Chris Newton Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said: As a complete guess, I’d speculate it was something strongly suggesting Marina had Soviet intel ties, something that needed to be suppressed to kill the Cuba/USSR connection to the assassination that Phillips and others had worked so hard to establish, and that some people are STILL TRYING TO PUSH TODAY! Additionally, there is the connection to the Paines. People tend to forget that in 1963 written communication was almost strictly snail mail and telegram. It's pretty clear there was an FBI mail intercept going on post assassination and that's why this event caused so much consternation. What was the volume of mail like that was sent to Marina and Ruth after their exposure on TV post assassination? I would guess it was incredible. I wonder if Neunson also had a connection to the Paines or the Society of Friends? When I first learned of Marina's association with Webster, the red flags were raised (excuse the pun), now we have Edward Neunson and his "New Jerseyite" Dad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 The Paine connection is fascinating. IN the first edition of Destiny Betrayed, I included an FBI/ONI reference to the Paines and the Society of Friends extending into Russia. Maybe it was based on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 James, A few years back I established a connection between the Society of Friends, Dallas Chapter and the New Orleans Chapter. The Dallas Chapter has an annual award given in the name of H. Warner Kloepfer. The Dallas Chapter's website even had the news releases of that year's winner. In the FBI 302's Kloepfer's wife is identified as the Secretary of the New Orleans Society of Friends Chapter. It doesn't note that Warner, himself, was also the Secretary of the New Orleans chapter for many years. The other funny thing was, I had found a newspaper article about the Kloepfers and I noted that his wife's father was a Methodist Minister with a congregation. I doubt very much Kloepfer's wife was a Quaker and therefore I think the FBI 302 is probably wrong. Where does that leave the Paine story of how she met Lee Harvey Oswald? It might also explain Kloepfers entry in Oswald's address book. I've long suspected an East-Coast-Elite/Society-of-Friends/USIA/USIS/Intelligence connection. It would seem to be a perfect exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) Posted 1/30/11 on this forum by Robert Howard: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/15405-frank-olsons-murder/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Walter Carl Neuson, aka Walter Carl Neunson. I chanced upon his name while working on an index of Warren Commission documents, in this case CD 1516 http://www.maryferre...911&relPageId=4 As you can see the Warren Commission Document title spells his name Neuson, but when you read the actual document, it is spelled Neunson; obviously that in itself, doesen't have significance, but it does if there is an underlying area that is being muted. Adding to the strange atmosphere of all of this is the fact that an HSCA Administrative File has the following passage ADMIN FOLDER-X6: HSCA ADMINISTRATIVE FOLDER, CIA REPORTS LHO pg 49 Found in: FBI - HSCA Administrative Folders NOTE Classified "Secret as this refers-to-Project Hunter which is so classified by CIA Neunson an SI subject of Newark told Ruth Paine some time after the assassination that his son Edward met RIF#: 124-10369-10063 (10/19/67) FBI#: 62-117290-ADMIN FOLDER-X6 http://www.maryferre...17&relPageId=49 The mary ferrell database has this entry NEUNSON, WALTER CARL Sources: CD 1516; CD 1546, pp. 220-249 Mary's Comments: He wrote letter to Ruth Paine 11/28/63 offering Marina Oswald a home in New Jersey; claimed his son, Edward, had met Marina; Marina remembered young man named Edward in Leningrad November 7 or 8, 1960. I will forewarn anyone who has the inclination to dig into this obscurity, that the subject matter encompasses a wide swath of names and places, and there is the obvious reminder of a slip-up Marina made when she was interviewed at one time regarding her husband when she got a little confused and started reciting the history of Robert Edward Webster and the Rand Corporation, instead of Lee Harvey Oswald, who, as far as the historical record goes had never had one iota of association with the RAND corporation, at least not in official documents I am aware of. But don't take my word for any of the latter, you can read it for yourself courtesy of John Armstrong. See Harvey and Lee pages 256-259 there you will find all sorts of interesting Marina tales, these I personally are part of the real Marina Oswald account of what was really going on in Mother Russia, that the Warren Commission, and the HSCA for that matter, was not too excited about jumping into. more Marina and Ambassador to Afghanistan Christopher Bird -RAND Corporation Robert Edward Webster See http://www.maryferre....do?docId=16791 There are a myriad of documents [62 actually] at NARA under the subject HUNTER REPORT http://www.nara.gov/cgi-bin/starfinder/1609/jfksnew.txt when searching NARA under "PROJECT HUNTER" there is only one hit Posted 1/30/11 on this forum by Robert Howard:104-10438-10067 MEMO:PROJECT HUNTER REPORT #142 http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=8261 ......references Boris Waldemar Karapitnitzsky with aliases with the subject line reading ERROR -- COULD NOT LOCATE SUBJECT TERM! It would not be out of the question to wonder if ALL of the headings under Hunter Report originally read "PROJECT HUNTER" It would be very helpful to getting to a clearer picture of what was really going on "Back in The U.S.S.R," is convincing Messr. Armstrong to publish an "English" interview of the Zieger's that was conducted by Ignacio Zuleta circa 1995.... And I say that with all due respect for John......Posted 1/30/11 on this forum by Robert Howard: The time for erasing the speedbumps has arrived. So far, I've had even less luck than Mr. Howard in finding out much about Project Hunter, but it MAY be the Hunter referenced in the FBI report(s) on Neunson, and I'd sure like to know what it was. Edited December 8, 2016 by Jim Hargrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 HTLINGUAL CI Memo re: Neunson, Oswald, etc. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=30057#relPageId=3&tab=page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 That is quite a list for HT LINGUAL. Karapatnitsky as I recall, turned out to be kind of interesting. The question is, was the the guy in hospital with Oswald? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said: ...searching NARA under "PROJECT HUNTER" there is only one hit I've found several entries for the "Hunter Project" on MF. It looks like a sub-project to HTLINGUAL under JJA when he was DDP. See the third Index Card down on this page: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=22859&relPageId=37 Edited December 9, 2016 by Chris Newton damn grammar nazis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) Chris, Angleton was not ever DDP I don't think. BTW, It may be that Greg parker's new book will elucidate this whole thing about the Neunson connection. Why would he be living in Russia in the first place? Edited December 9, 2016 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) Jim, Thanks. I knew that and had a brain f@rt - (blaming Trejo) I had seen this and now I realize there may be a redaction that makes it look like JJA is signing as DDP (or he's simply signing "for' the DDP): https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=42891#relPageId=2&tab=page (...and that's a Hunter Report too) Edited December 9, 2016 by Chris Newton added commentary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Chris Newton said: Jim, Thanks. I knew that and had a brain f@rt - (blaming Trejo) I had seen this and now I realize there may be a redaction that makes it look like JJA is signing as DDP (or he's simply signing "for' the DDP): https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=42891#relPageId=2&tab=page (...and that's a Hunter Report too) The doc linked above has the subject line: Hunter Report # 10816; the previous doc referenced Hunter Project. Assume they are related, eh? Here's a reference to: Project Hunter Report #142: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=8261 The more I think about this, the more likely it seems to me that the FBI and the Agency's... uh... problem with the Neunsons may have had more to do with the Paines than with Marina. For a multitude of reasons, both organizations would want to hide their potential intel affiliations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 11 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said: The doc linked above has the subject line: Hunter Report # 10816; the previous doc referenced Hunter Project. Assume they are related, eh? Hey Jim, I think they are related. I examined 670+ hits on MF for the search terms "HUNTER and REPORT" Here's what I came up with so far: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10062e#relPageId=123&tab=page Hunter Report # Date sender subject 1529 28 AUG 59 Neunson 2833 06 JUL 60 JJA ltr dated 22 Jun 60 4019 28 MAR 61 Greendlinger 8691 Greendlinger 9688 13 JUN 63 Greendlinger 10815 26 NOV 63 JJA Marina O 10816 26 NOV 63 JJA Ruby 11572 03 APR 64 JJA Goldin 11864 20 APR 64 JJA translation of ltr dated 22 AUG 58 25323 (Jan 1971?) FBI Greendlinger Project Hunter Report 142 14 SEP 64 re HR #11572 data 3 APR 64 Solomon Goldin 308 23 SEP 64 Marina O. 428 24 SEP 64 Neunson add’l microfilm hunter files Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 Chris, Geez, probably a small sampling, but it looks as if Angleton was all over this “Hunter” business. Assuming it was related to mail intercepts (and even if it wasn’t), we can make some pretty informed speculation. . . . Citing CIA file # OS-351-164, JA says Angleton was involved with both the Office of Security AND the Counterintellegence section, the two Agency departments that had kept the files on Lee HENRY Oswald since 1960. JA goes on to write, “Following David Atlee Phillips' visit to Washington, DC during the first week of October, 1963, reports on Oswald were-routed to staff D in Miami, which meant that only Angleton’s group and David Phillips received the reports.” (H&L, p. 975) If Angleton DID have photo(s) of Hoover and Tolson dancing in the tulips, he was in a position to have near total control of Federal coverage of “Lee Harvey Oswald” in the weeks prior to the assassination. Funny how trusting these two organizations became that “Oswald” had been rehabilitated at this very time. Newman called this “turning down the lights” on “Oswald.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Jim, I agree. We can also speculate that the Hunter Reports started as early as 1958 (per #11864) and they were given consecutive report numbers. The reports numbers we have start at #1529 in 1959 and span up to #25323 in 1971. Has anyone looked hard at HTLINGUAL to see if they were "opening everything" for 15 or more years (in and out of the Soviet Bloc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) For better or worse, Federal agencies are nothing if not thorough, and I wouldn’t be surprised if just about everything covered by HTLINGUAL was opened. Some of the docs seem to indicate a number of different agencies involved in the collection, hardly surprising, but if the individual letters opened resulted in the production of some 24,000 reports over a mere dozen years or so, considering the ones that didn't warrant a report there most have been A WHOLE LOT of intercepts! MFF database has 128 pages of “HTLINGUAL Items Relating to the OSWALD Case” starting here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=55319#relPageId=1&tab=page It all starts out featuring the Neunsons. When time permits, I’m going to try and slog through more of this stuff. Edited December 10, 2016 by Jim Hargrove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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