More Phoney Rifle Documents--Proof!

[Jim Hargrove]

SUMMARY OF C2766. Some 8-9 hours after President Kennedy was shot in Dallas, Crescent Firearms owner/President Louis Feldsott gave his company's original records relating to the importing and sale of C2766 to the FBI. According to company records Crescent Firearms sold C2766 to Klein's Sporting Goods on June 18, 1962. Klein's then re-sold this rifle (C2766) to an individual who's identity appeared on Klein's original microfilm records. On 11/23/63 three FBI agents examined Klein's original microfilm records and most likely knew the identity of the person who purchased C2766. But that person was not Oswald/Hidell. The identity of this person remains unknown. The FBI agents took the original Klein's microfilm, which was soon hand delivered to FBI headquarters in Washington DC. The Klein's microfilm soon disappeared while in FBI custody.

The following document (below, left) is a synopsis of information provided by Louis Feldsott (Crescent Firearms) to the Warren Commission. The WC knew that Feldsott gave the original sales order, number 3178, to the FBI on the evening of 11/22/63. This original sales order shows that Crescent Firearms sold C2766 to Klein's on June 18, 1962. And Klein's microfilm records showed the name and address of the person or persons who purchased C2766 from Kleins. But all of Feldsott's (Crescent Firearms) original records disappeared while in FBI custody. And all of Klein's original microfilm records disappeared while in FBI custody.

The FBI and Warren Commission ignored Louis Feldsott, ignored the original Crescent Firearms sales order #3178, ignored Feldsott's affidavit (below), and never provided any information as to the identity of the person or persons who purchased the rifle (C2766) that was sold to Klein's on June 18, 1962. Someone purchased C2766 from Klein's, but this person was not Oswald/Hidell.

The FBI needed needed to provide the Warren Commission with documents to show that C2766 was sold by Crescent Firearms to Klein's in early 1963, and was then re-sold to Oswald/Hidell. A Crescent Firearms invoice was fabricated (below) to show that 100 rifles (including C2766) were sold to Klein's on February 7, 1963. Note that #3178 (Crescent's original sales order of June 18, 1963) appears on the fabricated Crescent Firearms invoice. A Lifschultz Fast Freight shipping document (below) was then fabricated to show that C2766 was delivered to Klein's on February 21, 1963. Finally, a Klein's invoice was created in order to show that C2766 was sold to Oswald/Hidell on March 20, 1963.

The WC knew, from information provided by Louis Feldsott, that C2766 was sold to Klein's on June 18, 1962. The Warren Commission also knew that not a single document relating to C2766, provided by the FBI, was original--all documents were either paper copies or photographs. This "evidence" consisted of nothing more than paper copies and photographs of altered and fabricated records. The Commission's willingness to accept COPIES AND PHOTOGRAPHS OF DOCUMENTS, instead of insisting on original documents, shows their collusion with the FBI in a deliberate attempt to try and prove that Oswald purchased C2766 from Klein's. The deliberate mis-handling and mis-interpreting of these fabricated documents was obvious when WC Attorney David Belin questioned Klein's Vice President William Waldman. Belin, again and again, blatantly mis-lead and limited his questioning of Waldman in order to show that C2766 was sold to Oswald/Hidell.

The complete details of the FBI's handling, manipulation and fabrication of evidence, and the Warren Commission's handling and/or suppressing witness testimony, are far too numerous to include in this brief summary. But documentation and witness testimony published by the Warren Commission clearly shows there is not a single, conclusive piece of ORIGINAL evidence that proves Oswald ordered, purchased, or received a rifle. Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry was correct when he said, "We don't have any proof that Oswald fired the rifle. No one has been able to put him in that building with a gun in his hand."

--Above by John Armstrong, added today to:

http://harveyandlee.net/Guns/Guns.html

Edited August 16, 2016 by Jim Hargrove

[Tom Hume]

Hi Jim,

Sorry if this sounds like a stupid question, but I think I’ve missed an important detail: If Louis Feldsott turned over his records to the FBI showing that C-2766 was sold to Klein’s on June 18, 1962, why didn’t the FBI just go with that date, what would have been their motive for fabricating new records showing the sale took place in February of 1963? Couldn’t C-2766 been sitting in Klein’s inventory for a few months until Mr. X ordered it?

Tom

[Jim Hargrove]

That’s the $64k question, Tom. John and I have discussed this several times, and the easy part of the answer is that there was obviously something in that paperwork Hoover didn’t want on the record. Exactly what that detail was is another matter.

John thinks it may have had something to do with the timing of the advertising of various rifles and model specifics by Kleins, or perhaps with the Walker shooting, or even with Ruth Paine. He’d like to find the time to collect as many as possible of Kleins’ rifle ads from the era and try to figure out why Hoover couldn’t let the original sale records see the light of day. There is probably a relatively simple reason, but at the moment we don’t know what it is.

These phony documents are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to FBI fabrications, though, for the alleged murder rifle in particular and the case against “Lee Harvey Oswald” in general. The larger picture showing how the FBI invented more than a dozen pieces of fabricated evidence for the Magic Rifle alone can be seen here:

http://harveyandlee.net/Mail_Order_Rifle/Mail_Order_Rifle.html

And… as we should always note… that “evidence” shows that that the Magic Money Order allegedly used to pay for the Magic Rifle was never cashed nor deposited into a bank. See:

http://harveyandlee.net/MoneyOrder.html

[Sandy Larsen]

Jim,

I can sort of understand why original documents wouldn't have been used in the WC hearings. Because documents were pasted to poster board or something stiff like that, and that would have damaged originals. Besides it wasn't a trial, so it seems there would be no legal requirement.

So my question is this: Has John actually done anything to prove that the originals do not exist in the Archives?

I have one other question... I thought that there was an actual color money order. Either the money order itself, or a color photo it. Or am I thinking of a copy of the money order that somebody colorized?

I just checked and found this color money order: CLICK ME

Since there is only this one copy in color, I assume it's been colorized. But it looks so real, somebody had to have spent a lot of time colorizing it.

[David Von Pein]

But documentation and witness testimony published by the Warren Commission clearly shows there is not a single, conclusive piece of ORIGINAL evidence that proves Oswald ordered, purchased, or received a rifle.

The above statement is nothing but an outright falsehood. The Warren Commission and the FBI and the Treasury Department in 1964 and the HSCA's handwriting experts in 1978 examined the original money order, not just a copy or a photograph of the money order....

WC....

MELVIN EISENBERG -- "Mr. Cole, I now hand you an item consisting of a U.S. postal money order in the amount of $21.45, payable to Klein's Sporting Goods, from "A. Hidell, P.O. Box 2915, Dallas, Texas." For the record I will state that this money order was included with the purchase order in Exhibit 773 which has just been identified, and was intended and used as payment for the weapon shipped in response to the purchase order, 773. I ask you, Mr. Cole, whether you have examined this money order for the purpose of determining whether it was prepared by the author of the standards?"

ALWYN COLE -- "Yes, sir."

MR. EISENBERG -- "What was your conclusion, Mr. Cole?"

MR. COLE -- "It is my conclusion that the handwriting on this money order is in the hand of the person who executed the standard writing [i.e., Lee Harvey Oswald]."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HSCA....

MR. KLEIN -- "Did the panel reach a conclusion with respect to those documents?"

MR. McNALLY -- "They did."

MR. KLEIN -- "What was that conclusion?"

MR. McNALLY -- "That JFK exhibit F-504 and F-509 were written by the same person, again with the caveat. JFK exhibit F-504 is a photo reproduction of a microfilm."

MR. KLEIN -- "The document, which is marked F-509, the money order, is an original document; is it not?"

MR. McNALLY -- "It was; yes."

MR. KLEIN -- "And your conclusion is they were written by the same person who wrote the other documents?"

MR. McNALLY -- "That is right."

Edited August 16, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Jim Hargrove]

Jim,

I can sort of understand why original documents wouldn't have been used in the WC hearings. Because documents were pasted to poster board or something stiff like that, and that would have damaged originals. Besides it wasn't a trial, so it seems there would be no legal requirement.

So my question is this: Has John actually done anything to prove that the originals do not exist in the Archives?

Hi, Sandy. As opposed to most other researchers, John Armstrong spent weeks and months at the National Archives in Washington where he was allowed to examine and personally hold all the items of "evidence" supposedly in LHO's possession or handled by him. John had to wear little white evidence gloves while making the inspections, and compared, for example, Oswald's so-called "possessions" with the various inventory lists from the FBI and DPD. He reported that there were very few originals of any written documents in the entire collection. John believes that he was the last researcher given unrestricted right to handle Oswald's possessions.

Toward the end of John's many visits to the archives, they began restricting the number of items he could check each day.

I have one other question... I thought that there was an actual color money order. Either the money order itself, or a color photo it. Or am I thinking of a copy of the money order that somebody colorized?

I just checked and found this color money order: CLICK ME

Since there is only this one copy in color, I assume it's been colorized. But it looks so real, somebody had to have spent a lot of time colorizing it.

There are claims about inspecting the original money order, but the copy you have linked, I believe, was a mock-up of the so-called original created by, if memory serves, CBS.

[James DiEugenio]

DVP is back to his old tricks again.

How many times do we have to go through this?

There are no markings on the rear of the Money Order, to show it was passed through the FRS.

(It was kind of nice when he was gone.)

Edited August 16, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[David Von Pein]

How soon DiEugenio forgets. Or, to put it more accurately, How Soon DiEugenio TOTALLY IGNORES The Proof That The Money Order Is Genuine....

Click Here....

Edited August 16, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Jim Hargrove]

Greetings, David Von Pein,

You provide some lovely quotes, but obviously these handwriting experts are willing to say just about anything…. or they were talking about a different original Magic Money Order. Because the Magic Money Order originally obtained by the FBI was for $12.78, not for the amount Hoover eventually decided “LHO” paid for the Magic Rifle. Newspapers all across the United States reported this.

Do you have an image of that truly original $12.78 money order? Even a black and white copy will do.

[Sandy Larsen]

David,

Do you have any documents showing Oswald's handwriting? Like a letter? I'd like to do my own handwriting comparison.

I've compared only the letters in his signatures on the back of checks he deposited. It was hard to find a match because his handwriting is so variable. Amazingly so.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Sandy Larsen

[David Von Pein]

David,

Do you have any documents showing Oswalds handwriting? Like a letter? I'd like to do my own handwriting comparison.

I've compared only the letters in his signatures on the back of checks he deposited. It was hard to find a match because his handwriting is so variable. Amazingly so.

Just search through WC Volume 16, Sandy. There are tons of samples of Oswald's writing here:

http://history-matters.com/archive/contents/wc/contents_wh16.htm

Edited August 17, 2016 by David Von Pein

[David Von Pein]

You provide some lovely quotes, but obviously these handwriting experts are willing to say just about anything….

And that goes for Cole in 1964 and then McNally in 1978, right?

Do you think McNally decided, on his own, to continue the alleged "cover-up" concerning the money order 14 years later?

Hilarious.

....or they were talking about a different original Magic Money Order. Because the Magic Money Order originally obtained by the FBI was for $12.78, not for the amount Hoover eventually decided “LHO” paid for the Magic Rifle. Newspapers all across the United States reported this.

If you and John Armstrong can't figure out the answer to that "$12.78" thing, then I feel sorry for both of you.

And we've been through this before (in one of the many "Money Order" threads on this forum).

Excerpt....

JIM HARGROVE SAID:

Warren Commission loyalists want us to believe that this uncashed, unendorsed money order is legitimate proof of purchase by “A. Hidell” of a rifle that was shipped to Hidell via a Dallas P.O. Box under the name of “Oswald,” contrary to U.S. postal regulations, for a price of… well… first it was $12.78 for a rifle without a scope as pointed out by dozens of American dailies for nearly a week after the assassination.

As one example of many, a Nov. 23 article by the New York Times wire service, picked up in daily newspapers in many cities, including the Nov. 24 Salt Lake Tribune, reported the following: “Handwriting, analyzed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Washington as Oswald's on an assumed-name order to a Chicago mail order house last March 20 for a $12.78 rifle, similar to the assassination weapon.”

When the saga of Dial Ryder and the scope didn't pan out, the FBI apparently lost all its reports of a $12.78 rifle without a scope. But, like magic, "Oswald's handwriting" suddenly appeared on a new and improved money order, this time for $21.45 for a rifle with a scope.

A magic money order to purchase a magic rifle that shot magic bullets. It was truly an age of miracles!

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Jim,

There's no "magic" or "miracles" of any kind involved here at all. And there's no sinister or underhanded cover-up involved either. The reason why the media was reporting the $12.78 cost for the rifle (sans the scope) was quite simple --- they were simply referring to the Klein's ads that were currently running in various magazines in November of 1963. Between the time Oswald ordered his rifle in March '63 and the time of the assassination eight months later, the price of the Italian carbine (without the scope attached) in the Klein's advertisements had decreased by 10 cents, from $12.88 to $12.78.

And it's highly unlikely that any of the people in the press still had ready access to any Klein's magazine ads from eight or nine months earlier. So they were merely reporting on the CURRENT price of the gun in their TV and newspaper reports, without bothering to factor in the proper "With Scope" price. Big deal.

And even Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry told reporters on 11/23/63:

"I believe the gun was supposed to cost twelve dollars and seventy-eight cents, I believe. I believe it was advertised in some magazine for that."

As for any "new and improved money order, this time for $21.45 for a rifle with a scope" --- that's a lot of baloney too, because as early as 11/23/63, we find documentation showing that a money order that was definitely handled by Klein's Sporting Goods AND the First National Bank of Chicago in the amount of $21.45 was recovered at the Federal Records Center in Alexandria, Virginia, on the night of November 23rd, the day after the assassination. This documentation is all laid out in a goodly amount of detail in Commission Document #75 and Commission Document #87.

So, Jim Hargrove, do you think that the FBI and Secret Service reports that appear in CD75 and CD87 are phony documents of some kind? And do you think that a money order in the amount of $21.45 was NOT actually found at the Records Center in Alexandria at all?

Edited August 17, 2016 by David Von Pein

[Michael Walton]

David,

I think it's important to take a step back and look at ALL of the evidence. Yes, we can argue the handwriting, the printings, and so forth on the MO. But the real clincher for me is that how in the world was Oswald supposed to have walked miles away from his employer's office (JCS) to mail this thing when his time card shows all of his time was accounted for down to the minute?

That has to be factored in, in addition to the scope being out of alignment, a bent lip on one of the shells in the so-called sniper's nest, two wallets supposedly belonging to him and one obviously a throw down at the Tippit scene (Oswald would have had to have been the dumbest criminal of all time to have let that happen), Oswald's clear lack of motive for doing what he was accused of, the fake backyard photos (he even knew and understood the process when shown the photos in jail), his "I'm nothing but a patsy" quote just as he's pulled away from reporters, his "deer in the headlights" look during the midnight news conference, and so on.

And just because the government said something about his guilt doesn't make it correct. Look how the Zapruder film was supressed until 1975 - where they couldn't falsify or twist things around to suit their case, they simply swept it under the rug away from the eyes of the public.

http://www.ctka.net/2015/JosephsRiflePart1.pdf

[James DiEugenio]

Wow.

Von Pein's web site is getting as bad as McAdams' junkyard.

We went through this for hours on end. There were wonderful contributions from a lot of different people.

We produced new testimony from two bank branch supervisors, new documentation. Sandy Larsen and David Josephs contributed valuable documents in this regard.

But DVP is telling people that the completely unmarked money order is genuine? See, that is something John McAdams would do. Because for him the evidence doesn't matter.

Mike, don't waste your time on that mailbox matter.

DVP found this postal worker, I think his name is Orr. A real WC zealot, says none of that matters. And you can get a money order from Dallas, picked up at a mailbox, delivered to the central office, hauled to the airport, shipped over 700 miles, dropped off at central office, shipped to local office, delivered to Klein's, sorted out there, walked over to the bank, and sorted and deposited there--all in less than 24 hours. No problem.

Although how this guy knew the sorting operation at Klein's in 1963, and how often they made deposits, was left unasked, and therefore unanswered. DVP didn't care. Somebody said it would work, so he prints it on his web site.

That is why Davey is who he is.

Edited August 17, 2016 by James DiEugenio

[David Von Pein]

David,

I think it's important to take a step back and look at ALL of the evidence. Yes, we can argue the handwriting, the printings, and so forth on the MO. But the real clincher for me is that how in the world was Oswald supposed to have walked miles away from his employer's office (JCS) to mail this thing when his time card shows all of his time was accounted for down to the minute?

That has to be factored in, in addition to the scope being out of alignment, a bent lip on one of the shells in the so-called sniper's nest, two wallets supposedly belonging to him and one obviously a throw down at the Tippit scene (Oswald would have had to have been the dumbest criminal of all time to have let that happen), Oswald's clear lack of motive for doing what he was accused of, the fake backyard photos (he even knew and understood the process when shown the photos in jail), his "I'm nothing but a patsy" quote just as he's pulled away from reporters, his "deer in the headlights" look during the midnight news conference, and so on.

jfk-archives/LHO Getting To The Post Office

jfk-archives/The Misaligned Rifle Scope

jfk-archives/Isolating Evidence, Including The "Dented Lip"

jfk-archives/Wallets (Part 1)

jfk-archives/Oswald's Motive

jfk-archives/The Backyard Photos

jfk-archives/Oswald's "Patsy" Lie

jfk-archives/"Deer In The Headlights"

Edited August 17, 2016 by David Von Pein