Out Front With Shelley" statement was given by Harvey who saw Shelley not out front but in the Domino Room after Shelley split from Lovelady...Harvey then exited the rear and was seen by Frazier going up Houston and crossing over to Elm and eventually the bus/taxi encounter...Lee also exited the back and was seen by Roger Craig getting in the station wagon...

 

You cannot argue against a fairy tale like that can you

Lol is that from the video of him singing Jefferson airplane? The one where it looks like he has a body wrapped up in the back seat

[Paul Jolliffe]

On 7/31/2016 at 2:27 AM, Bart Kamp said:

Last April I spoke about the second floor lunch room encounter as part of my Prayer Man presentation at the 14th DPUK seminar in Canterbury. Afterwards I wasn't happy with that segment to which Barry Keane suggested I'd write it up, which I did not realising the task that lay ahead.

At the link below I tried to cram every bit of info in there that is available on this alleged encounter, and that has had a negative effect on the software that published it as I managed to crash it and, at this time, cannot edit it at all any more.Once that is solved I will make a couple of minor edits.

There will be an interactive presentation to follow,

http://www.prayer-man.com/anatomy-of-the-second-floor-lunch-room-encounter/

Bart,

Can you clear something up for me? I just read all of your post, and I appreciate all of the hard work you put into this.

So, did Marrion Baker actually run up into the TSBD as implied (but not actually seen) in the Weigman and Couch films, or not? You spent some time on the topic and raised some excellent reasons to wonder, but I don't see a definitive statement one way or the other. 

If he did not, then where the heck did he go?

Or, did he actually enter quite a bit later (5 - 10 minutes later, maybe?)

I mean, surely the whole "we searched the roof of the TSBD" story is based on a real search, right? The timing may be off, from the perspective of the WC narrative, though. And that, of course, screws up their attempt to pin it on "Oswald" - if Baker and Truly did NOT confront "Oswald" in the 2nd floor lunchroom shortly after the shots, then "Oswald's" alibi - he was on the first floor at the time of the shots - would remain intact. Therefore, from the WC view, it was crucial to get Baker and Truly up to that 2nd floor lunchroom ASAP. Which meant Baker had to enter immediately, from the WC no-conspiracy point of view. 

So, did Marrion Baker actually run up the steps of the TSBD and race up the stairs with Truly within 30 seconds after the shots, or not? Why does the motorcycle cop in the Weigman and Couch films appear to be passing the front steps, or at least, not taking a direct route to them?

[Guest]

On 3/24/2019 at 12:42 AM, John Kozlowski said:

Lol is that from the video of him singing Jefferson airplane? The one where it looks like he has a body wrapped up in the back seat

Yes to the first part, regarding the second bit one could only speculate.

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Paul Jolliffe said:

Bart,

Can you clear something up for me? I just read all of your post, and I appreciate all of the hard work you put into this.

So, did Marrion Baker actually run up into the TSBD as implied (but not actually seen) in the Weigman and Couch films, or not? You spent some time on the topic and raised some excellent reasons to wonder, but I don't see a definitive statement one way or the other. 

If he did not, then where the heck did he go?

Or, did he actually enter quite a bit later (5 - 10 minutes later, maybe?)

I mean, surely the whole "we searched the roof of the TSBD" story is based on a real search, right? The timing may be off, from the perspective of the WC narrative, though. And that, of course, screws up their attempt to pin it on "Oswald" - if Baker and Truly did NOT confront "Oswald" in the 2nd floor lunchroom shortly after the shots, then "Oswald's" alibi - he was on the first floor at the time of the shots - would remain intact. Therefore, from the WC view, it was crucial to get Baker and Truly up to that 2nd floor lunchroom ASAP. Which meant Baker had to enter immediately, from the WC no-conspiracy point of view. 

So, did Marrion Baker actually run up the steps of the TSBD and race up the stairs with Truly within 30 seconds after the shots, or not? Why does the motorcycle cop in the Weigman and Couch films appear to be passing the front steps, or at least, not taking a direct route to them?

Paul, pages 29-30 of my paper go into that matter. It looks more than likely that Baker went to the corner of the building or even a little further to see if there was a shooter in Dal-Tex or that someone would come down the fire escape on the east side of the TSBD. Baker did not go into the building as claimed.

Furthermore continue reading up page 44, which will go into your other questions.

 

Best

BK

[Paul Jolliffe]

4 hours ago, Bart Kamp said:

Paul, pages 29-30 of my paper go into that matter. It looks more than likely that Baker went to the corner of the building or even a little further to see if there was a shooter in Dal-Tex or that someone would come down the fire escape on the east side of the TSBD. Baker did not go into the building as claimed.

Furthermore continue reading up page 44, which will go into your other questions.

 

Best

BK

Bart,

I have to tell you, your find of the Truly quote/explanation in the Odessa American newspaper from April of 1964 is remarkable. In it, Truly verified what Charles Brennan implied to the Warren Commission: that Brennan ran across Elm to the front of the TSBD and spoke to Marrion Baker - outside the TSBD, before Baker made his "run"! 

Brennan only approached his unnamed DPD cop after realizing that the police search was concentrating on the rail yards, west of the TSBD. This, of course took time, and Brennan wanted to alert the authorities to the presence of the gunman on the sixth floor.

In his words:

Mr. BRENNAN. I knew I had to get to someone quick to tell them where the man was. So I ran or I walked--there is a possibility I ran, because I have a habit of, when something has to be done in a hurry, I run. And there was one officer standing at the corner of the Texas Book Store on the street. It didn't seem to me he was going in any direction. He was standing still. 
Mr. BELIN. What did you do or what did you say to him? 
Mr. BRENNAN. I asked him to get me someone in charge, a Secret Service man or an FBI. That it appeared to me that they were searching in the wrong direction for the man that did the shooting. 
And he was definitely in the building on the sixth floor. "

From the April, 1964 Odessa American interview with Roy Truly, here is his version of the Truly/Baker encounter with Brennan:

"The man (Brennan) was standing on the wall of a monument near Elm Street. He looked toward the building and saw the killer aiming the rifle. The shots were fired and he ran across the street where the policeman and I were standing" Truly said. "He yelled to us that the man was on the fourth floor and told us what kind of clothes he was wearing. I understand he later identified Oswald as the killer at police headquarters."

Bart, this encounter between Truly, Baker and Brennan destroys the Warren Commission version of events. Yet it is confirmed by Truly himself! 

Baker did not immediately run into the TSBD! He was "standing still" outside!

I believe in Truly's testimony there is even a hint of that encounter:

"Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do or see? 
Mr. TRULY. I heard a policeman in this area along here make a remark, "Oh, goddam," or something like that. I just remember that. It wasn't a motorcycle policeman. It was one of the Dallas policeman, I think-- words to that effect.
I wouldn't know him. I just remember there was a policeman standing along in this area about 7, 8, or 10 feet from me.
But as I came back here, and everybody was screaming and hollering . . . "

"Everybody was screaming and hollering" was similar to what Truly told the newspaper in April about how Brennan "yelled" at Baker and Truly.

Further, note how Truly went out of his way in his Warren Commission testimony to make sure everyone knew that he, Roy Truly, could not identify the unnamed Dallas cop who was "standing along in this area about 7, 8 or 10 feet from me." 

Roy sure wanted us to know, though that "I wouldn't know him . . . it wasn't a motorcycle cop". 

Of course not, Roy. We all believe you and everything you say . . .

Bart, am I correct that in Truly's Warren Commission testimony there are clear hints as to the truth about Baker's entry into the TSBD?
 

[Guest]

Roy Truly lied through his teeth about this part, just as he lied about the actual encounter. The problem with both instances is that he gives away too much detail and then gets entangled in it and goes into  'I don't know' mode. 

The whole description of how they met on the stairs and ran in or in the vestibule resembles Swiss cheese manufactured by Doyle.