Judyth Baker writes about Wim Dankbaar's film

[Douglas Caddy]

Judyth Baker posted the following information on Facebook today:

FILMED YEARS AGO: only a few words need correcting in this long and informative film by former Dutch intelligence officer Wim Dankbaar (such as Ed Haslam saying Lee and I left Reily the same day...they actually put an ad for me to leave the same day Lee was fired there... also, in this film I say Lee was going to meet "Bishop" David Atlee Phillips--in Mexico City, and I've never said anything different, but the Product itself was supposed to be handed over to a medical contact from Cuba... Phillips was supposed to have been present or would soon meet Lee at the time of the handoff or right afterwards......instead, Phillips had exited Mexico City days earlier by plane, leaving Lee to dry out in the wind when the medical contact didn't show. Lee was in the terrible position of not knowing what to do next. He knew that if we could eliminate Castro, the focus on killing JFK would turn to taking over Cuba.

I now understand that abandoning Lee to "act on his own" is just what was intended--so Lee would make some moves that would leave him open to suspicion and make him seem like he was working for Castro, as he did try to enter Cuba himself, even though he knew he'd almost certainly be turned down because he was opting for a transit visa--to go through Cuba on the way to Russia--for you do NOT want to stay in the country where you're trying to deliver material that is designed to kill the leader of that country!

This is the real reason Lee applied for a transit visa at the Cuban Consulate in Mexico City. If it had been his original reason for going to Mexico City, he would have been prepared for such an attempt. But he wasn't. We can prove that, because Lee didn't have any passport photos with him. An experienced traveler, he knew, of course, that to get a visa from the USSR or a transit visa to go through Cuba on the way to the USSR, he'd have to affix his photos to the applications.

But Lee was not prepared to make an application for a Cuban transit visa, which is why it's on record that he went to a photo store and had passport photos made for the transit visa's application form. This helps prove Lee was unprepared --not stupid, as the Warren Commission tried to make it seem-- for this attempt. t also proves that Lee was willing to risk his life to try to complete his assignment.

These activities at the Cuban Consulate, and possibly at the Russian Embassy, exposed Lee, whose presence, otherwise, would not even have been noticed in Mexico City --which is just what the CIA wanted.

This film states much of what you can later see in THE LOVE AFFAIR. That documentary was filmed for the History Channel. Many small details, of course, were edited out of both versions. This film features James Files, convincingly, I might add, though I retain some reservations due to some remarks Files has made that don't match what I know.

However, the right 'bad guys' are against Files. Here is an example: the cartridge shown with its 'dash' on the end was supposedly debunked. BUT WAS IT REALLY? The debunker got his 'evidence' from an anonymous person who 'found' his 'evidence' (WHICH THE DEBUNKER RELEASED IN THE FORM OF AN UNNECESSARILY POOR COPY OF THE CARTRIDGE'S DESIGN SHEET, WHEN HE HAD RESOURCES TO MAKE A CLEAR COPY)...The poorly copied design sheet shows dates when the cartridge designs were changed -- including a dot where the dash was on the end-- but this poor copy nevertheless contains marks of alteration marks of alteration (!) that even very poor copying couldn't totally hide. The debunker got his piece of 'evidence' from an anonymous person who found it, he said, in a Remington trash bin --conveniently soon after the Remington expert retired there, who had held the opinion that the cartridge was made before 1971. Similarly, we must wonder why James Files has been ignored by the US government concerning his claims, with 'evidence' against him appropriately just as suspicious and subjective. Whatever your opinion on Files, this film gives Files his day in court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjMJOdMXqdg

[Andrej Stancak]

Not being a medical doctor but being knowledgeable in medical physiology, the possibility of killing Mr. Castro by injecting some cancer cells cultured in mice appears to be a nonsense. The story, as I understand it, is that Mr. Castro's immunity would have to be weakened with initial X-ray doses else his immune system would immediately destroy the foreign cells. However, how would anyone explain to healthy Mr. Castro that he needs to take each day for a period of few weeks a hefty dose of X-rays to abolish his own immune system. For illustration: immunosuppression in leukemia patients receiving bone marrow grafts would require an X ray dose of 3400 rad with 200 rad per day. However, even people with high school education knew at that time that radiation in larger doses was harmful. The condition of transportation of cancer cells in a canister or a jar for days in hot weather conditions appears just as fantastic as burning out Mr. Castro's immune system with X rays. If living cells were to survive a lengthy transport they would need to be cooled to a low temperature (such as ovum or a sperm cell if it needs to be used for fertilisation in future). If not frozen, a living cell would survive and/or not alter their properties only if the medium is constantly monitored for pH (acidity), temperature and several other biochemical parameters. The idea of Lee transporting living cancer cells in an ordinary bag which he and Marina might have used for their grocery shoppings is just ridiculous.

I cannot see how Mr. Castro's medical doctors (I assume he has more than one) would consent to a crime of slowly killing their patient. It is against humanity and against their promise to obey Hippocrate's oath not to harm their patients in the first instance. In the unlikely case that Mr. Castro's doctors were acting on behalf of CIA, there would be plenty opportunities to poison Castro at any time without this monstrous plan.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Andrej Stancak

[Michael Walton]

Judyth Baker is a fraud it's as simple as that. Anyone who believes her fantastical stories might as well believe that Neil and Buzz were on a movie lot on 7/20/69 with cans of Tab at the ready for breaks during the shooting.

[David Andrews]

Not being a medical doctor but being knowledgeable in medical physiology, the possibility of killing Mr. Castro by injecting some cancer cells cultured in mice appears to be a nonsense. The story, as I understand it, is that Mr. Castro's immunity would have to be weakened with initial X-ray doses else his immune system would immediately destroy the foreign cells. However, how would anyone explain to healthy Mr. Castro that he needs to take each day for a period of few weeks a hefty dose of X-rays to abolish his own immune system. For illustration: immunosuppression in leukemia patients receiving bone marrow grafts would require an X ray dose of 3400 rad with 200 rad per day. However, even people with high school education knew at that time that radiation in larger doses was harmful. The condition of transportation of cancer cells in a canister or a jar for days in hot weather conditions appears just as fantastic as burning out Mr. Castro's immune system with X rays. If living cells were to survive a lengthy transport they would need to be cooled to a low temperature (such as ovum or a sperm cell if it needs to be used for fertilisation in future). If not frozen, a living cell would survive and/or not alter their properties only if the medium is constantly monitored for pH (acidity), temperature and several other biochemical parameters. The idea of Lee transporting living cancer cells in an ordinary bag which he and Marina might have used for their grocery shoppings is just ridiculous.

I cannot see how Mr. Castro's medical doctors (I assume he has more than one) would consent to a crime of slowly killing their patient. It is against humanity and against their promise to obey Hippocrate's oath not to harm their patients in the first instance. In the unlikely case that Mr. Castro's doctors were acting on behalf of CIA, there would be plenty opportunities to poison Castro at any time without this monstrous plan.

Without contradicting you in the least, this doesn't preclude development of a private medico-espionage industry devoted to the legend of assassination through cancer cell tramsmission.

[Chris Newton]

...this doesn't preclude development of a private medico-espionage industry devoted to the legend of assassination through cancer cell tramsmission.

Agree.

The wet suit. The Creme. Spiders on LSD.

The box of cigars contaminated with this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2856357/

What else was weaponized, I wonder?

[Chris Newton]

Andrej,

Take a look at the CIA's own "Report on Plots to Assassinate Fidel Castro"

I found it very revealing not just because of the astounding events described therein but because what it revealed about an operation of "extreme sensitivity" as described in it's first paragraph. The CIA's modus oporandi concerning record keeping of an "extreme sensitivity" event.

It's a report written by the CIA Inspector General for the CIA Director "eyes only". The very first page describes how the only copy is destroyed along with all the notes of the four authors who wrote the report and how the original was to be segregated after having been read by the Director and then returned to the I.G.

Then it get's real.

In the first sentence of the report:

"...because of the extreme sensitivity of the operations being discussed or attempted, as a matter of principal no official records were kept of planning, of approvals, or of implementation."

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=27485#relPageId=3&tab=page

[Andrej Stancak]

Not being a medical doctor but being knowledgeable in medical physiology, the possibility of killing Mr. Castro by injecting some cancer cells cultured in mice appears to be a nonsense. The story, as I understand it, is that Mr. Castro's immunity would have to be weakened with initial X-ray doses else his immune system would immediately destroy the foreign cells. However, how would anyone explain to healthy Mr. Castro that he needs to take each day for a period of few weeks a hefty dose of X-rays to abolish his own immune system. For illustration: immunosuppression in leukemia patients receiving bone marrow grafts would require an X ray dose of 3400 rad with 200 rad per day. However, even people with high school education knew at that time that radiation in larger doses was harmful. The condition of transportation of cancer cells in a canister or a jar for days in hot weather conditions appears just as fantastic as burning out Mr. Castro's immune system with X rays. If living cells were to survive a lengthy transport they would need to be cooled to a low temperature (such as ovum or a sperm cell if it needs to be used for fertilisation in future). If not frozen, a living cell would survive and/or not alter their properties only if the medium is constantly monitored for pH (acidity), temperature and several other biochemical parameters. The idea of Lee transporting living cancer cells in an ordinary bag which he and Marina might have used for their grocery shoppings is just ridiculous.

I cannot see how Mr. Castro's medical doctors (I assume he has more than one) would consent to a crime of slowly killing their patient. It is against humanity and against their promise to obey Hippocrate's oath not to harm their patients in the first instance. In the unlikely case that Mr. Castro's doctors were acting on behalf of CIA, there would be plenty opportunities to poison Castro at any time without this monstrous plan.

Without contradicting you in the least, this doesn't preclude development of a private medico-espionage industry devoted to the legend of assassination through cancer cell tramsmission.

David:

I agree that there were (and maybe still are?) devilish plans of intelligence agencies over the world to use biological vehicles to kill someone.

[Andrej Stancak]

Andrej,

Take a look at the CIA's own "Report on Plots to Assassinate Fidel Castro"

I found it very revealing not just because of the astounding events described therein but because what it revealed about an operation of "extreme sensitivity" as described in it's first paragraph. The CIA's modus oporandi concerning record keeping of an "extreme sensitivity" event.

It's a report written by the CIA Inspector General for the CIA Director "eyes only". The very first page describes how the only copy is destroyed along with all the notes of the four authors who wrote the report and how the original was to be segregated after having been read by the Director and then returned to the I.G.

Then it get's real.

In the first sentence of the report:

"...because of the extreme sensitivity of the operations being discussed or attempted, as a matter of principal no official records were kept of planning, of approvals, or of implementation."

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=27485#relPageId=3&tab=page

Chris:

Would you think we will see any of these materials released next year?

[Chris Newton]

Would you think we will see any of these materials released next year?

It's released. 145 pages. it's there on the link I provided. Pretty much all of it. Some redactions.

Edited September 9, 2016 by Chris Newton

[David Andrews]

Not being a medical doctor but being knowledgeable in medical physiology, the possibility of killing Mr. Castro by injecting some cancer cells cultured in mice appears to be a nonsense. The story, as I understand it, is that Mr. Castro's immunity would have to be weakened with initial X-ray doses else his immune system would immediately destroy the foreign cells. However, how would anyone explain to healthy Mr. Castro that he needs to take each day for a period of few weeks a hefty dose of X-rays to abolish his own immune system. For illustration: immunosuppression in leukemia patients receiving bone marrow grafts would require an X ray dose of 3400 rad with 200 rad per day. However, even people with high school education knew at that time that radiation in larger doses was harmful. The condition of transportation of cancer cells in a canister or a jar for days in hot weather conditions appears just as fantastic as burning out Mr. Castro's immune system with X rays. If living cells were to survive a lengthy transport they would need to be cooled to a low temperature (such as ovum or a sperm cell if it needs to be used for fertilisation in future). If not frozen, a living cell would survive and/or not alter their properties only if the medium is constantly monitored for pH (acidity), temperature and several other biochemical parameters. The idea of Lee transporting living cancer cells in an ordinary bag which he and Marina might have used for their grocery shoppings is just ridiculous.

I cannot see how Mr. Castro's medical doctors (I assume he has more than one) would consent to a crime of slowly killing their patient. It is against humanity and against their promise to obey Hippocrate's oath not to harm their patients in the first instance. In the unlikely case that Mr. Castro's doctors were acting on behalf of CIA, there would be plenty opportunities to poison Castro at any time without this monstrous plan.

Without contradicting you in the least, this doesn't preclude development of a private medico-espionage industry devoted to the legend of assassination through cancer cell tramsmission.

David:

I agree that there were (and maybe still are?) devilish plans of intelligence agencies over the world to use biological vehicles to kill someone.

Andrej, Chris: In the case of the Castro-kill industry of the 1960s, I meant the legend (as in con-job) of assassination through cancer cell transmission. Imagine a part-privatized medical assassination cabal - offshoot of the military industrial complex and ancestor of today's privatized warfare - that sucked in uncountable dollars from the fathomless black budget, for facility and personnel subsidization, R & D, and some field trials on humans, all based on the spurious concept of injecting political targets with live cancer cells and killing them. A spurious concept sworn to by a cabal of doctors and researchers. It's not far-fetched when measured by later espionage and biowarfare developments.

I don't mean to beat this to death, but I had limited time to write my original post and want to be clear. This was the light bulb that went off over my head when I opened this thread this morning. I can't convince myself that such chicanery would have been beyond the pale for the cold war era.

[Chris Newton]

David,

I'm with you on that.

I'm also aware of the Genetics/"Scary Nazi Twin" stuff being researched by people like Werner Kloepfer (who's in LHO's address book). There had been speculation that this research had been picked up and explored by the Israelis, of all people. A DNA weapon of some sort.

[Andrej Stancak]

Would you think we will see any of these materials released next year?

It's released. 145 pages. it's there on the link I provided. Pretty much all of it. Some redactions.

Thanks, Chris, for pointing me again to the document which I did not know would exist.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Andrej Stancak

[Michael Walton]

So this thread is about the fraud Judy Baker and no one yet mentions her here but instead goes off on tangents. Can someone here at least comment on Judy Baker being the fraud that she is?

[Andrej Stancak]

Not being a medical doctor but being knowledgeable in medical physiology, the possibility of killing Mr. Castro by injecting some cancer cells cultured in mice appears to be a nonsense. The story, as I understand it, is that Mr. Castro's immunity would have to be weakened with initial X-ray doses else his immune system would immediately destroy the foreign cells. However, how would anyone explain to healthy Mr. Castro that he needs to take each day for a period of few weeks a hefty dose of X-rays to abolish his own immune system. For illustration: immunosuppression in leukemia patients receiving bone marrow grafts would require an X ray dose of 3400 rad with 200 rad per day. However, even people with high school education knew at that time that radiation in larger doses was harmful. The condition of transportation of cancer cells in a canister or a jar for days in hot weather conditions appears just as fantastic as burning out Mr. Castro's immune system with X rays. If living cells were to survive a lengthy transport they would need to be cooled to a low temperature (such as ovum or a sperm cell if it needs to be used for fertilisation in future). If not frozen, a living cell would survive and/or not alter their properties only if the medium is constantly monitored for pH (acidity), temperature and several other biochemical parameters. The idea of Lee transporting living cancer cells in an ordinary bag which he and Marina might have used for their grocery shoppings is just ridiculous.

I cannot see how Mr. Castro's medical doctors (I assume he has more than one) would consent to a crime of slowly killing their patient. It is against humanity and against their promise to obey Hippocrate's oath not to harm their patients in the first instance. In the unlikely case that Mr. Castro's doctors were acting on behalf of CIA, there would be plenty opportunities to poison Castro at any time without this monstrous plan.

Without contradicting you in the least, this doesn't preclude development of a private medico-espionage industry devoted to the legend of assassination through cancer cell tramsmission.

David:

I agree that there were (and maybe still are?) devilish plans of intelligence agencies over the world to use biological vehicles to kill someone.

Andrej, Chris: In the case of the Castro-kill industry of the 1960s, I meant the legend (as in con-job) of assassination through cancer cell transmission. Imagine a part-privatized medical assassination cabal - offshoot of the military industrial complex and ancestor of today's privatized warfare - that sucked in uncountable dollars from the fathomless black budget, for facility and personnel subsidization, R & D, and some field trials on humans, all based on the spurious concept of injecting political targets with live cancer cells and killing them. A spurious concept sworn to by a cabal of doctors and researchers. It's not far-fetched when measured by later espionage and biowarfare developments.

I don't mean to beat this to death, but I had limited time to write my original post and want to be clear. This was the light bulb that went off over my head when I opened this thread this morning. I can't convince myself that such chicanery would have been beyond the pale for the cold war era.

David: I agree with your description of how powerful forces in society, mostly private business and intelligence agencies, collaborated to develop secret weapons to kill their enemies. The case of the Russian journalist Litvinenko who was killed by a radiation capsule or drink by KGB can serve as an example.

The problem is whether cancer cells can be used as a "bioweapon" as decsribed in the novel Me and Lee, or in general. Maybe a word by an oncologist would be more suitable than an opinion of an experimental neurophysiologist. Cancer is not contagious. If we care of someone suffering from lung cancer, we do not get infected with his/her cancer. Cancer cells, if injected into someone else's body, would be attacked by his/her own immune system and rapidly destroyed. The reason is that every cell in our body has a genetically unique marker (called major histocompatibility complex) which differs from a marker of a non-human species such as mouse, but also from markers in cells of other humans. The risk of being "infected" with cancer would be if for instance I am donated an organ of a person who has/had cancer. However, even here the likelihood of really developing cancer is very small (some 2 in 10000 transplants). Thus, cancer is a very serious desease which we fear and consider it to be a real evil. However, cancer as a bioweapon is just one of the least likely possibilities to kill a political enemy.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Andrej Stancak

[Andrej Stancak]

So this thread is about the fraud Judy Baker and no one yet mentions her here but instead goes off on tangents. Can someone here at least comment on Judy Baker being the fraud that she is?

Michael:

people deserve respect even if they believe in something which may not be true. We have the right to discuss whether aspects of a published story are valid or not. I see no reason to write anything derogatory about the author, and wish Mrs. Baker well.